Soi.....Who is pulling out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know it's hard to keep up to date on the latest, but here it is from June. COVID is worse for kids than the flu:

Columbia University researchers and colleagues determined that, while death was uncommon, infection with SARS-CoV-2 produced more symptoms and complications than seasonal influenza.

The study, which was published online in the journal Pediatrics, also found wide variation in how children and adolescents hospitalized with COVID-19 were treated.

In response to views that ranged from COVID-19 in children and adolescents being no more than the common flu to a significant danger to lesser-developed immune systems, the Observational Health Data Sciences and Informatics (OHDSI) global network, which is based at Columbia, gathered real-world observational data on more than 242,000 children and adolescents diagnosed with COVID-19, including nearly 10,000 hospitalized youths. They then compared that information to more than 2 million in that cohort diagnosed with influenza across five countries—France, Germany, South Korea, Spain, and the United States.

The study team determined that neurodevelopmental disorders, heart disease, and cancer were more common among hospitalized patients versus those just diagnosed with COVID-19. The researchers also report that dyspnea, bronchiolitis, anosmia, and gastrointestinal symptoms were more common in COVID-19 than influenza.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2021/05/28/peds.2020-042929

I realize you posted this as a statement about flu versus covid, but it also provides info on likelihood of severe covid among kids:

Hospitalization was observed in 0.3% to 1.3% of the COVID-19 diagnosed cohort, with undetectable (N<5 per database) 30-day fatality. (That's out of 242,158 covid cases in kids).

People are on here saying COVID is the same as the flu for kids. It is not the same, it's worse. That's my point.

What I forgot to include was the conclusion from the AAP publication: "Complications including hospitalization, hypoxemia and pneumonia were more frequent in children/adolescents with COVID-19 than with influenza."

The issue with this is the lack of a baseline risk. This suggests that once you get hospitalized for covid (already rare, according to the study), you are more likely to have complications than complications with the flu. But the complications are also rare for flu and covid.

We are talking about multiplying small percents by small percents, which gives you a really small percent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know it's hard to keep up to date on the latest, but here it is from June. COVID is worse for kids than the flu:

Columbia University researchers and colleagues determined that, while death was uncommon, infection with SARS-CoV-2 produced more symptoms and complications than seasonal influenza.

The study, which was published online in the journal Pediatrics, also found wide variation in how children and adolescents hospitalized with COVID-19 were treated.

In response to views that ranged from COVID-19 in children and adolescents being no more than the common flu to a significant danger to lesser-developed immune systems, the Observational Health Data Sciences and Informatics (OHDSI) global network, which is based at Columbia, gathered real-world observational data on more than 242,000 children and adolescents diagnosed with COVID-19, including nearly 10,000 hospitalized youths. They then compared that information to more than 2 million in that cohort diagnosed with influenza across five countries—France, Germany, South Korea, Spain, and the United States.

The study team determined that neurodevelopmental disorders, heart disease, and cancer were more common among hospitalized patients versus those just diagnosed with COVID-19. The researchers also report that dyspnea, bronchiolitis, anosmia, and gastrointestinal symptoms were more common in COVID-19 than influenza.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2021/05/28/peds.2020-042929

I realize you posted this as a statement about flu versus covid, but it also provides info on likelihood of severe covid among kids:

Hospitalization was observed in 0.3% to 1.3% of the COVID-19 diagnosed cohort, with undetectable (N<5 per database) 30-day fatality. (That's out of 242,158 covid cases in kids).

People are on here saying COVID is the same as the flu for kids. It is not the same, it's worse. That's my point.

What I forgot to include was the conclusion from the AAP publication: "Complications including hospitalization, hypoxemia and pneumonia were more frequent in children/adolescents with COVID-19 than with influenza."

One person said that. Another quote an article that was quoting infectious disease specialists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know it's hard to keep up to date on the latest, but here it is from June. COVID is worse for kids than the flu:

Columbia University researchers and colleagues determined that, while death was uncommon, infection with SARS-CoV-2 produced more symptoms and complications than seasonal influenza.

The study, which was published online in the journal Pediatrics, also found wide variation in how children and adolescents hospitalized with COVID-19 were treated.

In response to views that ranged from COVID-19 in children and adolescents being no more than the common flu to a significant danger to lesser-developed immune systems, the Observational Health Data Sciences and Informatics (OHDSI) global network, which is based at Columbia, gathered real-world observational data on more than 242,000 children and adolescents diagnosed with COVID-19, including nearly 10,000 hospitalized youths. They then compared that information to more than 2 million in that cohort diagnosed with influenza across five countries—France, Germany, South Korea, Spain, and the United States.

The study team determined that neurodevelopmental disorders, heart disease, and cancer were more common among hospitalized patients versus those just diagnosed with COVID-19. The researchers also report that dyspnea, bronchiolitis, anosmia, and gastrointestinal symptoms were more common in COVID-19 than influenza.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2021/05/28/peds.2020-042929

I realize you posted this as a statement about flu versus covid, but it also provides info on likelihood of severe covid among kids:

Hospitalization was observed in 0.3% to 1.3% of the COVID-19 diagnosed cohort, with undetectable (N<5 per database) 30-day fatality. (That's out of 242,158 covid cases in kids).

People are on here saying COVID is the same as the flu for kids. It is not the same, it's worse. That's my point.

What I forgot to include was the conclusion from the AAP publication: "Complications including hospitalization, hypoxemia and pneumonia were more frequent in children/adolescents with COVID-19 than with influenza."

The issue with this is the lack of a baseline risk. This suggests that once you get hospitalized for covid (already rare, according to the study), you are more likely to have complications than complications with the flu. But the complications are also rare for flu and covid.

We are talking about multiplying small percents by small percents, which gives you a really small percent.

I want to point out that the infectious disease specialists in the WP article said covid was in the "same ballpark" of risk as flu; this study does confirm that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know it's hard to keep up to date on the latest, but here it is from June. COVID is worse for kids than the flu:

Columbia University researchers and colleagues determined that, while death was uncommon, infection with SARS-CoV-2 produced more symptoms and complications than seasonal influenza.

The study, which was published online in the journal Pediatrics, also found wide variation in how children and adolescents hospitalized with COVID-19 were treated.

In response to views that ranged from COVID-19 in children and adolescents being no more than the common flu to a significant danger to lesser-developed immune systems, the Observational Health Data Sciences and Informatics (OHDSI) global network, which is based at Columbia, gathered real-world observational data on more than 242,000 children and adolescents diagnosed with COVID-19, including nearly 10,000 hospitalized youths. They then compared that information to more than 2 million in that cohort diagnosed with influenza across five countries—France, Germany, South Korea, Spain, and the United States.

The study team determined that neurodevelopmental disorders, heart disease, and cancer were more common among hospitalized patients versus those just diagnosed with COVID-19. The researchers also report that dyspnea, bronchiolitis, anosmia, and gastrointestinal symptoms were more common in COVID-19 than influenza.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2021/05/28/peds.2020-042929

Since another poster mentioned it, this study looks at kids under 18. The risk to kids 12-18 is much like adults. So we might conclude that if you eliminate that group of kids from the study you'd see even lower numbers for hospitalization/death from covid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know it's hard to keep up to date on the latest, but here it is from June. COVID is worse for kids than the flu:

Columbia University researchers and colleagues determined that, while death was uncommon, infection with SARS-CoV-2 produced more symptoms and complications than seasonal influenza.

The study, which was published online in the journal Pediatrics, also found wide variation in how children and adolescents hospitalized with COVID-19 were treated.

In response to views that ranged from COVID-19 in children and adolescents being no more than the common flu to a significant danger to lesser-developed immune systems, the Observational Health Data Sciences and Informatics (OHDSI) global network, which is based at Columbia, gathered real-world observational data on more than 242,000 children and adolescents diagnosed with COVID-19, including nearly 10,000 hospitalized youths. They then compared that information to more than 2 million in that cohort diagnosed with influenza across five countries—France, Germany, South Korea, Spain, and the United States.

The study team determined that neurodevelopmental disorders, heart disease, and cancer were more common among hospitalized patients versus those just diagnosed with COVID-19. The researchers also report that dyspnea, bronchiolitis, anosmia, and gastrointestinal symptoms were more common in COVID-19 than influenza.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2021/05/28/peds.2020-042929

Since another poster mentioned it, this study looks at kids under 18. The risk to kids 12-18 is much like adults. So we might conclude that if you eliminate that group of kids from the study you'd see even lower numbers for hospitalization/death from covid.

thank you for all these good points. for those of us who can actually look at the data and understand the low risk - please PLEASE disseminate this knowledge in your school communities, here on DCUM, any parent groups you are in. Otherwise people are going to far overestimate the risk of delta to kids and put the school year at risk.

[Anonymous]

I just really want to understand the risk of Long Covid to a kid who gets regular, mild Covid. My (limited) research has not found me answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just really want to understand the risk of Long Covid to a kid who gets regular, mild Covid. My (limited) research has not found me answers.

Yes, that is exactly the question that the most cautious parents would like answered before we drop our kids off for mandatory in-person school in five weeks.
Between 0.5 and 25%. Not even bothering with links to studies, because the range is so ridiculously broad so far.
Weirdly, we (I) keep saying/thinking "data from the UK will tell us soon," but we might actually fully caught up with them because we are slightly less vaccinated and we test a lot less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just really want to understand the risk of Long Covid to a kid who gets regular, mild Covid. My (limited) research has not found me answers.

How can there be? It seems unlikely there would be an issue given most adults with long Covid are symptomatic not that long after getting it and it just never fully goes away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just really want to understand the risk of Long Covid to a kid who gets regular, mild Covid. My (limited) research has not found me answers.

Yes, that is exactly the question that the most cautious parents would like answered before we drop our kids off for mandatory in-person school in five weeks.
Between 0.5 and 25%. Not even bothering with links to studies, because the range is so ridiculously broad so far.
Weirdly, we (I) keep saying/thinking "data from the UK will tell us soon," but we might actually fully caught up with them because we are slightly less vaccinated and we test a lot less.

So, what would you like come fall? A fully remote option, hybrid for everyone? We aren't going to have a vaccine nor evidence on long covid given kids are often not symptomatic at all and we would have to wait a year or more to know if that lasts or something comes up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just really want to understand the risk of Long Covid to a kid who gets regular, mild Covid. My (limited) research has not found me answers.

How can there be? It seems unlikely there would be an issue given most adults with long Covid are symptomatic not that long after getting it and it just never fully goes away.

I know 2 different people with weird, significant issues right now whose doctors think may be Long Covid, when neither person was aware of having Covid.

Those are just anecdotes, but are concerning. Which is why I wish there were real data. (And do whatever Long Covid numbers exist now even count people who were never diagnosed with Covid?! Presumably they are only counting symptomatic Covid people in the first place.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just really want to understand the risk of Long Covid to a kid who gets regular, mild Covid. My (limited) research has not found me answers.

Yes, that is exactly the question that the most cautious parents would like answered before we drop our kids off for mandatory in-person school in five weeks.
Between 0.5 and 25%. Not even bothering with links to studies, because the range is so ridiculously broad so far.
Weirdly, we (I) keep saying/thinking "data from the UK will tell us soon," but we might actually fully caught up with them because we are slightly less vaccinated and we test a lot less.

So, what would you like come fall? A fully remote option, hybrid for everyone? We aren't going to have a vaccine nor evidence on long covid given kids are often not symptomatic at all and we would have to wait a year or more to know if that lasts or something comes up.

I'm the first PP. I want full-time school with masks and other reasonable precautions (like open the windows!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just really want to understand the risk of Long Covid to a kid who gets regular, mild Covid. My (limited) research has not found me answers.

Yes, that is exactly the question that the most cautious parents would like answered before we drop our kids off for mandatory in-person school in five weeks.
Between 0.5 and 25%. Not even bothering with links to studies, because the range is so ridiculously broad so far.
Weirdly, we (I) keep saying/thinking "data from the UK will tell us soon," but we might actually fully caught up with them because we are slightly less vaccinated and we test a lot less.

So, what would you like come fall? A fully remote option, hybrid for everyone? We aren't going to have a vaccine nor evidence on long covid given kids are often not symptomatic at all and we would have to wait a year or more to know if that lasts or something comes up.

I'm the first PP. I want full-time school with masks and other reasonable precautions (like open the windows!).

[Same person here], but, to add, I am worried about the contagiousness of Delta. I don't want my child to Coid; I worry about Long Covid; and I really want a normal school year.

It's hard to know what's right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just really want to understand the risk of Long Covid to a kid who gets regular, mild Covid. My (limited) research has not found me answers.

Yes, that is exactly the question that the most cautious parents would like answered before we drop our kids off for mandatory in-person school in five weeks.
Between 0.5 and 25%. Not even bothering with links to studies, because the range is so ridiculously broad so far.
Weirdly, we (I) keep saying/thinking "data from the UK will tell us soon," but we might actually fully caught up with them because we are slightly less vaccinated and we test a lot less.

So, what would you like come fall? A fully remote option, hybrid for everyone? We aren't going to have a vaccine nor evidence on long covid given kids are often not symptomatic at all and we would have to wait a year or more to know if that lasts or something comes up.

I'm the first PP. I want full-time school with masks and other reasonable precautions (like open the windows!).

NP but I really think open windows will be important. I know HVAC systems are good but I feel like opening all windows possible for as long as possible can be really effective. Throw in some fans for good measure! Keep that air circulating and keep getting fresh air into the rooms!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just really want to understand the risk of Long Covid to a kid who gets regular, mild Covid. My (limited) research has not found me answers.

How can there be? It seems unlikely there would be an issue given most adults with long Covid are symptomatic not that long after getting it and it just never fully goes away.

I know 2 different people with weird, significant issues right now whose doctors think may be Long Covid, when neither person was aware of having Covid.

Those are just anecdotes, but are concerning. Which is why I wish there were real data. (And do whatever Long Covid numbers exist now even count people who were never diagnosed with Covid?! Presumably they are only counting symptomatic Covid people in the first place.)[b]

There have to be huge numbers of kids who had Covid, were never diagnosed, and therefore aren’t factored into the denominator, which leads to the percentage of those who allegedly end up with “Long Covid” in those studies being vastly inflated. We are not seeing an epidemic of kids with unexplained debilitating symptoms that stem from undiagnosed Covid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just really want to understand the risk of Long Covid to a kid who gets regular, mild Covid. My (limited) research has not found me answers.

Yes, that is exactly the question that the most cautious parents would like answered before we drop our kids off for mandatory in-person school in five weeks.
Between 0.5 and 25%. Not even bothering with links to studies, because the range is so ridiculously broad so far.
Weirdly, we (I) keep saying/thinking "data from the UK will tell us soon," but we might actually fully caught up with them because we are slightly less vaccinated and we test a lot less.

So, what would you like come fall? A fully remote option, hybrid for everyone? We aren't going to have a vaccine nor evidence on long covid given kids are often not symptomatic at all and we would have to wait a year or more to know if that lasts or something comes up.

I'm the first PP. I want full-time school with masks and other reasonable precautions (like open the windows!).

NP but I really think open windows will be important. I know HVAC systems are good but I feel like opening all windows possible for as long as possible can be really effective. Throw in some fans for good measure! Keep that air circulating and keep getting fresh air into the rooms!

Agree. I also don’t understand why they can’t get one of those hepa filter machines that some doctors offices use for every classroom, instead of wasting money on devices for ineffective virtual instruction.