Montgomery County zoning: Council wants to change zoning throughout the county to multi-family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county CAN and SHOULD enforce shanty rental properties. There should be fines, this is a goldmine. I don't like the idea of changing zoning. We do NOT need new laws or codes, enforce what's already in place. Codes and laws are race and citizen and class blind. stop being afraid to pursue certain communities.

They should. The current housing market is *just* starting to clear the illegal multifamily rentals / rooming houses from my neighborhood.

You're fortunate! And, I'm glad to hear that.

We've had a mix. Some of the recent sales have been turned into boarding houses/multifamily rentals. Some have been sold to young families.

I think the problem is that young families might not want to buy a home that has previously been a boarding house rental because often times the work done on those homes was not done up to code. It can be a costly endeavor to repair all the work that was shoddily done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The county CAN and SHOULD enforce shanty rental properties. There should be fines, this is a goldmine. I don't like the idea of changing zoning. We do NOT need new laws or codes, enforce what's already in place. Codes and laws are race and citizen and class blind. stop being afraid to pursue certain communities.

We have learned that it's not quite that simple. Though it probably should be.

What happens, is the landlord claims that he's renting to 'family' or that there is only one family living in the home. Neighbors know that is not the case. But, it's truly impossible for the County to prove how many 'unrelated' boarders. They can easily claim to be 'related'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county CAN and SHOULD enforce shanty rental properties. There should be fines, this is a goldmine. I don't like the idea of changing zoning. We do NOT need new laws or codes, enforce what's already in place. Codes and laws are race and citizen and class blind. stop being afraid to pursue certain communities.

We have learned that it's not quite that simple. Though it probably should be.

What happens, is the landlord claims that he's renting to 'family' or that there is only one family living in the home. Neighbors know that is not the case. But, it's truly impossible for the County to prove how many 'unrelated' boarders. They can easily claim to be 'related'.

...boarders?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county CAN and SHOULD enforce shanty rental properties. There should be fines, this is a goldmine. I don't like the idea of changing zoning. We do NOT need new laws or codes, enforce what's already in place. Codes and laws are race and citizen and class blind. stop being afraid to pursue certain communities.

We have learned that it's not quite that simple. Though it probably should be.

What happens, is the landlord claims that he's renting to 'family' or that there is only one family living in the home. Neighbors know that is not the case. But, it's truly impossible for the County to prove how many 'unrelated' boarders. They can easily claim to be 'related'.

...boarders?

Not sure what you're asking?

A boarder is someone who rents a room in someone's house. In MoCo, you're allowed to have a boarder if you live in the home. These illegal rentals are owned by investors, who rent the rooms to illegal, unrelated boarders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And this is why wealthy liberals continue to vote for policies that encourage illegal immigration. Because it doesn’t affect them in a meaningful way. If their neighborhoods and school were actually being affected by the issues, maybe they would be more empathetic as to what middle class families in the County are facing.

Do you even live in Montgomery County?

Rockville's West End is zoned for Beall ES.

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/BeallES.pdf

Are you the same poster as the next two posts?? What is your point. Yes, it's zoned for Beall ES. It's not zoned for Weller Road, or Wheaton Woods ES.

Percentage of ESOL at Beall is 18%. Not very high.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02207.pdf

18% is nearly 1 in 5 which is pretty high. It's 25% FARMS. I guess you're comparing it to neighborhoods that are dominated by people from central america?

I guess we’ll have to disagree about that. 18% is quite low compared to many schools in the County.

Beall isn’t even designated as a Focus school and is certainly not Title 1.

Different argument, but i guess that makes a good argument for busing.

Title 1 has nothing to do with this multi-family zoning unless you're afraid of poor people. I'm not sure how Beall would be a good argument for busing? It's extremely diverse. 25% asian, 12% black, 24% hispanic, 34% white. You can look at the link you submitted. Good luck using that as the poster child for busing.

Title 1 designation has everything to do with having a large number of FARMS students. You were arguing that Beall has a high percentage of FARMS students. It does not. It has a wealthier student population compared to many other schools in the County.

I'm sorry, I still dno't get the relevance to busing or how this is a poster child for that? Busing is being proposed to make schools diverse, which Beall is.

It sounds like you're saying that Beall is rich because it "only" 25% FARMS? I don't get how that's rich? That means one in four students need food assistance. It doesn't mean the other 3 out of 4 are wealthy. Not being on free and reduced meals does not mean you are wealthy. It means you are not in poverty, big difference.

I'm the PP.

Look, you are welcome to disagree as I said already. My kids attend a Focus school that has a higher FARMS and a higher ESOL rate. So, in my perspective, Beall is a wealthier area. Your kids maybe attend a wealthier school than Beall.

I think they say something like once you go over 30% FARMS and 30% ESOL, that is when the school environment gets more challenging. I feel that 18% is pretty low.

And, the busing thing is definitely not related, but I thought busing was to spread out the ESOL and FARMS rates over different schools. The 18% is on the lower end, IMO.

18% ESOL is about average in the county, so Beall is about average, not high or low in ESOL, but average.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/county.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And this is why wealthy liberals continue to vote for policies that encourage illegal immigration. Because it doesn’t affect them in a meaningful way. If their neighborhoods and school were actually being affected by the issues, maybe they would be more empathetic as to what middle class families in the County are facing.

Do you even live in Montgomery County?

Rockville's West End is zoned for Beall ES.

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/BeallES.pdf

Are you the same poster as the next two posts?? What is your point. Yes, it's zoned for Beall ES. It's not zoned for Weller Road, or Wheaton Woods ES.

Percentage of ESOL at Beall is 18%. Not very high.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02207.pdf

18% is nearly 1 in 5 which is pretty high. It's 25% FARMS. I guess you're comparing it to neighborhoods that are dominated by people from central america?

I guess we’ll have to disagree about that. 18% is quite low compared to many schools in the County.

Beall isn’t even designated as a Focus school and is certainly not Title 1.

Different argument, but i guess that makes a good argument for busing.

Title 1 has nothing to do with this multi-family zoning unless you're afraid of poor people. I'm not sure how Beall would be a good argument for busing? It's extremely diverse. 25% asian, 12% black, 24% hispanic, 34% white. You can look at the link you submitted. Good luck using that as the poster child for busing.

Title 1 designation has everything to do with having a large number of FARMS students. You were arguing that Beall has a high percentage of FARMS students. It does not. It has a wealthier student population compared to many other schools in the County.

I'm sorry, I still dno't get the relevance to busing or how this is a poster child for that? Busing is being proposed to make schools diverse, which Beall is.

It sounds like you're saying that Beall is rich because it "only" 25% FARMS? I don't get how that's rich? That means one in four students need food assistance. It doesn't mean the other 3 out of 4 are wealthy. Not being on free and reduced meals does not mean you are wealthy. It means you are not in poverty, big difference.

I'm the PP.

Look, you are welcome to disagree as I said already. My kids attend a Focus school that has a higher FARMS and a higher ESOL rate. So, in my perspective, Beall is a wealthier area. Your kids maybe attend a wealthier school than Beall.

I think they say something like once you go over 30% FARMS and 30% ESOL, that is when the school environment gets more challenging. I feel that 18% is pretty low.

And, the busing thing is definitely not related, but I thought busing was to spread out the ESOL and FARMS rates over different schools. The 18% is on the lower end, IMO.

18% ESOL is about average in the county, so Beall is about average, not high or low in ESOL, but average.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/county.pdf

I get the feeling that she bought an inexpensive house in an iffy pyramid to save money and now she cannot see how slanted her views are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And this is why wealthy liberals continue to vote for policies that encourage illegal immigration. Because it doesn’t affect them in a meaningful way. If their neighborhoods and school were actually being affected by the issues, maybe they would be more empathetic as to what middle class families in the County are facing.

Do you even live in Montgomery County?

Rockville's West End is zoned for Beall ES.

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/BeallES.pdf

Are you the same poster as the next two posts?? What is your point. Yes, it's zoned for Beall ES. It's not zoned for Weller Road, or Wheaton Woods ES.

Percentage of ESOL at Beall is 18%. Not very high.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02207.pdf

18% is nearly 1 in 5 which is pretty high. It's 25% FARMS. I guess you're comparing it to neighborhoods that are dominated by people from central america?

I guess we’ll have to disagree about that. 18% is quite low compared to many schools in the County.

Beall isn’t even designated as a Focus school and is certainly not Title 1.

Different argument, but i guess that makes a good argument for busing.

Title 1 has nothing to do with this multi-family zoning unless you're afraid of poor people. I'm not sure how Beall would be a good argument for busing? It's extremely diverse. 25% asian, 12% black, 24% hispanic, 34% white. You can look at the link you submitted. Good luck using that as the poster child for busing.

Title 1 designation has everything to do with having a large number of FARMS students. You were arguing that Beall has a high percentage of FARMS students. It does not. It has a wealthier student population compared to many other schools in the County.

I'm sorry, I still dno't get the relevance to busing or how this is a poster child for that? Busing is being proposed to make schools diverse, which Beall is.

It sounds like you're saying that Beall is rich because it "only" 25% FARMS? I don't get how that's rich? That means one in four students need food assistance. It doesn't mean the other 3 out of 4 are wealthy. Not being on free and reduced meals does not mean you are wealthy. It means you are not in poverty, big difference.

I'm the PP.

Look, you are welcome to disagree as I said already. My kids attend a Focus school that has a higher FARMS and a higher ESOL rate. So, in my perspective, Beall is a wealthier area. Your kids maybe attend a wealthier school than Beall.

I think they say something like once you go over 30% FARMS and 30% ESOL, that is when the school environment gets more challenging. I feel that 18% is pretty low.

And, the busing thing is definitely not related, but I thought busing was to spread out the ESOL and FARMS rates over different schools. The 18% is on the lower end, IMO.

18% ESOL is about average in the county, so Beall is about average, not high or low in ESOL, but average.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/county.pdf

I get the feeling that she bought an inexpensive house in an iffy pyramid to save money and now she cannot see how slanted her views are.

I get the feeling you own a $600K house and have no idea how wealthy that makes you seem to pretty much 98% of the country. So out of touch to think that a house worth over a half million dollars makes you 'middle class' in the United States.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county CAN and SHOULD enforce shanty rental properties. There should be fines, this is a goldmine. I don't like the idea of changing zoning. We do NOT need new laws or codes, enforce what's already in place. Codes and laws are race and citizen and class blind. stop being afraid to pursue certain communities.

We have learned that it's not quite that simple. Though it probably should be.

What happens, is the landlord claims that he's renting to 'family' or that there is only one family living in the home. Neighbors know that is not the case. But, it's truly impossible for the County to prove how many 'unrelated' boarders. They can easily claim to be 'related'.

...boarders?

Not sure what you're asking?

A boarder is someone who rents a room in someone's house. In MoCo, you're allowed to have a boarder if you live in the home. These illegal rentals are owned by investors, who rent the rooms to illegal, unrelated boarders.

Generally one would call them renters, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I get the feeling that she bought an inexpensive house in an iffy pyramid to save money and now she cannot see how slanted her views are.

I get the feeling you own a $600K house and have no idea how wealthy that makes you seem to pretty much 98% of the country. So out of touch to think that a house worth over a half million dollars makes you 'middle class' in the United States.

It doesn't *make you* middle class. But certainly one can own (have a mortgage on) a $500,000 house and be middle class in the US. $500,000 is below the median list price in Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I get the feeling that she bought an inexpensive house in an iffy pyramid to save money and now she cannot see how slanted her views are.

I get the feeling you own a $600K house and have no idea how wealthy that makes you seem to pretty much 98% of the country. So out of touch to think that a house worth over a half million dollars makes you 'middle class' in the United States.

It doesn't *make you* middle class. But certainly one can own (have a mortgage on) a $500,000 house and be middle class in the US. $500,000 is below the median list price in Montgomery County.

you also have to factor in cost of living and this area is more expensive than 98% of the country. It's all relative

[Anonymous]

This is an odd proposal considering MoCo has a surplus of inventory of homes for sale and for rent. Rents are not rising fast here other than maybe in Bethesda. Most areas that do this have a housing shortage.

For MoCo this is likely to only benefit developers and not citizens. It is also likely to further depress areas that are at or past the beltway and sitting on tons of inventory. This would be hurtful to areas like Silver Spring / Wheaton, Rockville and up county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an odd proposal considering MoCo has a surplus of inventory of homes for sale and for rent. Rents are not rising fast here other than maybe in Bethesda. Most areas that do this have a housing shortage.

For MoCo this is likely to only benefit developers and not citizens. It is also likely to further depress areas that are at or past the beltway and sitting on tons of inventory. This would be hurtful to areas like Silver Spring / Wheaton, Rockville and up county.

What information do you base this statement on?

Montgomery County has a housing shortage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an odd proposal considering MoCo has a surplus of inventory of homes for sale and for rent. Rents are not rising fast here other than maybe in Bethesda. Most areas that do this have a housing shortage.

For MoCo this is likely to only benefit developers and not citizens. It is also likely to further depress areas that are at or past the beltway and sitting on tons of inventory. This would be hurtful to areas like Silver Spring / Wheaton, Rockville and up county.

What information do you base this statement on?

Montgomery County has a housing shortage.

What's your evidence for that? It may have an affordable housing shortage in certain areas, but that's true of many expensive parts of the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an odd proposal considering MoCo has a surplus of inventory of homes for sale and for rent. Rents are not rising fast here other than maybe in Bethesda. Most areas that do this have a housing shortage.

For MoCo this is likely to only benefit developers and not citizens. It is also likely to further depress areas that are at or past the beltway and sitting on tons of inventory. This would be hurtful to areas like Silver Spring / Wheaton, Rockville and up county.

What information do you base this statement on?

Montgomery County has a housing shortage.

What's your evidence for that? It may have an affordable housing shortage in certain areas, but that's true of many expensive parts of the country.

This is about rental housing: https://montgomeryplanning.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/RentalHousingSheet.pdf

This is about all housing (starts on p. 45): https://montgomeryplanning.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/MP_TrendsReport_final.pdf

And then, you know, there's the fact that housing costs are so high. Why are housing costs so high? Because demand exceeds supply.

[Anonymous]

Here's a link to a letter that came from Elrich that gives answers to some of the frequently asked questions.

https://montgomerycountymd.gov/exec/newsletter/2019/5-30.html

Here's one area that concerns me:

What are the proposed size limitations for these detached ADUs?

Council staff summaries of the PHED Committee discussions refer to limiting the size to the least of "50 percent of the gross floor area of the principal dwelling or 10 percent of the lot area or 1,200 square feet of gross-floor area." It isn't clear whether gross-floor area refers to the footprint of the principal dwelling or the gross-floor area of all levels of the principal dwelling. The detached ADU can be up to 20 feet (2 stories) high. There is also a provision to allow an ADU up to 32 feet long (i.e. a trailer or manufactured home).

If this passes, your neighbor can build or place a two story building in their backyard. Let's say you live on a lot that is slightly over a quarter of an acre. If the county doesn't increase the lot coverage, you can cover 30% of your property with structure. If you have a 2400 square foot house, you could build a two story structure of just shy of 1200 square feet in the backyard, which is a good sized house. NOT a tiny house. Sewer and power would need to run back there. While it seems so unlikely that people could afford to do that, investors can do it. And you pay the price when your property is devalued and your enjoyment of your property is compromised. If the county allows and encourages this by changing the zoning, this will happen and there's no way around it. As the current law stands, you can already set up a basement apartment for rent and you can convert a detached garage to an apartment. You can already get rental income from your property if you desire.

Another issue to consider is the council's assertion that relatives will be living in the backyard house. This cannot happen forever because people die eventually. Furthermore, there is absolutely no way for the county to regulate that. This has too much potential for ADU owners to build oversized structures that encroach on their neighbor's rights to enjoy their property. It is unethical and should be opposed.