Ellen Page announced new identity as Elliott Page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the wide-eyed responses here are just wild. If you can read at an 8th grade level or name all the Kardashians, you sure as hell have the mental capacity to comprehend gender identity.

To pretend otherwise is just willful ignorance.

How much do you expect people to know about an unrelated to them topic?

Ellen is now Elliot and wants to referred as he/them. That's all I need to know.

I'd appreciate all the education and awareness campaign, but there is only so much time for me to be deeply engrossed into all the topics/minority issues. My kid has some special needs, and I don't expect people to learn about those issues on their volition or to know much about the condition. I talk, and explain, and try to educate. Thus, I appreciate the PPs and their labor.

This sentiment is not directed at people who were unaware of the terminology and open to learning. It was a response to the “well I guess trans means whatever they want it to mean” and the “why be trans when you can just be a butch lesbian” commenters.

[Anonymous]

And lest anyone assume this is a new phenomenon, pbs has a handy map where you can see trans/non-binary/etc in cultures all over the world at various points in history. From the website:

On nearly every continent, and for all of recorded history, thriving cultures have recognized, revered, and integrated more than two genders. Terms such as “transgender” and “gay” are strictly new constructs that assume three things: that there are only two sexes (male/female), as many as two sexualities (gay/straight), and only two genders (man/woman).

Yet hundreds of distinct societies around the globe have their own long-established traditions for third, fourth, fifth, or more genders. The subject of Two Spirits, Fred Martinez, for example, was not a boy who wanted to be a girl, but both a boy and a girl — an identity his Navajo culture recognized and revered as nádleehí. Meanwhile, Hina of Kumu Hina is part of a a native Hawaiian culture that has traditionally revered and respected mahu, those who embody both male and female spirit.

Most Western societies have no direct correlation for this tradition, nor for the many other communities without strict either/or conceptions of sex, sexuality, and gender. Worldwide, the sheer variety of gender expression is almost limitless. Take a tour and learn how other cultures see gender diversity.

https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/

[Anonymous]

Here is something I don't understand. Eliot Page is a he/him. How is he also queer? If he likes women, how is he queer?

His post says he is transgender and queer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the wide-eyed responses here are just wild. If you can read at an 8th grade level or name all the Kardashians, you sure as hell have the mental capacity to comprehend gender identity.

To pretend otherwise is just willful ignorance.

The people on this thread asking questions are not people who give a fig about the Kardashians.

The truth is most of this gender stuff makes little sense. You are born with a biological sex. It is based on your chromosomes. What does it mean to be a man or a woman beyond that? What does it mean to say you know you are a different gender than what your chromosomes indicate? Separate from biological sex most ways we define gender are a bunch of made up bullshit that varies from culture to culture. People who pretend this is cut and dried are full of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the wide-eyed responses here are just wild. If you can read at an 8th grade level or name all the Kardashians, you sure as hell have the mental capacity to comprehend gender identity.

To pretend otherwise is just willful ignorance.

The people on this thread asking questions are not people who give a fig about the Kardashians.

The truth is most of this gender stuff makes little sense. You are born with a biological sex. It is based on your chromosomes. What does it mean to be a man or a woman beyond that? What does it mean to say you know you are a different gender than what your chromosomes indicate? Separate from biological sex most ways we define gender are a bunch of made up bullshit that varies from culture to culture. People who pretend this is cut and dried are full of it.

So when you assign a term to what you so articulately define as “made up bullshit” or the social construction of gender, then you have all the terminology people are discussing in this thread.

It’s not “cut and dried” but I bet a middle schooler could explain it to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And lest anyone assume this is a new phenomenon, pbs has a handy map where you can see trans/non-binary/etc in cultures all over the world at various points in history. From the website:

On nearly every continent, and for all of recorded history, thriving cultures have recognized, revered, and integrated more than two genders. Terms such as “transgender” and “gay” are strictly new constructs that assume three things: that there are only two sexes (male/female), as many as two sexualities (gay/straight), and only two genders (man/woman).

Yet hundreds of distinct societies around the globe have their own long-established traditions for third, fourth, fifth, or more genders. The subject of Two Spirits, Fred Martinez, for example, was not a boy who wanted to be a girl, but both a boy and a girl — an identity his Navajo culture recognized and revered as nádleehí. Meanwhile, Hina of Kumu Hina is part of a a native Hawaiian culture that has traditionally revered and respected mahu, those who embody both male and female spirit.

Most Western societies have no direct correlation for this tradition, nor for the many other communities without strict either/or conceptions of sex, sexuality, and gender. Worldwide, the sheer variety of gender expression is almost limitless. Take a tour and learn how other cultures see gender diversity.

https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/

This is a great link. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

I completely support his decision and hope doing so in the public eye makes it easier for others who walk the same path. That said, I am surprised by the news. I don’t mean this in a judgmental way whatsoever, but I wonder what the evolution was from identifying as a lesbian to a man. It’s also surprising to have seen “Ellen” once so feminine, earlier in her career. Again, happy for him and supportive of him, I just find it a bit surprising to process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the wide-eyed responses here are just wild. If you can read at an 8th grade level or name all the Kardashians, you sure as hell have the mental capacity to comprehend gender identity.

To pretend otherwise is just willful ignorance.

The people on this thread asking questions are not people who give a fig about the Kardashians.

The truth is most of this gender stuff makes little sense. You are born with a biological sex. It is based on your chromosomes. What does it mean to be a man or a woman beyond that? What does it mean to say you know you are a different gender than what your chromosomes indicate? Separate from biological sex most ways we define gender are a bunch of made up bullshit that varies from culture to culture. People who pretend this is cut and dried are full of it.

So when you assign a term to what you so articulately define as “made up bullshit” or the social construction of gender, then you have all the terminology people are discussing in this thread.

It’s not “cut and dried” but I bet a middle schooler could explain it to you.

Nope. People on this little thread are arguing about terminology. Clearly there is not one handbook every is following. But people like you have no problem insulting people for not knowing what you have deemed obvious. It makes you feel superior, I suppose.

To be clear, we are not talking about anything but gender here. What does it mean to be a “man”? What does it mean to be a “woman”? If it is divorced from biological sex, the answer will vary from culture to culture and from person to person. If you really delve into it, you could argue it is fairly meaningless. Why can’t a woman call herself Elliot? Non-binary makes perfect sense to me. Trans doesn’t. Why even pick a gender, really. Truthfully the world would be a better place if we acknowledged sex for health reasons only and didn’t concern ourselves with gender.

[Anonymous]

I think E.P. screwed up their career. No one will hire him. Why not just stay gay?

[Anonymous]

Transformers more than meets the eye

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The people on this thread asking questions are not people who give a fig about the Kardashians.

The truth is most of this gender stuff makes little sense. You are born with a biological sex. It is based on your chromosomes. What does it mean to be a man or a woman beyond that? What does it mean to say you know you are a different gender than what your chromosomes indicate? Separate from biological sex most ways we define gender are a bunch of made up bullshit that varies from culture to culture. People who pretend this is cut and dried are full of it.

So when you assign a term to what you so articulately define as “made up bullshit” or the social construction of gender, then you have all the terminology people are discussing in this thread.

It’s not “cut and dried” but I bet a middle schooler could explain it to you.

Nope. People on this little thread are arguing about terminology. Clearly there is not one handbook every is following. But people like you have no problem insulting people for not knowing what you have deemed obvious. It makes you feel superior, I suppose.

To be clear, we are not talking about anything but gender here. What does it mean to be a “man”? What does it mean to be a “woman”? If it is divorced from biological sex, the answer will vary from culture to culture and from person to person. If you really delve into it, you could argue it is fairly meaningless. Why can’t a woman call herself Elliot? Non-binary makes perfect sense to me. Trans doesn’t. Why even pick a gender, really. Truthfully the world would be a better place if we acknowledged sex for health reasons only and didn’t concern ourselves with gender.

I don’t see people arguing about terminology on this thread at all. There are people asking what terminology means and others providing the definitions. Then there are people, like you, arguing that the defined terminology doesn’t make sense TO YOU and therefore you deem them meaningless. Which is, as I stated earlier, willful ignorance. If the shoe fits...

[Anonymous]

Publicity stunt from washed up actress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The people on this thread asking questions are not people who give a fig about the Kardashians.

The truth is most of this gender stuff makes little sense. You are born with a biological sex. It is based on your chromosomes. What does it mean to be a man or a woman beyond that? What does it mean to say you know you are a different gender than what your chromosomes indicate? Separate from biological sex most ways we define gender are a bunch of made up bullshit that varies from culture to culture. People who pretend this is cut and dried are full of it.

So when you assign a term to what you so articulately define as “made up bullshit” or the social construction of gender, then you have all the terminology people are discussing in this thread.

It’s not “cut and dried” but I bet a middle schooler could explain it to you.

Nope. People on this little thread are arguing about terminology. Clearly there is not one handbook every is following. But people like you have no problem insulting people for not knowing what you have deemed obvious. It makes you feel superior, I suppose.

To be clear, we are not talking about anything but gender here. What does it mean to be a “man”? What does it mean to be a “woman”? If it is divorced from biological sex, the answer will vary from culture to culture and from person to person. If you really delve into it, you could argue it is fairly meaningless. Why can’t a woman call herself Elliot? Non-binary makes perfect sense to me. Trans doesn’t. Why even pick a gender, really. Truthfully the world would be a better place if we acknowledged sex for health reasons only and didn’t concern ourselves with gender.

I don’t see people arguing about terminology on this thread at all. There are people asking what terminology means and others providing the definitions. Then there are people, like you, arguing that the defined terminology doesn’t make sense TO YOU and therefore you deem them meaningless. Which is, as I stated earlier, willful ignorance. If the shoe fits...

People are definitely discussing different thoughts about “queer”. If everyone agreed about this stuff, threads like this wouldn’t exist. The whole point is sh*t is evolving. Don’t be such a smug jerk.

Please explain how Elliot will live his life differently today than he did yesterday other than having a different name and a different set of pronouns. Other than those two things, what will change? Just think, if we ditch gender as a concept, everyone is free and no need to get offended.

[Anonymous]

Maybe if you wish hard enough, all the big words will just go away!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

They are queer.

What does queer mean anyways? I never understood that term. Gay and lesbian and bi make sense but what is queer?

Basically it's an umbrella term: Queerness encompasses an intersection of identities. The term queer indicates an “individual who self-identifies as either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer (also sometimes called “questioning”), intersex, and or asexual, aka the LGBTQIA+ community.

Thank you for answering this question. I am sure the PPs appreciate it and I do too. These issues can be difficult for those of us of a certain age who want to be kind, respectful, and inclusive to wrap our minds around. Consequently, people ask questions which can be interpreted as rude or disrespectful. Generally people who ask questions aren't trying to ridicule. They just want to understand.

Nonetheless, the prevailing attitude of many "activists" is to respond: "it's not my job to educate you. Figure it out." It is so unproductive. I mean it's not like you can google "what category do you fall in if you are a lesbian who got married to a woman who is now a man?" It isn't easy to understand. Maybe the answer is that you don't categorize, but often the category is important if you want to understand and offer respect. The opposite of love is indifference. Interest demonstrates caring.

Actually, you can Google it. Even very niche topics have been discussed to death and written about extensively on the internet. It’s easy to find and spend your own time getting the information that already exists instead of demanding that someone take the time to tell you. Someone who genuinely seeks to understand will do that instead of dropping in to derail a discussion saying “What does queer mean anyway?”

Not all nuances are explained with google.

If I were straight and then my H came out as trans, and I don't want to be with a woman I might not want to remain married.

I think the original question was asked in a rude way, but the partner can not be ignored.

Nobody's trying to ignore the partner. My point is if you want to find out how partners feel about it when their spouse comes out as trans, Google it. You can find articles, forum discussions, advice columns. There's an entire subreddit dedicated to people whose partner's have come out of trans and what that experience is like. It's all there for you to find if you take a tiny bit of initiative.

I'm a partner. I ID as queer. We were in a non-het relationship when my partner came out as trans. So the fluidity, per PP, was less of a big deal. Not all queer people, but a good deal, are already more comfortable with not fitting into boxes.