Why is it that the higher up you go in the social ladder, the more enforced gender norms are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So because I chose to stay at home and take care of my husband and kids, YOU DON'T RESPECT ME? UNBELIEVABLE!

BTW plenty of working class men work very hard & are willing & able to take care of their families (and respect their stay at home wives.)

Nope, just don’t respect you in 2018 choosing not to be independent. You are dependent on a man for his money. You accepted to take a second chair in the relationship. Why is that unbelievable?

I could throw you a bone and state I’m sure you’re a great Mom. But, you could suck at Mom too. Don’t know you.

Let’s not kid ourselves. Ultimate respect is independence. You are a dependent and likely treated as a child in any really big decisions. You chose this path.

This choice appears across economic strata. Some women choose to have less power and independence. Lots of women work very hard, are willing and able to raise families as a single Mom. You’d probably judge her inferior for not finding some man to finance her life.

You are a kept woman when you don’t make you’re own money. And you most definitely kowtow to the money supply.

I'm not the person you're responding to, but it strikes me that retirement, or a layoff, or a health crisis is going to be very painful for you, if you believe only money = dignity.

[Anonymous]

Second, it saddens me that society so demeans SAHMs. My wife is my co-equal. But more astonishingly, how so many working women tear down SAHMs, like your only worth in life is feeding into the capitalist machine and earning ever so much more money.

Society doesn’t anything. Women have contempt for other women who earn less, or who didn’t go to as prestigious a school. Or who wear a shorter skirt.

[Anonymous]

FACE IT FOLKS -- We ALL wish we had a stay-at-home spouse to do everything for us.

Even my wife wants a wife. So to speak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Man here, big law partner, and two observations for what it's worth.

First, most of my partners are male, most of them married to highly educated women who dropped out of the workforce when the kids came. No one needs the money at this level, and something has to give. Honestly, this is the big advantage men have over women in the upper ranks of professions: we have someone at home that handles everything so we can focus on client development.

Second, it saddens me that society so demeans SAHMs. My wife is my co-equal. But more astonishingly, how so many working women tear down SAHMs, like your only worth in life is feeding into the capitalist machine and earning ever so much more money. Dare I say it, my wife's life surrounded by our children is far more rewarding and in retrospect than the endless commercial litigation between fortune 100s over patent disputes that I deal with.

Until men like you give a damn about work/life balance, or maternity leave, or flex in jobs to attend to family matters nothing will change with your Work First culture.

Ever go to your firm's minority events or work/life balance talks? Probably not. Too busy grinding away to get ahead. Ahead of what you say? Getting something to the client faster? Faster than what? Faster than your peer? Faster than some chump at the other firm?

Think about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FACE IT FOLKS -- We ALL wish we had a stay-at-home spouse to do everything for us.

Even my wife wants a wife. So to speak.

bring back the caste system. where is my cook, cleaner, driver, two nannies so I can lunch more!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Man here, big law partner, and two observations for what it's worth.

First, most of my partners are male, most of them married to highly educated women who dropped out of the workforce when the kids came. No one needs the money at this level, and something has to give. Honestly, this is the big advantage men have over women in the upper ranks of professions: we have someone at home that handles everything so we can focus on client development.

Second, it saddens me that society so demeans SAHMs. My wife is my co-equal. But more astonishingly, how so many working women tear down SAHMs, like your only worth in life is feeding into the capitalist machine and earning ever so much more money. Dare I say it, my wife's life surrounded by our children is far more rewarding and in retrospect than the endless commercial litigation between fortune 100s over patent disputes that I deal with.

This! I can honestly say that my husband believes this. He runs his biggest decisions past me, for both work and our personal lives. He is not a details person. I am. I typically have a different take on situations. I had a great career before kids and we've run multiple successful businesses over the last decade. While I am technically a SAHM, he treats me as his equal and fully respects my opinions.

I don't understand why staying at home makes me less than my WOHM counterparts. I don't have to work therefore I don't but I'm not some trophy wife who spends her time on Pinterest.

PP sounds very angry and in need of some therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here, big law partner, and two observations for what it's worth.

First, most of my partners are male, most of them married to highly educated women who dropped out of the workforce when the kids came. No one needs the money at this level, and something has to give. Honestly, this is the big advantage men have over women in the upper ranks of professions: we have someone at home that handles everything so we can focus on client development.

Second, it saddens me that society so demeans SAHMs. My wife is my co-equal. But more astonishingly, how so many working women tear down SAHMs, like your only worth in life is feeding into the capitalist machine and earning ever so much more money. Dare I say it, my wife's life surrounded by our children is far more rewarding and in retrospect than the endless commercial litigation between fortune 100s over patent disputes that I deal with.

Until men like you give a damn about work/life balance, or maternity leave, or flex in jobs to attend to family matters nothing will change with your Work First culture.

Ever go to your firm's minority events or work/life balance talks? Probably not. Too busy grinding away to get ahead. Ahead of what you say? Getting something to the client faster? Faster than what? Faster than your peer? Faster than some chump at the other firm?

Think about it.

Until those in power at corporations, firms, government, etc.. decide to change the culture in a way that someone with care-giving responsibilities could also stay employed there and maybe even rise in the ranks, you're never going to see the gender diversity, racial diversity, etc.. What a shame for our economy that all of those highly educated women couldn't make it work to stay in the workforce b/c they likely would have had sole responsibility at home.

I recently had to look for a new job and was so limited in what I could apply for because my husband travels for work a lot and I need to be available for day care drop off and pick up, a lot of the jobs at my level would have required travel, and/or being available at all hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here, big law partner, and two observations for what it's worth.

First, most of my partners are male, most of them married to highly educated women who dropped out of the workforce when the kids came. No one needs the money at this level, and something has to give. Honestly, this is the big advantage men have over women in the upper ranks of professions: we have someone at home that handles everything so we can focus on client development.

Second, it saddens me that society so demeans SAHMs. My wife is my co-equal. But more astonishingly, how so many working women tear down SAHMs, like your only worth in life is feeding into the capitalist machine and earning ever so much more money. Dare I say it, my wife's life surrounded by our children is far more rewarding and in retrospect than the endless commercial litigation between fortune 100s over patent disputes that I deal with.

Until men like you give a damn about work/life balance, or maternity leave, or flex in jobs to attend to family matters nothing will change with your Work First culture.

Ever go to your firm's minority events or work/life balance talks? Probably not. Too busy grinding away to get ahead. Ahead of what you say? Getting something to the client faster? Faster than what? Faster than your peer? Faster than some chump at the other firm?

Think about it.

I'm a VP running a 50+ person global team at a Fortune 100. My wife works a similarly high powered and demanding job. Yesterday, she went in early. I got both of our kids up, dressed, fed them breakfast, helped the 2nd grader pack her backpack, put her on the bus with the other DADs (often more dads than moms at our bus stop), then drove our preschooler to preschool. I got my daughter off the bus at 4:30, and took her to swim practice where I wrote emails from my laptop while she practiced. Then I picked up our preschooler, and made dinner while my wife drove home. I helped with bath and bedtime, then took calls with Asia and wrote emails from 8:30pm to 1am. This is a pretty normal day for us; I do the majority of cooking, grocery shopping, childcare, and 50% of the cleaning. I also coach soccer.

I have plenty of parents who report to me, and am fantastic about their work-life balance. My firm offers 24 weeks of maternity and paternity leave, and I get over 60 days of leave per year (I take all of it). I both attend and give work/life balance and fatherhood talks at my large company. I have long attended both internal and external minority events, and just recently hired someone onto my team through a program designed to source disadvantaged minority applicants from inner cities. I hired her over applicants from Harvard, Cornell, and Wharton, and she's a rockstar.

It probably shatters your worldview, but I'm a white male Republican. I guess I'm part of the hated patriarchy... I have to wonder if you're not 65 and still see the world the way it was in the 1970's. This isn't mad men anymore.

[Anonymous]

Awesome, can you hire my banker husband?

[Anonymous]

But he's not the original PP with the stay at home wife letting him focus 100% on work only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here, big law partner, and two observations for what it's worth.

First, most of my partners are male, most of them married to highly educated women who dropped out of the workforce when the kids came. No one needs the money at this level, and something has to give. Honestly, this is the big advantage men have over women in the upper ranks of professions: we have someone at home that handles everything so we can focus on client development.

Second, it saddens me that society so demeans SAHMs. My wife is my co-equal. But more astonishingly, how so many working women tear down SAHMs, like your only worth in life is feeding into the capitalist machine and earning ever so much more money. Dare I say it, my wife's life surrounded by our children is far more rewarding and in retrospect than the endless commercial litigation between fortune 100s over patent disputes that I deal with.

Until men like you give a damn about work/life balance, or maternity leave, or flex in jobs to attend to family matters nothing will change with your Work First culture.

Ever go to your firm's minority events or work/life balance talks? Probably not. Too busy grinding away to get ahead. Ahead of what you say? Getting something to the client faster? Faster than what? Faster than your peer? Faster than some chump at the other firm?

Think about it.

I'm a VP running a 50+ person global team at a Fortune 100. My wife works a similarly high powered and demanding job. Yesterday, she went in early. I got both of our kids up, dressed, fed them breakfast, helped the 2nd grader pack her backpack, put her on the bus with the other DADs (often more dads than moms at our bus stop), then drove our preschooler to preschool. I got my daughter off the bus at 4:30, and took her to swim practice where I wrote emails from my laptop while she practiced. Then I picked up our preschooler, and made dinner while my wife drove home. I helped with bath and bedtime, then took calls with Asia and wrote emails from 8:30pm to 1am. This is a pretty normal day for us; I do the majority of cooking, grocery shopping, childcare, and 50% of the cleaning. I also coach soccer.

I have plenty of parents who report to me, and am fantastic about their work-life balance. My firm offers 24 weeks of maternity and paternity leave, and I get over 60 days of leave per year (I take all of it). I both attend and give work/life balance and fatherhood talks at my large company. I have long attended both internal and external minority events, and just recently hired someone onto my team through a program designed to source disadvantaged minority applicants from inner cities. I hired her over applicants from Harvard, Cornell, and Wharton, and she's a rockstar.

It probably shatters your worldview, but I'm a white male Republican. I guess I'm part of the hated patriarchy... I have to wonder if you're not 65 and still see the world the way it was in the 1970's. This isn't mad men anymore.

NP. This is a very worthwhile addition to the discussion, and I think men are too often silenced in discussions about work-life balance. Like you, my husband has spoken on panels about women in the workforce, and has been my career's biggest champion. He is great and has always been helpful at home. I worked for many years and left the workforce with a mid six-figure salary, when I became a mostly-SAHM (I still consult, but in a very scaled-back way). I suppose I fit the same mold that the original big law PP described. My DH is now an equity partner in a major international firm. He's still the amazing guy he was while I was WOH. In fact, he's super grateful, because he lived in the trenches with me for years and is fully aware of everything that goes into running a household.

Two things jump out at me here. First, there is absolutely zero chance that any man (or woman) keeping the kind of schedule you describe is a VP of anything meaningful (i.e. in the line function of the business). "VPs" are a dime a dozen, even at Fortune 100 companies, but few of them are actually critical to the business, and "VP" compensation varies wildly for this reason. There are "VPs" and then there are VPs. Many VPs, even at fortune 100 companies, never make out of the $200s. That's fine, and there's no shame in the path that you have chosen, but you are on a different career path than someone who is client-serving and pulling in seven figures. You are kind of representing yourself here as if your schedule is doable for any high-powered professional, when your position likely isn't even that high powered or highly compensated. I am not trying to tear you down here, but your post is just not reality for truly high earners or people who are client-serving.

Secondly, the typical evening you describe of answering emails through swim practice, and then again from 8:30pm-1am hardly sounds like you have any time for your marriage, exercise, sex, or anything other than work and kid-related tasks. An at-home spouse isn't always about what you're doing during the day as much as it is about what you're NOT stuck doing during the evening. Someone in your position with an at home spouse would get a lot more downtime in the evening to enjoy life, and they'd likely be able to actually get in early and get their work done during daylight hours so that they're not dragging their laptop to the pool. It is 100% okay to have two WOH spouses, but there are many good reasons for people who choose to have a SAH spouse. It often dramatically enhances the life of both members of the couple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here, big law partner, and two observations for what it's worth.

First, most of my partners are male, most of them married to highly educated women who dropped out of the workforce when the kids came. No one needs the money at this level, and something has to give. Honestly, this is the big advantage men have over women in the upper ranks of professions: we have someone at home that handles everything so we can focus on client development.

Second, it saddens me that society so demeans SAHMs. My wife is my co-equal. But more astonishingly, how so many working women tear down SAHMs, like your only worth in life is feeding into the capitalist machine and earning ever so much more money. Dare I say it, my wife's life surrounded by our children is far more rewarding and in retrospect than the endless commercial litigation between fortune 100s over patent disputes that I deal with.

Until men like you give a damn about work/life balance, or maternity leave, or flex in jobs to attend to family matters nothing will change with your Work First culture.

Ever go to your firm's minority events or work/life balance talks? Probably not. Too busy grinding away to get ahead. Ahead of what you say? Getting something to the client faster? Faster than what? Faster than your peer? Faster than some chump at the other firm?

Think about it.

Until those in power at corporations, firms, government, etc.. decide to change the culture in a way that someone with care-giving responsibilities could also stay employed there and maybe even rise in the ranks, you're never going to see the gender diversity, racial diversity, etc.. What a shame for our economy that all of those highly educated women couldn't make it work to stay in the workforce b/c they likely would have had sole responsibility at home.

I recently had to look for a new job and was so limited in what I could apply for because my husband travels for work a lot and I need to be available for day care drop off and pick up, a lot of the jobs at my level would have required travel, and/or being available at all hours.

You three are all saying the same facts. There is a workaholic in your family and a workaholic culture at the employer.

The attorney spins this to say Isn't that awesome my wife quit her career to take care of everything.
Person 2 rightfully points out that men and women need to care about balance and do it.
Person 3 points out that companies need to change the culture. companies run by.... men and women.

[Anonymous]

Clients are hell on earth.

Save your money in your 20s.

THen move to the buyside already. Or client side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man here, big law partner, and two observations for what it's worth.

First, most of my partners are male, most of them married to highly educated women who dropped out of the workforce when the kids came. No one needs the money at this level, and something has to give. Honestly, this is the big advantage men have over women in the upper ranks of professions: we have someone at home that handles everything so we can focus on client development.

Second, it saddens me that society so demeans SAHMs. My wife is my co-equal. But more astonishingly, how so many working women tear down SAHMs, like your only worth in life is feeding into the capitalist machine and earning ever so much more money. Dare I say it, my wife's life surrounded by our children is far more rewarding and in retrospect than the endless commercial litigation between fortune 100s over patent disputes that I deal with.

This! I can honestly say that my husband believes this. He runs his biggest decisions past me, for both work and our personal lives. He is not a details person. I am. I typically have a different take on situations. I had a great career before kids and we've run multiple successful businesses over the last decade. While I am technically a SAHM, he treats me as his equal and fully respects my opinions.

I don't understand why staying at home makes me less than my WOHM counterparts. I don't have to work therefore I don't but I'm not some trophy wife who spends her time on Pinterest.

PP sounds very angry and in need of some therapy.

Think on that comment for a minute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Man here, big law partner, and two observations for what it's worth.

First, most of my partners are male, most of them married to highly educated women who dropped out of the workforce when the kids came. No one needs the money at this level, and something has to give. Honestly, this is the big advantage men have over women in the upper ranks of professions: we have someone at home that handles everything so we can focus on client development.

Second, it saddens me that society so demeans SAHMs. My wife is my co-equal. But more astonishingly, how so many working women tear down SAHMs, like your only worth in life is feeding into the capitalist machine and earning ever so much more money. Dare I say it, my wife's life surrounded by our children is far more rewarding and in retrospect than the endless commercial litigation between fortune 100s over patent disputes that I deal with.

If it’s equal. Quit your job and stay at home. You wouldn’t because you get something out of the grueling work. Your wife doesn’t. It’s nowhere near equal. You know it’s true. You wouldn’t give up the endless commercial litigation for doing what your wife does daily. You know you’ve got the better end of the deal and the discourse from the likes of you about how SAHs having better, more important work is complete BS. But, you already know that.