American College systems is such a waste of time and resources!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[quote ]

What kind of university program requires P.E. classes? Really, I truly want to know. I was not required to take ANY P.E. classes in college, and the only person I know who WAS taking P.E. type courses in college was training to be a P.E. teacher. Tell us, OP, where did your children go to college and what programs did they complete?

I went to a s hooligans which required 2 semesters of PE plus swimming...you couldn't graduate without passing your swim test unless you are physically compromised

me too. did you go to Gettysburg college?

Cornell still requires PE and swimming test......which is just absurd.

Swarthmore does as well.

However I believe in physical fitness. I think it should be encouraged more, however I don't necessarily believe you should become heavily indebted to be perceived as well rounded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10-20% is what it used to be in Europe had college degrees. Then they have greater value. But here in the US its a huge "buisness" so around 60% have them and they are often less value.

34% of americans have a BA. Why would a degree in europe have more value? As previous posters have pointed out the American higher ed is the envy of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-20% is what it used to be in Europe had college degrees. Then they have greater value. But here in the US its a huge "buisness" so around 60% have them and they are often less value.

34% of americans have a BA. Why would a degree in europe have more value? As previous posters have pointed out the American higher ed is the envy of the world.

that includes a lot of old people when fewer people had college. For young people it's more like 50%

And yes Harvard Princeton are the envy of the world. slippery rock university less so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-20% is what it used to be in Europe had college degrees. Then they have greater value. But here in the US its a huge "buisness" so around 60% have them and they are often less value.

34% of americans have a BA. Why would a degree in europe have more value? As previous posters have pointed out the American higher ed is the envy of the world.

that includes a lot of old people when fewer people had college. For young people it's more like 50%

And yes Harvard Princeton are the envy of the world. slippery rock university less so.

Sorry, but you're wrong. For ages 25-34, just 36% of Americans have a bachelor's degree.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2016/demo/p20-578.pdf

[Anonymous]

I think there is a third path that few US colleges offer.

The OP is correct that students that attend Harvard or Princeton ARE wasting their time taking more than the 12 classes needed to get their degree.

Students that get into HYPS have already got broad educational bases (that is why the got into HYPS) and could specialize immediately, but this path is not available.

The OP is familiar with similar students/universities in Pakistan.

What I think the OP is missing is that for MOST US college students, part of their education is REMEDIAL.

Students that go to say Carnegie Mellon for engineering, need to NOT ONLY do the 12 required engineering courses but to also do the 8 distribution courses to bring them up to the level of an incoming HYPS student. Students that go to say Haverford, need to fill in the science and math to bring them up to the entry HYPS level that meets the proficiency required to call yourself educated.

You can argue that Carnegie and Haverford students have already met this standard but if you fill in New Jersey Institute of Technology and Slippery Rock University, you can see what I mean.

This leveling process is completely missed in most schools around the world that are trying to skip steps to get more bang for their money.

How big of a part does this remedial aspect play in the envy of US colleges around the world?

"And yes Harvard Princeton are the envy of the world. slippery rock university less so."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-20% is what it used to be in Europe had college degrees. Then they have greater value. But here in the US its a huge "buisness" so around 60% have them and they are often less value.

34% of americans have a BA. Why would a degree in europe have more value? As previous posters have pointed out the American higher ed is the envy of the world.

that includes a lot of old people when fewer people had college. For young people it's more like 50%

And yes Harvard Princeton are the envy of the world. slippery rock university less so.

Sorry, but you're wrong. For ages 25-34, just 36% of Americans have a bachelor's degree.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2016/demo/p20-578.pdf

If you take people who are 18-21 today and move them into that age group, bet the number will be >36%

[Anonymous]

College is too expensive and inefficient . It has gotten away with gouging and shady government loan scams. It is in the crosshairs of technology which will ravage the exceedingly sloppy culture. There are challenges to the rumpled and arrogant education entitlement culture coming from every angle in short order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The longer I observe the American college system, the more I am confused by it. In America, an average college major requires you to take 10-12 classes. You get 4 years to complete them. It takes 2 years tops to complete those courses and the other two years are usually squandered away by students because college here is a 4 year vacation paid for by mommy and daddy. Most schools do not really provide much academic rigor and are just easy diploma factories. Also, whats up with the "college experience?" What does that even mean? You go to school to specialize in a field so you can get your degree and join the workforce.

Don't even get me started on the medical education system here. A student takes 4 classes in undergrad to qualify as "premed" and then spends another 4 years getting a medical degree. Most other countries have medical colleges where students get MDs after graduating college!

And that is why you are a poorly educated peasant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a third path that few US colleges offer.

The OP is correct that students that attend Harvard or Princeton ARE wasting their time taking more than the 12 classes needed to get their degree.

Students that get into HYPS have already got broad educational bases (that is why the got into HYPS) and could specialize immediately, but this path is not available.

The OP is familiar with similar students/universities in Pakistan.

What I think the OP is missing is that for MOST US college students, part of their education is REMEDIAL.

Students that go to say Carnegie Mellon for engineering, need to NOT ONLY do the 12 required engineering courses but to also do the 8 distribution courses to bring them up to the level of an incoming HYPS student. Students that go to say Haverford, need to fill in the science and math to bring them up to the entry HYPS level that meets the proficiency required to call yourself educated.

You can argue that Carnegie and Haverford students have already met this standard but if you fill in New Jersey Institute of Technology and Slippery Rock University, you can see what I mean.

This leveling process is completely missed in most schools around the world that are trying to skip steps to get more bang for their money.

How big of a part does this remedial aspect play in the envy of US colleges around the world?

"And yes Harvard Princeton are the envy of the world. slippery rock university less so."

That's where the problem with the entrance exams (sat) comes in. students should be admitted based on their knowledge not sAT. I looked recently at entrance exams to Harvard from a hundred years ago. they were meaningful and difficult. SATs need to be replaced with something like
That. when that happens no one who needs remedial course will be admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-20% is what it used to be in Europe had college degrees. Then they have greater value. But here in the US its a huge "buisness" so around 60% have them and they are often less value.

34% of americans have a BA. Why would a degree in europe have more value? As previous posters have pointed out the American higher ed is the envy of the world.

that includes a lot of old people when fewer people had college. For young people it's more like 50%

And yes Harvard Princeton are the envy of the world. slippery rock university less so.

Sorry, but you're wrong. For ages 25-34, just 36% of Americans have a bachelor's degree.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2016/demo/p20-578.pdf

If you take people who are 18-21 today and move them into that age group, bet the number will be >36%

Do a large number of 18-21 year olds have bachelor's degrees?

Most in that age group who will earn a degree are still in college at those ages and thus wouldn't be included in those numbers.

[Anonymous]

Sahib, if you wish to understand the American system of life break education a recommend a book by one of your own: Fareed Zakaria's "In Defense of a Liberal Education."

[Anonymous]

This was definitely a juicy thread to read off the late night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If OP wants to hold up Pakistan as the educational model for the U.S., I'm not going to stop him. However, I will also conclude that he is very ignorant and hasn't attended a decent university himself.

This is OP.

I am not foolish enough to want to hold up Pakistani Education system as the model for the U.S. We are a poor nation with a lot of issues.

As an American, I have been through the American education system as have my children and as someone who is foreign born, I am able to objectively look at the way the American higher education system is a waste most of the time.

In America college is not an institution of higher education but an "experience" where 18 year olds go into so they can play and party and socialize on their parents' dime for 4 years. Most of the curriculum for the first two years is overpriced if not downright unecessary. Students spend the first 2 years finishing up various "general ed" requirements. In a sesmester, a student takes 2 or 3 major courses and the rest of it is overpriced fluff. Classes end at around 11 am to 5pm per day. For the rest of the day the student goes and sleeps in his overpriced dormitory and then goes and partakes in unnecessary social rituals such as greek life. There are parties full of underage drinking almost every night. Some children get hurt.

So students live in this strange bubble for 4 years and then graduate with 100k in debt or more. Why can't they just take classes and live amonsgt normal people instead of being on a "campus" for 4 years?

The whole system is designed in a strange way.

The system you describe wasn't "designed" at all. Sure, plenty of wealthy families along with people who pretend to be wealthy are convinced they need go to overpriced schools and earn useless liberal arts degrees which do not relate to any career that allows a person to earn a living. Spoiled kids party every night, don't study, and earn poor grades. Then they complain that they can't find a job to pay off their loans. This is the result of very poor planning and counseling. It is not a guaranteed outcome.

Nobody said you had to go to a private university that costs $50,000 per year in tuition. In-state universities are very good and thousands of students come out ready for a career or post-graduate education (such as medical school which is clearly your goal for your children). You may even find you live within driving distance so your children don't have to live in the dormitories (which are expensive and hardly luxurious). Half of the students attending the University of Maryland Medical School received their undergraduate degrees from the University of Maryland.

OP here.

Many of the families we know in Northern Virgina who come from Iran and Pakistan seen their children to George Mason University. Unlike other colleges this is mostly a commuter school with a significant population of its students living at home with their parents and or in off campus apartment. They also usually hold jobs and are some of the best student I have met. They're well rounded fully functioning adults who live in the real world and go on to get great first jobs in Accounting and Finance upon graduation.

The heavy Indian subcontinent contingent at GMU that segregated itself was a turn off to my friend's son who looked at attending GMU.

[Anonymous]

Has OP returned yet? I want more Paki perception.

[Anonymous]

First of all, it takes more than 12 classes. Maybe 12 classes in major. I was a a science major...here is what I had to take:

Science & math:
6 classes in physics,
2 chemistry
12 Geosciences
6 math

Others:
2 english
2 humanities
2 history
2 language


120 credit hours were required.

And the only the humanities/history/language are not directly related to my work. Except, understanding the world and the why things happen make be a better person.