Official Abortion Thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So not one person will think to herself...
Hmmm, if we have sex this weekend, we might make a baby. So maybe we better not, because we’re not ready for a baby.

Some of you are ridiculous with your narrative.

Exactly. It seems that personal responsibility is such a foreign idea to so many people today. Maybe they go into traffic behaving the same way; that if they take a wrong turn or misinterpret the traffic signs they should just be allowed to kill other drivers and be forgiven for it.

Yo dumbass. All the personal responsibility in the world isn't going to protect an underaged child from rape, isn't going to magically correct a fatal ectopic pregnancy or fetal brain defect. Stop blaming the victims and forcing your uninformed, moronic idiocy on them.

Pulling the rape card in front of well informed and prepared pro-life crowd makes you sound incredibly uninformed, intellectually lazy, and downright stupid. But for the millionth time here it is: we know from years of tracking abortions that less than 1% are done for rape/incest, small percentage are done for fetal/maternal health issues, and overwhelming majority (>90%) out of personal convenience. So, we have been arguing against the use of that majority out of convenience this entire time. We know that overwhelming majority of women in America with unintended pregnancies are not victims as you claim, they are willing participants in sex. Yes, we think that consenting adults have personal responsibility to prevent unintended pregnancy. But you just kind of parachuted stupidly in the midst of this discussion and think that calling someone names makes you look smart and informed. When you are too lazy to look up statistical evidence and find out what the discussion is really about you lose any credibility and sound like a moron that cannot be taken seriously.

"pulling the rape card," really??? and LOL at a pro-lifer claiming to be better informed and more honest about statistics.

we talk about rape because it's one horrific scenario that happens repeatedly, requiring abortion -- and you want to force them to have the babies.

and you think you're making some kind of great gotcha point that most abortions are not due to rape?

god, you're dumb. and malevolent. what a horrible combo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very responsible to get an abortion rather than birth a child you are not equipt to raise.

I don't get this argument.

Sex is like driving. There is no guarantee you will come out unaffected. That is why you take driving lessons, learn about traffic regulations, and use maximum precautions not to get into an accident and become disabled. In other words, you prepare and take personal responsibility. You also do not have to drive. It is not necessary for your survival. You could argue it is indispensable but you cannot argue that it is absolutely necessary. So, you can make other arrangements. You can absolutely prevent injury and death in traffic.

Sometimes the other driver is at fault. Accidents happen, and we fix the damage. If I get in a car accident, my insurance pays to fix the damage and it gets repaired. Or I pay.

If there is a birth control failure, we fix it to get the outcome we want.

This analogy is not working the way you want.

Yes, sometimes's is other driver's fault. But you know this and accept it going in. But you can choose not to drive. You can make other arrangements. There are fatal and disabling car accidents. Those are the ones that matter. Getting a payout is a small consolation if you are dead or in wheelchair.

Most cars are manufacturer tested under more rigorous circumstances than accidents. Only after they have passed rigorous tests cars (and other machines/tools) are released to market. Overwhelming majority of cars don't randomly combust or cause accidents. It is not manufacturer's fault that you haven't read the manual and test driven the car to know how to properly use breaks, signal, etc. It's people not taking personal responsibility that cause accidents (small percentages caused by natural disasters are exempt from this discussion).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very responsible to get an abortion rather than birth a child you are not equipt to raise.

I don't get this argument.

If you are not equipped to raise a child, it is more responsible not to conceive said child. It is responsible to use birth control and contraception to control your body. In the rare instance that your birth control fails, the rare instance you are raped and conceive a child, or the rare instance you conceive a defective fetus, abortion is available. Make abortion for rare circumstances not for irresponsible people.

you keep on making this argument. "punish the irresponsible womem by making them have babies" is never going to be a winner for you. so go ahead, keep at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very responsible to get an abortion rather than birth a child you are not equipt to raise.

I don't get this argument.

Sex is like driving. There is no guarantee you will come out unaffected. That is why you take driving lessons, learn about traffic regulations, and use maximum precautions not to get into an accident and become disabled. In other words, you prepare and take personal responsibility. You also do not have to drive. It is not necessary for your survival. You could argue it is indispensable but you cannot argue that it is absolutely necessary. So, you can make other arrangements. You can absolutely prevent injury and death in traffic.

Sometimes the other driver is at fault. Accidents happen, and we fix the damage. If I get in a car accident, my insurance pays to fix the damage and it gets repaired. Or I pay.

If there is a birth control failure, we fix it to get the outcome we want.

This analogy is not working the way you want.

Yes, sometimes's is other driver's fault. But you know this and accept it going in. But you can choose not to drive. You can make other arrangements. There are fatal and disabling car accidents. Those are the ones that matter. Getting a payout is a small consolation if you are dead or in wheelchair.

Most cars are manufacturer tested under more rigorous circumstances than accidents. Only after they have passed rigorous tests cars (and other machines/tools) are released to market. Overwhelming majority of cars don't randomly combust or cause accidents. It is not manufacturer's fault that you haven't read the manual and test driven the car to know how to properly use breaks, signal, etc. It's people not taking personal responsibility that cause accidents (small percentages caused by natural disasters are exempt from this discussion).

so all men need to get mandatory vasectomies at 15 because their sperm causes accidental pregnancy. got it.
ps your stupid-ass metaphor doesn't work. no-fault insurance exists for a reason.

[Anonymous]

I'm not going to skip work because I am afraid I might get in a car accident. I accept the risk and deal with the consequences. If my car is broken, I repair it. And like the pp said, no fault insurance exists for this reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not going to skip work because I am afraid I might get in a car accident. I accept the risk and deal with the consequences. If my car is broken, I repair it. And like the pp said, no fault insurance exists for this reason.

Right. But we are only debating fatal and disabling car accidents caused by the lack of personal responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Pro-lifers can carry on with their nonsense, but abortion will always be available to the rich and middle class. Just a fact. Deal with it.

[Anonymous]

It all really boils down to those religious fanatics who believe abortion is wrong in all or almost all circumstances and those who do not. Those opposed want to impose their beliefs on others through the legal system. These Catholics and Evangelicals are the new Puritans who want this country to be a theocracy. And, by the way, look at what happened in Ireland which had largely been a theocracy and voters overwhelmingly overturned the criminalization of abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not going to skip work because I am afraid I might get in a car accident. I accept the risk and deal with the consequences. If my car is broken, I repair it. And like the pp said, no fault insurance exists for this reason.

Right. But we are only debating fatal and disabling car accidents caused by the lack of personal responsibility.

I'm embarrassed for you sticking doggedly to that loser of a metaphor.

Pro tip: people don't lose fundamental civil rights because a subset of people think their behavior is irresponsible. It's a bad argument, legally, ethically, and in the real-world context of how people live their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very responsible to get an abortion rather than birth a child you are not equipt to raise.

I don't get this argument.

If you are not equipped to raise a child, it is more responsible not to conceive said child. It is responsible to use birth control and contraception to control your body. In the rare instance that your birth control fails, the rare instance you are raped and conceive a child, or the rare instance you conceive a defective fetus, abortion is available. Make abortion for rare circumstances not for irresponsible people.

you keep on making this argument. "punish the irresponsible womem by making them have babies" is never going to be a winner for you. so go ahead, keep at it.

+1

Stupid argument

[Anonymous]

No female age 18 or under should ever be forced to have a baby. I know as I was raped and parents pulled "innocent baby" crap. What about their innocent daughter? I had the bastard, put it out for adoption, left home and never spoke to parents again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It all really boils down to those religious fanatics who believe abortion is wrong in all or almost all circumstances and those who do not. Those opposed want to impose their beliefs on others through the legal system. These Catholics and Evangelicals are the new Puritans who want this country to be a theocracy. And, by the way, look at what happened in Ireland which had largely been a theocracy and voters overwhelmingly overturned the criminalization of abortion.

I agree with this. Recent elections have swung some state so far to the right, so that when RvW gets challenged again at the SCOTUS level it may devolve into a state level decision. States like Nevada, Vermont, California, New York etc. will codify women’s reproductive freedom into their state’s constitutions, and ending the argument; while states like Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Missouri etc. will codify pro life language into their state constitutions, ending the right to abortion there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So not one person will think to herself...
Hmmm, if we have sex this weekend, we might make a baby. So maybe we better not, because we’re not ready for a baby.

Some of you are ridiculous with your narrative.

Exactly. It seems that personal responsibility is such a foreign idea to so many people today. Maybe they go into traffic behaving the same way; that if they take a wrong turn or misinterpret the traffic signs they should just be allowed to kill other drivers and be forgiven for it.

Yo dumbass. All the personal responsibility in the world isn't going to protect an underaged child from rape, isn't going to magically correct a fatal ectopic pregnancy or fetal brain defect. Stop blaming the victims and forcing your uninformed, moronic idiocy on them.

Pulling the rape card in front of well informed and prepared pro-life crowd makes you sound incredibly uninformed, intellectually lazy, and downright stupid. But for the millionth time here it is: we know from years of tracking abortions that less than 1% are done for rape/incest, small percentage are done for fetal/maternal health issues, and overwhelming majority (>90%) out of personal convenience. So, we have been arguing against the use of that majority out of convenience this entire time. We know that overwhelming majority of women in America with unintended pregnancies are not victims as you claim, they are willing participants in sex. Yes, we think that consenting adults have personal responsibility to prevent unintended pregnancy. But you just kind of parachuted stupidly in the midst of this discussion and think that calling someone names makes you look smart and informed. When you are too lazy to look up statistical evidence and find out what the discussion is really about you lose any credibility and sound like a moron that cannot be taken seriously.

You “prolifers”are really in a bind because either you have to say that you view conceptions made via rape as less worthy human potential than conceptions made through consensual sex, so you’re okay with aborting them (without resorting to the language of murder and innocent babies) - in other words you only truly care about the mode of conception and whether it meets your moral standards. Or else you have to be rigid and say no exceptions at all, thus putting yourselves in the uncomfortable and hugely unpopular position of forcing a 12 year old baby to give birth. Which most people would say only a monster would do. Doesn’t matter how few 12 year olds get pregnant a year, forcing a single 12 year old baby to go through pregnancy is monstrous.

[Anonymous]

Forcing any women to do something against her will is monsterous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So not one person will think to herself...
Hmmm, if we have sex this weekend, we might make a baby. So maybe we better not, because we’re not ready for a baby.

Some of you are ridiculous with your narrative.

Exactly. It seems that personal responsibility is such a foreign idea to so many people today. Maybe they go into traffic behaving the same way; that if they take a wrong turn or misinterpret the traffic signs they should just be allowed to kill other drivers and be forgiven for it.

Yo dumbass. All the personal responsibility in the world isn't going to protect an underaged child from rape, isn't going to magically correct a fatal ectopic pregnancy or fetal brain defect. Stop blaming the victims and forcing your uninformed, moronic idiocy on them.

Pulling the rape card in front of well informed and prepared pro-life crowd makes you sound incredibly uninformed, intellectually lazy, and downright stupid. But for the millionth time here it is: we know from years of tracking abortions that less than 1% are done for rape/incest, small percentage are done for fetal/maternal health issues, and overwhelming majority (>90%) out of personal convenience. So, we have been arguing against the use of that majority out of convenience this entire time. We know that overwhelming majority of women in America with unintended pregnancies are not victims as you claim, they are willing participants in sex. Yes, we think that consenting adults have personal responsibility to prevent unintended pregnancy. But you just kind of parachuted stupidly in the midst of this discussion and think that calling someone names makes you look smart and informed. When you are too lazy to look up statistical evidence and find out what the discussion is really about you lose any credibility and sound like a moron that cannot be taken seriously.

Those are stats from a very flawed, very limited, decades-old Guttmacher study. However if you insist on using it then how about including one of their other key findings from that study, that 46% of abortions were due to not having contraception. Now, correlate that with the 42% reduction in abortions in Colorado as a function of providing free contraceptives.

How about getting on board with providing free contraceptives to anyone who needs them? That alone would have far better results where it comes to significantly reducing abortions than the idiocy and criminalization that the pro-lifers are trying to push.

Plus, it's fiscally responsible. The Guttmacher study found that a large percentage of abortions were because the mother could not afford to have children. That means WIC, likely food stamps, rent subsidies and other supports at great taxpayer expense that would be avoided. Or the cost of giving the child up, which likely means putting the child into foster care because the reality of it is that there are nowhere near enough families adopting. The cost of providing contraceptives for free is significantly lower than all of those social safety net services that would have to be provided. Any fiscal conservative should be wholly on board with it.

Free contraceptives. That is your best plan.