Montgomery County zoning: Council wants to change zoning throughout the county to multi-family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be PP in a similar situation where the owner is illegally renting to a family here’s what you do:

We had that happen in our neighborhood, we repeatedly made complaints until the families were gone. I’m afraid to list the neighborhood in MoCo. There were no less than 15 people living in one 4 bedroom home. They never cut the grass, their unwanted trash/mail would fly over on other’s properties. There would be loud/drunken parties past all hours of the night on the weekends. Some of the young teens would skip school and have ‘mid-day parties. Someone hit our parked car (we caught it on camera). Concerned neighbors raised cane, we had a rotation of neighbors call the county or write an email everyday. Stay vigilant, we do not want California ‘progressive’ laws out here. San Francisco is not a pretty city, behind the dirt there.

Thanks for the concrete suggestions. Neighbors are definitely unhappy about the situation. We have the same issues - parties (fine on weekends, but even during the week?!), trash everywhere, etc.

DP. Yes, the parties.....

This used to be a decent family neighborhood, with everyone realizing that schoolchildren need their sleep, and it was quiet in the evenings. Now, at least two or three evenings a week, the house behind my parents' house has large, loud parties that go until 2:00 a.m. I've seen many adults come in and out of that house, along with small children. I wouldn't be surprised if 15 people, including an assortment of children, were renting there.

And yes, the police have been called a multiple of times. It gets quiet for a week or so, and then it starts up again. Why aren't these people evicted? Are MoCo officials so in favor of illegal immigrants that they let them get away with behavior unacceptable from legal residents me citizens?

It is almost impossible to get these tenants evicted. We have been fighting one house like this on our block for over a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overcrowded houses are due to the reality that many of those individuals are undocumented. It’s not necessarily due to the cost of rent. They can’t get an apartment because they are paid cash and cannot produce the necessary paperwork.

This.

It’s a win-win. Landlords get to collect cash only rent that they don’t pay taxes on. Tenants get a place to live.

So, it’s not an issue of there not being any empty apartments.

This was passed to give illegal immigrants options for rentals.

I can just imagine those law-ignoring landlords eagerly lobbying the county council to pass another regulation for them to ignore.

Wait, what?

No landlords had to lobby the county council. The County Council wants illegal immigrants to feel welcome and have rental options.

In case you were wondering why your arguments didn't persuade the County Council to see matters your way? It's because you live in an alternate universe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overcrowded houses are due to the reality that many of those individuals are undocumented. It’s not necessarily due to the cost of rent. They can’t get an apartment because they are paid cash and cannot produce the necessary paperwork.

This.

It’s a win-win. Landlords get to collect cash only rent that they don’t pay taxes on. Tenants get a place to live.

So, it’s not an issue of there not being any empty apartments.

This was passed to give illegal immigrants options for rentals.

Agree. And with their upside liberal priorities, they are more concerned with giving illegals a place to live than they are with the ne horrible consequences the law will have on American families and their neighborhoods.

And schools. MCPS has been suffering mightily. Especially in neighborhoods where illegal immigrants from all over the world have built large communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overcrowded houses are due to the reality that many of those individuals are undocumented. It’s not necessarily due to the cost of rent. They can’t get an apartment because they are paid cash and cannot produce the necessary paperwork.

This.

It’s a win-win. Landlords get to collect cash only rent that they don’t pay taxes on. Tenants get a place to live.

So, it’s not an issue of there not being any empty apartments.

This was passed to give illegal immigrants options for rentals.

I can just imagine those law-ignoring landlords eagerly lobbying the county council to pass another regulation for them to ignore.

Wait, what?

No landlords had to lobby the county council. The County Council wants illegal immigrants to feel welcome and have rental options.

In case you were wondering why your arguments didn't persuade the County Council to see matters your way? It's because you live in an alternate universe.

It feels that way.

Montgomery County has become a universe where the politicians cater to people who have brazenly broken federal law. The leadership prioritizes illegal immigrants over all else. It absolutely seems surreal, somewhat like an alternate universe where the County no longer cares about its own citizens as much as it does about people who come here illegally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overcrowded houses are due to the reality that many of those individuals are undocumented. It’s not necessarily due to the cost of rent. They can’t get an apartment because they are paid cash and cannot produce the necessary paperwork.

This.

It’s a win-win. Landlords get to collect cash only rent that they don’t pay taxes on. Tenants get a place to live.

So, it’s not an issue of there not being any empty apartments.

This was passed to give illegal immigrants options for rentals.

I can just imagine those law-ignoring landlords eagerly lobbying the county council to pass another regulation for them to ignore.

Wait, what?

No landlords had to lobby the county council. The County Council wants illegal immigrants to feel welcome and have rental options.

In case you were wondering why your arguments didn't persuade the County Council to see matters your way? It's because you live in an alternate universe.

It feels that way.

Montgomery County has become a universe where the politicians cater to people who have brazenly broken federal law. The leadership prioritizes illegal immigrants over all else. It absolutely seems surreal, somewhat like an alternate universe where the County no longer cares about its own citizens as much as it does about people who come here illegally.

I know. It's unreal what has become of this county, when my parents bought out here, fifty years ago and with two young children, they selected this county largely for its excellent school system and healthy family environment. Now the neighborhood is looks like its something out of a 3rd world country. Cars all over place, overgrown front lawns with weeds, and overflowing trash cans on trash day.

There is so little parking that I came home one night to find the next door neighbor's car blocking my driveway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overcrowded houses are due to the reality that many of those individuals are undocumented. It’s not necessarily due to the cost of rent. They can’t get an apartment because they are paid cash and cannot produce the necessary paperwork.

This.

It’s a win-win. Landlords get to collect cash only rent that they don’t pay taxes on. Tenants get a place to live.

So, it’s not an issue of there not being any empty apartments.

This was passed to give illegal immigrants options for rentals.

I can just imagine those law-ignoring landlords eagerly lobbying the county council to pass another regulation for them to ignore.

Wait, what?

No landlords had to lobby the county council. The County Council wants illegal immigrants to feel welcome and have rental options.

In case you were wondering why your arguments didn't persuade the County Council to see matters your way? It's because you live in an alternate universe.

It feels that way.

Montgomery County has become a universe where the politicians cater to people who have brazenly broken federal law. The leadership prioritizes illegal immigrants over all else. It absolutely seems surreal, somewhat like an alternate universe where the County no longer cares about its own citizens as much as it does about people who come here illegally.

I know. It's unreal what has become of this county, when my parents bought out here, fifty years ago and with two young children, they selected this county largely for its excellent school system and healthy family environment. Now the neighborhood is looks like its something out of a 3rd world country. Cars all over place, overgrown front lawns with weeds, and overflowing trash cans on trash day.

There is so little parking that I came home one night to find the next door neighbor's car blocking my driveway.

All. The. Time.

This happens to my one neighbor all the time. She has called the cops, and they will ticket, but it takes them at least an hour to come out (it's a non-emergency), and it happens again and again. There is supposed to be a law that cars need to be several feet from a driveway, but that is routinely ignored in many neighborhoods. And, there is little enforcement.

[Anonymous]

So to the people living in Wheaton, Rockville, and other areas where this is going to destroy neighborhoods, what would you suggest my mother do? She's elderly, and really does not want to sell the house. But she and and I see firsthand what has become of this formerly (upper) middle class neighborhood, and the property values. Should I encourage her to sell? It's a very nice house - 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, finished basement, hardwood floors throughout, updated bathrooms and kitchen, but they're barely getting $450,000. One house sold for $325,000 (not a typo), but it had been rented out to single men for years, and it was probably completely trashed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So to the people living in Wheaton, Rockville, and other areas where this is going to destroy neighborhoods, what would you suggest my mother do? She's elderly, and really does not want to sell the house. But she and and I see firsthand what has become of this formerly (upper) middle class neighborhood, and the property values. Should I encourage her to sell? It's a very nice house - 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, finished basement, hardwood floors throughout, updated bathrooms and kitchen, but they're barely getting $450,000. One house sold for $325,000 (not a typo), but it had been rented out to single men for years, and it was probably completely trashed.

It won't.

But yes, she should sell the house, so that she's not living by herself in a four-bedroom house where she has to drive to get anywhere. The older you get, the less sustainable that way of life is - and the harder it is to move.

Have you considered a granny flat for her in your own home? Either a basement apartment, or a little house in the back yard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So to the people living in Wheaton, Rockville, and other areas where this is going to destroy neighborhoods, what would you suggest my mother do? She's elderly, and really does not want to sell the house. But she and and I see firsthand what has become of this formerly (upper) middle class neighborhood, and the property values. Should I encourage her to sell? It's a very nice house - 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, finished basement, hardwood floors throughout, updated bathrooms and kitchen, but they're barely getting $450,000. One house sold for $325,000 (not a typo), but it had been rented out to single men for years, and it was probably completely trashed.

Does she still feel safe there? If so, and she does not want to sell, it would be tough to force her to move.

We hope to move within the next two years (saving up) but we have kids in school and want them in a better environment.

As long as your mom feels safe and can get around the house, maybe let her stay? Until she can’t manage it anymore. Then move her to Leisure World.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I know. It's unreal what has become of this county, when my parents bought out here, fifty years ago and with two young children, they selected this county largely for its excellent school system and healthy family environment. Now the neighborhood is looks like its something out of a 3rd world country. Cars all over place, overgrown front lawns with weeds, and overflowing trash cans on trash day.

There is so little parking that I came home one night to find the next door neighbor's car blocking my driveway.

50 years ago was 1969 (when the population of Montgomery County was 523,000). A lot has changed since then. It would be unrealistic to expect your parents' neighborhood to remain unchanged.

Why doesn't your next door neighbor park in in their driveway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So to the people living in Wheaton, Rockville, and other areas where this is going to destroy neighborhoods, what would you suggest my mother do? She's elderly, and really does not want to sell the house. But she and and I see firsthand what has become of this formerly (upper) middle class neighborhood, and the property values. Should I encourage her to sell? It's a very nice house - 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, finished basement, hardwood floors throughout, updated bathrooms and kitchen, but they're barely getting $450,000. One house sold for $325,000 (not a typo), but it had been rented out to single men for years, and it was probably completely trashed.

It won't.

But yes, she should sell the house, so that she's not living by herself in a four-bedroom house where she has to drive to get anywhere. The older you get, the less sustainable that way of life is - and the harder it is to move.

Have you considered a granny flat for her in your own home? Either a basement apartment, or a little house in the back yard.

It will. Once the school’s are sub-par, the neighborhood has already been destroyed. Adding in these additional ADUs will make a bad situation worse.

But if Granny has the money to stay and since she ha no kids in school, whether she leaves now or later probably does not make much difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know. It's unreal what has become of this county, when my parents bought out here, fifty years ago and with two young children, they selected this county largely for its excellent school system and healthy family environment. Now the neighborhood is looks like its something out of a 3rd world country. Cars all over place, overgrown front lawns with weeds, and overflowing trash cans on trash day.

There is so little parking that I came home one night to find the next door neighbor's car blocking my driveway.

50 years ago was 1969 (when the population of Montgomery County was 523,000). A lot has changed since then. It would be unrealistic to expect your parents' neighborhood to remain unchanged.

Why doesn't your next door neighbor park in in their driveway?

DP

Because the neighbor already has 3 other cars parked in their own driveway.

That is why this is a problem.

These neighborhoods were meant for single families. Not four families in one house with 7 vehicles. There is simply not enough room to park all the cars when you have multiple families, with multiple cars living in one home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know. It's unreal what has become of this county, when my parents bought out here, fifty years ago and with two young children, they selected this county largely for its excellent school system and healthy family environment. Now the neighborhood is looks like its something out of a 3rd world country. Cars all over place, overgrown front lawns with weeds, and overflowing trash cans on trash day.

There is so little parking that I came home one night to find the next door neighbor's car blocking my driveway.

50 years ago was 1969 (when the population of Montgomery County was 523,000). A lot has changed since then. It would be unrealistic to expect your parents' neighborhood to remain unchanged.

Why doesn't your next door neighbor park in in their driveway?

DP

Because the neighbor already has 3 other cars parked in their own driveway.

That is why this is a problem.

These neighborhoods were meant for single families. Not four families in one house with 7 vehicles. There is simply not enough room to park all the cars when you have multiple families, with multiple cars living in one home.

No, I was asking the specific PP about the specific PP's specific neighbor.

As for whom or what the neighborhoods were "meant for" - it's not like they were "meant for" an elderly woman to live by herself in a four-bedroom house, either. I really don't care whom or what the neighborhoods were "meant for", when they were built in the 1950s and 1960s. It's 2019.

It sounds like you live in a neighborhood where everybody needs a car to get around. That's why there are so many cars. It's also probably one reason why the neighborhoods aren't in demand by the kind of people you'd like to have as your neighbors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know. It's unreal what has become of this county, when my parents bought out here, fifty years ago and with two young children, they selected this county largely for its excellent school system and healthy family environment. Now the neighborhood is looks like its something out of a 3rd world country. Cars all over place, overgrown front lawns with weeds, and overflowing trash cans on trash day.

There is so little parking that I came home one night to find the next door neighbor's car blocking my driveway.

50 years ago was 1969 (when the population of Montgomery County was 523,000). A lot has changed since then. It would be unrealistic to expect your parents' neighborhood to remain unchanged.

Why doesn't your next door neighbor park in in their driveway?

DP

Because the neighbor already has 3 other cars parked in their own driveway.

That is why this is a problem.

These neighborhoods were meant for single families. Not four families in one house with 7 vehicles. There is simply not enough room to park all the cars when you have multiple families, with multiple cars living in one home.

No, I was asking the specific PP about the specific PP's specific neighbor.

As for whom or what the neighborhoods were "meant for" - it's not like they were "meant for" an elderly woman to live by herself in a four-bedroom house, either. I really don't care whom or what the neighborhoods were "meant for", when they were built in the 1950s and 1960s. It's 2019.

It sounds like you live in a neighborhood where everybody needs a car to get around. That's why there are so many cars. It's also probably one reason why the neighborhoods aren't in demand by the kind of people you'd like to have as your neighbors.

Why not?

Basically your answer is that this elderly lady needs to move because you disapprove of her living in her own home.

She (and maybe her husband) purchased a home decades ago. Why does she have to move because you think her home is too large for her? Maybe she has grandkids who come to visit and stay over. Maybe she's not ready to move into assisted living. Maybe she feels comfortable in the house and simply wants to stay.

Whatever the reason, her house is 'meant for' her. And, she should get to stay in it and be comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know. It's unreal what has become of this county, when my parents bought out here, fifty years ago and with two young children, they selected this county largely for its excellent school system and healthy family environment. Now the neighborhood is looks like its something out of a 3rd world country. Cars all over place, overgrown front lawns with weeds, and overflowing trash cans on trash day.

There is so little parking that I came home one night to find the next door neighbor's car blocking my driveway.

50 years ago was 1969 (when the population of Montgomery County was 523,000). A lot has changed since then. It would be unrealistic to expect your parents' neighborhood to remain unchanged.

Why doesn't your next door neighbor park in in their driveway?

DP

Because the neighbor already has 3 other cars parked in their own driveway.

That is why this is a problem.

These neighborhoods were meant for single families. Not four families in one house with 7 vehicles. There is simply not enough room to park all the cars when you have multiple families, with multiple cars living in one home.

No, I was asking the specific PP about the specific PP's specific neighbor.

As for whom or what the neighborhoods were "meant for" - it's not like they were "meant for" an elderly woman to live by herself in a four-bedroom house, either. I really don't care whom or what the neighborhoods were "meant for", when they were built in the 1950s and 1960s. It's 2019.

It sounds like you live in a neighborhood where everybody needs a car to get around. That's why there are so many cars. It's also probably one reason why the neighborhoods aren't in demand by the kind of people you'd like to have as your neighbors.

Why not?

Basically your answer is that this elderly lady needs to move because you disapprove of her living in her own home.

She (and maybe her husband) purchased a home decades ago. Why does she have to move because you think her home is too large for her? Maybe she has grandkids who come to visit and stay over. Maybe she's not ready to move into assisted living. Maybe she feels comfortable in the house and simply wants to stay.

Whatever the reason, her house is 'meant for' her. And, she should get to stay in it and be comfortable.

Because they weren't. They were built for white mother-father-multiple-children-at-home families with one car, during the Baby Boom.

Now do you understand why the "meant for" argument is irrelevant?