Woman charged with felony for having a stillbirth

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

This is why we can’t have a reasonable discussion. You still can’t answer my question.

You’re not arguing in good faith. You suggested there was another option to treat her miscarriage as if it were a reasonable option. Which option would that be? And why do you think it is reasonable? And what is forcing doctors to offer one option but not the safer option?

You can’t be serious. You accused me of something (a 100% false accusation, to be clear), can’t back it up, and are now saying I’M not the one not arguing in good faith? Do you even hear yourself?!?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

I myself am a medical professional. I have to follow the law, as unfortunate as it sometimes is. And patients have to follow the law, too.

Which is why we are discussing how terrible the law is that put medical professionals and this patient in such a terrible situation. And which is why she should not be prosecuted when the law itself is rotten to the core.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

I myself am a medical professional. I have to follow the law, as unfortunate as it sometimes is. And patients have to follow the law, too.

We know that Catholic hospitals frequently impose limits on reproductive care beyond that required by law. And it was the Ohio hospital (made up of medical professionals) that failed to have an efficient process to approve the abortion. You have unclean hands if you participate in this. Maybe the doctor should transferred her to a hospital just over the border in Pennsylvania to get the care she needed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

I wasn't there. I don't know whether, at that point, she was coherent, or under anaesthesia for the D & C, or what her situation was. So, it's impossible for me to say whether I would have talked to her.

If her demeanor was altered enough in the hair salon from the blood loss, that it was alarming enough that the hair dresser called her mom, and her mom traveled to her, and then took her to the hospital, and she continued to lose blood all that time, she may have been in very bad shape.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

This is why we can’t have a reasonable discussion. You still can’t answer my question.

You’re not arguing in good faith. You suggested there was another option to treat her miscarriage as if it were a reasonable option. Which option would that be? And why do you think it is reasonable? And what is forcing doctors to offer one option but not the safer option?

You can’t be serious. You accused me of something (a 100% false accusation, to be clear), can’t back it up, and are now saying I’M not the one not arguing in good faith? Do you even hear yourself?!?

DP. Tell us what you think the safest option was then.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

I myself am a medical professional. I have to follow the law, as unfortunate as it sometimes is. And patients have to follow the law, too.

We know that Catholic hospitals frequently impose limits on reproductive care beyond that required by law. And it was the Ohio hospital (made up of medical professionals) that failed to have an efficient process to approve the abortion. You have unclean hands if you participate in this. Maybe the doctor should transferred her to a hospital just over the border in Pennsylvania to get the care she needed.

Don’t Catholic hospitals have a right to do this? Just as a patient has a right to where they receive care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

This is why we can’t have a reasonable discussion. You still can’t answer my question.

You’re not arguing in good faith. You suggested there was another option to treat her miscarriage as if it were a reasonable option. Which option would that be? And why do you think it is reasonable? And what is forcing doctors to offer one option but not the safer option?

You can’t be serious. You accused me of something (a 100% false accusation, to be clear), can’t back it up, and are now saying I’M not the one not arguing in good faith? Do you even hear yourself?!?

Clearly you don’t hear yourself or the tone of this: “D&C was not the only option.” What do you mean by that? Do you approve of that other option? Do you think it was a reasonable option?

Since you offer it as a rejoinder to the fact that the D&C was the BEST and SAFEST option.

I mean amputating a toe could also be an option for an infected toenail. Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

The nurse was told by the mother that the dead baby was outside of her home in a bucket. You can’t be so dumb to think that is an acceptable place for the body of a dead baby? You think the doctor should write down that the baby was left outside in a bucket and that would be acceptable? You are really off your rocker if you think that’s ok. I suppose if your neighbor gave birth to a stillborn baby and placed it outside, you and your kids would want to walk by the baby in the bucket? Wild animals attracted to blood and a decaying human body would eventually come consume the baby possibly.

Tell me how any of that is acceptable to you as a human being, and tell me how the state medical board would receive your report of a baby discarded publicly anywhere but in this case a residential neighborhood outside a home?

I really think some of you are trolling. This is not acceptable on any level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

I myself am a medical professional. I have to follow the law, as unfortunate as it sometimes is. And patients have to follow the law, too.

We know that Catholic hospitals frequently impose limits on reproductive care beyond that required by law. And it was the Ohio hospital (made up of medical professionals) that failed to have an efficient process to approve the abortion. You have unclean hands if you participate in this. Maybe the doctor should transferred her to a hospital just over the border in Pennsylvania to get the care she needed.

Don’t Catholic hospitals have a right to do this? Just as a patient has a right to where they receive care?

What good is that right if the one hospital you can get to within an hours drive is a one that won’t perform the procedure you need?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

I myself am a medical professional. I have to follow the law, as unfortunate as it sometimes is. And patients have to follow the law, too.

We know that Catholic hospitals frequently impose limits on reproductive care beyond that required by law. And it was the Ohio hospital (made up of medical professionals) that failed to have an efficient process to approve the abortion. You have unclean hands if you participate in this. Maybe the doctor should transferred her to a hospital just over the border in Pennsylvania to get the care she needed.

Don’t Catholic hospitals have a right to do this? Just as a patient has a right to where they receive care?

Under federal law they are supposed to provide emergency medical care. Beyond that, no, I don’t think Catholic hospitals that have an area monopoly on medical care should be allowed to deny reproductive care. If they do they should be sued for malpractice. No medical professional is allowed to flout the standard of care due to religious beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

The nurse was told by the mother that the dead baby was outside of her home in a bucket. You can’t be so dumb to think that is an acceptable place for the body of a dead baby? You think the doctor should write down that the baby was left outside in a bucket and that would be acceptable? You are really off your rocker if you think that’s ok. I suppose if your neighbor gave birth to a stillborn baby and placed it outside, you and your kids would want to walk by the baby in the bucket? Wild animals attracted to blood and a decaying human body would eventually come consume the baby possibly.

Tell me how any of that is acceptable to you as a human being, and tell me how the state medical board would receive your report of a baby discarded publicly anywhere but in this case a residential neighborhood outside a home?

I really think some of you are trolling. This is not acceptable on any level.

Can you for once tell us the appropriate place to put bloodied fetal remains that are probably also covered in fecal matter and other goop from your innards? Do you know if this patient have the special container you think is appropriate in this situation? Should she have left it n the toilet? On the floor? In the sink?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

The nurse was told by the mother that the dead baby was outside of her home in a bucket. You can’t be so dumb to think that is an acceptable place for the body of a dead baby? You think the doctor should write down that the baby was left outside in a bucket and that would be acceptable? You are really off your rocker if you think that’s ok. I suppose if your neighbor gave birth to a stillborn baby and placed it outside, you and your kids would want to walk by the baby in the bucket? Wild animals attracted to blood and a decaying human body would eventually come consume the baby possibly.

Tell me how any of that is acceptable to you as a human being, and tell me how the state medical board would receive your report of a baby discarded publicly anywhere but in this case a residential neighborhood outside a home?

I really think some of you are trolling. This is not acceptable on any level.

You don’t call the police on everything you deem “unacceptable.” And in fact no, I don’t deem it unacceptable, any more than if she flushed an 18 week pregnancy. I think policing what women do with a miscarriage based on your personal sense of disgust is unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

This is why we can’t have a reasonable discussion. You still can’t answer my question.

You’re not arguing in good faith. You suggested there was another option to treat her miscarriage as if it were a reasonable option. Which option would that be? And why do you think it is reasonable? And what is forcing doctors to offer one option but not the safer option?

You can’t be serious. You accused me of something (a 100% false accusation, to be clear), can’t back it up, and are now saying I’M not the one not arguing in good faith? Do you even hear yourself?!?

Clearly you don’t hear yourself or the tone of this: “D&C was not the only option.” What do you mean by that? Do you approve of that other option? Do you think it was a reasonable option?

Since you offer it as a rejoinder to the fact that the D&C was the BEST and SAFEST option.

I mean amputating a toe could also be an option for an infected toenail. Right?

I won’t engage further with someone who can’t answer a simple question because they know they were wrong yet keep dancing around that fact. If you want to answer my question first I’d be happy to continue with the discussion. Otherwise I’m going to bow out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

The nurse was told by the mother that the dead baby was outside of her home in a bucket. You can’t be so dumb to think that is an acceptable place for the body of a dead baby? You think the doctor should write down that the baby was left outside in a bucket and that would be acceptable? You are really off your rocker if you think that’s ok. I suppose if your neighbor gave birth to a stillborn baby and placed it outside, you and your kids would want to walk by the baby in the bucket? Wild animals attracted to blood and a decaying human body would eventually come consume the baby possibly.

Tell me how any of that is acceptable to you as a human being, and tell me how the state medical board would receive your report of a baby discarded publicly anywhere but in this case a residential neighborhood outside a home?

I really think some of you are trolling. This is not acceptable on any level.

The toilet is where most miscarriages end up.

If the hospital would have DONE ITS DAMN JOB, they would have had the remains in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anyone going to educate the thread on hiw the nurse committed malpractice?

Everyone agrees dead babies can be discarded outside a home in a bucket in residential neighborhood? Remember, if you see the body of a baby laying around somewhere outside by your neighbor’s house, keep it moving, nosy! You wouldn’t want to deprive someone of their freedom to discard their babies in public. The police don’t care at all.