Woman charged with felony for having a stillbirth

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

And then say ooopsie, a dead baby is sitting in a bucket in a residential neighborhood, whatever. You would not attempt to locate a dead baby in a bucket? What would you write down about the baby? It disappeared? Make sure you are adhering to Ohio state law because you can lose your ability to practice and make a living if you do not.

I would treat it like any other woman who miscarried at home. If what you’re arguing is that all women who miscarry at home need to be reported to the police for a home inspection of the miscarriage remains, that is extremely disturbing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

An immediate D&C when she first showed up bleeding and with a nonviable fetus and an infection was the standard of care. Which she, incontrovertibley, did not receive.

It’s unclear what the the reports on her being “offered an induction” means. I’ll be really curious to see more information about it. What I strongly suspect is that the Catholic hospital admins suggested a workaround of inducing labor at 22 weeks instead of the standard of care (D&C) because inducing labor after theoretical viability is technically not an abortion under Catholic doctrine and Ohio law.

I think it's also unclear that the hospital being Catholic had anything to do with this. It sounds as though the issue was Ohio law.

Maybe but when I had an early second trimester loss the Catholic hospital I went to didn’t offer a D&C and I had to go somewhere else for it. It’s a common thing at Catholic hospitals, which is why despite their good intentions in other situations they are a menace to societal health care overall because of the things they refuse to do. And if a Catholic hospital is the only hospital around for miles it is a problem for women.

Wow. Was that in DC? They actually refused a d&c even though the fetus was dead?

What hospital so we know where to avoid?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

And then say ooopsie, a dead baby is sitting in a bucket in a residential neighborhood, whatever. You would not attempt to locate a dead baby in a bucket? What would you write down about the baby? It disappeared? Make sure you are adhering to Ohio state law because you can lose your ability to practice and make a living if you do not.

Did she tell the patient, I’m going to call someone who can go pick up the remains in the bucket so we can get it out of the way and test them if you want to have them tested?

No, answer the question. You are reviewing her chart. Where is the dead baby?

The Catholic hospital offered her medical treatment even though her baby still had a heartbeat. That shows the doctors knew the patient was very sick. Her baby still had a heartbeat, but the baby would not survive, and the patient needed urgent treatment. She left after they offered her medical care and then a second time after offering her medical care again. But somehow they are the monsters. Oh and the nurse is a monster because she did her job. And the dead baby plunged down the toilet is a monster too, for just existing.

The nurse isn’t a monster but she engaged in malpractice here. The hospital, being Catholic, almost certainly delayed her care longer than necessary. The Ohio legislature is a monster for passing the laws against abortion. The prosecutor and judge are definitely monsters. Interesting that you, alone among pretty much everyone looking at this case, thinks the moster here is the sick woman.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

No! We don’t live in a country, yet, where the authorities have a remit to scruitinize women’s trash cans and toilets to determine if their miscarriage was acceptably handled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

And then say ooopsie, a dead baby is sitting in a bucket in a residential neighborhood, whatever. You would not attempt to locate a dead baby in a bucket? What would you write down about the baby? It disappeared? Make sure you are adhering to Ohio state law because you can lose your ability to practice and make a living if you do not.

Did she tell the patient, I’m going to call someone who can go pick up the remains in the bucket so we can get it out of the way and test them if you want to have them tested?

No, answer the question. You are reviewing her chart. Where is the dead baby?

The Catholic hospital offered her medical treatment even though her baby still had a heartbeat. That shows the doctors knew the patient was very sick. Her baby still had a heartbeat, but the baby would not survive, and the patient needed urgent treatment. She left after they offered her medical care and then a second time after offering her medical care again. But somehow they are the monsters. Oh and the nurse is a monster because she did her job. And the dead baby plunged down the toilet is a monster too, for just existing.

The nurse isn’t a monster but she engaged in malpractice here. The hospital, being Catholic, almost certainly delayed her care longer than necessary. The Ohio legislature is a monster for passing the laws against abortion. The prosecutor and judge are definitely monsters. Interesting that you, alone among pretty much everyone looking at this case, thinks the moster here is the sick woman.

+100000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

And then say ooopsie, a dead baby is sitting in a bucket in a residential neighborhood, whatever. You would not attempt to locate a dead baby in a bucket? What would you write down about the baby? It disappeared? Make sure you are adhering to Ohio state law because you can lose your ability to practice and make a living if you do not.

Did she tell the patient, I’m going to call someone who can go pick up the remains in the bucket so we can get it out of the way and test them if you want to have them tested?

No, answer the question. You are reviewing her chart. Where is the dead baby?

The Catholic hospital offered her medical treatment even though her baby still had a heartbeat. That shows the doctors knew the patient was very sick. Her baby still had a heartbeat, but the baby would not survive, and the patient needed urgent treatment. She left after they offered her medical care and then a second time after offering her medical care again. But somehow they are the monsters. Oh and the nurse is a monster because she did her job. And the dead baby plunged down the toilet is a monster too, for just existing.

The nurse isn’t a monster but she engaged in malpractice here. The hospital, being Catholic, almost certainly delayed her care longer than necessary. The Ohio legislature is a monster for passing the laws against abortion. The prosecutor and judge are definitely monsters. Interesting that you, alone among pretty much everyone looking at this case, thinks the moster here is the sick woman.

+100000

how did the nurse engage in malpractice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

This is why we can’t have a reasonable discussion. You still can’t answer my question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

I myself am a medical professional. I have to follow the law, as unfortunate as it sometimes is. And patients have to follow the law, too.

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Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

This is why we can’t have a reasonable discussion. You still can’t answer my question.

You’re not arguing in good faith. You suggested there was another option to treat her miscarriage as if it were a reasonable option. Which option would that be? And why do you think it is reasonable? And what is forcing doctors to offer one option but not the safer option?