It just sucks - not even offered internship - (sigh)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should female hiring managers be MORE sympathetic to SAHM wanting to return to the workforce? They have a job to fill and need to do it with the best person available. That may not be the SAHM.

While it isn't a working versus SAHM debate, this thread clearly outlines one of the challenges of SAHM in our society. Many working moms have made that decision, that they don't want to be out of the professional workforce. Others don't have the choice.

However, when you have the choice and have opted for 13 years out of a professional situation, then the consequences are going to be the challenge to re-enter. It isn't on the hiring manager to be sympathetic, it is on the applicant to put themselves in the position of being the absolute best candidate.

The woe is me stuff is not befitting.

I really don't think you are reading these responses closely enough; there are "hiring managers" on here saying they would ALWAYS hire a millennial over someone who chose to stay home for any amount of time. And, if you read the post, the OP is is venting that she cannot get an UNPAID position, so she understands she has to aim low. The problem here is that women are refusing to understand that a woman who has 15 years of experience and stayed home for 5 may have some experience over someone with 2 years of experience. One poster pointed out she has MORE of a vested interest to succeed than a millennial because she has expenses they don't, and they aren't burnt out.

I don't think there is a single SAHM that doesn't know what their choice does to their career, but women are pointing out the extreme bias that they have toward a woman or man who left the workforce as being weak, stupid, not hungry enough, lazy, out of date, and so on.

Some women have been helpful on these types of threads by giving practical advice over trying to shame them. And, the OP is clearly venting that she cannot work for FREE, and yet some women like pp can't help but sink their fangs into her.

And, for every "feminist" who says this is her due, then you are not a feminist.

APPLAUSE. So very, very true.

Tell yourself what you want. This is reality, for men or for women, who leave the workforce voluntarily. Sorry the meanies make you cry.

[Anonymous]

Why do these arguments always turn into women hating on other women? Fact is if ANYONE takes 13 yrs out of the work force -- man or woman -- to change diapers and drive carpool and occasionally attend a PTA meeting -- their career trajectory will suffer. Do people think it's any easier for SAHDs? I know a SAHD dad who has been home for 7 yrs and is now trying to re-enter since his daughters are both in school -- his process sounds no better than any SAHMs process. It's not like people are leaping to give him a job or even an unpaid internship bc he's a man, while brushing off the women. If anything, he is also getting an undertone of -- so you stayed home to take care of the kids, full time, for nearly a decade WTF -- from male hiring managers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do these arguments always turn into women hating on other women? Fact is if ANYONE takes 13 yrs out of the work force -- man or woman -- to change diapers and drive carpool and occasionally attend a PTA meeting -- their career trajectory will suffer. Do people think it's any easier for SAHDs? I know a SAHD dad who has been home for 7 yrs and is now trying to re-enter since his daughters are both in school -- his process sounds no better than any SAHMs process. It's not like people are leaping to give him a job or even an unpaid internship bc he's a man, while brushing off the women. If anything, he is also getting an undertone of -- so you stayed home to take care of the kids, full time, for nearly a decade WTF -- from male hiring managers.

I think it's harder for SAHDs because, even some SAHMs I've known, are very judgmental of them. I agree with you totally. This is not about the OP. All of these posts are not about that. I hope she's still reading this and she gets that. Most of these posts are spawns of other posts. Feminism is not about staying home and everyone understanding when you come back that you were doing the most valuable thing with your time imaginable. I mean, seriously, the fact that people come on here and say something about feminism and then berate a working Mom assuming that she is a bitter divorce or gave her children to someone else "to raise" is pretty hilarious.

Feminism is not about every woman understanding every other woman and all of her choices. It's not about applauding each other all of the time. The fact is, no one has to care about anyone else's choice. You do what's best for your family and no one can say anything about it. You can go to work and put in your time and get paid the same amount as a man in the same field with the same background. A Dad can stay home and you can work full-time. THAT'S what the feminist movement got us. We can tell our girls that they can do anything they want to do. If that's staying home, then so be it. Staying home doesn't make you anti-feminist any more than going to work and believing that someone with a 10 year gap in experience is less qualified that someone right out of school for an entry level position. The fact is that the person just out of school has been "in the game" more recently. Preferably, they have worked in college. Had an internship in the past few years. It doesn't mean you think the SAHM is weak or lazy. It means she may (or may not) be less qualified than another applicant. Believing that doesn't mean anything about your view of women. It means a lot more about your view of your workplace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These "working moms" that would talk badly about SAHM's that are trying to enter the workforce are very much like the generation of men that said women don't have a place in the workplace.

They are blocking their re-entry and using lame excuses such as " you chose to raise your family for a few years" so now you are OUT. You don't belong here. There is no place for women who take a few years off in the workplace.

So now the new spin on this is- Women, if you have babies do not intend to take more than your maternity leave off, if you do- you're out. Women- you MUST continue to work right after maternity leave or your place is ONLY in the home. Your 'choice'.

Nice feministic view huh?

They are doing that because they can't get the taste of bittercakes out of their mouth.

Exactly so sad. The hostility just oozes out of their posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should female hiring managers be MORE sympathetic to SAHM wanting to return to the workforce? They have a job to fill and need to do it with the best person available. That may not be the SAHM.

While it isn't a working versus SAHM debate, this thread clearly outlines one of the challenges of SAHM in our society. Many working moms have made that decision, that they don't want to be out of the professional workforce. Others don't have the choice.

However, when you have the choice and have opted for 13 years out of a professional situation, then the consequences are going to be the challenge to re-enter. It isn't on the hiring manager to be sympathetic, it is on the applicant to put themselves in the position of being the absolute best candidate.

The woe is me stuff is not befitting.

I really don't think you are reading these responses closely enough; there are "hiring managers" on here saying they would ALWAYS hire a millennial over someone who chose to stay home for any amount of time. And, if you read the post, the OP is is venting that she cannot get an UNPAID position, so she understands she has to aim low. The problem here is that women are refusing to understand that a woman who has 15 years of experience and stayed home for 5 may have some experience over someone with 2 years of experience. One poster pointed out she has MORE of a vested interest to succeed than a millennial because she has expenses they don't, and they aren't burnt out.

I don't think there is a single SAHM that doesn't know what their choice does to their career, but women are pointing out the extreme bias that they have toward a woman or man who left the workforce as being weak, stupid, not hungry enough, lazy, out of date, and so on.

Some women have been helpful on these types of threads by giving practical advice over trying to shame them. And, the OP is clearly venting that she cannot work for FREE, and yet some women like pp can't help but sink their fangs into her.

And, for every "feminist" who says this is her due, then you are not a feminist.

APPLAUSE. So very, very true.

Tell yourself what you want. This is reality, for men or for women, who leave the workforce voluntarily. Sorry the meanies make you cry.

Sure, the reality is it's hard to get back into the workforce if you've taken a long extended absence, for any reason. However, I find it amusing more than anything that some "hiring managers" here on DCUM insist they'd hire the inexperienced, immature, recent college grad over someone who has plenty of experience under his or her belt, plus maturity to go along with it. Sorry, that definitely smacks of resentment and spite. I would never hire someone as green as a recent grad if I had another candidate with great experience and real world skills, but gaps in his/her resume. Nothing beats experience, wisdom, and maturity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These "working moms" that would talk badly about SAHM's that are trying to enter the workforce are very much like the generation of men that said women don't have a place in the workplace.

They are blocking their re-entry and using lame excuses such as " you chose to raise your family for a few years" so now you are OUT. You don't belong here. There is no place for women who take a few years off in the workplace.

So now the new spin on this is- Women, if you have babies do not intend to take more than your maternity leave off, if you do- you're out. Women- you MUST continue to work right after maternity leave or your place is ONLY in the home. Your 'choice'.

Nice feministic view huh?

They are doing that because they can't get the taste of bittercakes out of their mouth.

Exactly so sad. The hostility just oozes out of their posts.

This is idiotic. This is totally different. This is about women wanting to believe that being a feminist means you can do something no man can ever get away with and be applauded for it because it's "feminist" to do whatever you want. But then working Moms are bitter because we've been in the workforce and just....well....understand how work works.

No one every said your place is only in the home. They're saying that, if you want to get out of your home and into a job, your 10 year old experience isn't applicable unless you figure out how to brush up your skillset. Taking a few years off to raise your family is no more virtuous than taking off time to do anything else, or than working during that time. It just is what it is. And, yes, for many people it is a choice. For some people it's not a choice. But pretending it's not going to pose a problem is simply idiotic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should female hiring managers be MORE sympathetic to SAHM wanting to return to the workforce? They have a job to fill and need to do it with the best person available. That may not be the SAHM.

While it isn't a working versus SAHM debate, this thread clearly outlines one of the challenges of SAHM in our society. Many working moms have made that decision, that they don't want to be out of the professional workforce. Others don't have the choice.

However, when you have the choice and have opted for 13 years out of a professional situation, then the consequences are going to be the challenge to re-enter. It isn't on the hiring manager to be sympathetic, it is on the applicant to put themselves in the position of being the absolute best candidate.

The woe is me stuff is not befitting.

I really don't think you are reading these responses closely enough; there are "hiring managers" on here saying they would ALWAYS hire a millennial over someone who chose to stay home for any amount of time. And, if you read the post, the OP is is venting that she cannot get an UNPAID position, so she understands she has to aim low. The problem here is that women are refusing to understand that a woman who has 15 years of experience and stayed home for 5 may have some experience over someone with 2 years of experience. One poster pointed out she has MORE of a vested interest to succeed than a millennial because she has expenses they don't, and they aren't burnt out.

I don't think there is a single SAHM that doesn't know what their choice does to their career, but women are pointing out the extreme bias that they have toward a woman or man who left the workforce as being weak, stupid, not hungry enough, lazy, out of date, and so on.

Some women have been helpful on these types of threads by giving practical advice over trying to shame them. And, the OP is clearly venting that she cannot work for FREE, and yet some women like pp can't help but sink their fangs into her.

And, for every "feminist" who says this is her due, then you are not a feminist.

APPLAUSE. So very, very true.

Tell yourself what you want. This is reality, for men or for women, who leave the workforce voluntarily. Sorry the meanies make you cry.

Sure, the reality is it's hard to get back into the workforce if you've taken a long extended absence, for any reason. However, I find it amusing more than anything that some "hiring managers" here on DCUM insist they'd hire the inexperienced, immature, recent college grad over someone who has plenty of experience under his or her belt, plus maturity to go along with it. Sorry, that definitely smacks of resentment and spite. I would never hire someone as green as a recent grad if I had another candidate with great experience and real world skills, but gaps in his/her resume. Nothing beats experience, wisdom, and maturity.

Do you work?
Do you hire?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These "working moms" that would talk badly about SAHM's that are trying to enter the workforce are very much like the generation of men that said women don't have a place in the workplace.

They are blocking their re-entry and using lame excuses such as " you chose to raise your family for a few years" so now you are OUT. You don't belong here. There is no place for women who take a few years off in the workplace.

So now the new spin on this is- Women, if you have babies do not intend to take more than your maternity leave off, if you do- you're out. Women- you MUST continue to work right after maternity leave or your place is ONLY in the home. Your 'choice'.

Nice feministic view huh?

They are doing that because they can't get the taste of bittercakes out of their mouth.

Exactly so sad. The hostility just oozes out of their posts.

This is idiotic. This is totally different. This is about women wanting to believe that being a feminist means you can do something no man can ever get away with and be applauded for it because it's "feminist" to do whatever you want. But then working Moms are bitter because we've been in the workforce and just....well....understand how work works.

No one every said your place is only in the home. They're saying that, if you want to get out of your home and into a job, your 10 year old experience isn't applicable unless you figure out how to brush up your skillset. Taking a few years off to raise your family is no more virtuous than taking off time to do anything else, or than working during that time. It just is what it is. And, yes, for many people it is a choice. For some people it's not a choice. But pretending it's not going to pose a problem is simply idiotic.

I'm a feminist. What I find idiotic is that neither women or men have decent maternity/paternity leave. I find it idiotic that it difficult for either parent to take any time off from work and then successfully return to work after having kids. I find it idiotic that US employers make it as difficult as possible to have a family and then make it even MORE difficult when people who were forced to leave the workplace try to return to the workplace.

It sucks for women and men, both. It especially sucks for our families who pay the price demanded by employers.

Men and women deserve better supports in the workplace for balancing work and family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sure, the reality is it's hard to get back into the workforce if you've taken a long extended absence, for any reason. However, I find it amusing more than anything that some "hiring managers" here on DCUM insist they'd hire the inexperienced, immature, recent college grad over someone who has plenty of experience under his or her belt, plus maturity to go along with it. Sorry, that definitely smacks of resentment and spite. I would never hire someone as green as a recent grad if I had another candidate with great experience and real world skills, but gaps in his/her resume. Nothing beats experience, wisdom, and maturity.

First of all, not all recent college grads are "inexperienced and immature". Actually, some of them have been interning....or working....throughout college. What qualifies as "plenty of experience" is subjective. One of the best hires I've ever seen at work was a woman who had recently graduated with a Master's Degree, but had worked every summer at a similar federal agency and already had a clearance.....she is, additionally, exceedingly mature and professional. They did hire a contractor at one point to do IT work.....she had what I would consider an outdated resume and had taken several years off to have children. She actually was a good hire, but she left very quickly because, once she had that job on her resume, she could get a much better one. That also is a concern of hiring managers. It depends on what the experience is in, and how recent that experience has occurred. It also is subjective what level of maturity someone is at any given time and how valuable their life experience may be to the job for which they are applying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


I'm a feminist. What I find idiotic is that neither women or men have decent maternity/paternity leave. I find it idiotic that it difficult for either parent to take any time off from work and then successfully return to work after having kids. I find it idiotic that US employers make it as difficult as possible to have a family and then make it even MORE difficult when people who were forced to leave the workplace try to return to the workplace.

It sucks for women and men, both. It especially sucks for our families who pay the price demanded by employers.

Men and women deserve better supports in the workplace for balancing work and family.

I'm the one that said it was "idiotic" and I am in 100% agreement with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for all you working mothers: how do you know there is a gap because of childcare? How do you know what the gap was for?
Certainly you can't ask. Are you assuming?

1. What if they were sick with cancer and then recovered?
2. Cared for 2 elderly parents with multiple medical issues, including schizophrenia?
3. Cared for a severely disabled child at the end of their life (Krebbs disease for example)?

These are 3 real life examples from my family and social group where women took years off and then returned to the workforce.
Are these acceptable?

Usually people who have taken time off for the preceding tend to state it in an interview and/or cover letter. I'm not suggesting they go into every medical detail, but they let it be known that something serious was going on that required their full time attention; they don't make excuses for it. In contrast, many SAHMs show how "busy" and "relevant" they still were by taking about their PTA and HOA experience.

So raising your children is not something serious? How sad that we have gone so far away from having strong family values and put more stock into spending 12 hour days with strangers who we don't even like half of the time making money for someone who doesn't give flying fiddle about us for a few coins so we can impress a bunch of people who are judging us anyway? (So what if it is a run on sentence!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for all you working mothers: how do you know there is a gap because of childcare? How do you know what the gap was for?
Certainly you can't ask. Are you assuming?

1. What if they were sick with cancer and then recovered?
2. Cared for 2 elderly parents with multiple medical issues, including schizophrenia?
3. Cared for a severely disabled child at the end of their life (Krebbs disease for example)?

These are 3 real life examples from my family and social group where women took years off and then returned to the workforce.
Are these acceptable?

The fact that you are equating these situations with the average SAHMs situation - nothing like what OP said - speaks volumes about you, and not positively.

It's more akin to taking years to travel the world. Your choice? Sure. Respectable? Sure, in some circles. Something that can hurt you in the workforce? Absolutely.

No they would not! First it is not even legal for someone to ask and second it is something personal and probably emotionally charged so not really something that needs to be discussed with a stranger in an interview.

Please re-read. My question was HOW would you know what the gap was for? An interviewer is now allowed to ask, and on every thread on here it is a resounding "NO" that you never mention that you stayed home or anything about your kids, availability of childcare, etc.
So again my question for all the working moms on hiring committees is how they would know what the gap was for.

The examples you mention are not common. In those situations, they'd be most likely mentioned in a cover letter. Are you really this naive, or are you posing arguments just for the sake of it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not you OP - it's a reflection of a sick society that only values people giving up their lives to the treadmill.

When you are on your deathbed, you will remember the time you had with your children - not slaving away at "work".

Society is going to be in for a rude awakening 15-20 years from now when unemployment is at 30%+.

This!!! +1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for all you working mothers: how do you know there is a gap because of childcare? How do you know what the gap was for?
Certainly you can't ask. Are you assuming?

1. What if they were sick with cancer and then recovered?
2. Cared for 2 elderly parents with multiple medical issues, including schizophrenia?
3. Cared for a severely disabled child at the end of their life (Krebbs disease for example)?

These are 3 real life examples from my family and social group where women took years off and then returned to the workforce.
Are these acceptable?

Usually people who have taken time off for the preceding tend to state it in an interview and/or cover letter. I'm not suggesting they go into every medical detail, but they let it be known that something serious was going on that required their full time attention; they don't make excuses for it. In contrast, many SAHMs show how "busy" and "relevant" they still were by taking about their PTA and HOA experience.

So raising your children is not something serious? How sad that we have gone so far away from having strong family values and put more stock into spending 12 hour days with strangers who we don't even like half of the time making money for someone who doesn't give flying fiddle about us for a few coins so we can impress a bunch of people who are judging us anyway? (So what if it is a run on sentence!)

You don't get it. If I were hiring I would prefer someone who took a few years off to do anything including raising kids, but I wouldn't hire someone who talked about or who listed PTA experience in their resume. That just isn't equivalent yo having a job. I can't stand most of the PTA women at my kids' school.

[Anonymous]

This whole thread is some alternative reality. Most sah moms and dads do go back to work, usually when kids are in early elementary. They must get through the interview process without running into a working mom with an axe to grind.

And the hiring manager that "always" hires the recent college grad is either lying or incompetent.