Best school for gifted kid? Looking for differentiation.

[Anonymous]

OP -- I haven't read through all 7 pages here, but I wonder if you have called CTY and asked their advice. They might have some good suggestions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We knew that a pressure cooker wouldn’t be great for him. And we decided that there are benefits to him getting near perfect grades with a moderate amount of effort. It’s not zero effort - it’s a moderate amount. Enough that he has free time each evening even with sports. And we like that.
It’s not the right decision for everyone, but he’s a sensitive perfectionist. I was worried for his mental health if we put him in a very aggressively competitive place.

I love this post so much. It mirrors my views exactly. I'd much rather have my child slightly unchallenged academically in a way that leaves much more time for extracurricular activities/sleep/fun with friends than challenged to the max and less time for non-academic pursuits.

Agree. It’s a hard decision for sure. But every kid is different. So much of this is knowing your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We started our private school journey thinking that social skills and emotional maturity were more important than a focus on intellectual achievement. We’re at a Big 3 elementary finishing up 3rd grade.

I’m starting to rethink our choices and wondering whether we made the wrong decisions, or at least should consider different choices.

Sadly, we’ve learned that our school doesn’t deal well with the emotional needs of gifted children. Our DC has the classic gifted kid emotional profile: emotional intensity, perfectionism, combined with a sensitivity that is consistently misinterpreted as “immaturity” and “overreacting.”

DC learns faster than peers, and is several years ahead of grade level in reading, math, and science. He is allowed some freedom to pursue advanced reading.However, in math and science, subjects DC loves, there is no opportunity for differentiation or advanced learning. Aside from reading, there’s no differentiation period. DC has complained for some time (since the start of 1st grade) about being bored and going over things that are too easy over and over again.

I’m wondering if it would better for DC to be in a school that allows for more differentiation in the elementary grades. Are Feynman and Nysmith the only private schools that allow gifted kids to go at their own pace? I worry about these schools lacking an overall balance. On the other hand, I remember what torture it was to be forced lockstep into a pace that didn’t fit.

It seems that schools like Sidwell, GDS, and STA don’t allow differentiation until 9th. I can see DC getting turned off from school and learning if forced to wait another six years before being allowed to pursue things at a pace that fits him.

I’m also wondering if a school that knows how to work with gifted kids’ emotional needs might be better. I worry that DC is being labeled as oversensitive, even as some teachers praise his empathy and compassion for other kids.

I know there are a lot of gifted kids at the Big 3s. I also know not all gifted kids have the emotional profile that includes intensity, perfectionism, and sensitivity. I’d appreciate if parents who have kids similar to mine could speak to their experience in the upper elementary and middle schools of the Big 3? Or, if you left for a school that specializes in gifted education, could you speak to that experience?

I was in your shoes a few years ago, exactly at the end of 3rd grade, with a DS with a high level of intensity, almost all of Dabrowski overexcitabilities (explaining the hypersensitivity), ultra perfectionism and deep frustration.

Our DS was attending an excellent K-12 private school in DC and we were really happy. He had many friends and was doing great academically. DS came home once asking why he should waste his time 8 hours at school when it takes 5 minutes to cover the material. And that was it. We talked to the school but got no support as: (i) DS was already in advanced groups in English and math and (ii) there were “other children like him who could adjust well” (yes, there are a lot of gifted children in the DC area - no, all levels of giftedness cannot be handled the same way).

What we did and worked for us:
1/ We registered DS to the CTY talent search. He qualified, took online courses and attended summer camps. DS loved the challenge and enjoyed discussing with other children interested in the same topics.
2/ We worked with the CTY diagnostic and counseling center. We were really impressed by their wide knowledge of the specifics of PG children (before any bashing, my DS is PG confirmed by testing). They gave excellent advice regarding education and social emotional aspects.
3/ Despite the fact our well regarded and sought-after private school in DC offered differentiation, it was clearly not enough for DS and we left for Nysmith. Best decision ever. I read a lot of bad things on DCUM about Nysmith but it really worked for us. We found a dedicated team who delivered 100% of what the Head of school described when we visited. Yes, the level of giftedness varies throughout a grade level, but DS managed to find true peers and to be challenged enough to come back every day from school happy. His teachers really knew who he was and how to handle his differences. We met other parents with the same questions, the same struggle, and with whom we could talk without being tagged as bragging about our child. Two main outcomes: (i) DS experienced the fact that there are “children like him” (assessed as PG as well) who struggled the same way but could settle in the right environment and (ii) he was well prepared for the next step. The experience was a real life saver.

We are now stationed in a country where they handle gifted children by offering acceleration, usually at a subject level. The school system is extremely competitive starting primary school (ranking per subject, overall ranking and GPA). The curriculum starts to be challenging at an early stage (geometry proof starts in 6th grade thus strong math foundation is already there at the end of 5th grade; all three subjects of science are taught from 6th grade onwards, two periods each; there are exams at the end of each quarter for 8 subjects out of 13). Our new school offered to accelerate DS by two full grades at once after he took the entrance exams (English, math and all three science subjects). DS begged us to accept. He adjusted well both academically and socially despite the difference of age and pressure. DS still thinks that regular school (vs. school for gifted) is not the right place to learn (repetition, pace) but knows a bit better how to handle his emotions and frustrations. He is still with the CTY and has an active life outside school. All his friends are now older than he is. It is not a problem at all even if he is just about to turn 12 and finish up 8th grade. So quite a different picture from everything that I can read on DCUM about what should be done (redshirting, differentiation rather than acceleration before HS).

We learnt along the way that we have to be flexible and adjust whenever needed. Exactly as you said, you may have to review your options periodically as what works at a certain age or under certain circumstances may no longer be relevant after a little while. IMO, there are no right answers to your questions, only answers that fit your case at this very moment.

Good luck to your family, I trust you will find a path that works for your son way before 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

PP - In your opinion, do you see these kids destined for academia? Gifted environments are their own bubbles.

[Anonymous]

Great post. good luck abroad. Is this an int'l program or mainstream school in Asia or EU, sounds great but also in a traditional, structured school way.

Quick question - did you find a progressive K-12 better or worse for a HG or PG young kid or a traditional/more structured K-12? We may also have elements of 2E given family history on one side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great post. good luck abroad. Is this an int'l program or mainstream school in Asia or EU, sounds great but also in a traditional, structured school way.

Quick question - did you find a progressive K-12 better or worse for a HG or PG young kid or a traditional/more structured K-12? We may also have elements of 2E given family history on one side.

and yes that side of the fam is all hyperfocused nutty professors academics. but they each need his own housekeeper maid to keep life in order. it's a different struggle with 2E

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We started our private school journey thinking that social skills and emotional maturity were more important than a focus on intellectual achievement. We’re at a Big 3 elementary finishing up 3rd grade.

I’m starting to rethink our choices and wondering whether we made the wrong decisions, or at least should consider different choices.

Sadly, we’ve learned that our school doesn’t deal well with the emotional needs of gifted children. Our DC has the classic gifted kid emotional profile: emotional intensity, perfectionism, combined with a sensitivity that is consistently misinterpreted as “immaturity” and “overreacting.”

DC learns faster than peers, and is several years ahead of grade level in reading, math, and science. He is allowed some freedom to pursue advanced reading.However, in math and science, subjects DC loves, there is no opportunity for differentiation or advanced learning. Aside from reading, there’s no differentiation period. DC has complained for some time (since the start of 1st grade) about being bored and going over things that are too easy over and over again.

I’m wondering if it would better for DC to be in a school that allows for more differentiation in the elementary grades. Are Feynman and Nysmith the only private schools that allow gifted kids to go at their own pace? I worry about these schools lacking an overall balance. On the other hand, I remember what torture it was to be forced lockstep into a pace that didn’t fit.

It seems that schools like Sidwell, GDS, and STA don’t allow differentiation until 9th. I can see DC getting turned off from school and learning if forced to wait another six years before being allowed to pursue things at a pace that fits him.

I’m also wondering if a school that knows how to work with gifted kids’ emotional needs might be better. I worry that DC is being labeled as oversensitive, even as some teachers praise his empathy and compassion for other kids.

I know there are a lot of gifted kids at the Big 3s. I also know not all gifted kids have the emotional profile that includes intensity, perfectionism, and sensitivity. I’d appreciate if parents who have kids similar to mine could speak to their experience in the upper elementary and middle schools of the Big 3? Or, if you left for a school that specializes in gifted education, could you speak to that experience?

I was in your shoes a few years ago, exactly at the end of 3rd grade, with a DS with a high level of intensity, almost all of Dabrowski overexcitabilities (explaining the hypersensitivity), ultra perfectionism and deep frustration.

Our DS was attending an excellent K-12 private school in DC and we were really happy. He had many friends and was doing great academically. DS came home once asking why he should waste his time 8 hours at school when it takes 5 minutes to cover the material. And that was it. We talked to the school but got no support as: (i) DS was already in advanced groups in English and math and (ii) there were “other children like him who could adjust well” (yes, there are a lot of gifted children in the DC area - no, all levels of giftedness cannot be handled the same way).

What we did and worked for us:
1/ We registered DS to the CTY talent search. He qualified, took online courses and attended summer camps. DS loved the challenge and enjoyed discussing with other children interested in the same topics.
2/ We worked with the CTY diagnostic and counseling center. We were really impressed by their wide knowledge of the specifics of PG children (before any bashing, my DS is PG confirmed by testing). They gave excellent advice regarding education and social emotional aspects.
3/ Despite the fact our well regarded and sought-after private school in DC offered differentiation, it was clearly not enough for DS and we left for Nysmith. Best decision ever. I read a lot of bad things on DCUM about Nysmith but it really worked for us. We found a dedicated team who delivered 100% of what the Head of school described when we visited. Yes, the level of giftedness varies throughout a grade level, but DS managed to find true peers and to be challenged enough to come back every day from school happy. His teachers really knew who he was and how to handle his differences. We met other parents with the same questions, the same struggle, and with whom we could talk without being tagged as bragging about our child. Two main outcomes: (i) DS experienced the fact that there are “children like him” (assessed as PG as well) who struggled the same way but could settle in the right environment and (ii) he was well prepared for the next step. The experience was a real life saver.

We are now stationed in a country where they handle gifted children by offering acceleration, usually at a subject level. The school system is extremely competitive starting primary school (ranking per subject, overall ranking and GPA). The curriculum starts to be challenging at an early stage (geometry proof starts in 6th grade thus strong math foundation is already there at the end of 5th grade; all three subjects of science are taught from 6th grade onwards, two periods each; there are exams at the end of each quarter for 8 subjects out of 13). Our new school offered to accelerate DS by two full grades at once after he took the entrance exams (English, math and all three science subjects). DS begged us to accept. He adjusted well both academically and socially despite the difference of age and pressure. DS still thinks that regular school (vs. school for gifted) is not the right place to learn (repetition, pace) but knows a bit better how to handle his emotions and frustrations. He is still with the CTY and has an active life outside school. All his friends are now older than he is. It is not a problem at all even if he is just about to turn 12 and finish up 8th grade. So quite a different picture from everything that I can read on DCUM about what should be done (redshirting, differentiation rather than acceleration before HS).

We learnt along the way that we have to be flexible and adjust whenever needed. Exactly as you said, you may have to review your options periodically as what works at a certain age or under certain circumstances may no longer be relevant after a little while. IMO, there are no right answers to your questions, only answers that fit your case at this very moment.

Good luck to your family, I trust you will find a path that works for your son way before 9th grade.

Not the OP. PP reading your post makes me feel better about my decision to move my kids to Nysmith. I know they are highly intelligent kids per IQ tests, but their school works just didn't show. I am sure not all kids in Nysmith are gifted, but it really does not matter if the school is willing to work with the individual kids that need more. Did your DS just spent 4th and 5th grade in Nysmith before moving overseas?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was in your shoes a few years ago, exactly at the end of 3rd grade, with a DS with a high level of intensity, almost all of Dabrowski overexcitabilities (explaining the hypersensitivity), ultra perfectionism and deep frustration.

Our DS was attending an excellent K-12 private school in DC and we were really happy. He had many friends and was doing great academically. DS came home once asking why he should waste his time 8 hours at school when it takes 5 minutes to cover the material. And that was it. We talked to the school but got no support as: (i) DS was already in advanced groups in English and math and (ii) there were “other children like him who could adjust well” (yes, there are a lot of gifted children in the DC area - no, all levels of giftedness cannot be handled the same way).

What we did and worked for us:
1/ We registered DS to the CTY talent search. He qualified, took online courses and attended summer camps. DS loved the challenge and enjoyed discussing with other children interested in the same topics.
2/ We worked with the CTY diagnostic and counseling center. We were really impressed by their wide knowledge of the specifics of PG children (before any bashing, my DS is PG confirmed by testing). They gave excellent advice regarding education and social emotional aspects.
3/ Despite the fact our well regarded and sought-after private school in DC offered differentiation, it was clearly not enough for DS and we left for Nysmith. Best decision ever. I read a lot of bad things on DCUM about Nysmith but it really worked for us. We found a dedicated team who delivered 100% of what the Head of school described when we visited. Yes, the level of giftedness varies throughout a grade level, but DS managed to find true peers and to be challenged enough to come back every day from school happy. His teachers really knew who he was and how to handle his differences. We met other parents with the same questions, the same struggle, and with whom we could talk without being tagged as bragging about our child. Two main outcomes: (i) DS experienced the fact that there are “children like him” (assessed as PG as well) who struggled the same way but could settle in the right environment and (ii) he was well prepared for the next step. The experience was a real life saver.

We are now stationed in a country where they handle gifted children by offering acceleration, usually at a subject level. The school system is extremely competitive starting primary school (ranking per subject, overall ranking and GPA). The curriculum starts to be challenging at an early stage (geometry proof starts in 6th grade thus strong math foundation is already there at the end of 5th grade; all three subjects of science are taught from 6th grade onwards, two periods each; there are exams at the end of each quarter for 8 subjects out of 13). Our new school offered to accelerate DS by two full grades at once after he took the entrance exams (English, math and all three science subjects). DS begged us to accept. He adjusted well both academically and socially despite the difference of age and pressure. DS still thinks that regular school (vs. school for gifted) is not the right place to learn (repetition, pace) but knows a bit better how to handle his emotions and frustrations. He is still with the CTY and has an active life outside school. All his friends are now older than he is. It is not a problem at all even if he is just about to turn 12 and finish up 8th grade. So quite a different picture from everything that I can read on DCUM about what should be done (redshirting, differentiation rather than acceleration before HS).

We learnt along the way that we have to be flexible and adjust whenever needed. Exactly as you said, you may have to review your options periodically as what works at a certain age or under certain circumstances may no longer be relevant after a little while. IMO, there are no right answers to your questions, only answers that fit your case at this very moment.

Good luck to your family, I trust you will find a path that works for your son way before 9th grade.

This is OP. PP, thank you for taking the time to write this detailed and thoughtful post. It is extremely informative and helpful. Based on the prior poster's recommendations, we were planning to call CTY but it is even more encouraging to hear your positive experiences with their programs.

Your description of Nysmith is also quite reassuring, especially hearing that the teachers have the expertise and fluidity to differentiate based on individual children's needs. We'll definitely reach out to the school.

Thank you for so generously taking the time to share your experience in depth.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all the people kindly sharing their experiences in detail.

Over the years, I've met numerous people who were radically accelerated as children (3 or more grades) -- never asked their IQs, but I assume all are PG. Some of them are in academia, but most of them are out in the business world, in a broad variety of careers. Some are super-successful; others are leading quiet lives, making good enough money to enjoy their life but not stress themselves out. They are generally obviously intellectually very sharp, but otherwise indistinguishable from other people in similar jobs.

I think for many PG children, the goal of the childhood years should not be to maximize their academic achievement. Rather, it is to preserve their love of learning and feed their thirst for knowledge/skills, prevent them from spiraling into loneliness/depression/boredom, and set them up to be able to progress that into a good college education and intellectually stimulating career (or at least help them find something that pays well enough so they can pursue other passions that might not earn money).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all the people kindly sharing their experiences in detail.

Over the years, I've met numerous people who were radically accelerated as children (3 or more grades) -- never asked their IQs, but I assume all are PG. Some of them are in academia, but most of them are out in the business world, in a broad variety of careers. Some are super-successful; others are leading quiet lives, making good enough money to enjoy their life but not stress themselves out. They are generally obviously intellectually very sharp, but otherwise indistinguishable from other people in similar jobs.

I think for many PG children, the goal of the childhood years should not be to maximize their academic achievement. Rather, it is to preserve their love of learning and feed their thirst for knowledge/skills, prevent them from spiraling into loneliness/depression/boredom, and set them up to be able to progress that into a good college education and intellectually stimulating career (or at least help them find something that pays well enough so they can pursue other passions that might not earn money).

I don't believe you that you've met numerous people who were accelerated to that degree. For one, the vast majority of public schools will not allow that much grade skipping, so are you talking about people informally functioning at 3+ grades ahead? Because that's not *that* uncommon, given how slowly most public school curricula progress.

Also, even taking the lowest IQ that is considered PG (145, according to this site: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm), you're talking about an IQ that is present in only 1 out of every 741 people--or 407 people, if you measure it on a 16 SD scale--(https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/iqtable.aspx).

So you're telling me you've met, and know the background of, numerous people who:

1) were allowed to accelerate at 3+ grades ahead in school, when most private schools don't accelerate much at all until HS, and public schools almost always don't allow that much grade skipping, and

2) have IQs that are exceedingly rare.

I call BS. You are either just BS-ing us completely, or you are vastly overestimating the intellectual capacity of your social circle.

[Anonymous]

maybe s/he works at the CIA with me. hacker room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:maybe s/he works at the CIA with me. hacker room.

?

[Anonymous]

Edlin School in Reston, VA near Vienna. It is lesser known, smaller and gifted school just like Nysmith. Its tuition is much less, about $17,000 less. When my DC was there at 6th grade, a girl at 4 th grade was taking English and Math with them. Their 6th grade studies 8-10th grade materials. Several kids came to Big 3s (Edlin school is k-8) that I know of all told me that school was very easy for them. As a matter of fact, they didn't learn anything new for a year or two in the Big 3s.

You can compare with Basis McLean, Nysmith and Edlin to see which one is best suitable to your PG child. The CTY route is too clumsy. The families whose kids are taking classes and summer camps or summer classes at CTY must joggle the schedules, online classes, no real interactions with classmates, or a school like environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all the people kindly sharing their experiences in detail.

Over the years, I've met numerous people who were radically accelerated as children (3 or more grades) -- never asked their IQs, but I assume all are PG. Some of them are in academia, but most of them are out in the business world, in a broad variety of careers. Some are super-successful; others are leading quiet lives, making good enough money to enjoy their life but not stress themselves out. They are generally obviously intellectually very sharp, but otherwise indistinguishable from other people in similar jobs.

I think for many PG children, the goal of the childhood years should not be to maximize their academic achievement. Rather, it is to preserve their love of learning and feed their thirst for knowledge/skills, prevent them from spiraling into loneliness/depression/boredom, and set them up to be able to progress that into a good college education and intellectually stimulating career (or at least help them find something that pays well enough so they can pursue other passions that might not earn money).

I don't believe you that you've met numerous people who were accelerated to that degree. For one, the vast majority of public schools will not allow that much grade skipping, so are you talking about people informally functioning at 3+ grades ahead? Because that's not *that* uncommon, given how slowly most public school curricula progress.

Also, even taking the lowest IQ that is considered PG (145, according to this site: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm), you're talking about an IQ that is present in only 1 out of every 741 people--or 407 people, if you measure it on a 16 SD scale--(https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/iqtable.aspx).

So you're telling me you've met, and know the background of, numerous people who:

1) were allowed to accelerate at 3+ grades ahead in school, when most private schools don't accelerate much at all until HS, and public schools almost always don't allow that much grade skipping, and

2) have IQs that are exceedingly rare.

I call BS. You are either just BS-ing us completely, or you are vastly overestimating the intellectual capacity of your social circle.

I wouldn’t be so confident. If you have done a ph.d program in a math heavy subject, you would have meant them. I am not the op. I must have known at least 10 people who graduated from high school before 16 when I was in graduate school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to all the people kindly sharing their experiences in detail.

Over the years, I've met numerous people who were radically accelerated as children (3 or more grades) -- never asked their IQs, but I assume all are PG. Some of them are in academia, but most of them are out in the business world, in a broad variety of careers. Some are super-successful; others are leading quiet lives, making good enough money to enjoy their life but not stress themselves out. They are generally obviously intellectually very sharp, but otherwise indistinguishable from other people in similar jobs.

I think for many PG children, the goal of the childhood years should not be to maximize their academic achievement. Rather, it is to preserve their love of learning and feed their thirst for knowledge/skills, prevent them from spiraling into loneliness/depression/boredom, and set them up to be able to progress that into a good college education and intellectually stimulating career (or at least help them find something that pays well enough so they can pursue other passions that might not earn money).

I don't believe you that you've met numerous people who were accelerated to that degree. For one, the vast majority of public schools will not allow that much grade skipping, so are you talking about people informally functioning at 3+ grades ahead? Because that's not *that* uncommon, given how slowly most public school curricula progress.

Also, even taking the lowest IQ that is considered PG (145, according to this site: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm), you're talking about an IQ that is present in only 1 out of every 741 people--or 407 people, if you measure it on a 16 SD scale--(https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/iqtable.aspx).

So you're telling me you've met, and know the background of, numerous people who:

1) were allowed to accelerate at 3+ grades ahead in school, when most private schools don't accelerate much at all until HS, and public schools almost always don't allow that much grade skipping, and

2) have IQs that are exceedingly rare.

I call BS. You are either just BS-ing us completely, or you are vastly overestimating the intellectual capacity of your social circle.

I wouldn’t be so confident. If you have done a ph.d program in a math heavy subject, you would have meant them. I am not the op. I must have known at least 10 people who graduated from high school before 16 when I was in graduate school.

Ok, maybe they're all in those programs. However:

- I graduated from a NE prep school typically ranked in the top 1 or 2 high schools in the country (one of Andover or Exeter)

- PhD program at a university with top 5 PhD programs in the hard sciences (I did a social sciences program, but I knew people in the hard sciences and math PhD programs)

- My workplace has some of the world's best data scientists.

Despite all of that, I have met fewer than 5 people I would confidently say are PG. Mostly everyone else is quite smart, but not to the level where I could imagine them needing to skip more than 3 grades.