NYT: In the Covid-19 Economy, You Can Have a Kid or a Job. You Can’t Have Both.

[Anonymous]

This thread has gone off the rails. Apparently people actually DO believe almost half of working parents should not be in the workforce. Stunning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has gone off the rails. Apparently people actually DO believe almost half of working parents should not be in the workforce. Stunning.

And that somehow that won't effect the economy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion, I know. But maybe having more parents at home will bring back family values.

No, if anything, a lot of marriages are going through unprecedented stress right now and probably won't make it or will be dealing with the negative consequences for years.

Yes, it's so sad too. They're trying to maintain pre-covid lives and it's causing unneeded stress. If only they could downsize, simplify and enjoy what they have.

If only they could downsize (= happily lose their job and health insurance, and give up those pesky mortgage and grocery payments) and enjoy what they have, everything would be rosy.

They can downsize. Rent an apartment to live in and rent out the SFH. The rent from the SFH might not entirely offset the lost second income, but it is better than nothing. We’re currently looking for a 3 br, 2 BA SFH in 20910 and am struggling to find a place under $2200/mo. Many places are going for $3-5000/mo. They should rent in Western MD or some other COLA for a year and things will probably be much better by then.

But stop crying over things that poor families have always faced.

I am a dual-income familiy IN A RENTAL. We have never been able to afford a SFH.

We cannot give up the second job. Something would have to give. Here, I'll let you choose. Should we give up health insurance, the rent, or our groceries?

And before you start screaming about luxuries: we have one smartphone and one 10-year-old car between three people. Our last vacation was in 2015.

You can afford a cheaper rental elsewhere then.

We’re also in a rental. Stuck here because of a custody agreement with my XH and can’t move from MoCo for 4 more years. Look in the exurbs for a place that is $900-1200/mo. And consider working at Walmart or other retail job that would allow you to schedule opposite your spouse. Working class people have to figure this out all the time. Your situation isn’t remarkable, it’s just new to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion, I know. But maybe having more parents at home will bring back family values.

Which family values?

We live in the society that does not value families. If we did there would be a much better social safety net

family values to instill:

#1 - Teach our kids to help others. Rather than spend all our money and time on extracurriculars, working to afford huge houses, etc., donate time and resources to families in need. Open our homes to help single mothers. Prepare extra food for families who don't have time. The first step is for you to teach your children to value family and become a social safety net.

This is really rich, because single mothers are suffering terribly right now.

And also shows how out of touch you are because most dual-income parents are not working for the reasons you profess. But keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel special. Bye bye.

Those with resources are the ones that are supposed to be helping those you're mentioning. But keep making excuses about why YOU aren't able to help anyone else and just complain about lack of social safety nets. People want fixes but aren't willing to sacrifice to help. It's unfortunate. There is absolutely no reason for people to live in mil $ homes, spend thousands on club teams then complain about how hard it would be to live on one income. I know plenty of families making sacrifices to have a parent stay home pre-covid.

1. You don't know anything about PP's level of volunteerism.

2. Volunteerism cannot ever compensate for lack of a comprehensive, nationwide social safety net.

3. Dual-income families, with rare exceptions, HAVE TO BE DUAL-INCOME to afford a home, food, and healthcare. Not luxuries. The basics.

Do you think anything is going to fix this overnight? Instead of complaining, teach your children the value of bolded and maybe they'll grow up with ideas about how to enact a comprehensive, nationwide social net.

Yeah, that’s worked out well for those of us old enough to have grown up caring about climate change, gun control, abortion, and other liberal causes that wind up always sacrificed on the altar of the almighty corporate economy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion, I know. But maybe having more parents at home will bring back family values.

No, if anything, a lot of marriages are going through unprecedented stress right now and probably won't make it or will be dealing with the negative consequences for years.

Yes, it's so sad too. They're trying to maintain pre-covid lives and it's causing unneeded stress. If only they could downsize, simplify and enjoy what they have.

If only they could downsize (= happily lose their job and health insurance, and give up those pesky mortgage and grocery payments) and enjoy what they have, everything would be rosy.

They can downsize. Rent an apartment to live in and rent out the SFH. The rent from the SFH might not entirely offset the lost second income, but it is better than nothing. We’re currently looking for a 3 br, 2 BA SFH in 20910 and am struggling to find a place under $2200/mo. Many places are going for $3-5000/mo. They should rent in Western MD or some other COLA for a year and things will probably be much better by then.

But stop crying over things that poor families have always faced.

I am a dual-income familiy IN A RENTAL. We have never been able to afford a SFH.

We cannot give up the second job. Something would have to give. Here, I'll let you choose. Should we give up health insurance, the rent, or our groceries?

And before you start screaming about luxuries: we have one smartphone and one 10-year-old car between three people. Our last vacation was in 2015.

You can afford a cheaper rental elsewhere then.

We’re also in a rental. Stuck here because of a custody agreement with my XH and can’t move from MoCo for 4 more years. Look in the exurbs for a place that is $900-1200/mo. And consider working at Walmart or other retail job that would allow you to schedule opposite your spouse. Working class people have to figure this out all the time. Your situation isn’t remarkable, it’s just new to you.

And why would you think that these difficulties should be what everyone is reduced to, rather than implementing policies that don’t screw over working class families?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/02/business/covid-economy-parents-kids-career-homeschooling.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Yep.

Thank you for posting. It sums up everything I've been feeling much better than I could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion, I know. But maybe having more parents at home will bring back family values.

No, if anything, a lot of marriages are going through unprecedented stress right now and probably won't make it or will be dealing with the negative consequences for years.

Yes, it's so sad too. They're trying to maintain pre-covid lives and it's causing unneeded stress. If only they could downsize, simplify and enjoy what they have.

If only they could downsize (= happily lose their job and health insurance, and give up those pesky mortgage and grocery payments) and enjoy what they have, everything would be rosy.

They can downsize. Rent an apartment to live in and rent out the SFH. The rent from the SFH might not entirely offset the lost second income, but it is better than nothing. We’re currently looking for a 3 br, 2 BA SFH in 20910 and am struggling to find a place under $2200/mo. Many places are going for $3-5000/mo. They should rent in Western MD or some other COLA for a year and things will probably be much better by then.

But stop crying over things that poor families have always faced.

I am a dual-income familiy IN A RENTAL. We have never been able to afford a SFH.

We cannot give up the second job. Something would have to give. Here, I'll let you choose. Should we give up health insurance, the rent, or our groceries?

And before you start screaming about luxuries: we have one smartphone and one 10-year-old car between three people. Our last vacation was in 2015.

I'm so sorry you're struggling. I wish I could help organize small pods made up of those in your situation, along with more fortunate families, to help you out during this rough time. I wish more families would reach out and help where they can. I'm putting the word out here in my area, and I encourage those on this board that are lucky enough to do so in their areas too. That is if they'll be honest with themselves and make the sacrifices to allow them to help.

I think you are kind of missing the point- this poster is not an outlier, this type of situation is common all over the country. I mean it’s nice if you and your wealthy neighbors have time to work to identify some local families that need help, but this patchwork assistance doesn’t go as far as a strong, nationwide safety net and policies to support families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion, I know. But maybe having more parents at home will bring back family values.

No, if anything, a lot of marriages are going through unprecedented stress right now and probably won't make it or will be dealing with the negative consequences for years.

Yes, it's so sad too. They're trying to maintain pre-covid lives and it's causing unneeded stress. If only they could downsize, simplify and enjoy what they have.

If only they could downsize (= happily lose their job and health insurance, and give up those pesky mortgage and grocery payments) and enjoy what they have, everything would be rosy.

They can downsize. Rent an apartment to live in and rent out the SFH. The rent from the SFH might not entirely offset the lost second income, but it is better than nothing. We’re currently looking for a 3 br, 2 BA SFH in 20910 and am struggling to find a place under $2200/mo. Many places are going for $3-5000/mo. They should rent in Western MD or some other COLA for a year and things will probably be much better by then.

But stop crying over things that poor families have always faced.

I am a dual-income familiy IN A RENTAL. We have never been able to afford a SFH.

We cannot give up the second job. Something would have to give. Here, I'll let you choose. Should we give up health insurance, the rent, or our groceries?

And before you start screaming about luxuries: we have one smartphone and one 10-year-old car between three people. Our last vacation was in 2015.

You can afford a cheaper rental elsewhere then.

We’re also in a rental. Stuck here because of a custody agreement with my XH and can’t move from MoCo for 4 more years. Look in the exurbs for a place that is $900-1200/mo. And consider working at Walmart or other retail job that would allow you to schedule opposite your spouse. Working class people have to figure this out all the time. Your situation isn’t remarkable, it’s just new to you.

How do you know? PP didn’t say where they live or what they do. Lots of assumptions here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a family where the grandparents, parents and kids all live in one household. They are the ones who have been able to continue without the issue of childcare because there are 4 adults to two kids. Parents work in IT and medical field. Both grandparents had prestigious careers too before retiring. Before COVID they had outsourced cleaning etc, so I am sure that cooking, cleaning and laundry is not easier than before COVID.

Perhaps we should think not of women opting out of workplace but recognizing that multigenerational households have some positives for working parents. We are too screwed as a planet and species to now worry about the cons of joint families.

+1 My parents are moving in with us next month. Multigenerational household makes sense to us right now and we are looking forward to it.

This is lovely for people who have parents who are healthy enough to help. For us, we were relying on an au pair to fill that gap. But the Trump administration has now put a ban in place for new au pairs, essentially giving the middle finger to working families in the middle of a childcare crisis.

Well, now you'll have to spring for a professional local nanny instead of exploiting a dirt-cheap foreigner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion, I know. But maybe having more parents at home will bring back family values.

No, if anything, a lot of marriages are going through unprecedented stress right now and probably won't make it or will be dealing with the negative consequences for years.

Yes, it's so sad too. They're trying to maintain pre-covid lives and it's causing unneeded stress. If only they could downsize, simplify and enjoy what they have.

If only they could downsize (= happily lose their job and health insurance, and give up those pesky mortgage and grocery payments) and enjoy what they have, everything would be rosy.

They can downsize. Rent an apartment to live in and rent out the SFH. The rent from the SFH might not entirely offset the lost second income, but it is better than nothing. We’re currently looking for a 3 br, 2 BA SFH in 20910 and am struggling to find a place under $2200/mo. Many places are going for $3-5000/mo. They should rent in Western MD or some other COLA for a year and things will probably be much better by then.

But stop crying over things that poor families have always faced.

I am a dual-income familiy IN A RENTAL. We have never been able to afford a SFH.

We cannot give up the second job. Something would have to give. Here, I'll let you choose. Should we give up health insurance, the rent, or our groceries?

And before you start screaming about luxuries: we have one smartphone and one 10-year-old car between three people. Our last vacation was in 2015.

You can afford a cheaper rental elsewhere then.

We’re also in a rental. Stuck here because of a custody agreement with my XH and can’t move from MoCo for 4 more years. Look in the exurbs for a place that is $900-1200/mo. And consider working at Walmart or other retail job that would allow you to schedule opposite your spouse. Working class people have to figure this out all the time. Your situation isn’t remarkable, it’s just new to you.

And why would you think that these difficulties should be what everyone is reduced to, rather than implementing policies that don’t screw over working class families?

Middle class people are just now getting outraged about the issues that working class families have always dealt with. That’s what irritates me. That we’re supposed to catch religion now that it’s you suffering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion, I know. But maybe having more parents at home will bring back family values.

No, if anything, a lot of marriages are going through unprecedented stress right now and probably won't make it or will be dealing with the negative consequences for years.

Yes, it's so sad too. They're trying to maintain pre-covid lives and it's causing unneeded stress. If only they could downsize, simplify and enjoy what they have.

If only they could downsize (= happily lose their job and health insurance, and give up those pesky mortgage and grocery payments) and enjoy what they have, everything would be rosy.

They can downsize. Rent an apartment to live in and rent out the SFH. The rent from the SFH might not entirely offset the lost second income, but it is better than nothing. We’re currently looking for a 3 br, 2 BA SFH in 20910 and am struggling to find a place under $2200/mo. Many places are going for $3-5000/mo. They should rent in Western MD or some other COLA for a year and things will probably be much better by then.

But stop crying over things that poor families have always faced.

I am a dual-income familiy IN A RENTAL. We have never been able to afford a SFH.

We cannot give up the second job. Something would have to give. Here, I'll let you choose. Should we give up health insurance, the rent, or our groceries?

And before you start screaming about luxuries: we have one smartphone and one 10-year-old car between three people. Our last vacation was in 2015.

I'm so sorry you're struggling. I wish I could help organize small pods made up of those in your situation, along with more fortunate families, to help you out during this rough time. I wish more families would reach out and help where they can. I'm putting the word out here in my area, and I encourage those on this board that are lucky enough to do so in their areas too. That is if they'll be honest with themselves and make the sacrifices to allow them to help.

I think you are kind of missing the point- this poster is not an outlier, this type of situation is common all over the country. I mean it’s nice if you and your wealthy neighbors have time to work to identify some local families that need help, but this patchwork assistance doesn’t go as far as a strong, nationwide safety net and policies to support families.

And I think you missed my original point. I said I know it's unpopular, but I hope the ones forced in to this situation are able to use it to teach their children values, including how to help those in need.

Too many families lack a giving spirit. Too many have put possessions over family. Too many would prefer to complain than to just do something. IF all that could, would, it will help in the immediate and give those really in need help. I wish you well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has gone off the rails. Apparently people actually DO believe almost half of working parents should not be in the workforce. Stunning.

And that somehow that won't effect the economy.

So what do you suggest for the 20-21 school year? Partial in-person is all we’re getting, that’s not changing. Instead of complaining, what do you think working parents can actually do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion, I know. But maybe having more parents at home will bring back family values.

No, if anything, a lot of marriages are going through unprecedented stress right now and probably won't make it or will be dealing with the negative consequences for years.

Yes, it's so sad too. They're trying to maintain pre-covid lives and it's causing unneeded stress. If only they could downsize, simplify and enjoy what they have.

If only they could downsize (= happily lose their job and health insurance, and give up those pesky mortgage and grocery payments) and enjoy what they have, everything would be rosy.

They can downsize. Rent an apartment to live in and rent out the SFH. The rent from the SFH might not entirely offset the lost second income, but it is better than nothing. We’re currently looking for a 3 br, 2 BA SFH in 20910 and am struggling to find a place under $2200/mo. Many places are going for $3-5000/mo. They should rent in Western MD or some other COLA for a year and things will probably be much better by then.

But stop crying over things that poor families have always faced.

I am a dual-income familiy IN A RENTAL. We have never been able to afford a SFH.

We cannot give up the second job. Something would have to give. Here, I'll let you choose. Should we give up health insurance, the rent, or our groceries?

And before you start screaming about luxuries: we have one smartphone and one 10-year-old car between three people. Our last vacation was in 2015.

You can afford a cheaper rental elsewhere then.

We’re also in a rental. Stuck here because of a custody agreement with my XH and can’t move from MoCo for 4 more years. Look in the exurbs for a place that is $900-1200/mo. And consider working at Walmart or other retail job that would allow you to schedule opposite your spouse. Working class people have to figure this out all the time. Your situation isn’t remarkable, it’s just new to you.

It would be even better if they just left the DMV entirely- there is a Walmart in every decent sized town where you could get a rental even cheaper. Or but a small house/trailer outright. If needed both parents could trade off Walmart shifts until the husband can find a better job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion, I know. But maybe having more parents at home will bring back family values.

No, if anything, a lot of marriages are going through unprecedented stress right now and probably won't make it or will be dealing with the negative consequences for years.

Yes, it's so sad too. They're trying to maintain pre-covid lives and it's causing unneeded stress. If only they could downsize, simplify and enjoy what they have.

If only they could downsize (= happily lose their job and health insurance, and give up those pesky mortgage and grocery payments) and enjoy what they have, everything would be rosy.

They can downsize. Rent an apartment to live in and rent out the SFH. The rent from the SFH might not entirely offset the lost second income, but it is better than nothing. We’re currently looking for a 3 br, 2 BA SFH in 20910 and am struggling to find a place under $2200/mo. Many places are going for $3-5000/mo. They should rent in Western MD or some other COLA for a year and things will probably be much better by then.

But stop crying over things that poor families have always faced.

I am a dual-income familiy IN A RENTAL. We have never been able to afford a SFH.

We cannot give up the second job. Something would have to give. Here, I'll let you choose. Should we give up health insurance, the rent, or our groceries?

And before you start screaming about luxuries: we have one smartphone and one 10-year-old car between three people. Our last vacation was in 2015.

You can afford a cheaper rental elsewhere then.

We’re also in a rental. Stuck here because of a custody agreement with my XH and can’t move from MoCo for 4 more years. Look in the exurbs for a place that is $900-1200/mo. And consider working at Walmart or other retail job that would allow you to schedule opposite your spouse. Working class people have to figure this out all the time. Your situation isn’t remarkable, it’s just new to you.

And why would you think that these difficulties should be what everyone is reduced to, rather than implementing policies that don’t screw over working class families?

Middle class people are just now getting outraged about the issues that working class families have always dealt with. That’s what irritates me. That we’re supposed to catch religion now that it’s you suffering.

Ah so there is an agenda here- bitterness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion, I know. But maybe having more parents at home will bring back family values.

No, if anything, a lot of marriages are going through unprecedented stress right now and probably won't make it or will be dealing with the negative consequences for years.

Yes, it's so sad too. They're trying to maintain pre-covid lives and it's causing unneeded stress. If only they could downsize, simplify and enjoy what they have.

If only they could downsize (= happily lose their job and health insurance, and give up those pesky mortgage and grocery payments) and enjoy what they have, everything would be rosy.

They can downsize. Rent an apartment to live in and rent out the SFH. The rent from the SFH might not entirely offset the lost second income, but it is better than nothing. We’re currently looking for a 3 br, 2 BA SFH in 20910 and am struggling to find a place under $2200/mo. Many places are going for $3-5000/mo. They should rent in Western MD or some other COLA for a year and things will probably be much better by then.

But stop crying over things that poor families have always faced.

I am a dual-income familiy IN A RENTAL. We have never been able to afford a SFH.

We cannot give up the second job. Something would have to give. Here, I'll let you choose. Should we give up health insurance, the rent, or our groceries?

And before you start screaming about luxuries: we have one smartphone and one 10-year-old car between three people. Our last vacation was in 2015.

I'm so sorry you're struggling. I wish I could help organize small pods made up of those in your situation, along with more fortunate families, to help you out during this rough time. I wish more families would reach out and help where they can. I'm putting the word out here in my area, and I encourage those on this board that are lucky enough to do so in their areas too. That is if they'll be honest with themselves and make the sacrifices to allow them to help.

I think you are kind of missing the point- this poster is not an outlier, this type of situation is common all over the country. I mean it’s nice if you and your wealthy neighbors have time to work to identify some local families that need help, but this patchwork assistance doesn’t go as far as a strong, nationwide safety net and policies to support families.

And I think you missed my original point. I said I know it's unpopular, but I hope the ones forced in to this situation are able to use it to teach their children values, including how to help those in need.

Too many families lack a giving spirit. Too many have put possessions over family. Too many would prefer to complain than to just do something. IF all that could, would, it will help in the immediate and give those really in need help. I wish you well.

Unpopular on DCYM, yes is actually a very common sentiment in conservative circles.