Reaction to "Study of Choice and Special Academic Programs: Report of Findings and Recommendations"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYT article today, "Why Talented Black and Hispanic Students Can Go Undiscovered"

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/10/upshot/why-talented-black-and-hispanic-students-can-go-undiscovered.html?_r=1

Nonverbal test as first step.

We already due this screening and many minority kids are identified however because of the limited slots many don't make it to the HGC. So we are back to the same solution almost everyone will agree with.... Make more slots!

But that will water down the HGC!!!!1!!@!!

Or, more sincerely, I already think it's a bad idea to take select kids out of their home school for just 4-5th grade. I don't support taking even more kids out for that.

It will not water it down, there are way more qualified applicants to HGC than there are slots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
MCPS won't do that. That will make the achievement gap look even worse. There need to be 'soft' or 'holistic' criteria to be maneuvered without getting any legal trouble.

There already are - teacher recommendations. Do you want to get rid of that and make it wholly based on the scores from one test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYT article today, "Why Talented Black and Hispanic Students Can Go Undiscovered"

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/10/upshot/why-talented-black-and-hispanic-students-can-go-undiscovered.html?_r=1

Nonverbal test as first step.

We already due this screening and many minority kids are identified however because of the limited slots many don't make it to the HGC. So we are back to the same solution almost everyone will agree with.... Make more slots!

But that will water down the HGC!!!!1!!@!!

Or, more sincerely, I already think it's a bad idea to take select kids out of their home school for just 4-5th grade. I don't support taking even more kids out for that.

It will not water it down, there are way more qualified applicants to HGC than there are slots.

It's very confusing. More students should have access to the HGCs, which would remain equally demanding -- as long as the students are not, well, you know, those people, because that would water down the HGCs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They want to have more diversity in the magnets. One of the things recommended was to change the admissions criteria to achieve this. This was discussed in the other thread.

starting from here:
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/60/547680.page

Changing the admissions criteria does not necessarily mean lowering the standards. Why do you assume that it does?

You have been doing this circular questioning all day long. Tell us how do you propose to increase URM representation in an equitable way without disregarding the test scores? Because by scores alone, there are not enough Latinos and Blacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They want to have more diversity in the magnets. One of the things recommended was to change the admissions criteria to achieve this. This was discussed in the other thread.

starting from here:
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/60/547680.page

Changing the admissions criteria does not necessarily mean lowering the standards. Why do you assume that it does?

You have been doing this circular questioning all day long. Tell us how do you propose to increase URM representation in an equitable way without disregarding the test scores? Because by scores alone, there are not enough Latinos and Blacks.

DCUM is starting with the following assumptions:

1. The current admissions process is admitting the best-qualified applicants.
2. Everybody who is qualified to go to the HGC is applying to the HGC.

I think that both of these assumptions are false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They want to have more diversity in the magnets. One of the things recommended was to change the admissions criteria to achieve this. This was discussed in the other thread.

starting from here:
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/60/547680.page

Changing the admissions criteria does not necessarily mean lowering the standards. Why do you assume that it does?

You have been doing this circular questioning all day long. Tell us how do you propose to increase URM representation in an equitable way without disregarding the test scores? Because by scores alone, there are not enough Latinos and Blacks.

DCUM is starting with the following assumptions:

1. The current admissions process is admitting the best-qualified applicants.
2. Everybody who is qualified to go to the HGC is applying to the HGC.

I think that both of these assumptions are false.

OK, then in your opinion, who is "qualified" to be in HGC? Everyone who wants to try it? Should it be like FFX AAP where they admit like 10 to 15%? Then it won't be "highly gifted", it would be "academically advanced". I prefer they keep it top 2 to 3% rather than like AAP. I have one in HGC, and one that probably won't make it, and that's fine.

The second point - some who are qualified don't *want* to apply. Others, maybe the parents don't bother reading the papers that come home; listening to the robocalls that talk about special programs -- they are all done in English and Spanish. So, they don't bother to read or listen to the messages, so MCPS wants to what -- go door to door?

[Anonymous]

I know that you're intending to ask a rhetorical question, but it's actually not a rhetorical question. Are there things that MCPS could do to increase applications from demographic groups that are currently underrepresented in the applications? Yes, there are. The Metis study specifically examined that question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know that you're intending to ask a rhetorical question, but it's actually not a rhetorical question. Are there things that MCPS could do to increase applications from demographic groups that are currently underrepresented in the applications? Yes, there are. The Metis study specifically examined that question.

Metis was given the political wink by MCPS and told MCPS to lower standards for URM. This would increase URM participation in magnets, but would that bridge the achievement gap? Would that increase achievement in Blacks and Hispanics? I don't think so. It will keep some people with political and racial agenda happy, but it will not benefit all students.

If MCPS thinks that the Magnets should reflect the racial composition of the county, then in fact every school should reflect the racial composition of the county. When my child has to go to a home school with 80% blacks and Hispanics, and 80% FARMS and ESOL kids - he is not getting the diversity of MoCo. He is getting the slums of MoCo. I want my kid to go to the "W" schools. I do not think my child should lack the opportunities just because I did not buy a house in a "rich" locality. I want equity. I want my kid bused to Bethesda schools.

I wonder did they poll Black and Hispanic students to see if they wanted to go to Magnet schools? I bet the answer would be a resounding "no" from a vast majority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Metis was given the political wink by MCPS and told MCPS to lower standards for URM. This would increase URM participation in magnets, but would that bridge the achievement gap? Would that increase achievement in Blacks and Hispanics? I don't think so. It will keep some people with political and racial agenda happy, but it will not benefit all students.

If MCPS thinks that the Magnets should reflect the racial composition of the county, then in fact every school should reflect the racial composition of the county. When my child has to go to a home school with 80% blacks and Hispanics, and 80% FARMS and ESOL kids - he is not getting the diversity of MoCo. He is getting the slums of MoCo. I want my kid to go to the "W" schools. I do not think my child should lack the opportunities just because I did not buy a house in a "rich" locality. I want equity. I want my kid bused to Bethesda schools.

I wonder did they poll Black and Hispanic students to see if they wanted to go to Magnet schools? I bet the answer would be a resounding "no" from a vast majority.

Where did Metis do this? They didn't do it in the public report. Did they do it secretly? What is the source of your information?

[Anonymous]

I think what MCPS needs to do, is take BABY STEPS, to better pinpoint what works without compromising the standards and rigorousness of the magnet programs.

I think MCPS should open more HGC centers in those schools that have a high URM population (Title 1). The selection criteria for these schools should be like the current HGC admission process, however, they should make all the 3rd graders of the HGC hosting schools take the test - without filling in the applications. The test should be mandatory for all the students.

There will be some students from host school who will score high enough to get in on their own merit, but then the host school should also have some seats available for their top students based on teacher recommendation. These should be additional seats and not seats that the take away from outside students who went through the application process. THis should be a race blind process.

Then - there should also be another class room made entirely of the Host school GT students, who should be taught the same curriculum as the HGC students. Again this should be race blind. We should then see how these well these students do. What level of acceleration do they need to be successful. Maybe these students don't need the rigor of HGC, but they need more than what is being offered in the regular classroom. We would have then taken away the barriers for URMs like - the lack of knowledge about the program, the need to fill an application, the transportation issues, the difficulty of identifying the gifted URM students etc. Lets start with baby steps first.

NO one wants to keep the URMs down, they should be given resources, but they still have to use these resources to compete and to succeed on their own merit. Just like everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think what MCPS needs to do, is take BABY STEPS, to better pinpoint what works without compromising the standards and rigorousness of the magnet programs.

I think MCPS should open more HGC centers in those schools that have a high URM population (Title 1). The selection criteria for these HGCs should be exactly like the current HGC admission process, however, they should make all the 3rd graders of the HGC hosting schools take the test - without filling in the applications. The test should be mandatory for all the students.

There will be some students from host school who will score high enough to get in on their own merit, but then the host school should also have some seats available for their top students based on teacher recommendation. These should be additional seats and not seats that the take away from outside students who went through the application process. THis should be a race blind process.

Then - there should also be another class room made entirely of the Host school GT students, who should be taught the same curriculum as the HGC students. Again this should be race blind. We should then see how these well these students do. What level of acceleration do they need to be successful. Maybe these students don't need the rigor of HGC, but they need more than what is being offered in the regular classroom. We would have then taken away the barriers for URMs like - the lack of knowledge about the program, the need to fill an application, the transportation issues, the difficulty of identifying the gifted URM students etc. Lets start with baby steps first.

NO one wants to keep the URMs down, they should be given resources, but they still have to use these resources to compete and to succeed on their own merit. Just like everyone else.

*fixed above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Metis was given the political wink by MCPS and told MCPS to lower standards for URM. This would increase URM participation in magnets, but would that bridge the achievement gap? Would that increase achievement in Blacks and Hispanics? I don't think so. It will keep some people with political and racial agenda happy, but it will not benefit all students.

If MCPS thinks that the Magnets should reflect the racial composition of the county, then in fact every school should reflect the racial composition of the county. When my child has to go to a home school with 80% blacks and Hispanics, and 80% FARMS and ESOL kids - he is not getting the diversity of MoCo. He is getting the slums of MoCo. I want my kid to go to the "W" schools. I do not think my child should lack the opportunities just because I did not buy a house in a "rich" locality. I want equity. I want my kid bused to Bethesda schools.

I wonder did they poll Black and Hispanic students to see if they wanted to go to Magnet schools? I bet the answer would be a resounding "no" from a vast majority.

Where did Metis do this? They didn't do it in the public report. Did they do it secretly? What is the source of your information?

You are either extremely dense or deliberately trying to annoy people. It has been explained to you in multiple places. Go back and reread those replies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what MCPS needs to do, is take BABY STEPS, to better pinpoint what works without compromising the standards and rigorousness of the magnet programs.

I think MCPS should open more HGC centers in those schools that have a high URM population (Title 1). The selection criteria for these HGCs should be exactly like the current HGC admission process, however, they should make all the 3rd graders of the HGC hosting schools take the test - without filling in the applications. The test should be mandatory for all the students.

There will be some students from host school who will score high enough to get in on their own merit, but then the host school should also have some seats available for their top students based on teacher recommendation. These should be additional seats and not seats that the take away from outside students who went through the application process. THis should be a race blind process.

Then - there should also be another class room made entirely of the Host school GT students, who should be taught the same curriculum as the HGC students. Again this should be race blind. We should then see how these well these students do. What level of acceleration do they need to be successful. Maybe these students don't need the rigor of HGC, but they need more than what is being offered in the regular classroom. We would have then taken away the barriers for URMs like - the lack of knowledge about the program, the need to fill an application, the transportation issues, the difficulty of identifying the gifted URM students etc. Lets start with baby steps first.

NO one wants to keep the URMs down, they should be given resources, but they still have to use these resources to compete and to succeed on their own merit. Just like everyone else.

*fixed above.

Except this may be perceived as tracking, something else schools are against. The only politically correct way of closing the gap is dumbing everybody down. That is why the schools are the way it is today. The only thing they cannot do anything about is racial segregation, hence the hand wringing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what MCPS needs to do, is take BABY STEPS, to better pinpoint what works without compromising the standards and rigorousness of the magnet programs.

I think MCPS should open more HGC centers in those schools that have a high URM population (Title 1). The selection criteria for these HGCs should be exactly like the current HGC admission process, however, they should make all the 3rd graders of the HGC hosting schools take the test - without filling in the applications. The test should be mandatory for all the students.

There will be some students from host school who will score high enough to get in on their own merit, but then the host school should also have some seats available for their top students based on teacher recommendation. These should be additional seats and not seats that the take away from outside students who went through the application process. THis should be a race blind process.

Then - there should also be another class room made entirely of the Host school GT students, who should be taught the same curriculum as the HGC students. Again this should be race blind. We should then see how these well these students do. What level of acceleration do they need to be successful. Maybe these students don't need the rigor of HGC, but they need more than what is being offered in the regular classroom. We would have then taken away the barriers for URMs like - the lack of knowledge about the program, the need to fill an application, the transportation issues, the difficulty of identifying the gifted URM students etc. Lets start with baby steps first.

NO one wants to keep the URMs down, they should be given resources, but they still have to use these resources to compete and to succeed on their own merit. Just like everyone else.

*fixed above.

Except this may be perceived as tracking, something else schools are against. The only politically correct way of closing the gap is dumbing everybody down. That is why the schools are the way it is today. The only thing they cannot do anything about is racial segregation, hence the hand wringing.

I am sorry, I don't understand what "Tracking" in MCPS means and why schools are against it? Can you explain?

My other suggestion is that you should have a GT classroom in each ES (even if they are not hosting the HGC) and the HGC curriculum and extra enrichment and course material should be provided to them. This is ES, there will not be an impact on GPA if these kids are not successful.

Infact, I am thinking that if MCPS just puts their entire HGC academic content, hw, projects etc., online, for everyone to see (and follow at home if they choose), there will be no problems. As good as the magnet programs are, they are not nothing special than what is the regular curriculum in most academically advanced countries.

[Anonymous]

MCPS needs to close achievement gap, makes each school has the semilar racial diversity, makes displine case evenly acrose race groups, etc.
What a wonderful world.
I turn on TV, a baby was shot, a metro rider was robbed or beatten, a white polce was shot, another white police was shot. Who did it!?