Are Independent Schools for Black Children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous





Anonymous wrote:AA children are better behaved than the white children at my DCs school!! Most of the white kids need to get smacked into reality a couple of times.


racist remark : Let's turn it around --White children are better behaved than the white children at my DCs school!! Most of the AA kids need to get smacked into reality a couple of times. Bigoted, much?

NOT AT ALL RACIST. I'M WHITE AND I FEEL THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE WHITE KIDS A MY DC'S SCHOOL ARE BAD AS SHIT. PERIOD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous





Anonymous wrote:AA children are better behaved than the white children at my DCs school!! Most of the white kids need to get smacked into reality a couple of times.


racist remark : Let's turn it around --White children are better behaved than the white children at my DCs school!! Most of the AA kids need to get smacked into reality a couple of times. Bigoted, much?

NOT AT ALL RACIST. I'M WHITE AND I FEEL THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE WHITE KIDS A MY DC'S SCHOOL ARE BAD AS SHIT. PERIOD.

I can't stop laughing Your response is probably the shortest and most honest response from anybody, black or white or whatever. It is what it is! I love it, and you are honest enough to say it. I love it! You must be a hoot at parties

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are clearly a lot of people with perceptions that their children face racial bias and, at a minimum, stereotyping. Again, it's hard to feel even-handed and cool-headed if your child is in trouble, but I have seen numerous parents of all races blame the school or say their child is being picked on. The white parents who do this tend to say there is a personality conflict with a teacher or coach who does not like/picks on their child; they also will say (unless they are wealthy) that class determines the treatment of their child. Some of the AA parents use the same arguments, some raise issues of racial bias.

In all the cases I can think of, the amazing thing is that the punishment/treatment really was the same across the board as in the past. But people get selective memories and/or (perhaps even more frequently) just aren't in a position to know what has happened in the past unless they've had multiple kids stretching over many years, for example, or have a friend/spouse working at the school. It is understandable -- the instinct to defend one's young is powerful -- but at least at the school I am thinking of the suspicions of unfair disciplinary treatment, by parents of ALL races, seem misplaced. And I do think that a lot of time it distracts attention away from the real issue: the child, and how the issue arose in the first place. Maybe the school is not a good academic fit. Maybe there are learning issues. Maybe there is a substance issue that could be nipped in the bud if dealt with early. Maybe there is a situation with online addiction (the articles on screen time for teens and college students will turn your hair).

I guess I would advise AA parents or other parents of under--represented minorities to balance vigilance (because prejudice still exists) with trust in approaching the school, and try to really get to know some of your childrens' teachers so if you are getting a bad feeling about something you might have a good internal sounding board to raise your concerns.

You make all these claims..who are you to know what happened in all these cases, what the child did in each case, their race, their "treatment"? Unless you are a member of the school's disciplining body, you would not know who did what, when, why, their race, the punishment and be in any position to judge whether it is equal for AA or others.

This sounds completely contrived to me.

[Anonymous]

11:15 did you bother to read any of the articles posted. I thought not. I believe if you read them, especially the last one posted (plethora post) you will find that the articles are referencing that blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately disciplined for the same or similar offenses that white stud bets commit. I believe those articles were posted to combat the poster who called bullshit that Black students in Public schools were also treated more harshly than whites for same or similar offenses.

Failing to read and responding blindly to a title only is definitely a DCUM thing.

[Anonymous]

11:32's response is still the best. Just substitute any race, and it's a one size fits all.

[Anonymous]

It seems that most of the complaints about aa children not fitting are geared to boys only. do you know of any issues with aa girls?

[Anonymous]

It is really easy to sit on an anonymous board and talk about these issues. It takes a different type of person to deal with it in real life.

If many AA parents feel like their children are treated differently, it is incumbent upon the school to somehow examine the issue. Let's take out race since there is some hostility toward the alleged "race card." Let's insert gender. If a female student feels discrimanted against in a male-dominated school for being female, with mostly male administrators and staff, the school has an obligation to at least examine the validity of this claim and review any statistics/policies that could be evidence of such discrimination. If the school does not act in that manner, it can be inferred that the school does not value its female student body nor is it interested in fixing the issues that may exist related to gender.

And as for the parents at the school, I am not sure there would be such backlash agaist the parents of the female students if gender happened to be the issue. I think that in progressive DC, we can look at gender honestly, but because we really don't want to deal with this ugly word racism, we won't look in the mirror. Oh, and I am not just talking non-AA people. Everyone needs to look in the mirror.

"I am not racist. I can't be. I have black friends!" *clutches purse, locks car door when a group of young black people walk by*

[Anonymous]

I've posted only intermittently on this thread, because I don't think it's going anywhere productive. However, your comment is thoughtful, so I'm responding now.

Anonymous wrote:If many AA parents feel like their children are treated differently, it is incumbent upon the school to somehow examine the issue. Let's take out race since there is some hostility toward the alleged "race card." Let's insert gender. If a female student feels discrimanted against in a male-dominated school for being female, with mostly male administrators and staff, the school has an obligation to at least examine the validity of this claim and review any statistics/policies that could be evidence of such discrimination. If the school does not act in that manner, it can be inferred that the school does not value its female student body nor is it interested in fixing the issues that may exist related to gender.

I completely agree with your point that if many AA parents feel their children are being treated differently, the school should investigate and respond. Indeed, I'd go even further: If one single parent feels her child is being treated differently, the school should investigate. However, I don't expect any school to investigate until the parent raises the issue. I also wouldn't expect any school to investigate based on vague and anonymous reports on DCUM. The initial burden is on the parent to raise the issue with the school. I recognize that raising a controversial issue can be hard for some people, but IMHO the initial burden remains on the parent to act.

Also, just because a parent feels her child is being treated differently does not necessarily mean any discrimination is occurring. Sometimes it might be, and other times it might not. I'm sure we all can think of examples where simple misunderstandings or heightened sensitivities led to people inaccurately feeling mistreated. Certainly misunderstanding happen all the time, and everyone has a heightened sensitivity when it comes to her own children and to race. The school should investigate all such complaints, but that doesn't mean the school has to agree with the parent's interpretation of the situation. I'd hope that if the situation arises from a misunderstanding or misinterpretation, the school would arrange for communication among all people involved, to clear the air.

I have not seen anyone here suggest that discrimination does not occur. It happens in schools and on the street. It can be open or very subtle. It can be based on race, or dozens of other characteristics. I'd be willing to bet there's not a single person in the entire DC area who does not unfairly discriminate at least once a month. And similarly, I'd bet that everyone feels unfairly discriminated against at least once a month.

And as for the parents at the school, I am not sure there would be such backlash agaist the parents of the female students if gender happened to be the issue. I think that in progressive DC, we can look at gender honestly, but because we really don't want to deal with this ugly word racism, we won't look in the mirror. Oh, and I am not just talking non-AA people. Everyone needs to look in the mirror.

Perhaps I am naive, but I think people in DC should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues. However, I'm sure you'd agree that even if we can confront racial issues directly, they should be addressed with care. Suggesting someone is racist is an ugly insult, and will not lead to any productive discussion.

"I am not racist. I can't be. I have black friends!" *clutches purse, locks car door when a group of young black people walk by*

I don't really understand why you included this comment at the end. I don't think it adds to the discussion in any productive way. I'm sure many people could think of stereotypical (and similarly insulting) depictions of AAs too. Maybe I misunderstand your purpose.

[Anonymous]

AA girls fair better in majority white environments because they adjust better. I don't think they assimilate. They realize when they look in the mirror they will never be blond, have blue eyes, or sit on their hair. As they get older they begin to recognize and appreciate the things that make them special and develop resiliance.

AA boys are generally more sensitive. Thus, they expect to be treated fairly and are more likely to speak out because of this expectation. If they are hit; they will hit back. If they are pushed; they will push back. If you keep taking their pencils so they can't get their class work finished (white girls) they will get frustrated and act out. In our experience, some white boys learn a skill early on how to appear innocent while they are misbehaving. AA boys generally do not act in secret. My son and I have had many conversations about why he can not retaliate when someone does something to him; he will be the one that gets noticed. He is always to report to the teacher who generally does nothing.

I am a native AA Washingtonian who attended a highly regarded independent school. Because of my experiences and the experiences of almost all of my AA classmates and friends; I chose not to enroll my son in one even though he was offered a full ride (based on multiple other factors - not FA). I instead paid MoCo to send him to one of the a good MoCo public schools (it helps that I don't think much of any of the independent's lower school academics.) Although we have had issues such as the ones described above; I feel it is the best situation because public school allows him to develop his identity and I hope he feels less pressure to assimilate at a later age. Accommodation is more along the lines of what I am seeking. I plan to apply to the Independents no earlier than 7th grade; would love to do 9th as this is where I have more respect for the academics.

I like public school because he has the opportunity to continuously improve his behavior every year without developing a school reputation. In his majority white public school, his teachers have been well meaning; however, he is held to a different standard. He is handsome, bright and personable. Because of this I find white female teachers want to mold him into their perfect ideal. He has never been disciplined but I receive notes for example if he doesn't line up fast enough ("I had to call him twice to get in line"). While this may have been annoying to her; I doubt other parents are receiving this type of note. It is also very disheartening to him when the teacher yells at the class all day for talking and then he talks out of turn for the first time at 3:10 and he gets in trouble. This stuff actually affects him personally because he tries so hard to be good. We have had to adopt the "what is our agenda; don't let people get you off the yellow brick road; need to understand that the teacher has a large class, etc" approach. Yet he never gets compliments for his strengths (Sir/M'am - politeness - honesty - hard work.) His current teacher even told him that he was doing to much homework when she reduced it because of other parental complaints and we told him that he had to continue to do it.

The only AA girl I know who developed serious issues (nervous breakdown Senior year) was the daughter of an athlete, extremely pretty, very personable, with a fabulous singing voice. She could not handle the discrimination - no AA ever picked for cheerleading team, AAs not accepted in the white cliques, never got picked for anything other than chorus even though her voice was pure beauty. We never understood why she was always complaining - it was par for the course for us.

Almost every bright AA male I know that attended Sidwell from K -12 either developed mental health issues, became an underachiever or is still finding themselves. The boys try really hard to fit in rather than adopting a "I don't care; I'm going to get my education in spite of you" attitude. When they don't fit in they more often act out leading to discipline issues or they become someone that you don't want you DS to be. I'm not talking about talking or acting white. You generally won't pick up on this until they are in college or later. By then they have molded their identity and it is too late. Think Clarence Thomas as an outspoken example.

I don't think DC has changed that much. Native white Washingtonians don't realize that there are many white/Asian non Washingtonians that keep moving here with all their prejudices. It only takes one negative child to affect the class dynamics when your child is in a substantially white class. The Eastern European immigrants are particularly negative. But people bring their prejudices from other states. Look at some of the comments on this thread for example that came from out of the sky. Newsflash - the drugs in independent schools generally come from students in Potomac as are the wild parties. It's not because of the kid's race - in DC the neighbors call the Police.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an issue in public and private schools, OP. In public schools, black males have a different suspension rate for the exact same offenses. It's just how the world is. You are at the school, hopefully, because you have identified something your child gets there that he cannot get anywhere else, not because paying tuition entitles you to a life void of racism. We all have to work toward that together.

I can tell you that the same attitudes exist amongst parents in the public/charter school world in DC as well. "How can we get the poor kids out of the school that is in our neighborhood?" "How can we get more white kids to the school?" "Yes, the school has lots of AAs but they are high-SES, so, you know..."

You live with this, you deal with this and you always will. The US has a strong legacy of racism. The best thing you can do for your child is to give him a great education so that he can help to educate the world out of ignorance. He will know what it means to be on the outside (and btw unless he goes to an HBCU, he will experience this at the next level anyway) and hopefully he can turn that into something positive. To be young, gifted and black...a blessing and a curse.

I call bs on the bolded comment above, cite the source, and post a link to the peer reviewed jouranl article and let';s see the sample size, longitudinal range of teh study, etc..

Not the PP, but here's a few articles:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02732170701796429
http://edr.sagepub.com/content/39/1/59.short
Skiba, Russell J., et al. "Parsing Disciplinary Disproportionality: Contributions of Behavior, Student, and School Characteristics to Suspension and Expulsion." (2012), p.6
http://uex.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/07/30/0042085912450575.abstract

Also to the poster who called BS. Please check out the "BS" sources such as the Washington Post article and studies done by the Department of Justice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-washington-area-african-american-students-suspended-and-expelled-two-to-five-times-as-often-as-whites/2011/12/23/gIQA8WNQNP_story.html?wpisrc=al_national

Again, not to imply DC independents have the exact same issues, but you cannot deny there is a disparity.

I read the Post article and all it said was that there were more expulsions/suspensions for black students, in an arithmetic sense, not that there was a study saying blacks were suspended more than whites for the same offenses. Clearly the disparity alone merits some attention to see if bias is present, but I don't see the data saying that it's been established that disparate treatment for the same offense is pervasive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an issue in public and private schools, OP. In public schools, black males have a different suspension rate for the exact same offenses. It's just how the world is. You are at the school, hopefully, because you have identified something your child gets there that he cannot get anywhere else, not because paying tuition entitles you to a life void of racism. We all have to work toward that together.

I can tell you that the same attitudes exist amongst parents in the public/charter school world in DC as well. "How can we get the poor kids out of the school that is in our neighborhood?" "How can we get more white kids to the school?" "Yes, the school has lots of AAs but they are high-SES, so, you know..."

You live with this, you deal with this and you always will. The US has a strong legacy of racism. The best thing you can do for your child is to give him a great education so that he can help to educate the world out of ignorance. He will know what it means to be on the outside (and btw unless he goes to an HBCU, he will experience this at the next level anyway) and hopefully he can turn that into something positive. To be young, gifted and black...a blessing and a curse.

I call bs on the bolded comment above, cite the source, and post a link to the peer reviewed jouranl article and let';s see the sample size, longitudinal range of teh study, etc..

Not the PP, but here's a few articles:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02732170701796429
http://edr.sagepub.com/content/39/1/59.short
Skiba, Russell J., et al. "Parsing Disciplinary Disproportionality: Contributions of Behavior, Student, and School Characteristics to Suspension and Expulsion." (2012), p.6
http://uex.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/07/30/0042085912450575.abstract

Also to the poster who called BS. Please check out the "BS" sources such as the Washington Post article and studies done by the Department of Justice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-washington-area-african-american-students-suspended-and-expelled-two-to-five-times-as-often-as-whites/2011/12/23/gIQA8WNQNP_story.html?wpisrc=al_national

Again, not to imply DC independents have the exact same issues, but you cannot deny there is a disparity.

I now looked at the abstracts too -- all they say is that there is a higher incidence of total disciplinary actions against blacks than whites. I don't see anything in there to suggest the studies matched the type of discipline with offense, and found that whites were punished less for similar offenses than blacks. If 10 back students are expelled for drugs, and 4 white students, but all 14 drug users were expelled, one can't say the higher number of black students is attributable to racism just on that data. Now, if white students who took drugs were suspended while minorities were expelled, then I think the inference can be made just on the numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an issue in public and private schools, OP. In public schools, black males have a different suspension rate for the exact same offenses. It's just how the world is. You are at the school, hopefully, because you have identified something your child gets there that he cannot get anywhere else, not because paying tuition entitles you to a life void of racism. We all have to work toward that together.

I can tell you that the same attitudes exist amongst parents in the public/charter school world in DC as well. "How can we get the poor kids out of the school that is in our neighborhood?" "How can we get more white kids to the school?" "Yes, the school has lots of AAs but they are high-SES, so, you know..."

You live with this, you deal with this and you always will. The US has a strong legacy of racism. The best thing you can do for your child is to give him a great education so that he can help to educate the world out of ignorance. He will know what it means to be on the outside (and btw unless he goes to an HBCU, he will experience this at the next level anyway) and hopefully he can turn that into something positive. To be young, gifted and black...a blessing and a curse.

I call bs on the bolded comment above, cite the source, and post a link to the peer reviewed jouranl article and let';s see the sample size, longitudinal range of teh study, etc..

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-26/news/ct-met-unequal-school-discipline-20120926_1_black-students-superintendent-nicholas-wahl-federal-data

This article does go to the issue of harsher punishment for the same offense, thx for posting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous





Anonymous wrote:AA children are better behaved than the white children at my DCs school!! Most of the white kids need to get smacked into reality a couple of times.


racist remark : Let's turn it around --White children are better behaved than the white children at my DCs school!! Most of the AA kids need to get smacked into reality a couple of times. Bigoted, much?

NOT AT ALL RACIST. I'M WHITE AND I FEEL THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE WHITE KIDS A MY DC'S SCHOOL ARE BAD AS SHIT. PERIOD.

I can't stop laughing Your response is probably the shortest and most honest response from anybody, black or white or whatever. It is what it is! I love it, and you are honest enough to say it. I love it! You must be a hoot at parties

The sad part is that she's paying for that school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are clearly a lot of people with perceptions that their children face racial bias and, at a minimum, stereotyping. Again, it's hard to feel even-handed and cool-headed if your child is in trouble, but I have seen numerous parents of all races blame the school or say their child is being picked on. The white parents who do this tend to say there is a personality conflict with a teacher or coach who does not like/picks on their child; they also will say (unless they are wealthy) that class determines the treatment of their child. Some of the AA parents use the same arguments, some raise issues of racial bias.

In all the cases I can think of, the amazing thing is that the punishment/treatment really was the same across the board as in the past. But people get selective memories and/or (perhaps even more frequently) just aren't in a position to know what has happened in the past unless they've had multiple kids stretching over many years, for example, or have a friend/spouse working at the school. It is understandable -- the instinct to defend one's young is powerful -- but at least at the school I am thinking of the suspicions of unfair disciplinary treatment, by parents of ALL races, seem misplaced. And I do think that a lot of time it distracts attention away from the real issue: the child, and how the issue arose in the first place. Maybe the school is not a good academic fit. Maybe there are learning issues. Maybe there is a substance issue that could be nipped in the bud if dealt with early. Maybe there is a situation with online addiction (the articles on screen time for teens and college students will turn your hair).

I guess I would advise AA parents or other parents of under--represented minorities to balance vigilance (because prejudice still exists) with trust in approaching the school, and try to really get to know some of your childrens' teachers so if you are getting a bad feeling about something you might have a good internal sounding board to raise your concerns.

You make all these claims..who are you to know what happened in all these cases, what the child did in each case, their race, their "treatment"? Unless you are a member of the school's disciplining body, you would not know who did what, when, why, their race, the punishment and be in any position to judge whether it is equal for AA or others.

This sounds completely contrived to me.

If the school is small, is one where discipline is announced to the student body, and students sit on the disciplinary body, the process is pretty transparent. If you pay attention over the years, a student or parent can get a very good sense of who did what, whether they took responsibility, and the consequences.

[Anonymous]

I don't need a study or report to tell me what I have seen with my own eyes. Enjoy your ignorant bliss.