Per ATL: Yale & Harvard Law No Longer T14

[Anonymous]

New ATL rankings have Duke, UVA & Cornell 1-3. Yale 15, Harvard 16 and Stanford 27. 😳

There is an analysis of why, but even ATL seems a bit mystified, since Yale and Harvard have always topped these rankings. The results are based on outcomes — jobs and employment (and before someone makes this argument, yes, they do account for low-paying prestige jobs like clerkships).

In any case, it provides an interesting data point for those arguing that professional outcomes are better from the Ivies.

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/06/5-takeaways-from-the-2022-law-school-rankings/?utm_campaign=Above%20the%20Law%20Daily&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=216133768&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_VR5Dt2naFSpoRtaHW60JUaFvT_kkPR5ZlsVYth5jfcr4ZV_Cr1H3aV9LVzpHhv7uGY34PCUVWLr7rRyslChej0jFqCA&utm_content=216133768&utm_source=hs_email

[Anonymous]

Lol! I don’t think so.

[Anonymous]

So much for the ATL rankings..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lol! I don’t think so.

This is the kind of reasoned, logical argument we’ve come to expect from Ivy law grads. I think we can see why they aren’t doing well in the job market.

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting analysis:

The ATL Top 50 ranking isn’t trying to emulate other rankings out there. As opposed to privileging a law school’s “inputs” — GPAs and LSAT scores — we put our thumb on the school’s outputs and reward schools offering students the best return on investment. So Yale might be a better law school in the abstract, but that doesn’t mean it’s giving you the best bang for your educational buck compared to another traditional “T14” school like Duke.

But here’s the thing… Yale and Harvard and Stanford used to top our ranking too. The initial ATL Top 50 ranking placed the HYS triad in the top three places. The methodology hasn’t really changed over that run, so how did we get here?

It appears to be a combination of schools upping their job placement game and the vagaries of cost of living. Taking an isolated comparison, Duke’s all-in cost of attendance is $337,238 per Law School Transparency, Stanford is going to run someone $383,937. Meanwhile, Duke has a 93.6 percent employment score and a 2.4 percent underemployment score while Stanford has an 82.6 percent employment score and a 12 percent underemployment score.

This trend is more interesting to me than the 2022 snapshot. The ATL methodology isn’t intentionally detrimental to the HYS schools… but from the start of the rankings until today those schools have made choices that dragged them from the podium. That says something about the philosophy guiding the schools right now.

[Anonymous]

Maybe HYS grads are just turning away from soul-crushing stints in Big Law and going on to get PhDs (needed to become a professor at top law schools - most of whom have JDs from HYS) or going in house right away at tech start ups that offered greater deferred compensation. In any event, COVID-times make the job numbers everywhere wonky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe HYS grads are just turning away from soul-crushing stints in Big Law and going on to get PhDs (needed to become a professor at top law schools - most of whom have JDs from HYS) or going in house right away at tech start ups that offered greater deferred compensation. In any event, COVID-times make the job numbers everywhere wonky.

I think that's more like it. A Harvard Law grad will either be much pickier about their jobs, and/or want a career in research or education that does not come with a large salary. I don't think Obama made that much money before becoming President

[Anonymous]

Can someone post the rankings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe HYS grads are just turning away from soul-crushing stints in Big Law and going on to get PhDs (needed to become a professor at top law schools - most of whom have JDs from HYS) or going in house right away at tech start ups that offered greater deferred compensation. In any event, COVID-times make the job numbers everywhere wonky.

I think that's more like it. A Harvard Law grad will either be much pickier about their jobs, and/or want a career in research or education that does not come with a large salary. I don't think Obama made that much money before becoming President

No. His wife also worked briefly, dipped feet in healthcare and U Chicago’s programs and then stayed home to support his career. They weren’t in it for money but worked out well in the end and they made lots of money after young retirement

[Anonymous]

Everyone is figuring out that Ivies and their professional schools are good but no super special compared to other schools in same tier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone post the rankings?

+1 AND cost

[Anonymous]

Considering the recent idiocy of YLS students, I'm not particularly surprised. Who would want to hire these twits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is figuring out that Ivies and their professional schools are good but no super special compared to other schools in same tier.

Which explains why the non-Ivy suffered the most precipitous fall?

[Anonymous]

Can someone post the top 10- I do not have an ATL account and do not want to do so and get sucked into its vortex 😊.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t even know Duke had a law school…but ok.