The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

+1

It's extremely bizarre to me that people think this woman's life is aspirational or that she has a good relationship. And yes people have said those exact things in this thread.

To me, their relationship is a complete dumpster fire and she is a cautionary tale.

And, Harper isn't? Out of the two women, Harper seems way more miserable and dissatisfied in her sexless marriage with a husband that shows her zero affection and is always annoyed with her and beating off to p*rn.

Did I say anything about Harper? No. Their marriage is a mess too. But at least Harper doesn't have innocent kids in the mix and she has a job.

But Harper really wants kids. And, she appears jealous of Daphne's lifestyle which is why she gossips and speaks poorly of her--though I think that is starting to turn and she is liking her more.

Harper is definitely jealous of the love and affection Cameron shows Daphne--and the sex they have which she has heard through the walls while she and Ethan sit there not talking and ignoring one another.

I mean, she definitely was jealous in the beginning but I would assume she is now much less so after she found out that Cam hired a hooker the second Daphne left town. And especially now that Daphne has insinuated she has been conducting a long standing affair with her trainer.

Au contraire I think this just adds to Harper's general confusion. Because she DOES see the genuine affection and love between them, and while she does now realize that there is depth and problems underneath, she is challenged by continuing to see that warmth and physical affection remain undimmed despite things that she could not get over. And she feels jealous that she doesn't have that with Ethan despite having a 'normal' relationship unburdened by these really messed up dynamics. I think she is being yanked back and forth between being jealous of them and knowing she doesn't want to be them. Hating them but also seeing that while they do many things wrong, they do this one thing right and it happens to be the one thing she is yearning for but unable to grasp which is making her question her life at large.

^ I think this is exactly right.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.

OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?

I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.

Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147

She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.

I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.

The scene is purposefully ambiguous. They had her go on and on about this adorable trainer with blonde hair and blue eyes, two recessive genes. And then show a photo of a blonde haired blue eyed kid. I'm not SURE the trainer is the dad, but the show is clearly leaving the ambiguity there, putting the question out there. This is a show where all the background choices are dripping in meaning. There is a photo of St. Lucia in one of the rooms.

GOOD LORD!! Daphne has light hair and blue eyes. Cameron only has to carry the recessive gene for blue eyes and they can definitely have blonde hair and blue-eyed kids.

I'm a brunette woman with two teenage blonde blue-eyed sons that definitely came from me. My husband is blonde. A blonde/red-head and a brunette can definitely make a blonde kid---and many of these kids are blonde as kids that turn darker as they get older.

People assume dark hair is dominant, but my sister also has two blonde kids and one brunette and her hair is jet black. Her husband is a blonde.

Yeah that is why I said it is AMBIGUOUS. Do you know what the word ambiguous means? The show is basically swimming in ambiguity but when they want something to be clear they do show it (ie we know Ethan did not cheat on Harper that night with Cameron).

I'm not saying the kids aren't Cameron's, I'm saying the scene is ambiguous. Are you also the poster that thinks the only way people can love each other is sunshine and rainbows and happiness and Daphne is just some poor lovestuck lady crying herself to sleep every night?

No. I'm the person saying Cameron and Daphne love each other--even with his flaws and infidelity.

Well then we agree on that! But I honestly don't see how anyone could not at least acknowledge that the scene was intentionally ambiguous. It was a pivotal scene where Daphne was being vague. It could mean anything.

BUT I don't think it has any bearing on the deaths for two reasons.

1) The whole point Daphne is making is, IMO, immaterial to whether she is having an affair or whether she gets her purpose from her kids. Her point is that she sees Cameron for who he is and instead of letting it ruin her, she does what she wants and lives how she wants and copes with this unhappiness by getting fulfillment elsewhere. It isn't important who the father is or if there is or isn't a trainer. Her point is that she finds a way, and Harper can find a way too, and that they, as women, shouldn't depend on imperfect men to determine their lives and happiness.

2) I don't think the conflict that results in a death will be between Daphne and Cameron. They have both decided that they can handle their demons and suppress their unhappiness to be together. Neither has unresolved anger towards each other. It is processed accepted and dealt with. Unlike say Harper and Ethan who have an elephant of tension standing in the room with them. Cameron and Daphne don't have that. I think the only thing that could send them over the edge is Cameron being broke, but I honestly still think she would likely just join him in trying to pull a scam rather than walk away. Daphne has coping mechanisms and uses them. I think she's capable of murder honestly, but I don't think she has any desire to murder him

I don't think we know if they can both handle their demons. We don't know if Cameron thinks or knows that Daphne has a "trainer" - we don't know if she knew he was regularly cheating on her, not just that one time, and is doing it in such a flagrant and humiliating way. I don't care how tolerant you are, your spouse hiring two hookers, having a threesome in them in your room, and then not even having the money to pay them so they have to chase you like that guy from Better Off Dead trying to get his two dollars, is humiliating and terrible.

I know, the above take is absolutely insane. Based on what we know, Daphne thinks Cam "may" have cheated on her once and that it was his "dark triad" coworkers who led him astray. As far as we know, Cam has no knowledge of the trainer and he does not seem like the type to be cool with "his woman" cheating on him and potentially making babies that he's raising with another man.

This situation is not sustainable and will come to a head in the next few years. Perhaps they'll be the characters who carry over into the next season.

This idea that they know what each other is doing and accept it is NOT IN THE SCRIPT, lol. They do not have an open marriage. Daphne has a look the other way, DADT policy and Cam thinks he has a faithful wife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are the gays conning Tanya and Portia? How did they get theater tickets and hotel rooms etc?

They need a big donation to keep maintaining the beauty of the old property.

Unf they should charge the public or host $500k weddings there

[Anonymous]

Cameron is probably going to give poor Daphne an STD at some point.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.

OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?

I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.

Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147

She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.

I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.

The scene is purposefully ambiguous. They had her go on and on about this adorable trainer with blonde hair and blue eyes, two recessive genes. And then show a photo of a blonde haired blue eyed kid. I'm not SURE the trainer is the dad, but the show is clearly leaving the ambiguity there, putting the question out there. This is a show where all the background choices are dripping in meaning. There is a photo of St. Lucia in one of the rooms.

GOOD LORD!! Daphne has light hair and blue eyes. Cameron only has to carry the recessive gene for blue eyes and they can definitely have blonde hair and blue-eyed kids.

I'm a brunette woman with two teenage blonde blue-eyed sons that definitely came from me. My husband is blonde. A blonde/red-head and a brunette can definitely make a blonde kid---and many of these kids are blonde as kids that turn darker as they get older.

People assume dark hair is dominant, but my sister also has two blonde kids and one brunette and her hair is jet black. Her husband is a blonde.

Yeah that is why I said it is AMBIGUOUS. Do you know what the word ambiguous means? The show is basically swimming in ambiguity but when they want something to be clear they do show it (ie we know Ethan did not cheat on Harper that night with Cameron).

I'm not saying the kids aren't Cameron's, I'm saying the scene is ambiguous. Are you also the poster that thinks the only way people can love each other is sunshine and rainbows and happiness and Daphne is just some poor lovestuck lady crying herself to sleep every night?

No. I'm the person saying Cameron and Daphne love each other--even with his flaws and infidelity.

Well then we agree on that! But I honestly don't see how anyone could not at least acknowledge that the scene was intentionally ambiguous. It was a pivotal scene where Daphne was being vague. It could mean anything.

BUT I don't think it has any bearing on the deaths for two reasons.

1) The whole point Daphne is making is, IMO, immaterial to whether she is having an affair or whether she gets her purpose from her kids. Her point is that she sees Cameron for who he is and instead of letting it ruin her, she does what she wants and lives how she wants and copes with this unhappiness by getting fulfillment elsewhere. It isn't important who the father is or if there is or isn't a trainer. Her point is that she finds a way, and Harper can find a way too, and that they, as women, shouldn't depend on imperfect men to determine their lives and happiness.

2) I don't think the conflict that results in a death will be between Daphne and Cameron. They have both decided that they can handle their demons and suppress their unhappiness to be together. Neither has unresolved anger towards each other. It is processed accepted and dealt with. Unlike say Harper and Ethan who have an elephant of tension standing in the room with them. Cameron and Daphne don't have that. I think the only thing that could send them over the edge is Cameron being broke, but I honestly still think she would likely just join him in trying to pull a scam rather than walk away. Daphne has coping mechanisms and uses them. I think she's capable of murder honestly, but I don't think she has any desire to murder him

I don't think we know if they can both handle their demons. We don't know if Cameron thinks or knows that Daphne has a "trainer" - we don't know if she knew he was regularly cheating on her, not just that one time, and is doing it in such a flagrant and humiliating way. I don't care how tolerant you are, your spouse hiring two hookers, having a threesome in them in your room, and then not even having the money to pay them so they have to chase you like that guy from Better Off Dead trying to get his two dollars, is humiliating and terrible.

I know, the above take is absolutely insane. Based on what we know, Daphne thinks Cam "may" have cheated on her once and that it was his "dark triad" coworkers who led him astray. As far as we know, Cam has no knowledge of the trainer and he does not seem like the type to be cool with "his woman" cheating on him and potentially making babies that he's raising with another man.

This situation is not sustainable and will come to a head in the next few years. Perhaps they'll be the characters who carry over into the next season.

This idea that they know what each other is doing and accept it is NOT IN THE SCRIPT, lol. They do not have an open marriage. Daphne has a look the other way, DADT policy and Cam thinks he has a faithful wife.

There are a few posters here who have a very naive view of the world and people. There is a quote that Matt Damon's character says in The Departed: "If we're not gonna make it, it's gotta be you that gets out, cause I'm not capable. I'm f**king Irish, I'll deal with something being wrong for the rest of my life."

Many relationships are transactional, many are not simple. Many have trade offs. Many people deal with something being wrong for a long long long time. Sometimes for their whole lives. Because the thing that is wrong is easier then changing. Or confronting your own problems.

Daphne clearly knows what's up, she just doesn't want to say it out loud. She would rather not know, but pushing it out of her mind isn't the same thing as not knowing. I agree Cam thinks she is faithful, but I also think Cam would not look for evidence that she wasn't. He is less resilient than her and would not be able to do what she does and consciously push it away and find trade offs. And she is more discreet than he is and more savvy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

+1

It's extremely bizarre to me that people think this woman's life is aspirational or that she has a good relationship. And yes people have said those exact things in this thread.

To me, their relationship is a complete dumpster fire and she is a cautionary tale.

And, Harper isn't? Out of the two women, Harper seems way more miserable and dissatisfied in her sexless marriage with a husband that shows her zero affection and is always annoyed with her and beating off to p*rn.

Did I say anything about Harper? No. Their marriage is a mess too. But at least Harper doesn't have innocent kids in the mix and she has a job.

Exactly, Harper can easily leave the marriage and never deal with Ethan.

Daphne cannot, she is tethered to Cam forever via the kids, custody arrangements, child support whatever direction, etc.

If she comes for money she could get full custody and live off the interest of fixed income investments. All you need is $1M of rental or yield producing investments to throw off $100-200k a year to live on. It’s called wealth. So imagine the passive income if she has a $5-20m trust. The principal isn’t going anywhere, it’s growing, and the passive income can be swept out annually as needed or reinvested

[Anonymous]

I don't understand what Cameron thinks he's doing by trying to get with Harper if he also wants Ethan to invest his money with him. Can he just not stop himself? Or does he think this is a mindgame that will keep Ethan subservient to him somehow like in college? I don't think it would -- I think it would make Ethan want to stay far, far away from him. And I'd expect someone like Cameron who makes his living the way he does (especially if it's by scamming people) to have more emotional intelligence than that.

It just doesn't make sense to me. It could blow up the whole trip and their whole relationship and doesn't seem like it could lead to anything positive for an ultimate end result for him. So why is he risking it? Is he just stupid?

[Anonymous]

It's interesting to think about whose marriage is worse (of the foursome). Harper and Ethan have the much more "normal" marriage - low-key, amiable, minimal conflict, but not passionate or loving. Daphne and Cameron's marriage is a total mess by any normal standard - cheating, dishonesty, game-playing - but they seem to have a genuine affection and attraction for each other that Harper and Ethan have lost in the banality of normal-person married life.

I think the show is basically telling us there is a tradeoff between passion and stability and the right balance might be impossible to find

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.

OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?

I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.

Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147

She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.

I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.

The scene is purposefully ambiguous. They had her go on and on about this adorable trainer with blonde hair and blue eyes, two recessive genes. And then show a photo of a blonde haired blue eyed kid. I'm not SURE the trainer is the dad, but the show is clearly leaving the ambiguity there, putting the question out there. This is a show where all the background choices are dripping in meaning. There is a photo of St. Lucia in one of the rooms.

GOOD LORD!! Daphne has light hair and blue eyes. Cameron only has to carry the recessive gene for blue eyes and they can definitely have blonde hair and blue-eyed kids.

I'm a brunette woman with two teenage blonde blue-eyed sons that definitely came from me. My husband is blonde. A blonde/red-head and a brunette can definitely make a blonde kid---and many of these kids are blonde as kids that turn darker as they get older.

People assume dark hair is dominant, but my sister also has two blonde kids and one brunette and her hair is jet black. Her husband is a blonde.

Yeah that is why I said it is AMBIGUOUS. Do you know what the word ambiguous means? The show is basically swimming in ambiguity but when they want something to be clear they do show it (ie we know Ethan did not cheat on Harper that night with Cameron).

I'm not saying the kids aren't Cameron's, I'm saying the scene is ambiguous. Are you also the poster that thinks the only way people can love each other is sunshine and rainbows and happiness and Daphne is just some poor lovestuck lady crying herself to sleep every night?

No. I'm the person saying Cameron and Daphne love each other--even with his flaws and infidelity.

Well then we agree on that! But I honestly don't see how anyone could not at least acknowledge that the scene was intentionally ambiguous. It was a pivotal scene where Daphne was being vague. It could mean anything.

BUT I don't think it has any bearing on the deaths for two reasons.

1) The whole point Daphne is making is, IMO, immaterial to whether she is having an affair or whether she gets her purpose from her kids. Her point is that she sees Cameron for who he is and instead of letting it ruin her, she does what she wants and lives how she wants and copes with this unhappiness by getting fulfillment elsewhere. It isn't important who the father is or if there is or isn't a trainer. Her point is that she finds a way, and Harper can find a way too, and that they, as women, shouldn't depend on imperfect men to determine their lives and happiness.

2) I don't think the conflict that results in a death will be between Daphne and Cameron. They have both decided that they can handle their demons and suppress their unhappiness to be together. Neither has unresolved anger towards each other. It is processed accepted and dealt with. Unlike say Harper and Ethan who have an elephant of tension standing in the room with them. Cameron and Daphne don't have that. I think the only thing that could send them over the edge is Cameron being broke, but I honestly still think she would likely just join him in trying to pull a scam rather than walk away. Daphne has coping mechanisms and uses them. I think she's capable of murder honestly, but I don't think she has any desire to murder him

I don't think we know if they can both handle their demons. We don't know if Cameron thinks or knows that Daphne has a "trainer" - we don't know if she knew he was regularly cheating on her, not just that one time, and is doing it in such a flagrant and humiliating way. I don't care how tolerant you are, your spouse hiring two hookers, having a threesome in them in your room, and then not even having the money to pay them so they have to chase you like that guy from Better Off Dead trying to get his two dollars, is humiliating and terrible.

I know, the above take is absolutely insane. Based on what we know, Daphne thinks Cam "may" have cheated on her once and that it was his "dark triad" coworkers who led him astray. As far as we know, Cam has no knowledge of the trainer and he does not seem like the type to be cool with "his woman" cheating on him and potentially making babies that he's raising with another man.

This situation is not sustainable and will come to a head in the next few years. Perhaps they'll be the characters who carry over into the next season.

This idea that they know what each other is doing and accept it is NOT IN THE SCRIPT, lol. They do not have an open marriage. Daphne has a look the other way, DADT policy and Cam thinks he has a faithful wife.

There are a few posters here who have a very naive view of the world and people. There is a quote that Matt Damon's character says in The Departed: "If we're not gonna make it, it's gotta be you that gets out, cause I'm not capable. I'm f**king Irish, I'll deal with something being wrong for the rest of my life."

Many relationships are transactional, many are not simple. Many have trade offs. Many people deal with something being wrong for a long long long time. Sometimes for their whole lives. Because the thing that is wrong is easier then changing. Or confronting your own problems.

Daphne clearly knows what's up, she just doesn't want to say it out loud. She would rather not know, but pushing it out of her mind isn't the same thing as not knowing. I agree Cam thinks she is faithful, but I also think Cam would not look for evidence that she wasn't. He is less resilient than her and would not be able to do what she does and consciously push it away and find trade offs. And she is more discreet than he is and more savvy.

LOL she is not exactly discreet in telling Harper she has an affair partner who potentially fathered one or both of her kids. Harper is going to run her mouth to Ethan the second she gets a chance.

Plus she has implied that she's tried to tell girlfriends these things or something similar before but they "stabbed her in the back" by talking behind her back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what Cameron thinks he's doing by trying to get with Harper if he also wants Ethan to invest his money with him. Can he just not stop himself? Or does he think this is a mindgame that will keep Ethan subservient to him somehow like in college? I don't think it would -- I think it would make Ethan want to stay far, far away from him. And I'd expect someone like Cameron who makes his living the way he does (especially if it's by scamming people) to have more emotional intelligence than that.

It just doesn't make sense to me. It could blow up the whole trip and their whole relationship and doesn't seem like it could lead to anything positive for an ultimate end result for him. So why is he risking it? Is he just stupid?

Cameron thinks he is untouchable. And he has the mindset of a bully who believes he's in control of the subject of his bullying. And he knows he is exceptionally good looking and I imagine does not encounter women who don't fall over him often. Harper is enticing on two fronts, she is a challenge in her own right because she clearly doesn't like him, and she is Ethan's wife (property) and he wants what Ethan has. Clearly he and Ethan have a relationship with deep tension, and sometimes when you're dealing with a relationship like that your normal judgement is clouded.

He is hedonistic and doesn't even seem like he thinks he should exert effort to control his urges, he just believes he needs to follow the social contract and keep infidelity hidden. Because this is the contract he has unspoken with Daphne. So he lives in a way where he acts first and thinks later. This is probably how he earned (and likely lost) his money and just how he lives. He has never faced serious consequences for his behavior so he has never had to adjust his behavior.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

DP. She's definitely more savvy and resourceful than Cameron. And she has EQ by the boatload, a good heart.

Agree.

Daphne is actually the most mature, centered, authentic character in the show. And wholesome.

Do we even know if she has or had a job? I’d love it if she came from money, had a prenup, took a startup public and is a min and volunteer now.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

+1

It's extremely bizarre to me that people think this woman's life is aspirational or that she has a good relationship. And yes people have said those exact things in this thread.

To me, their relationship is a complete dumpster fire and she is a cautionary tale.

And, Harper isn't? Out of the two women, Harper seems way more miserable and dissatisfied in her sexless marriage with a husband that shows her zero affection and is always annoyed with her and beating off to p*rn.

Did I say anything about Harper? No. Their marriage is a mess too. But at least Harper doesn't have innocent kids in the mix and she has a job.

Exactly, Harper can easily leave the marriage and never deal with Ethan.

Daphne cannot, she is tethered to Cam forever via the kids, custody arrangements, child support whatever direction, etc.

If she comes for money she could get full custody and live off the interest of fixed income investments. All you need is $1M of rental or yield producing investments to throw off $100-200k a year to live on. It’s called wealth. So imagine the passive income if she has a $5-20m trust. The principal isn’t going anywhere, it’s growing, and the passive income can be swept out annually as needed or reinvested

We haver zero reason to believe she has a million dollars personally, let alone 20. LOL

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

+1

It's extremely bizarre to me that people think this woman's life is aspirational or that she has a good relationship. And yes people have said those exact things in this thread.

To me, their relationship is a complete dumpster fire and she is a cautionary tale.

And, Harper isn't? Out of the two women, Harper seems way more miserable and dissatisfied in her sexless marriage with a husband that shows her zero affection and is always annoyed with her and beating off to p*rn.

Did I say anything about Harper? No. Their marriage is a mess too. But at least Harper doesn't have innocent kids in the mix and she has a job.

Exactly, Harper can easily leave the marriage and never deal with Ethan.

Daphne cannot, she is tethered to Cam forever via the kids, custody arrangements, child support whatever direction, etc.

If she comes for money she could get full custody and live off the interest of fixed income investments. All you need is $1M of rental or yield producing investments to throw off $100-200k a year to live on. It’s called wealth. So imagine the passive income if she has a $5-20m trust. The principal isn’t going anywhere, it’s growing, and the passive income can be swept out annually as needed or reinvested

omg now you've had daphne investing in rental properties?

do you see yourself in daphne - is this why you've constructed such specific, and off-book ways of making her life work out? i'm not asking that to be rude - but out of deep curiosity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.

OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?

I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.

Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147

He’s attracted to Harper the same reason he’s attracted to all women- it’s a conquest and competition. Nothing totally and only on Ethan. Unf Ethan is a stereotypical Asian Brit/American stereotype.
She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.

I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.

The scene is purposefully ambiguous. They had her go on and on about this adorable trainer with blonde hair and blue eyes, two recessive genes. And then show a photo of a blonde haired blue eyed kid. I'm not SURE the trainer is the dad, but the show is clearly leaving the ambiguity there, putting the question out there. This is a show where all the background choices are dripping in meaning. There is a photo of St. Lucia in one of the rooms.

GOOD LORD!! Daphne has light hair and blue eyes. Cameron only has to carry the recessive gene for blue eyes and they can definitely have blonde hair and blue-eyed kids.

I'm a brunette woman with two teenage blonde blue-eyed sons that definitely came from me. My husband is blonde. A blonde/red-head and a brunette can definitely make a blonde kid---and many of these kids are blonde as kids that turn darker as they get older.

People assume dark hair is dominant, but my sister also has two blonde kids and one brunette and her hair is jet black. Her husband is a blonde.

I think it is ambiguous to make people go with the more obvious "oh wow! she's having an affair they aren't his kids', but I don't think that is it at all--especially with her behavior of not doing anything bad or even trying on her night away and her obvious love/attachment for Cameron. I think she has inner fury that he is doing this stuff behind her back and it wasn't until Harper told her something went on when they were gone--that it gets her going. She told herself he only cheated once and it didn't mean anything and he's not a bad person like the guys at work.

I'm guessing either someone falsely tells Cameron they aren't his kids (when they really are)--and that passion killing happens to the messenger. Or- Daphne does finally decide enough is enough and her inner Betty Broderick comes out and she carries out a plan--like she alluded in the scene about watching and loving all the Dateline's where the wife kills the husband.

I thought she was purposefully ambiguous about whether she's having an affair with the trainer, but by showing Harper a picture of her kids was intentionally signaling to Harper, "don't mess with my marriage because I'm sticking with Cameron for my kids." The trainer isn't the point.

Yes. I took it as 'don't judge me. I have kids and I'm doing my best by them'...and I think she senses what is going on with the flirting btwn Harper and Cameron and is saying "don't do this. I am a mother with kids'.

I don't think Cameron and Harper are flirting with each other. I think that Ethan has correctly assessed that Cameron, with his mimetic desire, is attracted to Harper. I think its clear that Daphne knows Cameron is not very faithful but that the women don't matter and I don't think she sees Harper as a threat to her marriage. Just another passing fancy, if she's paying attention to that at all. Daphne doesn't dwell on his proclivities.

I think that Daphne sees Harper struggling with the fact that she wants a 'pure' love. A normal and kind and open and warm love and she likely thinks that this is because Harper hasn't done what she has done and found a way to 'accept' Ethan's flaws. But Daphne is coming from her own bias here and she has a husband who is flawed but loving and affectionate towards her so she is giving the wrong advice, it would help someone in Daphne's situation but Harper is not in Daphne's situation. She is in a more dangerous situation. I could actually see Ethan killing Harper, Ethan has a well of fury it is clear. Tamped down under a calm exterior. And Harper doesn't get any of the positive interactions from Ethan that Daphne gets from Cameron. Daphne is ruminating on how she has survived and gotten power in her relationship, but she is also selfish and doesn't see how the power dynamics between Ethan and Harper do not mirror the power dynamics between her and Cameron.

[Anonymous]

Oh and I totally forgot that Cameron has been so aggressively coming on to Harper this whole time including showing her his junk and rubbing her leg under the table across from his wife!!!!

Tell me again how much Cam loves Daphne and would never humiliate her or hurt her. Such a great marriage those two have. They will definitely make it, no question.