Anyone go from SAHM to retirement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a first time mom at 43 (!) with one and only DD. I'll be 62 by the time she goes to college. I've had a 20-year career, and am most recently C-level at a large company. I feel like I've achieved the highest point of my career, and I could be doing the same thing for 20 years before retiring. Or start my own company, which would have its own trajectory. Obviously I've wanted DD for a long time, and love spending time with her. When she gets older, I could go back to work PT, or freelance, or volunteer. Has anyone go from SAHM to retirement and any tips?

Haven’t read any other replies. But, are you me?? Except I did it! Couldn’t be happier.

I've been thinking about starting a similar thread. I"m 45, earned a lot of money already, saved most of it and due to two young kids, one with a labor-intensive condition, I'm seriously thinking about "retiring" or staying at home or living off the money I already earned/saved. My problem, fear of loosing my self-definition. I even know what I want to do in the volunteer space. Actually, my DH doesn't want me to which is bothersome because we can live off his income and since we've met, I've earned 1/3 more than him. For example, he earns 200K and our mortgage is less than most apartments.

I think your DH has to be on board for you to be a SAHM. Sounds like you are and were always the higher earner.

How old are your kids?
Could you do a lateral more flexible job?

I’m the 40yo pp. DH likes me staying home because he can focus on his career. He doesn’t have to stress out about picking up the kids on time or whether he will need to call out tomorrow because school might be closed because it is too cold.

Read this carefully. Many men want their wife to stay home simply so their own life is easier. Having a SAHM benefits the man more than the woman. He’s out there with his own identity and contributing to retirement accounts that are in his name only. His career options and salary continue to grow. You’re stuck at home and your identity is working for your spouse and children as a cook, nanny, maid, party planner, etc. He’s in the outside world and you’re trapped behind the scenes. Oh wait volunteer work....more unpaid labor that benefits men.

If you’re an ambitious woman who likes to stay busy you most likely won’t enjoy staying home.

We actually have a cook, babysitter and housekeeper. My husband cleans more than I do. I hate doing the dishes and dh often runs the dishwasher at night.

I was extremely ambitious. My three children keep me busy and I’m far from bored. I spent many years trying to juggle work life balance. I’m far happier now. I have time to take care of myself and focus on the children. Our family is better that I stay home.

Every family is different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a first time mom at 43 (!) with one and only DD. I'll be 62 by the time she goes to college. I've had a 20-year career, and am most recently C-level at a large company. I feel like I've achieved the highest point of my career, and I could be doing the same thing for 20 years before retiring. Or start my own company, which would have its own trajectory. Obviously I've wanted DD for a long time, and love spending time with her. When she gets older, I could go back to work PT, or freelance, or volunteer. Has anyone go from SAHM to retirement and any tips?

Haven’t read any other replies. But, are you me?? Except I did it! Couldn’t be happier.

I've been thinking about starting a similar thread. I"m 45, earned a lot of money already, saved most of it and due to two young kids, one with a labor-intensive condition, I'm seriously thinking about "retiring" or staying at home or living off the money I already earned/saved. My problem, fear of loosing my self-definition. I even know what I want to do in the volunteer space. Actually, my DH doesn't want me to which is bothersome because we can live off his income and since we've met, I've earned 1/3 more than him. For example, he earns 200K and our mortgage is less than most apartments.

I think your DH has to be on board for you to be a SAHM. Sounds like you are and were always the higher earner.

How old are your kids?
Could you do a lateral more flexible job?

I’m the 40yo pp. DH likes me staying home because he can focus on his career. He doesn’t have to stress out about picking up the kids on time or whether he will need to call out tomorrow because school might be closed because it is too cold.

Read this carefully. Many men want their wife to stay home simply so their own life is easier. Having a SAHM benefits the man more than the woman. He’s out there with his own identity and contributing to retirement accounts that are in his name only. His career options and salary continue to grow. You’re stuck at home and your identity is working for your spouse and children as a cook, nanny, maid, party planner, etc. He’s in the outside world and you’re trapped behind the scenes. Oh wait volunteer work....more unpaid labor that benefits men.

If you’re an ambitious woman who likes to stay busy you most likely won’t enjoy staying home.

We actually have a cook, babysitter and housekeeper. My husband cleans more than I do. I hate doing the dishes and dh often runs the dishwasher at night.

I was extremely ambitious. My three children keep me busy and I’m far from bored. I spent many years trying to juggle work life balance. I’m far happier now. I have time to take care of myself and focus on the children. Our family is better that I stay home.

Every family is different.

Wow this sounds like bragging and you're incredibly lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a 40YO SAHM of 3. I will be 57 when youngest leaves for college.

When I mention going back to work, DH tells me that I should consider myself retired. I left my finance career and will not be returning.

DH is my retirement package. He earns a seven figure income and we have the funds retire now.

We have a few neighbors who are young and retired. They have young children like us. Maybe they are the pp. they are rich, live in a mansion, have a jet, etc. they say they are retired and they are. The dad doesn’t say he is a stay at home dad. I know a dad who is 45ish and doesn’t work. He also says he is retired.

I never considered being a SAHM a job. Seems strange to say you retired from being a SAHM. I would never say that. I also don’t say that I am retired to other people.

Being a sahm is absolutely a job. What is wrong with you? Mothers will young children cannot walk away from the children. They have to take care of them and that's WORK.

NP. I guess it’s personal perspective. I have NEVER considered being a SAHM a “job” or “work”. Certainly I don’t list it as my occupation.

I think you are one of the few who feels that way.

Maybe because I think of parenting as a personal responsibility. My “job” has always been associated with my professional career. I would never put “sahm” on my resume. Or any form really.

I also don’t consider my DH watching the kids “babysitting”.

And I don’t consider that working parents (my DH included) have a “part-time job” of parenting.

Most forms have stay at home mom or homemaker as an occupation. Why is this so hard to understand? You tell people you're a SAHM because it's a job. I swear some women love to argue about the dumbest things.

Yes, I never use those terms. I either note my profession or “retired”.

I don’t tell anyone my “job” is SAHM because it’s not.

Do all of the DHs who WOH full-time believe that they have a part-time “job” as a parent?

Just because there is effort involved doesn’t make it a “job”. WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a first time mom at 43 (!) with one and only DD. I'll be 62 by the time she goes to college. I've had a 20-year career, and am most recently C-level at a large company. I feel like I've achieved the highest point of my career, and I could be doing the same thing for 20 years before retiring. Or start my own company, which would have its own trajectory. Obviously I've wanted DD for a long time, and love spending time with her. When she gets older, I could go back to work PT, or freelance, or volunteer. Has anyone go from SAHM to retirement and any tips?

Haven’t read any other replies. But, are you me?? Except I did it! Couldn’t be happier.

I've been thinking about starting a similar thread. I"m 45, earned a lot of money already, saved most of it and due to two young kids, one with a labor-intensive condition, I'm seriously thinking about "retiring" or staying at home or living off the money I already earned/saved. My problem, fear of loosing my self-definition. I even know what I want to do in the volunteer space. Actually, my DH doesn't want me to which is bothersome because we can live off his income and since we've met, I've earned 1/3 more than him. For example, he earns 200K and our mortgage is less than most apartments.

I think your DH has to be on board for you to be a SAHM. Sounds like you are and were always the higher earner.

How old are your kids?
Could you do a lateral more flexible job?

I’m the 40yo pp. DH likes me staying home because he can focus on his career. He doesn’t have to stress out about picking up the kids on time or whether he will need to call out tomorrow because school might be closed because it is too cold.

Read this carefully. Many men want their wife to stay home simply so their own life is easier. Having a SAHM benefits the man more than the woman. He’s out there with his own identity and contributing to retirement accounts that are in his name only. His career options and salary continue to grow. You’re stuck at home and your identity is working for your spouse and children as a cook, nanny, maid, party planner, etc. He’s in the outside world and you’re trapped behind the scenes. Oh wait volunteer work....more unpaid labor that benefits men.

If you’re an ambitious woman who likes to stay busy you most likely won’t enjoy staying home.

We actually have a cook, babysitter and housekeeper. My husband cleans more than I do. I hate doing the dishes and dh often runs the dishwasher at night.

I was extremely ambitious. My three children keep me busy and I’m far from bored. I spent many years trying to juggle work life balance. I’m far happier now. I have time to take care of myself and focus on the children. Our family is better that I stay home.

Every family is different.

Wow this sounds like bragging and you're incredibly lazy.

This thread is about going from SAHM to retirement. Pp says that ambitious women would be bored staying home.

I was SVP and director level before staying home full time with no plans to return to the workforce. I would say my experience is relevant to this thread.

I don’t have a FT housekeeper. She comes every other week. I am not lazy and I am not bored. And I have a ton of hobbies and projects I would love to do if I had more time.

[Anonymous]

I have never heard of a SAHM being considered an occupation. Only on DCUM.

Signed,
A SAHM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 57. DD is 17. 1 1/2 more years of school for her and then she is off. I did work 20 years b4 I had her and then became a SAHM.

Not sure what is next.

Are you happy about your decision? Do you feel like you missed out by not working, but now are too mature to go back (if you wanted to go back)?

NP in a similar situation and no, absolutely not. But I'd likely feel differently if we were in a bad financial situation, obviously. But no, I became an empty nester at 55 and had zero desire to go back to work in the traditional office setting / 9-5 sense; very happy with my decision.

DP here. I am also in a similar situation. Once I had my kids I did not want to juggle work and home. I am also a homebody who loved being with my kids and being a mom. We were also in a good financial situation so it was an easy enough decision. I will be an empty nester in 3 years and I want to do something (work, hobby, volunteer that I enjoy. I have truly enjoyed being a SAHM and feel fulfilled raising my kids, so anything I do after the kids leave should be at least somewhat as meaningful, enjoyable and fulfilling. My DH is of the opinion that I should live like I am on a vacation and do only things that please me. I am sure I can do that, but right now I worry about missing my kids too much and so going back to work and the responsibility may be a good diversion for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 57. DD is 17. 1 1/2 more years of school for her and then she is off. I did work 20 years b4 I had her and then became a SAHM.

Not sure what is next.

Are you happy about your decision? Do you feel like you missed out by not working, but now are too mature to go back (if you wanted to go back)?

NP in a similar situation and no, absolutely not. But I'd likely feel differently if we were in a bad financial situation, obviously. But no, I became an empty nester at 55 and had zero desire to go back to work in the traditional office setting / 9-5 sense; very happy with my decision.

DP here. I am also in a similar situation. Once I had my kids I did not want to juggle work and home. I am also a homebody who loved being with my kids and being a mom. We were also in a good financial situation so it was an easy enough decision. I will be an empty nester in 3 years and I want to do something (work, hobby, volunteer that I enjoy. I have truly enjoyed being a SAHM and feel fulfilled raising my kids, so anything I do after the kids leave should be at least somewhat as meaningful, enjoyable and fulfilling. My DH is of the opinion that I should live like I am on a vacation and do only things that please me. I am sure I can do that, but right now I worry about missing my kids too much and so going back to work and the responsibility may be a good diversion for me.

I am one of the PPs and am like you. Same feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a first time mom at 43 (!) with one and only DD. I'll be 62 by the time she goes to college. I've had a 20-year career, and am most recently C-level at a large company. I feel like I've achieved the highest point of my career, and I could be doing the same thing for 20 years before retiring. Or start my own company, which would have its own trajectory. Obviously I've wanted DD for a long time, and love spending time with her. When she gets older, I could go back to work PT, or freelance, or volunteer. Has anyone go from SAHM to retirement and any tips?

Haven’t read any other replies. But, are you me?? Except I did it! Couldn’t be happier.

I've been thinking about starting a similar thread. I"m 45, earned a lot of money already, saved most of it and due to two young kids, one with a labor-intensive condition, I'm seriously thinking about "retiring" or staying at home or living off the money I already earned/saved. My problem, fear of loosing my self-definition. I even know what I want to do in the volunteer space. Actually, my DH doesn't want me to which is bothersome because we can live off his income and since we've met, I've earned 1/3 more than him. For example, he earns 200K and our mortgage is less than most apartments.

I think your DH has to be on board for you to be a SAHM. Sounds like you are and were always the higher earner.

How old are your kids?
Could you do a lateral more flexible job?

I’m the 40yo pp. DH likes me staying home because he can focus on his career. He doesn’t have to stress out about picking up the kids on time or whether he will need to call out tomorrow because school might be closed because it is too cold.

Read this carefully. Many men want their wife to stay home simply so their own life is easier. Having a SAHM benefits the man more than the woman. He’s out there with his own identity and contributing to retirement accounts that are in his name only. His career options and salary continue to grow. You’re stuck at home and your identity is working for your spouse and children as a cook, nanny, maid, party planner, etc. He’s in the outside world and you’re trapped behind the scenes. Oh wait volunteer work....more unpaid labor that benefits men.

If you’re an ambitious woman who likes to stay busy you most likely won’t enjoy staying home.

All of this.

Only if you have a severely disabled child this choice might be made for you. I found it impossible to work with a severely autistic son. And my ‘new’ job of caring for the kids was actually a lot more work compared to my old, high level engineering job. The pay wasn’t good either.
C’est la vie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a first time mom at 43 (!) with one and only DD. I'll be 62 by the time she goes to college. I've had a 20-year career, and am most recently C-level at a large company. I feel like I've achieved the highest point of my career, and I could be doing the same thing for 20 years before retiring. Or start my own company, which would have its own trajectory. Obviously I've wanted DD for a long time, and love spending time with her. When she gets older, I could go back to work PT, or freelance, or volunteer. Has anyone go from SAHM to retirement and any tips?

Haven’t read any other replies. But, are you me?? Except I did it! Couldn’t be happier.

I've been thinking about starting a similar thread. I"m 45, earned a lot of money already, saved most of it and due to two young kids, one with a labor-intensive condition, I'm seriously thinking about "retiring" or staying at home or living off the money I already earned/saved. My problem, fear of loosing my self-definition. I even know what I want to do in the volunteer space. Actually, my DH doesn't want me to which is bothersome because we can live off his income and since we've met, I've earned 1/3 more than him. For example, he earns 200K and our mortgage is less than most apartments.

I think your DH has to be on board for you to be a SAHM. Sounds like you are and were always the higher earner.

How old are your kids?
Could you do a lateral more flexible job?

I’m the 40yo pp. DH likes me staying home because he can focus on his career. He doesn’t have to stress out about picking up the kids on time or whether he will need to call out tomorrow because school might be closed because it is too cold.

Read this carefully. Many men want their wife to stay home simply so their own life is easier. Having a SAHM benefits the man more than the woman. He’s out there with his own identity and contributing to retirement accounts that are in his name only. His career options and salary continue to grow. You’re stuck at home and your identity is working for your spouse and children as a cook, nanny, maid, party planner, etc. He’s in the outside world and you’re trapped behind the scenes. Oh wait volunteer work....more unpaid labor that benefits men.

If you’re an ambitious woman who likes to stay busy you most likely won’t enjoy staying home.

All of this.

Only if you have a severely disabled child this choice might be made for you. I found it impossible to work with a severely autistic son. And my ‘new’ job of caring for the kids was actually a lot more work compared to my old, high level engineering job. The pay wasn’t good either.
C’est la vie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a first time mom at 43 (!) with one and only DD. I'll be 62 by the time she goes to college. I've had a 20-year career, and am most recently C-level at a large company. I feel like I've achieved the highest point of my career, and I could be doing the same thing for 20 years before retiring. Or start my own company, which would have its own trajectory. Obviously I've wanted DD for a long time, and love spending time with her. When she gets older, I could go back to work PT, or freelance, or volunteer. Has anyone go from SAHM to retirement and any tips?

Haven’t read any other replies. But, are you me?? Except I did it! Couldn’t be happier.

I've been thinking about starting a similar thread. I"m 45, earned a lot of money already, saved most of it and due to two young kids, one with a labor-intensive condition, I'm seriously thinking about "retiring" or staying at home or living off the money I already earned/saved. My problem, fear of loosing my self-definition. I even know what I want to do in the volunteer space. Actually, my DH doesn't want me to which is bothersome because we can live off his income and since we've met, I've earned 1/3 more than him. For example, he earns 200K and our mortgage is less than most apartments.

I think your DH has to be on board for you to be a SAHM. Sounds like you are and were always the higher earner.



How old are your kids?
Could you do a lateral more flexible job?

I’m the 40yo pp. DH likes me staying home because he can focus on his career. He doesn’t have to stress out about picking up the kids on time or whether he will need to call out tomorrow because school might be closed because it is too cold.

Read this carefully. Many men want their wife to stay home simply so their own life is easier. Having a SAHM benefits the man more than the woman. He’s out there with his own identity and contributing to retirement accounts that are in his name only. His career options and salary continue to grow. You’re stuck at home and your identity is working for your spouse and children as a cook, nanny, maid, party planner, etc. He’s in the outside world and you’re trapped behind the scenes. Oh wait volunteer work....more unpaid labor that benefits men.

If you’re an ambitious woman who likes to stay busy you most likely won’t enjoy staying home.

All of this.

Only if you have a severely disabled child this choice might be made for you. I found it impossible to work with a severely autistic son. And my ‘new’ job of caring for the kids was actually a lot more work compared to my old, high level engineering job. The pay wasn’t good either.
C’est la vie.

This is also my situation. Had kids late and when it became clear that my DC had issues and there were so so many appointments it was not a hard choice to make because I didn't make a lot of money (DH does so taxes) and we had just moved and had a house to set up. I was also working on getting pregnant again. I can't say a lot of long range thought went into my decision. We had to sort the kid out so I quit thinking once we got him all figured out I would return to work. There wasn't a plan just an immediate problem. Now 7 years later he still has a ton of appointments and we have our second kid who is not in school full-time. When they are both in school full time I want to go back to something and I look casually and would go back now if I found the right thing but I'm in a niche field. The thing that scares me in the middle of the night is something happening to DH and losing our income and health insurance. We save and have insurance but would not be able to stay in our house if something happened to DH.DS is very very expensive. We would have so much more money in the bank if he didn't have SN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a first time mom at 43 (!) with one and only DD. I'll be 62 by the time she goes to college. I've had a 20-year career, and am most recently C-level at a large company. I feel like I've achieved the highest point of my career, and I could be doing the same thing for 20 years before retiring. Or start my own company, which would have its own trajectory. Obviously I've wanted DD for a long time, and love spending time with her. When she gets older, I could go back to work PT, or freelance, or volunteer. Has anyone go from SAHM to retirement and any tips?

Haven’t read any other replies. But, are you me?? Except I did it! Couldn’t be happier.

I've been thinking about starting a similar thread. I"m 45, earned a lot of money already, saved most of it and due to two young kids, one with a labor-intensive condition, I'm seriously thinking about "retiring" or staying at home or living off the money I already earned/saved. My problem, fear of loosing my self-definition. I even know what I want to do in the volunteer space. Actually, my DH doesn't want me to which is bothersome because we can live off his income and since we've met, I've earned 1/3 more than him. For example, he earns 200K and our mortgage is less than most apartments.

I think your DH has to be on board for you to be a SAHM. Sounds like you are and were always the higher earner.

How old are your kids?
Could you do a lateral more flexible job?

I’m the 40yo pp. DH likes me staying home because he can focus on his career. He doesn’t have to stress out about picking up the kids on time or whether he will need to call out tomorrow because school might be closed because it is too cold.

Read this carefully. Many men want their wife to stay home simply so their own life is easier. Having a SAHM benefits the man more than the woman. He’s out there with his own identity and contributing to retirement accounts that are in his name only. His career options and salary continue to grow. You’re stuck at home and your identity is working for your spouse and children as a cook, nanny, maid, party planner, etc. He’s in the outside world and you’re trapped behind the scenes. Oh wait volunteer work....more unpaid labor that benefits men.

If you’re an ambitious woman who likes to stay busy you most likely won’t enjoy staying home.

You must not have kids. I have an Ivy League masters and have worked in stem for 15 years, a tough but interesting field, and for me ‘behind the scenes’ is anywhere my kids are not! My coworkers are not the most important validaters in my life. they will not show up in my hospital room or at my funeral. Professional accomplishments are great, but they are no match for raising my kids or taking care of family members in need, and that’s true for both me and my husband.
Your presumption that this work is inferior and for the ‘non-ambitious’ is inherited from a legacy of devaluing work traditionally done by women. Why have you agreed to undervalue it? You really want to be promoting that agenda?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the thread and have to say this. We are all mom. We are all women. Society is against all of us. Can't we be kind to each other. Some of us have choices and some of us don't. We all have our burdens to bare but we also have a choice about the energy we give out. Yes, this is DCUM but I really hate women on women hate.

the sad part at the root of the sahm vs wohm arguing is that we still don't value the work that was historically mainly done by women (raising kids, household upkeep, caring for elderly, volunteering in schools or community) the same way that we would value those same hours of duty performed in traditional male working roles. there's an expectation that this work will be cheap, if not free because in the past women had no choice but to perform it and were generally undervalued for doing so. so women are trained to look down upon it just as many men have, historically.

whoever does this work today, be it moms, dads, sons, nieces, daycare worker, neighbor... should get the same respect and appreciation that the average working 'man' gets-work is work. But it appears that's a long way from being the case, still.

TRUTH!

+ 2

It's sad to see women tearing women down for performing roles that we ALL know are a LOT of work. Maybe men don't know this. But women do. And yet women are the biggest detractors of SAHMs or women who take care of the elderly, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mother went back and got an additional degree once we were in college and then never worked again or used it. Because of what other posters said. You’re starting at the bottom and there is zero flexibility or leave. (And that’s assuming anyone wants to hire an entry-level employee close to 60 year old. It’s wrong but employers are age-ist.)

My mother did this too. It filled her time I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the thread and have to say this. We are all mom. We are all women. Society is against all of us. Can't we be kind to each other. Some of us have choices and some of us don't. We all have our burdens to bare but we also have a choice about the energy we give out. Yes, this is DCUM but I really hate women on women hate.

the sad part at the root of the sahm vs wohm arguing is that we still don't value the work that was historically mainly done by women (raising kids, household upkeep, caring for elderly, volunteering in schools or community) the same way that we would value those same hours of duty performed in traditional male working roles. there's an expectation that this work will be cheap, if not free because in the past women had no choice but to perform it and were generally undervalued for doing so. so women are trained to look down upon it just as many men have, historically.

whoever does this work today, be it moms, dads, sons, nieces, daycare worker, neighbor... should get the same respect and appreciation that the average working 'man' gets-work is work. But it appears that's a long way from being the case, still.

TRUTH!

+ 2

It's sad to see women tearing women down for performing roles that we ALL know are a LOT of work. Maybe men don't know this. But women do. And yet women are the biggest detractors of SAHMs or women who take care of the elderly, etc.

I respect both working and SAHMs. I have been a full time working mom, part time working mom and now a SAHM. All have different challenges.

I just think it is odd to say being a SAHM is an occupation and one day I will retire from being a SAHM.

[Anonymous]

DCUM is too funny! Of course SAHM is work. On one hand you pay others $$$ to do these jobs — childcare, cooking, cleaning, laundry, organizing, counseling, driving to doc appointment (wait until you have to do all this for the parents) yet when a woman does it it’s “not a job”. It’s just fun time.