If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason

[Anonymous]

Why did you target that person? Jealousy? envy?

[Anonymous]

I doubt anyone will admit it, even here.

I was pushed out if a job, though less through micromanaging and more through a slow atrophy of my career at the company. My bosses were polite to my face and had no cause to fire me or demote me as I was good at my job and liked by clients. They quietly ignored me, stayed indifferent to my projects, failed to staff me to anything new, until I quit because I was miserable. The silent treatment.

The reason why, I learned later, is that a colleague told them privately that he believed I was a Trump supporter. The irony: I’m not. But for some reason they believed him. They couldn’t ask me about it or do anything officially because that would have been blatantly illegal. So they froze me out, work became miserable (I went in antidepressants and still struggled, this whole thing destroyed my sense of self worth and made me feel like I was going crazy). I tried several times to understand what was going on, and they’d avoid meeting with me directly and then lie and say everything was great.

If I thought it wouldn’t be a miserable experience, I’d sue them. But my mental health improved when I left the job and now I think I have PTSD— I can imagine going through a legal process with them.

I don’t think they’d even admit it, even here, because even putting it somewhere anonymously could expose them to liability. The only reason I know is a former colleague who is in grad school for a career change told me, and she would never testify to it.

People are monsters.

[Anonymous]

Managers are not always the best employees and they know it. Often times they are jealous of someone under them that possesses skills they do not. From what I have observed in my companies it can be pure jealousy and fear of being exposed as incompetent.

[Anonymous]

No one will say they pushed someone out "for no reason." You may not know the reason or consider it valid but if it happened to you, the person had a reason they considered valid.

[Anonymous]

There’s someone I would like to push out and I’m sure he’d say it’s “for no reason” and we are jealous and/or micromanaging after 20 years to growing a major program.

I reality, he’s a bad manager and communicator who won’t fully align his program with bigger picture goals. Slowly we’ve taken away his team as other valued employees have expressed an inability to effectively work with him. He disrespects strategy, and direct orders from higher up because he thinks his way is better. I could 100% see him feeling like we are “micromanaging”, but in reality we’re trying to get him to play nice with the bigger organizational processes and goals, and to stop poisoning the pot with other staff.

It’s really not micromanaging to push out - it’s trying to get him in line so he can stay. But if he’s unwilling to comply and stop being a jerk I won’t be sad to see him go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Managers are not always the best employees and they know it. Often times they are jealous of someone under them that possesses skills they do not. From what I have observed in my companies it can be pure jealousy and fear of being exposed as incompetent.

This. 100x this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one will say they pushed someone out "for no reason." You may not know the reason or consider it valid but if it happened to you, the person had a reason they considered valid.

This. I am a principal in a school and inherited an incompetent assistant principal. He was a nice person, but way in over his head. He took no initiative on anything and had to be prompted to do things. He thought he knew instruction, but didn’t. Wouldn’t talk at meetings. I spent countless hours working with him, setting up systems to support him, provide coaching, etc, and he just wasn’t cutting it. The final straw came when he lied about a project and attempted to blame others. If you were to ask him today (he’s back to being a teacher), the narrative he’s written for himself is that I went after him and that other assistant principals are mediocre yet they still have jobs. He actually said to me that our district “owed” him because he had been a teacher for many years in Title 1 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one will say they pushed someone out "for no reason." You may not know the reason or consider it valid but if it happened to you, the person had a reason they considered valid.

DP but I’m going to argue with you.

If you have a valid reason to not want someone working for you anymore, you should TELL THEM during regular performance evaluations or other appropriate times so that they have the opportunity to fix it.

If they don’t fix it, you can demote or fire for cause, and they might be mad but not confused because you have been clear with them about expectations and they have refused or been incapable of meeting them.

When people are not up front about their reasons, it’s either because:

(1) They are BAD managers with poor communication skills, who are often passive aggressive and afraid of being direct, because they don’t want to be held responsible for use of their authority. They want to use their authority, they just don’t want to be held responsible for it. Lazy cowards, you know who you are.

(2) Their reasons are invalid. They have a personal conflict with an otherwise good worker and can’t leave it outside the office. They are prejudiced. They want to hire a friend into that role. And so on. They can’t directly express these reasons because they are bad and they know it, so they just passively aggressively make work hell for the person until they quit.

If as a manager you think you have a valid reason to be unhappy with a subordinate, you HAVE to communicate it. It’s a fundamental part of your job. The only reason not to communicate it is if the reason is invalid.

(Some people are devious and do a thing where they make people miserable at work, then say “you seem miserable and that’s a problem” then get rid of them for attitude problems. Diabolical, human beings are actually quite terrible.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one will say they pushed someone out "for no reason." You may not know the reason or consider it valid but if it happened to you, the person had a reason they considered valid.

This. I am a principal in a school and inherited an incompetent assistant principal. He was a nice person, but way in over his head. He took no initiative on anything and had to be prompted to do things. He thought he knew instruction, but didn’t. Wouldn’t talk at meetings. I spent countless hours working with him, setting up systems to support him, provide coaching, etc, and he just wasn’t cutting it. The final straw came when he lied about a project and attempted to blame others. If you were to ask him today (he’s back to being a teacher), the narrative he’s written for himself is that I went after him and that other assistant principals are mediocre yet they still have jobs. He actually said to me that our district “owed” him because he had been a teacher for many years in Title 1 schools.

But did you “push him out” or just provide him with feedback on his poor performance and then replace him when he didn’t improve. It sounds like you had a valid reason and we’re open about it, he just didn’t want to listen. That’s different from a manager who has no negative feedback but just makes work unpleasant so you leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Managers are not always the best employees and they know it. Often times they are jealous of someone under them that possesses skills they do not. From what I have observed in my companies it can be pure jealousy and fear of being exposed as incompetent.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one will say they pushed someone out "for no reason." You may not know the reason or consider it valid but if it happened to you, the person had a reason they considered valid.

DP but I’m going to argue with you.

If you have a valid reason to not want someone working for you anymore, you should TELL THEM during regular performance evaluations or other appropriate times so that they have the opportunity to fix it.

If they don’t fix it, you can demote or fire for cause, and they might be mad but not confused because you have been clear with them about expectations and they have refused or been incapable of meeting them.

When people are not up front about their reasons, it’s either because:

(1) They are BAD managers with poor communication skills, who are often passive aggressive and afraid of being direct, because they don’t want to be held responsible for use of their authority. They want to use their authority, they just don’t want to be held responsible for it. Lazy cowards, you know who you are.

(2) Their reasons are invalid. They have a personal conflict with an otherwise good worker and can’t leave it outside the office. They are prejudiced. They want to hire a friend into that role. And so on. They can’t directly express these reasons because they are bad and they know it, so they just passively aggressively make work hell for the person until they quit.

If as a manager you think you have a valid reason to be unhappy with a subordinate, you HAVE to communicate it. It’s a fundamental part of your job. The only reason not to communicate it is if the reason is invalid.

(Some people are devious and do a thing where they make people miserable at work, then say “you seem miserable and that’s a problem” then get rid of them for attitude problems. Diabolical, human beings are actually quite terrible.)

Different poster here: Sure, everything you posted about being clear about expectations not being met is on point. My favorite line from Brene Brown is “Clear is kind; unclear is unkind.” You have to know that all of that can happen, and an employee can still leave confused or pissed or feeling like they were targeted. Just because someone was demoted or evaluated out doesn’t mean their manager was vindictive and/or incompetent.

AND a manager can be incompetent and not have the maturity or skills to communicate with the struggling employee. It’s way too common.

Bottom line: there are some great managers and some crappy ones. And there are some great employees and some that are crappy or just in the wrong job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one will say they pushed someone out "for no reason." You may not know the reason or consider it valid but if it happened to you, the person had a reason they considered valid.

This. I am a principal in a school and inherited an incompetent assistant principal. He was a nice person, but way in over his head. He took no initiative on anything and had to be prompted to do things. He thought he knew instruction, but didn’t. Wouldn’t talk at meetings. I spent countless hours working with him, setting up systems to support him, provide coaching, etc, and he just wasn’t cutting it. The final straw came when he lied about a project and attempted to blame others. If you were to ask him today (he’s back to being a teacher), the narrative he’s written for himself is that I went after him and that other assistant principals are mediocre yet they still have jobs. He actually said to me that our district “owed” him because he had been a teacher for many years in Title 1 schools.

But did you “push him out” or just provide him with feedback on his poor performance and then replace him when he didn’t improve. It sounds like you had a valid reason and we’re open about it, he just didn’t want to listen. That’s different from a manager who has no negative feedback but just makes work unpleasant so you leave.

The latter, and I have all the documentation to support it. But if you were to talk to him, he would say the former.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I doubt anyone will admit it, even here.

I was pushed out if a job, though less through micromanaging and more through a slow atrophy of my career at the company. My bosses were polite to my face and had no cause to fire me or demote me as I was good at my job and liked by clients. They quietly ignored me, stayed indifferent to my projects, failed to staff me to anything new, until I quit because I was miserable. The silent treatment.

The reason why, I learned later, is that a colleague told them privately that he believed I was a Trump supporter. The irony: I’m not. But for some reason they believed him. They couldn’t ask me about it or do anything officially because that would have been blatantly illegal. So they froze me out, work became miserable (I went in antidepressants and still struggled, this whole thing destroyed my sense of self worth and made me feel like I was going crazy). I tried several times to understand what was going on, and they’d avoid meeting with me directly and then lie and say everything was great.

If I thought it wouldn’t be a miserable experience, I’d sue them. But my mental health improved when I left the job and now I think I have PTSD— I can imagine going through a legal process with them.

I don’t think they’d even admit it, even here, because even putting it somewhere anonymously could expose them to liability. The only reason I know is a former colleague who is in grad school for a career change told me, and she would never testify to it.

People are monsters.

Don’t pursue legal action because there’s nothing illegal here. Hope you find yourself in a better situation now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one will say they pushed someone out "for no reason." You may not know the reason or consider it valid but if it happened to you, the person had a reason they considered valid.

DP but I’m going to argue with you.

If you have a valid reason to not want someone working for you anymore, you should TELL THEM during regular performance evaluations or other appropriate times so that they have the opportunity to fix it.

If they don’t fix it, you can demote or fire for cause, and they might be mad but not confused because you have been clear with them about expectations and they have refused or been incapable of meeting them.

When people are not up front about their reasons, it’s either because:

(1) They are BAD managers with poor communication skills, who are often passive aggressive and afraid of being direct, because they don’t want to be held responsible for use of their authority. They want to use their authority, they just don’t want to be held responsible for it. Lazy cowards, you know who you are.

(2) Their reasons are invalid. They have a personal conflict with an otherwise good worker and can’t leave it outside the office. They are prejudiced. They want to hire a friend into that role. And so on. They can’t directly express these reasons because they are bad and they know it, so they just passively aggressively make work hell for the person until they quit.

If as a manager you think you have a valid reason to be unhappy with a subordinate, you HAVE to communicate it. It’s a fundamental part of your job. The only reason not to communicate it is if the reason is invalid.

(Some people are devious and do a thing where they make people miserable at work, then say “you seem miserable and that’s a problem” then get rid of them for attitude problems. Diabolical, human beings are actually quite terrible.)

Different poster here: Sure, everything you posted about being clear about expectations not being met is on point. My favorite line from Brene Brown is “Clear is kind; unclear is unkind.” You have to know that all of that can happen, and an employee can still leave confused or pissed or feeling like they were targeted. Just because someone was demoted or evaluated out doesn’t mean their manager was vindictive and/or incompetent.

AND a manager can be incompetent and not have the maturity or skills to communicate with the struggling employee. It’s way too common.

Bottom line: there are some great managers and some crappy ones. And there are some great employees and some that are crappy or just in the wrong job.

While this is true, it’s not right to both sides it this way. Because managers have power over employees. If a manager has a crappy employee, or someone just not suited for the job, they have tools at their disposal to do something about it. Unless there is some unique power dynamic (like the employee is married to upper management), the manager has options.

If your manager is incompetent, whether because they are bad at communicating or randomly dislike you or micromanage or whatever, you often have little recourse. There are exceptions, like if you have a union or the company has unusually responsive HR, but usually there is nothing you can do. Unlike the manager, you may just have to leave your job to escape it.

Managing is a responsibility. When managers complain about bad employees, I might empathize with a specific situation, but at the end of the day, that’s just their job— dealing with employees. If someone isn’t working out, as a manager, your literal job is to deal with that. If that’s hard, then maybe the employee isn’t the one in the wrong job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt anyone will admit it, even here.

I was pushed out if a job, though less through micromanaging and more through a slow atrophy of my career at the company. My bosses were polite to my face and had no cause to fire me or demote me as I was good at my job and liked by clients. They quietly ignored me, stayed indifferent to my projects, failed to staff me to anything new, until I quit because I was miserable. The silent treatment.

The reason why, I learned later, is that a colleague told them privately that he believed I was a Trump supporter. The irony: I’m not. But for some reason they believed him. They couldn’t ask me about it or do anything officially because that would have been blatantly illegal. So they froze me out, work became miserable (I went in antidepressants and still struggled, this whole thing destroyed my sense of self worth and made me feel like I was going crazy). I tried several times to understand what was going on, and they’d avoid meeting with me directly and then lie and say everything was great.

If I thought it wouldn’t be a miserable experience, I’d sue them. But my mental health improved when I left the job and now I think I have PTSD— I can imagine going through a legal process with them.

I don’t think they’d even admit it, even here, because even putting it somewhere anonymously could expose them to liability. The only reason I know is a former colleague who is in grad school for a career change told me, and she would never testify to it.

People are monsters.

Don’t pursue legal action because there’s nothing illegal here. Hope you find yourself in a better situation now.

It’s illegal to discriminate against employees for their political beliefs.