Toddler death on a cruise ship. So tragic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is awful, and to the PP (PPs?) above who lost a child, I am very sorry. I can't imagine your pain or your strength.

The first report I read stated grandpa lifted the child, then HE stumbled. HE lost his balance, not that the child squirmed away.

I don't care who is to blame, I just hope the cruise line will do it's best to accommodate this family without a nasty, public fight.

This is just terrible. My heart aches for everyone involved - the family (obviously) but also the witnesses and the ship's staff.

Define accommodate.

They've already gotten the family airfare and hotel accommodations in Puerto Rico as they're waiting for the body to be released. They also assigned caretakers/family liaisons.

I think that and a memorial of some sort would be acceptable. Plus a refund of their cruise costs.

Anything more is beyond what would be standard.

[Anonymous]

Essentially Gramps dropped the kid out an 11 story window. And made up a story that she liked to bang her head. I wonder if drinking was involved ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a reason all the windows are glass all the way to the floor. You don't need to pick up your kid to let them see over, they can look out the window with their feet on the ground.

Another reason the grandfather's story makes no sense. She could have toddler banged from the ground just like she did at the hockey rink. The only difference between her ground view and the ledge was the LACK of a tinted window in place.

I thinking he went for that window specifically and she slipped out of his grasp. Her father/his son-in-law was a cop. He should be asking his FIL pointed questions instead of taking pictures of the 'crime' scene.

And if grandpa did pick her up on purpose should he be prosecuted? To what end? The man is going to live with guilt for the rest of his life, which may not be long. I could see an older person just wasting away after something like this. The heartbreak might kill him. He isn’t a danger to society. It doesn’t sound like he has a rap sheet of killing small kids. What would arresting him do?

This should stay a civil law matter between the family and the cruise line.

A) Neither of us said he should be arrested.

B) The whole point is there isn't a civil case at all. The family is blaming the cruise line when its the guardian's negligence at fault. They should get the body and go home quietly.

I think based on the multiple opinions on this thread alone, there is an open question as to whether the cruise ship met its duty of care. Even if found liable, this will hardly bankrupt the cruise line, but it may inspire them to improve safety measures. At the very least this is more than just a frivolous lawsuit. I know I have a lot of questions about the window height, common practices re: cruise ship window openings, proximity of the children's Play area, window tint coloring, etc., which are reasonable for litigation discovery.

Like what exactly? Not have windows? If you look at the pictures you can see the tint and the handles for the sliding capabilities. It seems odd that of ALL the windows he picks the ONE window that is open? He knew it was open and giving her a view, let her little legs dangle over. Bam! I guess everyone will have to put up signs on all windows that say "Please don't sit children on railings in front of windows." Which seems like 99.999999% of cruise customers with children already knew.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been on that cruise ship 11 stories up. It’s hard for me to imagine a sober person lifting a child up to their waist and dropping her out a window. The wind blows up there and it’s apparent that is a long way down to the sea below. You picked the only open window in a row and dropped the kid out ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Essentially Gramps dropped the kid out an 11 story window. And made up a story that she liked to bang her head. I wonder if drinking was involved ?

I think it’s true she liked to bang at the rink. That is exactly the type of thing that I see parents allow and think is so cute. But really, it’s not an appropriate behavior for a public place. Or even at home. What if she banged a thinner window somewhere and her arm had gone through severing an artery or tendon?

[Anonymous]

So he had her in his arms and let her lean out thinking the window was closed? How did he not know the window was open?

[Anonymous]

17:27 here. i think what you've listed is fair, esp. refunding the cruise costs. i would imagine any fees to return the baby's remains to the US and burial fees. i mean, i know nothing can "fix" this but i can't see a cruise line winning any war of public opinion if they publicly say grandpa did a shitty thing. ugh,

i feel gross even typing this.

Anonymous wrote:
Define accommodate.

They've already gotten the family airfare and hotel accommodations in Puerto Rico as they're waiting for the body to be released. They also assigned caretakers/family liaisons.

I think that and a memorial of some sort would be acceptable. Plus a refund of their cruise costs.

Anything more is beyond what would be standard.

[Anonymous]

The grandpas story doesn’t make sense. He’s leaving some key details out. Like who picks up an 18 month old kid and drops it out a window? Even Michael Jackson kept a grip on his baby when he did it ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So he had her in his arms and let her lean out thinking the window was closed? How did he not know the window was open?

Vision issues maybe? An early report said he lost his balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has nothing to do with a grandparent watching a child. It could have happened to anyone. There was a low open window that should never have been open. Grandparent didn't realize it and set the child near it and child fell out.

Grandpa couldn’t see a pane of glass was missing?

My Grandma walked through a glass sliding door. Thus they have decals now so others do t do this. That poor family. My heart goes out to Granddad too. But especially to her Mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child's grandparent did something extremely stupid like this that would have caused DC's severe injury or death if not for a few lucky inches after my DC had a similar surprise reaction. And I was only feet away because it can happen that fast. DC's reaction wasn't a surprise to me because I know DC but Grandparent doesn't. Grandparents lived in a world without carseats and so some think we're all so silly with all our worrying and childproofing so they are overly lax and this is what happens. Watch your children around grandparents and don't let them guilt you into anything.

Yep. When one of my kids was 2 years old we moved cross country. I had to stay at my parents house for a week with my 2 year old and newborn while my husband drove cross country. It was summer and my mom REFUSED to turn on the air conditioner because they "get such a lovely breeze with the window open!" She wanted us to sleep with the bedroom window open, and they have very low windows that my 2 year old could EASILY reach (about waist high on him!) I was terrified that he would wake in the middle of the night and walk over to the window and fall out.

NO WAY! I kept the windows closed. It was excruciatingly hot, and she called me "an abusive mother" for not opening the windows. In hind sight I wish I had called a taxi and headed to the nearest hotel, but I was in a tough situation, just a couple weeks post partum with a newborn, 2 year old, dealing with the stress of a cross country move and my own mother actively working against me.

But yes, some grandparents certainly don't take the safety precautions they should.

[Anonymous]

Local papers in PR are reporting that the prosecutor's office is reviewing video of the ship's security cameras today. Presumably, more information will come as a result of that. They need to investigate whether there was negligence under local child protection/endangerment laws.

I personally think that, in a civil lawsuit, this would be a strong case of contributory negligence, with more of the liability falling on the grandfather than on the ship. A reasonable fact finder would conclude that the grandfather knew the window was open and chose that spot precisely because of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child's grandparent did something extremely stupid like this that would have caused DC's severe injury or death if not for a few lucky inches after my DC had a similar surprise reaction. And I was only feet away because it can happen that fast. DC's reaction wasn't a surprise to me because I know DC but Grandparent doesn't. Grandparents lived in a world without carseats and so some think we're all so silly with all our worrying and childproofing so they are overly lax and this is what happens. Watch your children around grandparents and don't let them guilt you into anything.

Yep. When one of my kids was 2 years old we moved cross country. I had to stay at my parents house for a week with my 2 year old and newborn while my husband drove cross country. It was summer and my mom REFUSED to turn on the air conditioner because they "get such a lovely breeze with the window open!" She wanted us to sleep with the bedroom window open, and they have very low windows that my 2 year old could EASILY reach (about waist high on him!) I was terrified that he would wake in the middle of the night and walk over to the window and fall out.

NO WAY! I kept the windows closed. It was excruciatingly hot, and she called me "an abusive mother" for not opening the windows. In hind sight I wish I had called a taxi and headed to the nearest hotel, but I was in a tough situation, just a couple weeks post partum with a newborn, 2 year old, dealing with the stress of a cross country move and my own mother actively working against me.

But yes, some grandparents certainly don't take the safety precautions they should.

They lived in a different world. And horrific accidents, even deaths were much more common when they were growing up. My parents, my former in laws, and DH’s mom all have horrible scars from accidents that today would result in a CPS investigation. They all had loving parents. Just the sense of vigilance and accountability was so much lower. Kids regularly were left at home at 5. My dad walked clear across a city every day at 4. If your toddler fell out a window, you weren’t a bad parent, you were unlucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he had her in his arms and let her lean out thinking the window was closed? How did he not know the window was open?

Vision issues maybe? An early report said he lost his balance.

Forget vision - you can FEEL an open window. He wasn't 30 feet away, but right next to it. Grandpa has to be making the "I didn't know the window was open" part up.

The toddler could have easily looked out the window from the closed ground portion of the floor-to-ceiling windows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Local papers in PR are reporting that the prosecutor's office is reviewing video of the ship's security cameras today. Presumably, more information will come as a result of that. They need to investigate whether there was negligence under local child protection/endangerment laws.

I personally think that, in a civil lawsuit, this would be a strong case of contributory negligence, with more of the liability falling on the grandfather than on the ship. A reasonable fact finder would conclude that the grandfather knew the window was open and chose that spot precisely because of that.

This could go incredibly wrong for the family and the grandfather. The fact that this happened in a U.S. territory, with federal and criminal statutes, means they will not be able to escape prosecution if it comes down to it.