Here's the thing I don't understand about husbands who don't help out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like my mama always said "marry them young and train them hard"

So... why is it that it is up to women to "train" the husbands? Who trained us? Why is it that we can see what needs to be done and do it without being given a chore list? My husband will gladly "help out" if I give him a very specific list of what needs to be done... but the fact that I have to tell him what to do and that he still sees it as "assisting" in my domain makes me extremely angry. Did women in the 1960s and 1970s, when many more were entering the workforce have to be "trained" in how to behave and perform in business? No - women entered the workforce, killing it in every way possible, while still keeping the lion's share of home responsibilities. We are doing something very wrong in our society if many men STILL need to be told what to do or are still unable to complete basic home tasks.

+ 1 million!!!! This is EXACTLY how I feel. Why in the hell do I have to figure it all out, get it all done, tell everyone else what needs to get done, do it correctly (yes there is a correct and an incorrect way to do lots of things, not everything is inconsequential), and he can't? The last time we went away for a week, I literally had to stand around like a drill sergeant telling him what to do, what to pack, where to put things constantly, or nothing would get done or he would keep asking me "what should I do?" "What car are we taking?" "Where should I put this?" It's ridiculous. It's tiring. It's lonely. It's exasperating because now I'm seen as a drill sergeant but my only other option is to do it all myself...literally. "Where are the garbage bags? What do I make so and so for lunch ? Is she allergic to this? Questions he should know by now if he used half of his very smart brain for anything important to our family except for making money. I have lost all respect. I'm so sick and tired of being married to someone who in some respects is still 12. It's insane, and if you couldn't tell, it also makes me very angry. I want to be married to an adult, someone who doesn't need a mommy anymore. I wanted a companion, a friend, a partner. Yet I have another child to manage instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you sound ridiculous. You can’t make a gown man do anything. So he brings back the wrong item from a store. You tell him to go back, he says no. What are you going to do? Have a tantrum? Threaten divorce over him getting green grapes instead of red grapes?

You sound ridiculous. What husband doesn’t want to bring the right things back? He should want to be good enough for you. And vice versa.

You don’t have to make him go back the first time. Gently point out what he forgot and remind him to get it the next time. But if it continues to happen, that indicates a serious lack of respect. Then you should make an issue of it.

Again, you cannot MAKE a gown man go back to the store, re-clean the bathroom, or whatever your problem is. What do you mean you should “make an issue of it?” Does that mean act like a huge bitch until he gives in? Give him the silent treatment? What?

He isn’t a child. You cannot train him or make him do things you way-“or else.” Women find themselves in these circumstances because they have a choice of either accepting whatever faults their husband has or divorcing him. Accepting is sometimes the easier/better choice.

The “or else” is the threat that YOU leave HIM, which, in the scenario you are outlining, this man doesn’t seem to care about. But that is a larger issue. I’d leave over that, tbh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guess what, other peoples relationships have different dynamics than yours

Translation: some women get a sense of importance from being The Only One Who Can Parent and Home Life, and thus they bend reality to fit that narrative. And some women actually want things to be balanced in their household, and so they roll with it if their husband buys the wrong brand of cereal or forgets to print out a form for the well visit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As usual, 90% of the posts in this thread are internalized misogyny.

The one that offends me most is the idea that any woman who struggles with allocating household duties and childcare with her spouse has somehow failed by either:

1) Being too dumb to marry a "good" husband
2) Being too obtuse to realize her husband sucks more than other husbands
3) Being too lazy to train her "bad" husband
4) Being too incompetent to just do it herself
5) Being too high-strung to just accept less than perfect
6) Being too poor to just hire it out

Imagine what the world would be like if, instead of constantly trying to prove that we alone figured out how to solve gender inequality in our specific marriage by just being smarter or prettier or more organized than all the other lesser women. Imagine if instead we supported each other. Imagine if every time some man said "Whatever, you're never happy anyway so why should I try", all the women backed that man's wife up and said "No, dumbass, you need to try harder."

But no, let's just keep doing this instead. It's working out GREAT.

Great post! And great synopsis too. I think I'm going to save that list just to I can cut-and-paste it at the beginning of these types of threads (sarcastically), thereby hopefully preempting all the anti-feminists from swooping in to blame and one-up the beleaguered OP... and perhaps then we can actually proceed to a more supportive and constructive discussion.

How strange. I read PPP's post as a pointed criticism of the OP of this thread, not a defense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you're going to be a mom with a stay-at-home spouse, you really have to adopt the same mentality as men in that situation. I stay at home. My husband DOES NOT CARE what we get from the grocery store. It's not that I do it right and therefore he doesn't have to worry. I could do it totally "wrong" and he really wouldn't notice. He does not notice if things are clean or dirty. I don't have to clean the bathroom to his "standards" because he doesn't have any.

So, if you're the wife and you're going to go to work and have your spouse stay at home, I think you have to do the same thing the men do - not care!

Terrific post! Fair and balanced.

Yes, this. My husband doesn’t criticize what I do. I buy what I buy, I clean as well as I can. If he’s not happy with how I do it, he can do it himself. Either you let your husband do the housework his way, or you do it yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As usual, 90% of the posts in this thread are internalized misogyny.

The one that offends me most is the idea that any woman who struggles with allocating household duties and childcare with her spouse has somehow failed by either:

1) Being too dumb to marry a "good" husband
2) Being too obtuse to realize her husband sucks more than other husbands
3) Being too lazy to train her "bad" husband
4) Being too incompetent to just do it herself
5) Being too high-strung to just accept less than perfect
6) Being too poor to just hire it out

Imagine what the world would be like if, instead of constantly trying to prove that we alone figured out how to solve gender inequality in our specific marriage by just being smarter or prettier or more organized than all the other lesser women. Imagine if instead we supported each other. Imagine if every time some man said "Whatever, you're never happy anyway so why should I try", all the women backed that man's wife up and said "No, dumbass, you need to try harder."

But no, let's just keep doing this instead. It's working out GREAT.

Uh, isn’t that what the OP is advocating? She’s saying women should call their useless husbands out on their lazy, half asssed behavior and say they know it’s an act that isn’t fooling anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Ok for all the women defending this bad behavior from men. What would you say to the attorney OP was referencing? She’s the only one working, with 2 kids at home, no help and an unemployed husband. If he refused to take the two kids to the grocery store because he “can’t” juggle them and the task of selecting groceries, what would you say?

Ok honey?

I didn't read that thread but if it's recent, you're not supposed to be taking kids to run errands right now. But if he's offloading them on her during working hours he needs to start going to the grocery store after she finishes work or on the weekends.

I am a SAHM, I do grocery pickup with the kids in the car or I send DH after the kids go to bed because he likes to get out of the house anyway. I would probably advise that Big Law DW that outsourcing things like childcare and household tasks will be far less expensive and traumatic than divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As usual, 90% of the posts in this thread are internalized misogyny.

The one that offends me most is the idea that any woman who struggles with allocating household duties and childcare with her spouse has somehow failed by either:

1) Being too dumb to marry a "good" husband
2) Being too obtuse to realize her husband sucks more than other husbands
3) Being too lazy to train her "bad" husband
4) Being too incompetent to just do it herself
5) Being too high-strung to just accept less than perfect
6) Being too poor to just hire it out

Imagine what the world would be like if, instead of constantly trying to prove that we alone figured out how to solve gender inequality in our specific marriage by just being smarter or prettier or more organized than all the other lesser women. Imagine if instead we supported each other. Imagine if every time some man said "Whatever, you're never happy anyway so why should I try", all the women backed that man's wife up and said "No, dumbass, you need to try harder."

But no, let's just keep doing this instead. It's working out GREAT.

Uh, isn’t that what the OP is advocating? She’s saying women should call their useless husbands out on their lazy, half asssed behavior and say they know it’s an act that isn’t fooling anyone.

No, OP is attacking the OP of another thread ( that's the wife, not husband) and using #1-3 repeatedly to explain why that woman, and other women like her, suck at womaning and should have trained their husbands to be feminist by now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uh.... here’s what happens OP: The husband says no. I’m not going back to the store. I’m not cleaning the bathroom again. If you don’t like the way I did it, you do it.

I guess your husband doesn’t care about you very much then. That’s sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As usual, 90% of the posts in this thread are internalized misogyny.

The one that offends me most is the idea that any woman who struggles with allocating household duties and childcare with her spouse has somehow failed by either:

1) Being too dumb to marry a "good" husband
2) Being too obtuse to realize her husband sucks more than other husbands
3) Being too lazy to train her "bad" husband
4) Being too incompetent to just do it herself
5) Being too high-strung to just accept less than perfect
6) Being too poor to just hire it out

Imagine what the world would be like if, instead of constantly trying to prove that we alone figured out how to solve gender inequality in our specific marriage by just being smarter or prettier or more organized than all the other lesser women. Imagine if instead we supported each other. Imagine if every time some man said "Whatever, you're never happy anyway so why should I try", all the women backed that man's wife up and said "No, dumbass, you need to try harder."

But no, let's just keep doing this instead. It's working out GREAT.

Uh, isn’t that what the OP is advocating? She’s saying women should call their useless husbands out on their lazy, half asssed behavior and say they know it’s an act that isn’t fooling anyone.

No, OP is attacking the OP of another thread ( that's the wife, not husband) and using #1-3 repeatedly to explain why that woman, and other women like her, suck at womaning and should have trained their husbands to be feminist by now.

That’s not how I read it. I read it as her saying all of us women need to call alll men out on this behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, OP, you sound like his Mother. Your way of teaching your DH to clean the bathroom is how I teach my sons. My DH knows how to clean a bathroom better than I do by learning from his Mother. If your DH is not cleaning the bathroom to your standards, then you should be the one with that chore, or you should learn to accept the way he does it. I mean, you can tell him you don't think it's clean enough, and if he wants you to teach him, then go for it, but don't think it helps any relationship to treat your partner like a child.

I don't get mad at my DH when he forgets stuff from the grocery store because he can't find the stuff he wanted just as often as what I wanted. I don't have to teach him how to clean (he's better at most cleaning than I am), but when we were dating and I told him he was loading the dishwasher wrong it led to something like a 4 week standoff because he can't handle criticism at all. He had to break the dishwasher and have a technician come out and tell him exactly what I said he was doing wrong before he changed his ways. I don't think you can teach or train a grown man to be better at basic tasks, you have to choose to marry one that's not a screw-up to begin with (which, dishwasher incident notwithstanding, is what I did). This is why I have more sympathy for women who realize their DH's suck at childcare than cleaning - that one is at least partially unknowable before the fact.

Man, I feel bad for you. He can’t find the things he wanted. You know what I’d say to a teenager? Well, did you ASK someone for help?? Plus now they have apps for that.

I don't think you should feel bad for me. Coming home with 18/20 things on the grocery list is simply not a big deal to me, and if I'm not bothered you shouldn't waste your pity.

It’s just so pathetic. I’m not being snarky, I’m being absolutely serious.

My wife and I split the grocery shopping pretty evenly. If one of us forgot to get something, here's the progression once we get home:

- Do we need it this week for a planned meal, or because it's an essential (someone is out of dedorant, for example). If yes, then you go back. If not immediately, then soon. If no, then we may not go back, immediately, or at all. Or we might, if we had the time and were so inclined. It's really not that difficult.

The amount of disrespect shown in this thread, flowing both ways, is truly stunning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like my mama always said "marry them young and train them hard"

So... why is it that it is up to women to "train" the husbands? Who trained us? Why is it that we can see what needs to be done and do it without being given a chore list? My husband will gladly "help out" if I give him a very specific list of what needs to be done... but the fact that I have to tell him what to do and that he still sees it as "assisting" in my domain makes me extremely angry. Did women in the 1960s and 1970s, when many more were entering the workforce have to be "trained" in how to behave and perform in business? No - women entered the workforce, killing it in every way possible, while still keeping the lion's share of home responsibilities. We are doing something very wrong in our society if many men STILL need to be told what to do or are still unable to complete basic home tasks.

+ 1 million!!!! This is EXACTLY how I feel. Why in the hell do I have to figure it all out, get it all done, tell everyone else what needs to get done, do it correctly (yes there is a correct and an incorrect way to do lots of things, not everything is inconsequential), and he can't? The last time we went away for a week, I literally had to stand around like a drill sergeant telling him what to do, what to pack, where to put things constantly, or nothing would get done or he would keep asking me "what should I do?" "What car are we taking?" "Where should I put this?" It's ridiculous. It's tiring. It's lonely. It's exasperating because now I'm seen as a drill sergeant but my only other option is to do it all myself...literally. "Where are the garbage bags? What do I make so and so for lunch ? Is she allergic to this? Questions he should know by now if he used half of his very smart brain for anything important to our family except for making money. I have lost all respect. I'm so sick and tired of being married to someone who in some respects is still 12. It's insane, and if you couldn't tell, it also makes me very angry. I want to be married to an adult, someone who doesn't need a mommy anymore. I wanted a companion, a friend, a partner. Yet I have another child to manage instead.

What do you think would happen if you said all this to him? In a calm, genuinely caring way, not in a nasty attacking way. Like, “I’m worried about the future of our relations if nothing changes,” kind of way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like my mama always said "marry them young and train them hard"

So... why is it that it is up to women to "train" the husbands? Who trained us? Why is it that we can see what needs to be done and do it without being given a chore list? My husband will gladly "help out" if I give him a very specific list of what needs to be done... but the fact that I have to tell him what to do and that he still sees it as "assisting" in my domain makes me extremely angry. Did women in the 1960s and 1970s, when many more were entering the workforce have to be "trained" in how to behave and perform in business? No - women entered the workforce, killing it in every way possible, while still keeping the lion's share of home responsibilities. We are doing something very wrong in our society if many men STILL need to be told what to do or are still unable to complete basic home tasks.

+ 1 million!!!! This is EXACTLY how I feel. Why in the hell do I have to figure it all out, get it all done, tell everyone else what needs to get done, do it correctly (yes there is a correct and an incorrect way to do lots of things, not everything is inconsequential), and he can't? The last time we went away for a week, I literally had to stand around like a drill sergeant telling him what to do, what to pack, where to put things constantly, or nothing would get done or he would keep asking me "what should I do?" "What car are we taking?" "Where should I put this?" It's ridiculous. It's tiring. It's lonely. It's exasperating because now I'm seen as a drill sergeant but my only other option is to do it all myself...literally. "Where are the garbage bags? What do I make so and so for lunch ? Is she allergic to this? Questions he should know by now if he used half of his very smart brain for anything important to our family except for making money. I have lost all respect. I'm so sick and tired of being married to someone who in some respects is still 12. It's insane, and if you couldn't tell, it also makes me very angry. I want to be married to an adult, someone who doesn't need a mommy anymore. I wanted a companion, a friend, a partner. Yet I have another child to manage instead.

How did you pack when you were dating? I don't understand how some of this stuff comes out of nowhere.

I do think people put off having the serious conversations by turning into the drill sergeant. Literally just do not do not. Let him fail and let him have to fix it. Other than the allergy thing. If he asks you about the garbage bags say you don't know. If he asks what car you're taking ask, which one does he think? If he asks what his kid is allergic to say, 'how can we get you to remember this, what do you think she's allergic to?' Or just don't be around in those moments so he's forced to figure it out on his own.

If he forgets to pack diapers or underwear well, then he's going to have to go find some. And he should have to take the kid with him while he does it. Don't save him, don't be a drill sergeant.

My DH does the laundry, if DD comes to me asking where a shirt is, I send her to him. If he doesn't know where it is, they have to figure that out together. I don't care about the shirt, its his stuff. Divide things up, and then just don't ever throw the life preserver (unless they have the stomach flu or something)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As usual, 90% of the posts in this thread are internalized misogyny.

The one that offends me most is the idea that any woman who struggles with allocating household duties and childcare with her spouse has somehow failed by either:

1) Being too dumb to marry a "good" husband
2) Being too obtuse to realize her husband sucks more than other husbands
3) Being too lazy to train her "bad" husband
4) Being too incompetent to just do it herself
5) Being too high-strung to just accept less than perfect
6) Being too poor to just hire it out

Imagine what the world would be like if, instead of constantly trying to prove that we alone figured out how to solve gender inequality in our specific marriage by just being smarter or prettier or more organized than all the other lesser women. Imagine if instead we supported each other. Imagine if every time some man said "Whatever, you're never happy anyway so why should I try", all the women backed that man's wife up and said "No, dumbass, you need to try harder."

But no, let's just keep doing this instead. It's working out GREAT.

Uh, isn’t that what the OP is advocating? She’s saying women should call their useless husbands out on their lazy, half asssed behavior and say they know it’s an act that isn’t fooling anyone.

No, OP is attacking the OP of another thread ( that's the wife, not husband) and using #1-3 repeatedly to explain why that woman, and other women like her, suck at womaning and should have trained their husbands to be feminist by now.

She specifically said she isn’t attacking her and obviously feels sorry for her. She said it was the example that prompted her post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh.... here’s what happens OP: The husband says no. I’m not going back to the store. I’m not cleaning the bathroom again. If you don’t like the way I did it, you do it.

I guess your husband doesn’t care about you very much then. That’s sad.

Look, this is not my husband. So save your sadness. But your response is very manipulative. We should all be sad for your husband. I bet he misses his balls.