NYT: In the Covid-19 Economy, You Can Have a Kid or a Job. You Can’t Have Both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So true. Woman will be set back by this for sure.

or men will finally step up.

And do what? They have precisely the dilemma described in the article - they need to send their kids to school and they need to go back to work - and the article did not propose any solutions.

It is idiotic to make this a men vs women problem, because it isn’t.

Women disproportionally do the vast bulk of childcare in this country.

SO. WHAT.

You’re totally missing the point.

WHAT DO YOU WANT MEN TO DO?

More childcare? Isn't that obvious? What are you missing here?

What kind of childcare? Provided by who? Why is that a “men step up” issue? What do you want me, a man who is not the CEO and has no great power or control in my company, to step up and do?

Pre-COVID: Who schedules doctor appointments and takes the kids in your house? Who monitors the kids homework and all the paperwork that comes home from school? Who researches, selects, registers, and arranges transportation for the kids to get summer camp every year? I am a man, I did (and do) all that and more.

Post-COVID: Who is responsible for providing childcare during the days the kids aren't at school? Good question. We both have jobs.

"Stepping up" means don't leave it all for the mom to make it work. I never did that before. Pre-COVID moms did the vast majority of this work but they largely were able to balance it with paid work. That isn't possible post-COVID and it means for most dual income families, that someone is going to have to sacrifice. It shouldn't always be the mom.

And before you default to "well, my job pays more", you should take a second to appreciate that many women are paid less because they do the vast majority of the unpaid work and the gender pay gap itself is tied to parental leave (in countries with equitable parental leave policies, the gender pay gap closes). I don't agree with the "because" here. My wife gets paid less because she has less education and less responsibility, a choice she made long before she had kids, and indeed, long before she met me. And in any event she does not do, and never has done, "most of the unpaid work.".

Man answering.

I feel like you're the "not all white people" commenter here.

[Anonymous]

This article is why we need schools to reopen on a typical schedule, and funds need to be made available to support this - for more space, PPE for teachers, etc.

All the PPs arguing about how men need to step up are missing the point. This problem is so pervasive, we need a systemic solution. In the same way that our response to Covid is a systemic solution - the federal Government is investing in research, hospitals are gearing up for the continued pandemic, pharma companies are investing $$, etc. No one is telling you that you are on your own if you get sick.

But that is what is going on with schools. Teachers accuse parents of being selfish because they are unable to balance a job with also supporting DL. Parents are terrified of losing their jobs while also worried about their child’s education.

Everyone is going to have to make changes. This is going to go on for a long time - a vaccine will be considered effective if it works 50% of the time — that is much better than now, but it is not going to be the panacea people are hoping for.

[Anonymous]

We need babysitter robots. They could be manned by someone.

[Anonymous]

This is an earthquake, a war, a meteor. We’re all so overwhelmed that we want someone to blame. But parents: it’s not the teachers. And teachers: it’s not the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So true. Woman will be set back by this for sure.

or men will finally step up.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

My thoughts exactly.

+1

My friends with 3+ kids and full time jobs (especially if they are demanding jobs, or they are the breadwinner) are really feeling it now, understandably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yep. Totally true. But when people say “schools need to open so I can work” the response is, “school isn’t daycare! Figure it out!”

This drives me crazy. Working parents already do "work it out". We do before and after programs, summer camps or nannies, babysitters for evening and weekend work. The problem is that none of this exists right now!!!! Especially if you aren't considered an essential worker but your boss still requires you at work. And one of us can't just quit our job for a temporary problem. We have a mortgage to pay.

We know we're going to have to find childcare for before school and 3 days a week presuming FCPS stays with this plan. And there are very few options. We will probably try to hire a sitter/nanny but won't know the days the kids are in school until August 10 for an August 24 start.

So I'm really sick of hearing about schools being used as daycare. It reduces the problem to something it is absolutely not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So true. Woman will be set back by this for sure.

or men will finally step up.

And do what? They have precisely the dilemma described in the article - they need to send their kids to school and they need to go back to work - and the article did not propose any solutions.

It is idiotic to make this a men vs women problem, because it isn’t.

Women disproportionally do the vast bulk of childcare in this country.

SO. WHAT.

You’re totally missing the point.

WHAT DO YOU WANT MEN TO DO?

More childcare? Isn't that obvious? What are you missing here?

What kind of childcare? Provided by who? Why is that a “men step up” issue? What do you want me, a man who is not the CEO and has no great power or control in my company, to step up and do?

Pre-COVID: Who schedules doctor appointments and takes the kids in your house? Who monitors the kids homework and all the paperwork that comes home from school? Who researches, selects, registers, and arranges transportation for the kids to get summer camp every year?

Post-COVID: Who is responsible for providing childcare during the days the kids aren't at school?

"Stepping up" means don't leave it all for the mom to make it work. Pre-COVID moms did the vast majority of this work but they largely were able to balance it with paid work. That isn't possible post-COVID and it means for most dual income families, that someone is going to have to sacrifice. It shouldn't always be the mom.

And before you default to "well, my job pays more", you should take a second to appreciate that many women are paid less because they do the vast majority of the unpaid work and the gender pay gap itself is tied to parental leave (in countries with equitable parental leave policies, the gender pay gap closes).

Sing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Pre-COVID: Who schedules doctor appointments and takes the kids in your house? Who monitors the kids homework and all the paperwork that comes home from school? Who researches, selects, registers, and arranges transportation for the kids to get summer camp every year? I am a man, I did (and do) all that and more.

Post-COVID: Who is responsible for providing childcare during the days the kids aren't at school? Good question. We both have jobs.

"Stepping up" means don't leave it all for the mom to make it work. I never did that before. Pre-COVID moms did the vast majority of this work but they largely were able to balance it with paid work. That isn't possible post-COVID and it means for most dual income families, that someone is going to have to sacrifice. It shouldn't always be the mom.

And before you default to "well, my job pays more", you should take a second to appreciate that many women are paid less because they do the vast majority of the unpaid work and the gender pay gap itself is tied to parental leave (in countries with equitable parental leave policies, the gender pay gap closes). I don't agree with the "because" here. My wife gets paid less because she has less education and less responsibility, a choice she made long before she had kids, and indeed, long before she met me. And in any event she does not do, and never has done, "most of the unpaid work.".

Man answering.

That's great, but also not most families. The question was what does "stepping up" mean and I answered that. Regardless of YOUR family's situation, the fact is in most families it is the mom who provides the vast majority of the childcare and it is the mom who will be assumed to be responsible for providing additional childcare in this situation where our existing childcare systems are broken. That she likely makes less money will be used as justification for why she should make additional career sacrifices regardless of the fact that women's incomes are already lower due to sacrifices they make for childcare.

My personal situation is also different in that my DH has been 100% WAH for years now and I, WOH, make the majority income. That doesn't stop me from recognizing that this NYT article is spot on that the current plans are going to run a lot of women's careers right off the cliff just as women were beginning to close the gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multi generational housing is NOT the answer during the time of Covid! Are you nuts??? Look at what happened in Italy you idiots.

Exactly. Multi-generational households were THE driver of the high fatality rate in Italy. Hotel Mama is a common concept there, and it didn't work out well for the elders.

It was also a big problem in Wuhan. The only child policy meant that sometimes a couple would live with two sets of grandparents.

Not talking about Italy or Wuhan. Talking about DMV and multigenerational families here who have managed beautifully. Not talking about weekend at Nana kind of situation where extended family eats lunch with the matriarch in her house. Normal, well to do families living in a SFH with rooms for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BREAKING: structuring your life so you’re living at the limits of your capacity — emotional, financial, etc. — means you’re incredibly fragile. Some people don’t have a choice. Two-income white collar families do.

I'm sorry but we were not "structuring our life so we were living at the limits of our capacity" before this happened. The systemic supports that were PART of the structure disappeared. This reply is like if I were sitting on a stool, some jerk came by and sawed one of the legs off from under me, and then you walked by seeing me on the floor and said, "maybe you should have chosen to sit on a chair with four legs, that stool was incredibly fragile." Would have been FINE without the saw, thanks for nothing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multi generational housing is NOT the answer during the time of Covid! Are you nuts??? Look at what happened in Italy you idiots.

Exactly. Multi-generational households were THE driver of the high fatality rate in Italy. Hotel Mama is a common concept there, and it didn't work out well for the elders.

It was also a big problem in Wuhan. The only child policy meant that sometimes a couple would live with two sets of grandparents.

Not talking about Italy or Wuhan. Talking about DMV and multigenerational families here who have managed beautifully. Not talking about weekend at Nana kind of situation where extended family eats lunch with the matriarch in her house. Normal, well to do families living in a SFH with rooms for everyone.

That is exactly what many multi generational homes were in Italy and Wuhan. Not weekends at Nana, but normal and well to do families living in a SFH with rooms for everyone.

[Anonymous]

The lack of support for childcare and it's attendant duties largely falling on women is our society's modern slavery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The lack of support for childcare and it's attendant duties largely falling on women is our society's modern slavery.

FFS

That is offensive.

No one forced you to have children. I happen to know birth control works really well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lack of support for childcare and it's attendant duties largely falling on women is our society's modern slavery.

FFS

That is offensive.

No one forced you to have children. I happen to know birth control works really well.

Actually it doesn't. You can't get your tubes tied without consent of a husband and at 25 before having kids. Seriously.
Many good men turn into much more challenging partners when kids come along and they don't pick up the slack. My great FIL never changed a poopy diaper. Thanks fully his son has but many many buys and young men grew up in households where moms took care of all child related things. No one forced them sure. But now we have woken out in the workforce AND doing the majority of child related tasks. No, not all men are like that (my husband certainly isn't and is a fully equal partner) but many many are.
Men can ask and normalize paternity leave. They can ask for flexible schedules and make it normal they they take time off for kids dr appointments and snow days. The more of them do that the better for everyone so it's not just "oh Stacey is a mom so she'll have to have an early day every x to take jimmy to camp". It's "ok we are employing parents of both gentlest and to attract and retain good workers we should be aware of their family needs". This benefits childless people too since they are often caretakers of their parents, have health issues, or other needs for flexibility from employers.

[Anonymous]

I think the basic premise of the article is correct, but I have to admit, I am annoyed by her particular situation. She has a crazy successful blog and plenty of cookbooks. She could 1) move to a lower cost area (plenty of them still have cool food scenes), and 2) her husband could work part-time or stay home altogether to take care of the kids bc his wife is rich and has an awesome job. To me, she kind of sounded like "why isn't anyone helping me live in Brooklyn and write about cake!!!!!!"