Larger women in ads for Target and Athleta

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hope the sales continue or increase in support of this move, so that it keeps coming and all of our barometers are shifted over time until this becomes normal to us.

Do you work in health care? I do, in direct patient care. In a facility that primarily serves the two demographics with the highest rates of obesity in the United States.

I deeply, passionately hope that our societal barometers do not permanently shift, so that morbid obesity is normalized. Or even obesity. Both are undeniably independent risk factors for disease and mortality. We knew this already but Covid has put this reality in stark relief. Obese people obviously should not closet themselves and be publicly shamed. But neither should DISEASE be promoted and normalized as if it's just another rational option among many.

I mean, why not go back to allowing smoking ads? Showing smokers in catalogues like we did in the 60s? Smokers deserve our compassion, too. Normalizing cigarettes on Instagram could reduce the stigma smokers feel and lead the public to be more accepting of their choice to take up smoking in the first place and the difficulty they face in trying to quit.

Of course that's patently ridiculous. Yet a growing chorus would like to normalize a comorbidity that unequivocally contributes to multiple cancers, diabetes and heart disease.

The women who respond to this by saying they're significantly overweight with "great labs" and normal blood pressure will not be able to say this after age 40 or so. I've never once, not once, treated an obese patient >50 years who was otherwise disease-free.

OMG. Can you read? Go back and reread my post. I was talking about the fact that healthy does not equal stick thin. Healthy still comes in many shapes and sizes. I was talking about the fact that what we have been trained to consider "healthy" in images in the mass market is not, in fact, what most healthy women look like. Women make themselves sick in a variety of way to look like those images. I was saying that what women judge to be morbidly obese from many so-called "plus-sized" models are not, in reality, morbidly obese. I am not advocating normalizing morbid obesity. I am advocating normalizing healthy.

Images in catalogs and media should show what the true range of healthy is.

Take a breath and reread posts if you need to before you go stark raving.

Different poster. I think you are really the one who is confused about the whole argument. No one - literally no one - wrote or even implied that models should be stick-thin. You are just making up this statement because it is easy to argue with.

Now look at this Cosmopolitan cover that literally says that obese is *healthy*. Wtf? It is not healthy, it's been proven, and saying obesity is healthy is just nuts. Really like saying smoking is healthy, the pp is spot on.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9131253/amp/Row-new-plus-size-Cosmopolitan-cover-accused-glamourising-obesity.html

But stick thin is literally what 98% of runway models are, and about 80% of catalogue models. That is reality, and no one’s making it up (but you’re pretending it’s not real).

And obesity is not inherently unhealthy. I don’t like being obese, but listening to uninformed fat shamers makes me see red. Read this: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/health-you-asked/can-you-be-obese-still-be-healthy They don’t claim that obesity is a totally healthy condition, but a triumvirate of other conditions - diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol - are far more indicative of ill health.

And for those of you just absolutely totally completely obsessed with the health of people, maybe worry more about the skinny fat https://time.com/14407/the-hidden-dangers-of-skinny-fat/ and skinny people who resort to disordered eating and other unhealthy behaviors (like taking drugs) to maintain their size.

The jig is up. We know you don’t care about health, you just think we’re disgusting, abhorrent un-people who don’t deserve to see ourselves reflected anywhere unless it comes with shaming.

+1

Very well said.

I am also glad Jeff keeps the worst of them on a very tight leash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the CDC: “ The risk of developing dangerous symptoms of COVID-19 may be increased in people who are older and also in people of any age who have other serious health problems — such as heart or lung conditions, weakened immune systems, severe obesity, or diabetes. This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses, such as influenza.”

Obesity should not be normalized, nor promoted as a healthy lifestyle. This COVID pandemic should have been a wake up call. The previous healthcare worker is spot on.

+10000

Curvy, thick, is one thing - people are definitely born with predispositions to store fat differently on different parts of their body. Seriously obese is another, and isn't any different than advertising a smoker with a a cig in their hand, but dressed in activewear.

That is a valid point about cigarette advertising. I remember running into convenience stores in the mid 70s to buy carton of cigarettes for my parents and singing the jingles from cigarette ads. Totally seemed normal and socially acceptable at the time. Fast forward, now we all know health consequences of smoking. I don’t think I’ve been around anyone who smokes cigarettes in probably 25+ years. I know people still smoke, but I think it is overall benefit to society that we are not bombarded with advertisements .

[Anonymous]

I just received the catalogue OP is talking about, and I think it's worse than I perceived. The cover wraps around from the front to the back with 8 women. And 6 of them are obese, a few of them morbidly so. The 2 healthy/athletic weight women are on the back.

Being inclusive is one thing, but this seems like a straight up plus size catalogue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just received the catalogue OP is talking about, and I think it's worse than I perceived. The cover wraps around from the front to the back with 8 women. And 6 of them are obese, a few of them morbidly so. The 2 healthy/athletic weight women are on the back.

Being inclusive is one thing, but this seems like a straight up plus size catalogue.

The nerve! All those fatties in one place and wearing workout clothes, clothing meant just for skinnies? Don’t those lardos know they should just be sitting and being fat? No fat woman should be able to look at workout clothing and think, “hey, that’s something I could buy and wear.”

Do you also btch about the fairly new inclusion of Black and minority women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the CDC: “ The risk of developing dangerous symptoms of COVID-19 may be increased in people who are older and also in people of any age who have other serious health problems — such as heart or lung conditions, weakened immune systems, severe obesity, or diabetes. This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses, such as influenza.”

Obesity should not be normalized, nor promoted as a healthy lifestyle. This COVID pandemic should have been a wake up call. The previous healthcare worker is spot on.

+10000

Curvy, thick, is one thing - people are definitely born with predispositions to store fat differently on different parts of their body. Seriously obese is another, and isn't any different than advertising a smoker with a a cig in their hand, but dressed in activewear.

That is a valid point about cigarette advertising. I remember running into convenience stores in the mid 70s to buy carton of cigarettes for my parents and singing the jingles from cigarette ads. Totally seemed normal and socially acceptable at the time. Fast forward, now we all know health consequences of smoking. I don’t think I’ve been around anyone who smokes cigarettes in probably 25+ years. I know people still smoke, but I think it is overall benefit to society that we are not bombarded with advertisements .

Do you not understand how advertising works? Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just received the catalogue OP is talking about, and I think it's worse than I perceived. The cover wraps around from the front to the back with 8 women. And 6 of them are obese, a few of them morbidly so. The 2 healthy/athletic weight women are on the back.

Being inclusive is one thing, but this seems like a straight up plus size catalogue.

The nerve! All those fatties in one place and wearing workout clothes, clothing meant just for skinnies? Don’t those lardos know they should just be sitting and being fat? No fat woman should be able to look at workout clothing and think, “hey, that’s something I could buy and wear.”

Do you also btch about the fairly new inclusion of Black and minority women?

I'm sure that PP doesn't like seeing anyone who isn't an underweight white woman anywhere, let alone in advertising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the CDC: “ The risk of developing dangerous symptoms of COVID-19 may be increased in people who are older and also in people of any age who have other serious health problems — such as heart or lung conditions, weakened immune systems, severe obesity, or diabetes. This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses, such as influenza.”

Obesity should not be normalized, nor promoted as a healthy lifestyle. This COVID pandemic should have been a wake up call. The previous healthcare worker is spot on.

+10000

Curvy, thick, is one thing - people are definitely born with predispositions to store fat differently on different parts of their body. Seriously obese is another, and isn't any different than advertising a smoker with a a cig in their hand, but dressed in activewear.

That is a valid point about cigarette advertising. I remember running into convenience stores in the mid 70s to buy carton of cigarettes for my parents and singing the jingles from cigarette ads. Totally seemed normal and socially acceptable at the time. Fast forward, now we all know health consequences of smoking. I don’t think I’ve been around anyone who smokes cigarettes in probably 25+ years. I know people still smoke, but I think it is overall benefit to society that we are not bombarded with advertisements .

Sadly, it’s possibly not a coincidence that obesity has gone up — as smoking has gone down. I agree with you in all of this. I can also remember women smoking “ to maintain (their) figures”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the CDC: “ The risk of developing dangerous symptoms of COVID-19 may be increased in people who are older and also in people of any age who have other serious health problems — such as heart or lung conditions, weakened immune systems, severe obesity, or diabetes. This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses, such as influenza.”

Obesity should not be normalized, nor promoted as a healthy lifestyle. This COVID pandemic should have been a wake up call. The previous healthcare worker is spot on.

+10000

Curvy, thick, is one thing - people are definitely born with predispositions to store fat differently on different parts of their body. Seriously obese is another, and isn't any different than advertising a smoker with a a cig in their hand, but dressed in activewear.

That is a valid point about cigarette advertising. I remember running into convenience stores in the mid 70s to buy carton of cigarettes for my parents and singing the jingles from cigarette ads. Totally seemed normal and socially acceptable at the time. Fast forward, now we all know health consequences of smoking. I don’t think I’ve been around anyone who smokes cigarettes in probably 25+ years. I know people still smoke, but I think it is overall benefit to society that we are not bombarded with advertisements .

Sadly, it’s possibly not a coincidence that obesity has gone up — as smoking has gone down. I agree with you in all of this. I can also remember women smoking “ to maintain (their) figures”.

I don’t know if you watched The Crown on Netflix. Some younger friends of mine commented how all the Royals were smoking throughout the series. It was totally socially accepted to smoke at the time. The comparison to normalizing morbid obesity in advertising with cigarette smoking is valid, in my opinion. People today know the health risks of obesity, unlike smoking cigarettes in the 70s. Each person can decide which health risks she wants to take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the CDC: “ The risk of developing dangerous symptoms of COVID-19 may be increased in people who are older and also in people of any age who have other serious health problems — such as heart or lung conditions, weakened immune systems, severe obesity, or diabetes. This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses, such as influenza.”

Obesity should not be normalized, nor promoted as a healthy lifestyle. This COVID pandemic should have been a wake up call. The previous healthcare worker is spot on.

+10000

Curvy, thick, is one thing - people are definitely born with predispositions to store fat differently on different parts of their body. Seriously obese is another, and isn't any different than advertising a smoker with a a cig in their hand, but dressed in activewear.

That is a valid point about cigarette advertising. I remember running into convenience stores in the mid 70s to buy carton of cigarettes for my parents and singing the jingles from cigarette ads. Totally seemed normal and socially acceptable at the time. Fast forward, now we all know health consequences of smoking. I don’t think I’ve been around anyone who smokes cigarettes in probably 25+ years. I know people still smoke, but I think it is overall benefit to society that we are not bombarded with advertisements .

Sadly, it’s possibly not a coincidence that obesity has gone up — as smoking has gone down. I agree with you in all of this. I can also remember women smoking “ to maintain (their) figures”.

I don’t know if you watched The Crown on Netflix. Some younger friends of mine commented how all the Royals were smoking throughout the series. It was totally socially accepted to smoke at the time. The comparison to normalizing morbid obesity in advertising with cigarette smoking is valid, in my opinion. People today know the health risks of obesity, unlike smoking cigarettes in the 70s. Each person can decide which health risks she wants to take.

It's only a valid comparison to people with poor logic skills and a basic lack of understanding about advertising, but okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the CDC: “ The risk of developing dangerous symptoms of COVID-19 may be increased in people who are older and also in people of any age who have other serious health problems — such as heart or lung conditions, weakened immune systems, severe obesity, or diabetes. This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses, such as influenza.”

Obesity should not be normalized, nor promoted as a healthy lifestyle. This COVID pandemic should have been a wake up call. The previous healthcare worker is spot on.

+10000

Curvy, thick, is one thing - people are definitely born with predispositions to store fat differently on different parts of their body. Seriously obese is another, and isn't any different than advertising a smoker with a a cig in their hand, but dressed in activewear.

That is a valid point about cigarette advertising. I remember running into convenience stores in the mid 70s to buy carton of cigarettes for my parents and singing the jingles from cigarette ads. Totally seemed normal and socially acceptable at the time. Fast forward, now we all know health consequences of smoking. I don’t think I’ve been around anyone who smokes cigarettes in probably 25+ years. I know people still smoke, but I think it is overall benefit to society that we are not bombarded with advertisements .

Sadly, it’s possibly not a coincidence that obesity has gone up — as smoking has gone down. I agree with you in all of this. I can also remember women smoking “ to maintain (their) figures”.

I don’t know if you watched The Crown on Netflix. Some younger friends of mine commented how all the Royals were smoking throughout the series. It was totally socially accepted to smoke at the time. The comparison to normalizing morbid obesity in advertising with cigarette smoking is valid, in my opinion. People today know the health risks of obesity, unlike smoking cigarettes in the 70s. Each person can decide which health risks she wants to take.

It's only a valid comparison to people with poor logic skills and a basic lack of understanding about advertising, but okay.

+1
I posted a link above about how it isn’t obesity that is an inherent health risk. But that info gets ignored, as does the Obesity Paradox.

Enjoy being skinny and unhappy all the time, mean girls. You get the face you deserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just received the catalogue OP is talking about, and I think it's worse than I perceived. The cover wraps around from the front to the back with 8 women. And 6 of them are obese, a few of them morbidly so. The 2 healthy/athletic weight women are on the back.

Being inclusive is one thing, but this seems like a straight up plus size catalogue.

But most of America is either plus size or morbidly obese, so it would make sense to advertise to them? When will this country stop pretending that it's full of thin people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just received the catalogue OP is talking about, and I think it's worse than I perceived. The cover wraps around from the front to the back with 8 women. And 6 of them are obese, a few of them morbidly so. The 2 healthy/athletic weight women are on the back.

Being inclusive is one thing, but this seems like a straight up plus size catalogue.

But most of America is either plus size or morbidly obese, so it would make sense to advertise to them? When will this country stop pretending that it's full of thin people?

I looked up the online catalog. Most models were fit or within a healthy BMI.

[Anonymous]

How is being able to see what clothes will look like on my body “glamorizing” obesity? Representation isn’t glamour. I don’t see fat models and forget about the health risks of being fat. I don’t see thin models and remember suddenly that I need to be losing weight.

The fact is, it is nearly impossible for a very overweight person to become and stay thin. A lack of access to clothes and a lack of representation isn’t going to change that.

[Anonymous]

After reading this thread, I placed my first Athleta order in years. I am happy they have more inclusive sizing and models.

Body size is not always in the control of the individual. There are so many conditions and medications that mess with your metabolism. And it isn’t my place to judge anyone else’s circumstances.

I applaud a company that is making it easier for everyone to have comfortable clothes for physical activity. Shame isn’t good for anyone.

[Anonymous]

Ooo shocking that Target wants to make money by selling stuff. They are betting that they'll sell more stuff using this catalog to offset the sales they'll lose by people being turned off by it. With what I know of Target's marketing prowess, I'd take that bet.