Best school for gifted kid? Looking for differentiation.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP who knows a bunch of people who skipped 3+ grades.

I skipped 3 grades myself. I was tested PG, both WISC and SB (~170 IQ). That background might mean that I've ended up meeting more people who have been radically accelerated, or perhaps more people who were once accelerated end up talking about it in my presence. (Otherwise you'd never really be able to tell in an adult.)

At the modest-sized suburban high schools I attended (one hometown public, one public STEM magnet, both smaller than a typical DC-area public school), each had another kid with a 3-grade skip. Locally there was also one family with incredibly gifted children; they finished college while still in their teens (and went to public schools where radical acceleration was allowed).

At my university (an Ivy), I met a recent grad (an employee of campus IT) who had a 3-grade skip. I also met a teenaged math grad student. I remember the university paper having mentioned other young entrants, but I don't recall how many.

In my post-college DC-area startup with a relatively small number of employees, there were two other employees who had a 3-grade skip, who attended Maryland public schools and later UMCP.

As I've grown older, accelerated folks stop being obvious -- i.e., you don't notice coworkers who can't legally drink, for instance. But in the (STEM) business world since, I've met a surprising number of people who, over a casual business dinner, have ended up mentioning their own radical acceleration when we're chatting about educating our kids. A few of them grew up in the APAC region, but the rest are US-raised.

My experience is that most radical acceleration is either three grades, or something totally off-the-charts, like going to college at age 11. There doesn't seem to be much in-between.

Kids who are accelerated by 3+ grades generally have individual IQ testing done as part of the justification for that acceleration. I don't think a grade skip that large is likely to be done for kids who have less than a 160 IQ. If you're at 145, you can probably do all right with sufficiently challenging curriculum in your grade or maybe one grade up (I have a sibling with a high 140s IQ, did great with a single grade of acceleration).

[Anonymous]

PP, with one more thought:

When you get out into the knowledge economy, most people specialize, and they end up working in their area of strength. The difference between someone with a 130 IQ and deep expertise in a field, and someone with a 170 IQ and similar expertise, isn't necessarily really obvious, and other workplace factors smooth out achievement.

For instance the person with the 130 IQ might be great at exchanging ideas with other people, and their work might be really enhanced by collaboration. The person with the 170 IQ might have a low tolerance for boredom that makes them go off-task and get less accomplished, or spreads their efforts onto a bunch of interesting projects that don't go as far as one really focused effort. Or whatever.

In some ways, IQ makes far more of a difference in children, where the asynchronous development creates a ton of headaches for child-rearing, than it does in adults, where no one really cares how smart you are.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP who was skeptical about OP's claims.

Sure, what you said makes sense.

Here's the thing about what OP said: Your IQ exists in approximately 1 in every 650,000 people. The probability OP knows more than 1 or 2 people like you is miniscule. Frankly, the probability that both you and OP (who claims she's PG) have an IQ of 170 is essentially 0.

I don't call BS on you; you have no reason to lie. I do call BS on OP, and have for the whole thread.

Anyway, my IQ is in the high 140s and you're right that I did well with acceleration in the context of a strong school. I found my NE prep school challenging. That said, I found college (at a top 20 research university) easy, and wasn't challenged again until my PhD program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Edlin School in Reston, VA near Vienna. It is lesser known, smaller and gifted school just like Nysmith. Its tuition is much less, about $17,000 less. When my DC was there at 6th grade, a girl at 4 th grade was taking English and Math with them. Their 6th grade studies 8-10th grade materials. Several kids came to Big 3s (Edlin school is k-8) that I know of all told me that school was very easy for them. As a matter of fact, they didn't learn anything new for a year or two in the Big 3s.

You can compare with Basis McLean, Nysmith and Edlin to see which one is best suitable to your PG child. The CTY route is too clumsy. The families whose kids are taking classes and summer camps or summer classes at CTY must joggle the schedules, online classes, no real interactions with classmates, or a school like environment. [/quote]


Disagree. Admin. problems. Read greatschools.org and yelp (especially the "not recommended" reviews) and other sites first.

[Anonymous]

Not the OP. PP reading your post makes me feel better about my decision to move my kids to Nysmith. I know they are highly intelligent kids per IQ tests, but their school works just didn't show. I am sure not all kids in Nysmith are gifted, but it really does not matter if the school is willing to work with the individual kids that need more. Did your DS just spent 4th and 5th grade in Nysmith before moving overseas?

PP from overseas. Sometimes gifted children "just" comply with the requirements as they do not feel that doing/showing more would matter. Teachers at our first private school in DC told us DS was doing great but was not exceptional. They could not see the boredom as he did not show "more". The first year, Nysmith offered a tentative placement one grade above level in math. All children get a test around 10 days after the school starts to adjust the placement in case of need. DS was actually placed two grades above his level in math (nothing outstanding at Nysmith). And after the first year at Nysmith, he was placed two grades above the level he completed in math. So DS was able to show and give more in the right environment (assessed and graded) while he delivered the bare minimum (still enough apparently to be ahead of the class but it was not graded) when he had no interest. What and how they learnt in English was nothing comparable with the previous school. Science courses were just a blast. It is as much about the material as the way the teacher delivers and interacts with the group and each individual. People think gifted children are always successful at school while they can easily fail or drop out because they have no interest whatsoever in what happens in their classroom. DS also loved the after school activities at Nysmith, all delivered by the same teachers and not outsiders. I wish you and your children the best of luck at Nysmith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great post. good luck abroad. Is this an int'l program or mainstream school in Asia or EU, sounds great but also in a traditional, structured school way.

Quick question - did you find a progressive K-12 better or worse for a HG or PG young kid or a traditional/more structured K-12? We may also have elements of 2E given family history on one side.

PP from overseas. We are in an international school (so progressive) but very constrained by the strong requirements of the Ministry of Education (thus also traditional!) that apply to both public and private schools. Our progressive K-12 in DC worked for DS in K, 1st and 2nd grade. I do not know whether a more traditional school would have been a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who was skeptical about OP's claims.

Sure, what you said makes sense.

Here's the thing about what OP said: Your IQ exists in approximately 1 in every 650,000 people. The probability OP knows more than 1 or 2 people like you is miniscule. Frankly, the probability that both you and OP (who claims she's PG) have an IQ of 170 is essentially 0.

I don't call BS on you; you have no reason to lie. I do call BS on OP, and have for the whole thread.

Anyway, my IQ is in the high 140s and you're right that I did well with acceleration in the context of a strong school. I found my NE prep school challenging. That said, I found college (at a top 20 research university) easy, and wasn't challenged again until my PhD program.

I am OP, and I think your intelligence must be rather limited. Your sole reason for doubting me is that *gasp* I refuse to share The Number. I call BS on your claim to a 140 IQ.

The DMV has a number of research, academic, and government institutions unique to the area. The density of PG adults and kids will be higher here than, say, in Arkansas. I did not meet a lot of PG people growing up. In fact, I was the only person I knew in that range until I went to college. I attended a HYP, and in my first year met quite a few.

Context and geography matters, as highly intelligent people are not randomly distributed throughout the country. They concentrate in places where there are resources for them, i.e. elite Ivies, or interesting jobs, i.e. Silicon Valley, NY, DC, Seattle, etc.

The fact that you couldn’t figure this out yourself speaks to your limitations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who knows a bunch of people who skipped 3+ grades.

I skipped 3 grades myself. I was tested PG, both WISC and SB (~170 IQ). That background might mean that I've ended up meeting more people who have been radically accelerated, or perhaps more people who were once accelerated end up talking about it in my presence. (Otherwise you'd never really be able to tell in an adult.)

[…]
My experience is that most radical acceleration is either three grades, or something totally off-the-charts, like going to college at age 11. There doesn't seem to be much in-between.

Kids who are accelerated by 3+ grades generally have individual IQ testing done as part of the justification for that acceleration. I don't think a grade skip that large is likely to be done for kids who have less than a 160 IQ. If you're at 145, you can probably do all right with sufficiently challenging curriculum in your grade or maybe one grade up (I have a sibling with a high 140s IQ, did great with a single grade of acceleration).

PP from overseas. Extremely interesting. We were just offered to accelerate DS by one additional year. We are still debating and may defer until next year as we would like DS to settle a bit on the social emotional side. The main challenge we are facing is really the asynchronous development and we try to adjust accordingly based on what we see in DS's development. As you rightly point out, it really does matter at this age as it hurts to feel so different (not to mention teenage years). Did you skip one grade at a time or two/ three at once?

[Anonymous]

PP here. You don’t have a very good sense of how probability works.

Even in a well educated area like DC, the chances of meeting that many people in the consensus PG range (160s or 170) IQ is quite low. I agree with the PP who said a small, rarified environment like a hard sciences or math PhD program is a different matter entirely. You probably also met a few at your HYP, but saying you met that many PG people in your everyday life in this area is ridiculous, unless you work at one of a very few jobs here that require exceedingly high level skills.

Listen, I have no reason to lie to you about myself. I was tested for a magnet program as a kid and scored 147. My sister was tested for the same program and scored 153.

You just seem to be grossly exaggerating the intellectual ability of the people you meet. That’s all I’m arguing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who knows a bunch of people who skipped 3+ grades.

I skipped 3 grades myself. I was tested PG, both WISC and SB (~170 IQ). That background might mean that I've ended up meeting more people who have been radically accelerated, or perhaps more people who were once accelerated end up talking about it in my presence. (Otherwise you'd never really be able to tell in an adult.)

At the modest-sized suburban high schools I attended (one hometown public, one public STEM magnet, both smaller than a typical DC-area public school), each had another kid with a 3-grade skip. Locally there was also one family with incredibly gifted children; they finished college while still in their teens (and went to public schools where radical acceleration was allowed).

At my university (an Ivy), I met a recent grad (an employee of campus IT) who had a 3-grade skip. I also met a teenaged math grad student. I remember the university paper having mentioned other young entrants, but I don't recall how many.

In my post-college DC-area startup with a relatively small number of employees, there were two other employees who had a 3-grade skip, who attended Maryland public schools and later UMCP.

As I've grown older, accelerated folks stop being obvious -- i.e., you don't notice coworkers who can't legally drink, for instance. But in the (STEM) business world since, I've met a surprising number of people who, over a casual business dinner, have ended up mentioning their own radical acceleration when we're chatting about educating our kids. A few of them grew up in the APAC region, but the rest are US-raised.

My experience is that most radical acceleration is either three grades, or something totally off-the-charts, like going to college at age 11. There doesn't seem to be much in-between.

Kids who are accelerated by 3+ grades generally have individual IQ testing done as part of the justification for that acceleration. I don't think a grade skip that large is likely to be done for kids who have less than a 160 IQ. If you're at 145, you can probably do all right with sufficiently challenging curriculum in your grade or maybe one grade up (I have a sibling with a high 140s IQ, did great with a single grade of acceleration).

PP, your experience is very much like mine. I had a 3-grade skip, then skipped another year a few years later. I have run into other PG people professionally, and they are on the surface no different from anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. You don’t have a very good sense of how probability works.

Even in a well educated area like DC, the chances of meeting that many people in the consensus PG range (160s or 170) IQ is quite low. I agree with the PP who said a small, rarified environment like a hard sciences or math PhD program is a different matter entirely. You probably also met a few at your HYP, but saying you met that many PG people in your everyday life in this area is ridiculous, unless you work at one of a very few jobs here that require exceedingly high level skills.

Listen, I have no reason to lie to you about myself. I was tested for a magnet program as a kid and scored 147. My sister was tested for the same program and scored 153.

You just seem to be grossly exaggerating the intellectual ability of the people you meet. That’s all I’m arguing.

I am OP, and at no point have I said I run into “many PG people in my everyday life.” I’ve met a few. More than in the place I grew up. Fewer than at my Ivy. You are conflating different posters who had had different experiences. The writers’ tones are clearly different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not the OP. PP reading your post makes me feel better about my decision to move my kids to Nysmith. I know they are highly intelligent kids per IQ tests, but their school works just didn't show. I am sure not all kids in Nysmith are gifted, but it really does not matter if the school is willing to work with the individual kids that need more. Did your DS just spent 4th and 5th grade in Nysmith before moving overseas?

PP from overseas. Sometimes gifted children "just" comply with the requirements as they do not feel that doing/showing more would matter. Teachers at our first private school in DC told us DS was doing great but was not exceptional. They could not see the boredom as he did not show "more". The first year, Nysmith offered a tentative placement one grade above level in math. All children get a test around 10 days after the school starts to adjust the placement in case of need. DS was actually placed two grades above his level in math (nothing outstanding at Nysmith). And after the first year at Nysmith, he was placed two grades above the level he completed in math. So DS was able to show and give more in the right environment (assessed and graded) while he delivered the bare minimum (still enough apparently to be ahead of the class but it was not graded) when he had no interest. What and how they learnt in English was nothing comparable with the previous school. Science courses were just a blast. It is as much about the material as the way the teacher delivers and interacts with the group and each individual. People think gifted children are always successful at school while they can easily fail or drop out because they have no interest whatsoever in what happens in their classroom. DS also loved the after school activities at Nysmith, all delivered by the same teachers and not outsiders. I wish you and your children the best of luck at Nysmith.

This is very true -- practically a quote from our DS.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes I think a change in schools can really help a child whose labeled “immature” for any reason so they can start fresh with a new peer group who doesn’t have a preconceived notion about their personality. I think it can be hard to escape the baggage of behavior from the younger grades even if a child has matured a little more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who knows a bunch of people who skipped 3+ grades.

I skipped 3 grades myself. I was tested PG, both WISC and SB (~170 IQ). That background might mean that I've ended up meeting more people who have been radically accelerated, or perhaps more people who were once accelerated end up talking about it in my presence. (Otherwise you'd never really be able to tell in an adult.)

[…]
My experience is that most radical acceleration is either three grades, or something totally off-the-charts, like going to college at age 11. There doesn't seem to be much in-between.

Kids who are accelerated by 3+ grades generally have individual IQ testing done as part of the justification for that acceleration. I don't think a grade skip that large is likely to be done for kids who have less than a 160 IQ. If you're at 145, you can probably do all right with sufficiently challenging curriculum in your grade or maybe one grade up (I have a sibling with a high 140s IQ, did great with a single grade of acceleration).

PP from overseas. Extremely interesting. We were just offered to accelerate DS by one additional year. We are still debating and may defer until next year as we would like DS to settle a bit on the social emotional side. The main challenge we are facing is really the asynchronous development and we try to adjust accordingly based on what we see in DS's development. As you rightly point out, it really does matter at this age as it hurts to feel so different (not to mention teenage years). Did you skip one grade at a time or two/ three at once?

PP, this is OP. I skipped three grades at once. I know it’s different for every child, but I am not a big proponent of skipping. I suspect when you skip also matters. I finished 4th and skipped into 8th. That’s during a critical developmental period, i.e. the onset of adolescence for most kids. Being out of sync with your peers emotionally during that period can be hellish.

I think one year at a time over a few years would probably have been better for me. I think it’s great that you are valuing your chuld’s emotional development. I think talking to him and getting his sense is important, too.

[Anonymous]

I’m not going to sit here and analyze the tone of various posts. You conveyed (or someone claiming to be you conveyed) the impression that you had met more than a few PG people in your everyday life in this area. That’s all I was responding to.