Larger women in ads for Target and Athleta

[Anonymous]

I think the point is about helping people actually envision themselves in the clothes the way they are supposed to look on many different bodies. The reviews section tends to help people choose whether a fit will be right for them, thus cutting down on returns (e.g., "I'm 5'1 and 152 lbs and this was way too tight in the hips, but the length was perfect for once"). This is another step in the same direction. They are letting people actually see how the clothes fit different body types. It is useless to see a tall model in a size 2, and envision that same outfit on you if you are a short size 14. You are almost guaranteed to return the item and post a bad review.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I hope the sales continue or increase in support of this move, so that it keeps coming and all of our barometers are shifted over time until this becomes normal to us.

Do you work in health care? I do, in direct patient care. In a facility that primarily serves the two demographics with the highest rates of obesity in the United States.

I deeply, passionately hope that our societal barometers do not permanently shift, so that morbid obesity is normalized. Or even obesity. Both are undeniably independent risk factors for disease and mortality. We knew this already but Covid has put this reality in stark relief. Obese people obviously should not closet themselves and be publicly shamed. But neither should DISEASE be promoted and normalized as if it's just another rational option among many.

I mean, why not go back to allowing smoking ads? Showing smokers in catalogues like we did in the 60s? Smokers deserve our compassion, too. Normalizing cigarettes on Instagram could reduce the stigma smokers feel and lead the public to be more accepting of their choice to take up smoking in the first place and the difficulty they face in trying to quit.

Of course that's patently ridiculous. Yet a growing chorus would like to normalize a comorbidity that unequivocally contributes to multiple cancers, diabetes and heart disease.

The women who respond to this by saying they're significantly overweight with "great labs" and normal blood pressure will not be able to say this after age 40 or so. I've never once, not once, treated an obese patient >50 years who was otherwise disease-free.

OMG. Can you read? Go back and reread my post. I was talking about the fact that healthy does not equal stick thin. Healthy still comes in many shapes and sizes. I was talking about the fact that what we have been trained to consider "healthy" in images in the mass market is not, in fact, what most healthy women look like. Women make themselves sick in a variety of way to look like those images. I was saying that what women judge to be morbidly obese from many so-called "plus-sized" models are not, in reality, morbidly obese. I am not advocating normalizing morbid obesity. I am advocating normalizing healthy.

Images in catalogs and media should show what the true range of healthy is.

Take a breath and reread posts if you need to before you go stark raving.

[Anonymous]

Target seemed to stop carrying plus size exercise clothes in their stores for a while, so this thread made me aware they might have them again.

I unfortunately have hashimotos and exercise daily and watch my food intake. Still overweight though, and I still need clothing for exercising.

Also assume that since most Americans are larger than the dcum demographic, retailers want to sell to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hope the sales continue or increase in support of this move, so that it keeps coming and all of our barometers are shifted over time until this becomes normal to us.

Do you work in health care? I do, in direct patient care. In a facility that primarily serves the two demographics with the highest rates of obesity in the United States.

I deeply, passionately hope that our societal barometers do not permanently shift, so that morbid obesity is normalized. Or even obesity. Both are undeniably independent risk factors for disease and mortality. We knew this already but Covid has put this reality in stark relief. Obese people obviously should not closet themselves and be publicly shamed. But neither should DISEASE be promoted and normalized as if it's just another rational option among many.

I mean, why not go back to allowing smoking ads? Showing smokers in catalogues like we did in the 60s? Smokers deserve our compassion, too. Normalizing cigarettes on Instagram could reduce the stigma smokers feel and lead the public to be more accepting of their choice to take up smoking in the first place and the difficulty they face in trying to quit.

Of course that's patently ridiculous. Yet a growing chorus would like to normalize a comorbidity that unequivocally contributes to multiple cancers, diabetes and heart disease.

The women who respond to this by saying they're significantly overweight with "great labs" and normal blood pressure will not be able to say this after age 40 or so. I've never once, not once, treated an obese patient >50 years who was otherwise disease-free.

OMG. Can you read? Go back and reread my post. I was talking about the fact that healthy does not equal stick thin. Healthy still comes in many shapes and sizes. I was talking about the fact that what we have been trained to consider "healthy" in images in the mass market is not, in fact, what most healthy women look like. Women make themselves sick in a variety of way to look like those images. I was saying that what women judge to be morbidly obese from many so-called "plus-sized" models are not, in reality, morbidly obese. I am not advocating normalizing morbid obesity. I am advocating normalizing healthy.

Images in catalogs and media should show what the true range of healthy is.

Take a breath and reread posts if you need to before you go stark raving.

Different poster. I think you are really the one who is confused about the whole argument. No one - literally no one - wrote or even implied that models should be stick-thin. You are just making up this statement because it is easy to argue with.

Now look at this Cosmopolitan cover that literally says that obese is *healthy*. Wtf? It is not healthy, it's been proven, and saying obesity is healthy is just nuts. Really like saying smoking is healthy, the pp is spot on.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9131253/amp/Row-new-plus-size-Cosmopolitan-cover-accused-glamourising-obesity.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hope the sales continue or increase in support of this move, so that it keeps coming and all of our barometers are shifted over time until this becomes normal to us.

Do you work in health care? I do, in direct patient care. In a facility that primarily serves the two demographics with the highest rates of obesity in the United States.

I deeply, passionately hope that our societal barometers do not permanently shift, so that morbid obesity is normalized. Or even obesity. Both are undeniably independent risk factors for disease and mortality. We knew this already but Covid has put this reality in stark relief. Obese people obviously should not closet themselves and be publicly shamed. But neither should DISEASE be promoted and normalized as if it's just another rational option among many.

I mean, why not go back to allowing smoking ads? Showing smokers in catalogues like we did in the 60s? Smokers deserve our compassion, too. Normalizing cigarettes on Instagram could reduce the stigma smokers feel and lead the public to be more accepting of their choice to take up smoking in the first place and the difficulty they face in trying to quit.

Of course that's patently ridiculous. Yet a growing chorus would like to normalize a comorbidity that unequivocally contributes to multiple cancers, diabetes and heart disease.

The women who respond to this by saying they're significantly overweight with "great labs" and normal blood pressure will not be able to say this after age 40 or so. I've never once, not once, treated an obese patient >50 years who was otherwise disease-free.

Except that’s one hundred percent what you freaky fat shamers want. You want all of us obese people to feel fat, to understand that you, “a healthcare worker” has never, not once, “treated” an obese patient who was otherwise disease free. You know what I wish for you fat shamers, every single time I read one of your concern trolling posts? I wish morbid obesity for each of you. I wish for you a series of occurrences - some within your control and some out - that creates for you a body that is constantly patrolled, shamed, tsk’d at, vilified, difficult to shop for, for then perhaps you might grow a shred of humanity. But I have doubts.

Your “patients” know how you think. And they feel nothing but scorn for you, too, kiddo.

+1

Also, PP isn't a good health care worker if she is insisting that she has no obese patients over 50 who are otherwise disease-free. It means her observational abilities aren't good. I feel really sorry for her patients.

[Anonymous]

From the CDC: “ The risk of developing dangerous symptoms of COVID-19 may be increased in people who are older and also in people of any age who have other serious health problems — such as heart or lung conditions, weakened immune systems, severe obesity, or diabetes. This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses, such as influenza.”

Obesity should not be normalized, nor promoted as a healthy lifestyle. This COVID pandemic should have been a wake up call. The previous healthcare worker is spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the CDC: “ The risk of developing dangerous symptoms of COVID-19 may be increased in people who are older and also in people of any age who have other serious health problems — such as heart or lung conditions, weakened immune systems, severe obesity, or diabetes. This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses, such as influenza.”

Obesity should not be normalized, nor promoted as a healthy lifestyle. This COVID pandemic should have been a wake up call. The previous healthcare worker is spot on.

You are just slow. My God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the CDC: “ The risk of developing dangerous symptoms of COVID-19 may be increased in people who are older and also in people of any age who have other serious health problems — such as heart or lung conditions, weakened immune systems, severe obesity, or diabetes. This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses, such as influenza.”

Obesity should not be normalized, nor promoted as a healthy lifestyle. This COVID pandemic should have been a wake up call. The previous healthcare worker is spot on.

+10000

Curvy, thick, is one thing - people are definitely born with predispositions to store fat differently on different parts of their body. Seriously obese is another, and isn't any different than advertising a smoker with a a cig in their hand, but dressed in activewear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the CDC: “ The risk of developing dangerous symptoms of COVID-19 may be increased in people who are older and also in people of any age who have other serious health problems — such as heart or lung conditions, weakened immune systems, severe obesity, or diabetes. This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses, such as influenza.”

Obesity should not be normalized, nor promoted as a healthy lifestyle. This COVID pandemic should have been a wake up call. The previous healthcare worker is spot on.

+10000

Curvy, thick, is one thing - people are definitely born with predispositions to store fat differently on different parts of their body. Seriously obese is another, and isn't any different than advertising a smoker with a a cig in their hand, but dressed in activewear.

Okay. Do you feel better saying stuff like this. Does it make you feel smart?

Look, you and your counterparts in this thread have not shown literally any evidence to suggest that size-inclusive advertising has literally any impact on rates of obesity. Literally nothing. What we do have is copious evidence that shame and derision has not done anything to stop increasing rates of obesity. You keep talking about " normalization" as though you do not understand what the term means, and maybe you are slow (seems like it). Obese already IS normal based on percentage of population. So what precisely do you mean by "normalization"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love when sites show two or more models of different body types/sizes wearing the same thing. It really helps me get a sense of how the clothing will look on me.

I love that. Especially when the person is a 6 or 8, since that is what I am. I especially like when they say the model’s height.

Love this and think it should be a standard. Also on board with the 6 to 8 models and extrapolating from there, or having multiple models showing the clothing. I am 5'6 and a size 2-4. The previous size 0 and 5'11 wasn't all that accurate, but after that being the standard forever I could kind of get it. I definitely have no idea whatsoever how something would look on me on al size 20 model. Can we split the difference and either show multiple body types or go with some sort of "medium" sized person?

Or a shorter person. I’d love to see a size medium person who’s 5’4” which is what a lot of retail customers at these places are.

[Anonymous]

I am size 14 in tops because I have enormous boobs. It's hereditary. So does my mum.

I"m nearly 50 and I have waist within the safe parameter. I exercise every day. etc. Guess what, I'm curvy. All the size shamers can piss off. I LOVE that companies are finally showing clothes on curvier women. A stick thin model in them tells me nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love when sites show two or more models of different body types/sizes wearing the same thing. It really helps me get a sense of how the clothing will look on me.

I love that. Especially when the person is a 6 or 8, since that is what I am. I especially like when they say the model’s height.

Love this and think it should be a standard. Also on board with the 6 to 8 models and extrapolating from there, or having multiple models showing the clothing. I am 5'6 and a size 2-4. The previous size 0 and 5'11 wasn't all that accurate, but after that being the standard forever I could kind of get it. I definitely have no idea whatsoever how something would look on me on al size 20 model. Can we split the difference and either show multiple body types or go with some sort of "medium" sized person?

Or a shorter person. I’d love to see a size medium person who’s 5’4” which is what a lot of retail customers at these places are.

Thirty years ago, I worked in the fashion industry. The average size woman was 5’4” and a size 12. The company I worked for had to design for this woman. I don’t know what the current average is, but from a sales standpoint, it’s useful to for women to see themselves in ads so they can imagine clothing fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hope the sales continue or increase in support of this move, so that it keeps coming and all of our barometers are shifted over time until this becomes normal to us.

Do you work in health care? I do, in direct patient care. In a facility that primarily serves the two demographics with the highest rates of obesity in the United States.

I deeply, passionately hope that our societal barometers do not permanently shift, so that morbid obesity is normalized. Or even obesity. Both are undeniably independent risk factors for disease and mortality. We knew this already but Covid has put this reality in stark relief. Obese people obviously should not closet themselves and be publicly shamed. But neither should DISEASE be promoted and normalized as if it's just another rational option among many.

I mean, why not go back to allowing smoking ads? Showing smokers in catalogues like we did in the 60s? Smokers deserve our compassion, too. Normalizing cigarettes on Instagram could reduce the stigma smokers feel and lead the public to be more accepting of their choice to take up smoking in the first place and the difficulty they face in trying to quit.

Of course that's patently ridiculous. Yet a growing chorus would like to normalize a comorbidity that unequivocally contributes to multiple cancers, diabetes and heart disease.

The women who respond to this by saying they're significantly overweight with "great labs" and normal blood pressure will not be able to say this after age 40 or so. I've never once, not once, treated an obese patient >50 years who was otherwise disease-free.

OMG. Can you read? Go back and reread my post. I was talking about the fact that healthy does not equal stick thin. Healthy still comes in many shapes and sizes. I was talking about the fact that what we have been trained to consider "healthy" in images in the mass market is not, in fact, what most healthy women look like. Women make themselves sick in a variety of way to look like those images. I was saying that what women judge to be morbidly obese from many so-called "plus-sized" models are not, in reality, morbidly obese. I am not advocating normalizing morbid obesity. I am advocating normalizing healthy.

Images in catalogs and media should show what the true range of healthy is.

Take a breath and reread posts if you need to before you go stark raving.

Different poster. I think you are really the one who is confused about the whole argument. No one - literally no one - wrote or even implied that models should be stick-thin. You are just making up this statement because it is easy to argue with.

Now look at this Cosmopolitan cover that literally says that obese is *healthy*. Wtf? It is not healthy, it's been proven, and saying obesity is healthy is just nuts. Really like saying smoking is healthy, the pp is spot on.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9131253/amp/Row-new-plus-size-Cosmopolitan-cover-accused-glamourising-obesity.html

No, it is you and the other PP who are missing my point. The very first line of my PP that she quotes is that I don't support normalizing morbid obesity. The point of my post is that the images of women for the past decades have eroded our ability to gauge what a healthy body can look like. I don't think most of the models being used as "plus-size" in current catalogs qualify as morbidly obese, but you have the PPs on here who are so disgusted by normal-sized healthy bodies that they throw that term re: anyone who isn't traditional model size.

You are misunderstanding my post completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I hope the sales continue or increase in support of this move, so that it keeps coming and all of our barometers are shifted over time until this becomes normal to us.

Do you work in health care? I do, in direct patient care. In a facility that primarily serves the two demographics with the highest rates of obesity in the United States.

I deeply, passionately hope that our societal barometers do not permanently shift, so that morbid obesity is normalized. Or even obesity. Both are undeniably independent risk factors for disease and mortality. We knew this already but Covid has put this reality in stark relief. Obese people obviously should not closet themselves and be publicly shamed. But neither should DISEASE be promoted and normalized as if it's just another rational option among many.

I mean, why not go back to allowing smoking ads? Showing smokers in catalogues like we did in the 60s? Smokers deserve our compassion, too. Normalizing cigarettes on Instagram could reduce the stigma smokers feel and lead the public to be more accepting of their choice to take up smoking in the first place and the difficulty they face in trying to quit.

Of course that's patently ridiculous. Yet a growing chorus would like to normalize a comorbidity that unequivocally contributes to multiple cancers, diabetes and heart disease.

The women who respond to this by saying they're significantly overweight with "great labs" and normal blood pressure will not be able to say this after age 40 or so. I've never once, not once, treated an obese patient >50 years who was otherwise disease-free.

OMG. Can you read? Go back and reread my post. I was talking about the fact that healthy does not equal stick thin. Healthy still comes in many shapes and sizes. I was talking about the fact that what we have been trained to consider "healthy" in images in the mass market is not, in fact, what most healthy women look like. Women make themselves sick in a variety of way to look like those images. I was saying that what women judge to be morbidly obese from many so-called "plus-sized" models are not, in reality, morbidly obese. I am not advocating normalizing morbid obesity. I am advocating normalizing healthy.

Images in catalogs and media should show what the true range of healthy is.

Take a breath and reread posts if you need to before you go stark raving.

Different poster. I think you are really the one who is confused about the whole argument. No one - literally no one - wrote or even implied that models should be stick-thin. You are just making up this statement because it is easy to argue with.

Now look at this Cosmopolitan cover that literally says that obese is *healthy*. Wtf? It is not healthy, it's been proven, and saying obesity is healthy is just nuts. Really like saying smoking is healthy, the pp is spot on.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9131253/amp/Row-new-plus-size-Cosmopolitan-cover-accused-glamourising-obesity.html

But stick thin is literally what 98% of runway models are, and about 80% of catalogue models. That is reality, and no one’s making it up (but you’re pretending it’s not real).

And obesity is not inherently unhealthy. I don’t like being obese, but listening to uninformed fat shamers makes me see red. Read this: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/health-you-asked/can-you-be-obese-still-be-healthy They don’t claim that obesity is a totally healthy condition, but a triumvirate of other conditions - diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol - are far more indicative of ill health.

And for those of you just absolutely totally completely obsessed with the health of people, maybe worry more about the skinny fat https://time.com/14407/the-hidden-dangers-of-skinny-fat/ and skinny people who resort to disordered eating and other unhealthy behaviors (like taking drugs) to maintain their size.

The jig is up. We know you don’t care about health, you just think we’re disgusting, abhorrent un-people who don’t deserve to see ourselves reflected anywhere unless it comes with shaming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love when sites show two or more models of different body types/sizes wearing the same thing. It really helps me get a sense of how the clothing will look on me.

I love that. Especially when the person is a 6 or 8, since that is what I am. I especially like when they say the model’s height.

Love this and think it should be a standard. Also on board with the 6 to 8 models and extrapolating from there, or having multiple models showing the clothing. I am 5'6 and a size 2-4. The previous size 0 and 5'11 wasn't all that accurate, but after that being the standard forever I could kind of get it. I definitely have no idea whatsoever how something would look on me on al size 20 model. Can we split the difference and either show multiple body types or go with some sort of "medium" sized person?

Or a shorter person. I’d love to see a size medium person who’s 5’4” which is what a lot of retail customers at these places are.

Thirty years ago, I worked in the fashion industry. The average size woman was 5’4” and a size 12. The company I worked for had to design for this woman. I don’t know what the current average is, but from a sales standpoint, it’s useful to for women to see themselves in ads so they can imagine clothing fit.

The average women is still 5'4" but is a size 16-18. And that is probably another few sizes bigger than what a 16-18 would have been 30 yrs ago, if it even existed. Size 12 30 yrs ago is probably a size 8 today.