Married man going to lunch with single female inappropriate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quarterly lunches are NBD, OP! In fact, they may indicate that you're not really even close friends because friends see each other on a regular basis. If you were seeing this person 3-4 times weekly, that might have been a concern.

Do you ever invite others on these lunches?

Here's a test: invite one or two other people to join you. Are you still enjoying lunch? Can you go back and forth between a lunch "just the two of you" and lunch in a slightly larger group?

If tension develops, maybe something's under the surface?

Another test: are you feeling some tension?

If you're feeling mixed signals, why?

I used to get coffee every day with a colleague. We were both in relationships (with people we ended up marrying). EVERY DAY. There was nothing inappropriate. We didn't say negative things about our partners or anything. We would walk, get coffee, discuss our cases, chat about whatever. Eventually we started hanging out outside of work, with our partners. The four of us are very good friends. DH has gone on trips with this guy and his friends.

If you find yourself confiding to someone about your marriage, saying things you wouldn't say to your wife, that would be a problem. But keeping up with a professional colleague is not in itself anything to be concerned with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. My wife does not know. There are/have been other lady friends from work over the years that I have disclosed to her and in fact she has become friends with them. Nothing to hide. The issue here is if I tell my wife about this one she may get some suspicion simply because this woman is just really very gorgeous and same age as I. My wife knows this is the kind of woman I'm attracted to - intelligent, accomplished, beautiful professional woman.

You didn't answer my other question about how the lunches are paid.

[Anonymous]

Yes, inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a happily married man. Over the last year or so I have been going to lunch with a female colleague, 3 to 4 times a year. We are about the same age, in our mid 40s. She is well aware that I'm happily married but does not seem to be bothered by it. Truth is that I do find her attractive but no way I would do anything inappropriate. I enjoy her company and we talk about work, life, etc. I have never cheated on my wife of over 20 years, either emotionally or physically and I don't ever plan to. Do you think it is inappropriate for me to continue having the occasional lunch with her? Also, do you think she may be interested in me romantically even though she is aware about my situation? I would appreciate a lady's perspective on this. If she sees me as a good friend, then it may not be too risky to continue. If not, then probably best to stop. I have not discussed with my wife yet.

No big deal. Many married and/or single men and women in the office grab lunch, talk shop, catch up on family/life, whatever.
Only you can tell us if you two spoke about inappropriate things or started an emotional affair.

[Anonymous]

OP, do you invite her to lunch? Or does she invite you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, inappropriate.

This is so strange. What is inappropriate about it? Once you're married you cannot have a meal with someone of the opposite sex? You cannot control your urges? I don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some responses seem to indicate that if a man is even slightly attracted to a female colleague then he shouldn't meet up for lunch. It's tough to beat back biology but it seems to me that if we want to get to a place where women and men are treated equally in the workplace then we shouldn't be criticizing two colleagues going to lunch because of a natural inclination toward attractive people of the opposite sex. On occasion I go to lunch with 3 female colleagues who are all attractive, and also brilliant. So am I supposed to deprive myself of stimulating professional conversation because my lower brain occasionally notices that they are pretty?

Right... Everyone believes you - so you work at a strip club then?

No, I am a scientist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some responses seem to indicate that if a man is even slightly attracted to a female colleague then he shouldn't meet up for lunch. It's tough to beat back biology but it seems to me that if we want to get to a place where women and men are treated equally in the workplace then we shouldn't be criticizing two colleagues going to lunch because of a natural inclination toward attractive people of the opposite sex. On occasion I go to lunch with 3 female colleagues who are all attractive, and also brilliant. So am I supposed to deprive myself of stimulating professional conversation because my lower brain occasionally notices that they are pretty?

Right... Everyone believes you - so you work at a strip club then?

Whoa whoa whoa. This has NOTHING to do with "equality in the workplace". How is your (clearly lower) brain equating the two?

If management AT THE WORKPLACE or the WORKPLACE was criticizing two colleagues for interacting because someone might think someone is attractive, that would be directly affecting equality in the workplace, which you have strong feelings about (hahaha).

This has EVERYthing to do with personal accountability.

Dude posts he has issues with the womans attractiveness. He does not say it quite like that, but really, what else was the point of his post? So we could reassure him its ok to notice someone is attractive? He seems instead to be seeking permission to do something that he swears isnt going to lead to doing something else, but then why would be even post? His Red Herring was wondering if she might be drawn to him. Dude is confused. Dude has issues. Dude is actually being avoidant of the issues while presenting as if he is seeking knowledge and input. Dude is silly. Don't be like Dude.

Ok so the first post was one of the most thoughtful and insightful posts on this thread. I'm impressed with pp. The retort is lacking all such insight. Pp, you seem to think it's just "rules" that hold women (and probably POC) back. It's not. We've actually done a pretty good job of fixing the rules. It's societal norms that take a while to adjust. First pp hit the nail on the head.

No. THe poster of the this original post included this statement: it seems to me that if we want to get to a place where women and men are treated equally in the workplace then we shouldn't be criticizing two colleagues going to lunch because of a natural inclination toward attractive people of the opposite sex.

We are not talking about the workplace. Silly OP dude is NOT ASKING about the workplace. He is not asking about equality. He is asking simply if a married man and single woman should have lunch even if its purely professional and threw in the thing about her attractiveness.

He is the one hinting at mixing apples and oranges all over the place, but this poster made that more obvious.

Societal norms are the aggregate of people's actions over time and the point of intersection here is one mans confused thoughts on the matter, expressed imperfectly because its hard to express perfectly. He deserves the ribbing he signed himself up for. On the other hand the people who pointed out the personal side of this like "Does your wife know about these lunches?" are getting more to the meat of the matter.

OP's handwringing is silly. Very human. Very silly. He knows it, on some level. I just dont believe he would have ever posted if he didnt think she was hot, even if he thought she was attracted to HIM.

Ah well.

You fail to see that I was not responding to the OP but to all of the critical PP's hence my perspective vis-a-vis equality. Pleas read the black parts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some responses seem to indicate that if a man is even slightly attracted to a female colleague then he shouldn't meet up for lunch. It's tough to beat back biology but it seems to me that if we want to get to a place where women and men are treated equally in the workplace then we shouldn't be criticizing two colleagues going to lunch because of a natural inclination toward attractive people of the opposite sex. On occasion I go to lunch with 3 female colleagues who are all attractive, and also brilliant. So am I supposed to deprive myself of stimulating professional conversation because my lower brain occasionally notices that they are pretty?

Right... Everyone believes you - so you work at a strip club then?

Whoa whoa whoa. This has NOTHING to do with "equality in the workplace". How is your (clearly lower) brain equating the two?

If management AT THE WORKPLACE or the WORKPLACE was criticizing two colleagues for interacting because someone might think someone is attractive, that would be directly affecting equality in the workplace, which you have strong feelings about (hahaha).

This has EVERYthing to do with personal accountability.

Dude posts he has issues with the womans attractiveness. He does not say it quite like that, but really, what else was the point of his post? So we could reassure him its ok to notice someone is attractive? He seems instead to be seeking permission to do something that he swears isnt going to lead to doing something else, but then why would be even post? His Red Herring was wondering if she might be drawn to him. Dude is confused. Dude has issues. Dude is actually being avoidant of the issues while presenting as if he is seeking knowledge and input. Dude is silly. Don't be like Dude.

Ok so the first post was one of the most thoughtful and insightful posts on this thread. I'm impressed with pp. The retort is lacking all such insight. Pp, you seem to think it's just "rules" that hold women (and probably POC) back. It's not. We've actually done a pretty good job of fixing the rules. It's societal norms that take a while to adjust. First pp hit the nail on the head.

No. THe poster of the this original post included this statement: it seems to me that if we want to get to a place where women and men are treated equally in the workplace then we shouldn't be criticizing two colleagues going to lunch because of a natural inclination toward attractive people of the opposite sex.

We are not talking about the workplace. Silly OP dude is NOT ASKING about the workplace. He is not asking about equality. He is asking simply if a married man and single woman should have lunch even if its purely professional and threw in the thing about her attractiveness.

He is the one hinting at mixing apples and oranges all over the place, but this poster made that more obvious.

Societal norms are the aggregate of people's actions over time and the point of intersection here is one mans confused thoughts on the matter, expressed imperfectly because its hard to express perfectly. He deserves the ribbing he signed himself up for. On the other hand the people who pointed out the personal side of this like "Does your wife know about these lunches?" are getting more to the meat of the matter.

OP's handwringing is silly. Very human. Very silly. He knows it, on some level. I just dont believe he would have ever posted if he didnt think she was hot, even if he thought she was attracted to HIM.

Ah well.

Actually, first pp posits a general goal, which I for one share with him. Perhaps, you pp, don't. Like I said, you seem to think everything's all good for the ladeez, just so long as management doesn't explicitly stand in the way of their career goals. Just like how we got rid of segregation a long time ago, why he hell do black people still have problems? Op may not have asked specifically about his employer but first pp is a big thinker. Next pp not so much.

First PP here, Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a happily married man. Over the last year or so I have been going to lunch with a female colleague, 3 to 4 times a year. We are about the same age, in our mid 40s. She is well aware that I'm happily married but does not seem to be bothered by it. Truth is that I do find her attractive but no way I would do anything inappropriate. I enjoy her company and we talk about work, life, etc. I have never cheated on my wife of over 20 years, either emotionally or physically and I don't ever plan to. Do you think it is inappropriate for me to continue having the occasional lunch with her? Also, do you think she may be interested in me romantically even though she is aware about my situation? I would appreciate a lady's perspective on this. If she sees me as a good friend, then it may not be too risky to continue. If not, then probably best to stop. I have not discussed with my wife yet.

Yep it's inappropriate and you know it.
Do you share with your wife that you have lunches with this woman? Does your wife know her even?
How would your wife feel when she learns of the lunch dates? That's what will tell you what you've really been doing here.
If your kids saw you out to lunch with this woman what would you tell them?

I totally agree, if it were other co-workers as in group that would be ok. Notice he never asked the question to his wife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to admit when I was single in my late 20's I went to lunch with just about the same frequency with an older co-worker and yes, it was a lot about seeing if he would go and kind of flirty and an ego boost for me that he would schedule these lunches with me.
A few months would go by without contact and I would want a little bit of attention and we would go out to lunch. Rinse and repeat for a few years.
I would dig my heels in and act offended and horrified if anyone suggested it was anything but a friendly lunch, but 15 years later I can admit what my intention was. If he would have made a move, I probably would have gone for it.
And I assume he enjoyed the attention and flirtation too.

I have been the man in that situation. So while I am in the camp that agrees there is nothing wrong with lunch or drinks between men and women, there is often, in my experience, a sexual tension if both are attractive and flirty. Doesn't mean someone is going to act on it. Flirting itself is harmless.

You don't flirt if you're married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quarterly lunches are NBD, OP! In fact, they may indicate that you're not really even close friends because friends see each other on a regular basis. If you were seeing this person 3-4 times weekly, that might have been a concern.

Do you ever invite others on these lunches?

Here's a test: invite one or two other people to join you. Are you still enjoying lunch? Can you go back and forth between a lunch "just the two of you" and lunch in a slightly larger group?

If tension develops, maybe something's under the surface?

Another test: are you feeling some tension?

If you're feeling mixed signals, why?

My husband was doing this - though his lunch pal was married. She strung him along with all sorts of 'in the moment' attention when she had free time.
He thought that they were good friends. She got sick for two years and when the stuff hit the fan and she needed support or friendship she never even contacted him.
No one from the family contacted him - even after she died. He was not significant to her at all apparently but he thought he was.
Men are suckers for any kind of attention. You are way over thinking this OP - you're just some random dude that she knows a little bit sometimes and that's it. Invest your time in people that care and/or work colleagues instead. Do you have lunch with DW? What about some guy friends that you can actually see after work

Yep, meanwhile he was too happy to screw over his wife he had at home for the so called friend. I am too familiar with that one. Unless she was also friends with the "couple" it's totally inappropriate.

No secret friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. My wife does not know. There are/have been other lady friends from work over the years that I have disclosed to her and in fact she has become friends with them. Nothing to hide. The issue here is if I tell my wife about this one she may get some suspicion simply because this woman is just really very gorgeous and same age as I. My wife knows this is the kind of woman I'm attracted to - intelligent, accomplished, beautiful professional woman.

And NOW I will say it is inappropriate, having been in the "no big deal" camp before.

Listen, any relationship that is characterized by secrecy is not a good one for you to be in. There is a reason you haven't told your wife, and it isn't because you are concerned about her insecurity. It is because you are clearly attracted to this woman and hoping something more than friendship results. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

My DH has women friends and colleagues with whom he gets coffee or lunch. Doesn't bother me at all. He doesn't need my permission or have to run things past me (as so many alarmist posters have claimed will happen on this thread). People understand how business works. But having one companion that you deliberately hide from your wife raises a lot of questions about your intentions.

[Anonymous]

Having lunch with a single person of the opposite sex when you're married is fine.

BUT, having interactions with a person you're attracted to and purposefully hiding it from your spouse, or not mentioning it to your spouse when you would mention your interactions with a different person, is not fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, inappropriate.

This is so strange. What is inappropriate about it? Once you're married you cannot have a meal with someone of the opposite sex? You cannot control your urges? I don't get it.

It's the foundations of sharia law. Seems we are into that sort of thing here in the US.