Are Independent Schools for Black Children

[Anonymous]

I'm white. I once went to a social event where there were about 3,000 people there, and I was the only non-black person.

I felt like everyone was looking at me. They weren't.

In fact, no one noticed me at all.

It was all in my head. I think a lot of the posters here should reflect on that.

[Anonymous]

Question: If you are not AA but you perceive racism at your child's school, either first-hand or through what others at the school tell you, what would AA parents want you to do? Be an ear? Bring it up to admin? Try to include AA kids more in outside activities? We can talk about this in theory and argue about its existence, but the real issue is that people feel like outsiders in our community. And very few of us send our kids to school because we think it is great if that school makes "different" people feel unwelcome. Is there an action here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm white. I once went to a social event where there were about 3,000 people there, and I was the only non-black person.

I felt like everyone was looking at me. They weren't.

In fact, no one noticed me at all.

It was all in my head. I think a lot of the posters here should reflect on that.

Really, PP? What if you had to exist like this each day and didn't have the option of returning to your world.

Must be a real cakewalk for a child to attend a school each day where he's pushing down his feelings of being the other and who realizes he's only "seen" when he's suspected of doing something wrong. Most boys want to fit into their environment, not pretend that they're invisible.

I'm sure you claim that you are colorblind too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm white. I once went to a social event where there were about 3,000 people there, and I was the only non-black person.

I felt like everyone was looking at me. They weren't.

In fact, no one noticed me at all.

It was all in my head. I think a lot of the posters here should reflect on that.

Really, PP? What if you had to exist like this each day and didn't have the option of returning to your world.

Must be a real cakewalk for a child to attend a school each day where he's pushing down his feelings of being the other and who realizes he's only "seen" when he's suspected of doing something wrong. Most boys want to fit into their environment, not pretend that they're invisible.

I'm sure you claim that you are colorblind too.

+1000!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm white. I once went to a social event where there were about 3,000 people there, and I was the only non-black person.

I felt like everyone was looking at me. They weren't.

In fact, no one noticed me at all.

It was all in my head. I think a lot of the posters here should reflect on that.

Really, PP? What if you had to exist like this each day and didn't have the option of returning to your world.

Must be a real cakewalk for a child to attend a school each day where he's pushing down his feelings of being the other and who realizes he's only "seen" when he's suspected of doing something wrong. Most boys want to fit into their environment, not pretend that they're invisible.

I'm sure you claim that you are colorblind too.

+10,000

+1000!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AA girls fair better in majority white environments because they adjust better. I don't think they assimilate. They realize when they look in the mirror they will never be blond, have blue eyes, or sit on their hair. As they get older they begin to recognize and appreciate the things that make them special and develop resiliance.

AA boys are generally more sensitive. Thus, they expect to be treated fairly and are more likely to speak out because of this expectation. If they are hit; they will hit back. If they are pushed; they will push back. If you keep taking their pencils so they can't get their class work finished (white girls) they will get frustrated and act out. In our experience, some white boys learn a skill early on how to appear innocent while they are misbehaving. AA boys generally do not act in secret. My son and I have had many conversations about why he can not retaliate when someone does something to him; he will be the one that gets noticed. He is always to report to the teacher who generally does nothing.

I am a native AA Washingtonian who attended a highly regarded independent school. Because of my experiences and the experiences of almost all of my AA classmates and friends; I chose not to enroll my son in one even though he was offered a full ride (based on multiple other factors - not FA). I instead paid MoCo to send him to one of the a good MoCo public schools (it helps that I don't think much of any of the independent's lower school academics.) Although we have had issues such as the ones described above; I feel it is the best situation because public school allows him to develop his identity and I hope he feels less pressure to assimilate at a later age. Accommodation is more along the lines of what I am seeking. I plan to apply to the Independents no earlier than 7th grade; would love to do 9th as this is where I have more respect for the academics.

I like public school because he has the opportunity to continuously improve his behavior every year without developing a school reputation. In his majority white public school, his teachers have been well meaning; however, he is held to a different standard. He is handsome, bright and personable. Because of this I find white female teachers want to mold him into their perfect ideal. He has never been disciplined but I receive notes for example if he doesn't line up fast enough ("I had to call him twice to get in line"). While this may have been annoying to her; I doubt other parents are receiving this type of note. It is also very disheartening to him when the teacher yells at the class all day for talking and then he talks out of turn for the first time at 3:10 and he gets in trouble. This stuff actually affects him personally because he tries so hard to be good. We have had to adopt the "what is our agenda; don't let people get you off the yellow brick road; need to understand that the teacher has a large class, etc" approach. Yet he never gets compliments for his strengths (Sir/M'am - politeness - honesty - hard work.) His current teacher even told him that he was doing to much homework when she reduced it because of other parental complaints and we told him that he had to continue to do it.

The only AA girl I know who developed serious issues (nervous breakdown Senior year) was the daughter of an athlete, extremely pretty, very personable, with a fabulous singing voice. She could not handle the discrimination - no AA ever picked for cheerleading team, AAs not accepted in the white cliques, never got picked for anything other than chorus even though her voice was pure beauty. We never understood why she was always complaining - it was par for the course for us.

Almost every bright AA male I know that attended Sidwell from K -12 either developed mental health issues, became an underachiever or is still finding themselves. The boys try really hard to fit in rather than adopting a "I don't care; I'm going to get my education in spite of you" attitude. When they don't fit in they more often act out leading to discipline issues or they become someone that you don't want you DS to be. I'm not talking about talking or acting white. You generally won't pick up on this until they are in college or later. By then they have molded their identity and it is too late. Think Clarence Thomas as an outspoken example.

I don't think DC has changed that much. Native white Washingtonians don't realize that there are many white/Asian non Washingtonians that keep moving here with all their prejudices. It only takes one negative child to affect the class dynamics when your child is in a substantially white class. The Eastern European immigrants are particularly negative. But people bring their prejudices from other states. Look at some of the comments on this thread for example that came from out of the sky. Newsflash - the drugs in independent schools generally come from students in Potomac as are the wild parties. It's not because of the kid's race - in DC the neighbors call the Police.

Thank you for an extremely thoughtful response. I am white and have had kids at public and private. I think you are spot on to put off private until middle school or hs years. I have witnessed (in private mainly) AA boys being held to a high a lower standard. I think I understand a little better why. The ones who seemed to be held to a higher standard really did have impulse control issues that affected their academic performance. The ones who seemed to get more of a pass on behavior had no academic issues. Were these boys held to same standard as the white boys. Not sure. But there were certainly several white boys who left the school early on for greater academic support. So academic fit is important overall.

Thinking about it now, it appears the school was just trying to give the kids with the academic ability the same shot to succeed as everyone else at the school. I don't want to be too specific but I remember being at an event at school when the kids were pretty young and one teacher constantly harping on an AA boy. He was being disruptive, more so than other children, but I thought it was still within the range that should be acceptable. I found the teacher's constant attention to him to be annoying. Of course, I don't know what would have happen if she did not correct. Perhaps her experience was that his behavior would escalate.

Flash forward two or three years and a AA boy (different) is being pretty mean to some kids in the class. Parents are called (not ignored) but no real consequences for the kid. This seems kind of typical for the school but there seems to be an underlying message that he gets off easy because he is AA. I don't think he got off easy because he is AA, I think he got off easy because he is a strong student from a great family that does what every kid in the world does from time to time: acts out.

Anyway, thanks for allowing me to put this in perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've posted only intermittently on this thread, because I don't think it's going anywhere productive. However, your comment is thoughtful, so I'm responding now.

Anonymous wrote:If many AA parents feel like their children are treated differently, it is incumbent upon the school to somehow examine the issue. Let's take out race since there is some hostility toward the alleged "race card." Let's insert gender. If a female student feels discrimanted against in a male-dominated school for being female, with mostly male administrators and staff, the school has an obligation to at least examine the validity of this claim and review any statistics/policies that could be evidence of such discrimination. If the school does not act in that manner, it can be inferred that the school does not value its female student body nor is it interested in fixing the issues that may exist related to gender.

I completely agree with your point that if many AA parents feel their children are being treated differently, the school should investigate and respond. Indeed, I'd go even further: If one single parent feels her child is being treated differently, the school should investigate. However, I don't expect any school to investigate until the parent raises the issue. I also wouldn't expect any school to investigate based on vague and anonymous reports on DCUM. The initial burden is on the parent to raise the issue with the school. I recognize that raising a controversial issue can be hard for some people, but IMHO the initial burden remains on the parent to act.

Also, just because a parent feels her child is being treated differently does not necessarily mean any discrimination is occurring. Sometimes it might be, and other times it might not. I'm sure we all can think of examples where simple misunderstandings or heightened sensitivities led to people inaccurately feeling mistreated. Certainly misunderstanding happen all the time, and everyone has a heightened sensitivity when it comes to her own children and to race. The school should investigate all such complaints, but that doesn't mean the school has to agree with the parent's interpretation of the situation. I'd hope that if the situation arises from a misunderstanding or misinterpretation, the school would arrange for communication among all people involved, to clear the air.

I have not seen anyone here suggest that discrimination does not occur. It happens in schools and on the street. It can be open or very subtle. It can be based on race, or dozens of other characteristics. I'd be willing to bet there's not a single person in the entire DC area who does not unfairly discriminate at least once a month. And similarly, I'd bet that everyone feels unfairly discriminated against at least once a month.

And as for the parents at the school, I am not sure there would be such backlash agaist the parents of the female students if gender happened to be the issue. I think that in progressive DC, we can look at gender honestly, but because we really don't want to deal with this ugly word racism, we won't look in the mirror. Oh, and I am not just talking non-AA people. Everyone needs to look in the mirror.

Perhaps I am naive, but I think people in DC should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues. However, I'm sure you'd agree that even if we can confront racial issues directly, they should be addressed with care. Suggesting someone is racist is an ugly insult, and will not lead to any productive discussion.

"I am not racist. I can't be. I have black friends!" *clutches purse, locks car door when a group of young black people walk by*

I don't really understand why you included this comment at the end. I don't think it adds to the discussion in any productive way. I'm sure many people could think of stereotypical (and similarly insulting) depictions of AAs too. Maybe I misunderstand your purpose.

I am not the PP but am AA. Yes, you did misunderstand the purpose of his post. Every single black person can relate at least one experience in their lives where they have incurred the suspicion of some one white/Asian/non-black while in a department stores and followed, walking/driving in non-black neighborhoods, clutching purses in elevators, people getting OFF elevators when someone black enters, ignored in stores, thought to be gang members, etc.

I agree with your comment that people should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues but it goes much, much deeper than sitting down and having a cup of joe and talking about it. It goes directly to the ingrained reasons someone white or other feels it necessary to clutch your purse when someone black is in your presence.

Recently, I had to pick up my DC from a friend's house in Potomac. It was late night and as many times as I've been to the house, I always have problems finding the house at night. Not only was I followed by neighborhood security, they stopped in front of me, forcing me to stop, and asked me where I was going. I replied "That is none of your business. This is a public street". Yes, I wanted to spew a few choice words but the survival instinct says I don't want to be shot or arrested. I could have said I'm going to Mary Smith's house, and my DC is visiting because they are friends, and I don't live out here but what a lovely neighborhood this is and you are so diligent for guarding it from people like me and would you like to see my ID to make sure I'm not a criminal?

Instead, I drove around them (with them following me) and a couple of blocks later pulled into the driveway of our friend's house with security blocking my car. My friend came out of her house thinking I might be hurt or something disastrous had happened. When I explained what was going on, she was absolutely mortified and embarrassed giving security a very strong piece of her mind and herself using a few well-deserved choice words. The difference is that while I was restrained from speaking my mind because of misplaced consequences, my white friend had no reservations about speaking her mind and damn any consequences. This is conditioning on both our parts, and I tell this story to corroborate what some AA posters have spoken about the survival instinct.

I think your post is well-meaning, truly. But I think you minimize the impact of racism (and yes, it's an ugly word but it's impact is even worse). The PP's comment about the clutching purses most definitely adds to the discussion in a positive way. If you don't understand where we have been, then you won't understand why.

[Anonymous]

Should read higher and lower standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm white. I once went to a social event where there were about 3,000 people there, and I was the only non-black person.

I felt like everyone was looking at me. They weren't.

In fact, no one noticed me at all.

It was all in my head. I think a lot of the posters here should reflect on that.

Really, PP? What if you had to exist like this each day and didn't have the option of returning to your world.

Must be a real cakewalk for a child to attend a school each day where he's pushing down his feelings of being the other and who realizes he's only "seen" when he's suspected of doing something wrong. Most boys want to fit into their environment, not pretend that they're invisible.

I'm sure you claim that you are colorblind too.

+10,000

+1000!!

Really? I may be alone, but I found PP#2's comment to be fairly frustrating and unproductive.

She's certainly correct that AA children often face very difficult pressures. And no doubt she's correct that a white person spending an evening at an AA event cannot claim to have felt the full measure of what an AA lives.

However, I surely think PP#2 would promote greater understanding if she'd tamp down her cutting sarcasm. It's pretty clear PP#1 was not trying to equate her night out with the entire AA experience. She was just saying that sometimes people who feel like outsiders fear they are being judged as outsiders, when in reality no one's judging them at all. Clearly discrimination and unfair judging occurs, but not every act of judging is unfair or discriminatory.

When I get a stern message from the school about my child's bad behavior on the playground, I might worry that it's motivated by the color of my skin, or by my accent, or by the paltry amount I was able to contribute to the school's annual fund driving campaign. And sometimes, maybe it is! But just because I always worry about it doesn't mean I'm always right. Sometimes my child misbehaves and deserves a stern lecture.

[Anonymous]

Is it the consensus that AA boy have issues at all independent schools or certain ones?

What schools are they? Just guessing...the "BIG 3"

[Anonymous]

SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME THE BEST INDEPENDENT SCHOOL TO SEND AN AFRICAN AMERICAN BOY, IF ANY.

[Anonymous]

WHITE PERSON girls fair better in majority white environments because they adjust better. I don't think they assimilate. They realize when they look in the mirror they will never be black or supermodels. As they get older they begin to recognize and appreciate the things that make them special and develop resiliance.

WHITE PERSON boys are generally more sensitive. Thus, they expect to be treated fairly and are more likely to speak out because of this expectation. If they are hit; they will hit back. If they are pushed; they will push back. If you keep taking their pencils so they can't get their class work finished (white girls) they will get frustrated and act out. In our experience, some black boys learn a skill early on how to appear innocent while they are misbehaving. WHITE PERSON boys generally do not act in secret. My son and I have had many conversations about why he can not retaliate when someone does something to him; he will be the one that gets noticed. He is always to report to the teacher who generally does nothing.

I am a native WHITE PERSON Washingtonian who attended a highly regarded independent school. Because of my experiences and the experiences of almost all of my WHITE PERSON classmates and friends; I chose not to enroll my son in one even though he was offered a full ride (based on multiple other factors - not FA). I instead paid MoCo to send him to one of the a good MoCo public schools (it helps that I don't think much of any of the independent's lower school academics.) Although we have had issues such as the ones described above; I feel it is the best situation because public school allows him to develop his identity and I hope he feels less pressure to assimilate at a later age. Accommodation is more along the lines of what I am seeking. I plan to apply to the Independents no earlier than 7th grade; would love to do 9th as this is where I have more respect for the academics.

I like public school because he has the opportunity to continuously improve his behavior every year without developing a school reputation. In his majority white public school, his teachers have been well meaning; however, he is held to a different standard. He is handsome, bright and personable. Because of this I find white female teachers want to mold him into their perfect ideal. He has never been disciplined but I receive notes for example if he doesn't line up fast enough ("I had to call him twice to get in line"). While this may have been annoying to her; I doubt other parents are receiving this type of note. It is also very disheartening to him when the teacher yells at the class all day for talking and then he talks out of turn for the first time at 3:10 and he gets in trouble. This stuff actually affects him personally because he tries so hard to be good. We have had to adopt the "what is our agenda; don't let people get you off the yellow brick road; need to understand that the teacher has a large class, etc" approach. Yet he never gets compliments for his strengths (Sir/M'am - politeness - honesty - hard work.) His current teacher even told him that he was doing to much homework when she reduced it because of other parental complaints and we told him that he had to continue to do it.

The only WHITE PERSON girl I know who developed serious issues (nervous breakdown Senior year) was the daughter of an athlete, extremely pretty, very personable, with a fabulous singing voice. She could not handle the discrimination - no WHITE PERSON ever picked for cheerleading team, WHITE PERSONs not accepted in the white cliques, never got picked for anything other than chorus even though her voice was pure beauty. We never understood why she was always complaining - it was par for the course for us.

Almost every bright WHITE PERSON male I know that attended Sidwell from K -12 either developed mental health issues, became an underachiever or is still finding themselves. The boys try really hard to fit in rather than adopting a "I don't care; I'm going to get my education in spite of you" attitude. When they don't fit in they more often act out leading to discipline issues or they become someone that you don't want you DS to be. I'm not talking about talking or acting white. You generally won't pick up on this until they are in college or later. By then they have molded their identity and it is too late. Think Clarence Thomas as an outspoken example.

I don't think DC has changed that much. Native black Washingtonians don't realize that there are many white Washingtonians that keep moving here with all their prejudices. It only takes one negative child to affect the class dynamics when your child is in a substantially white class. The Black immigrants are particularly negative. But people bring their prejudices from other states. Look at some of the comments on this thread for example that came from out of the sky. Newsflash - the drugs in independent schools generally come from students in Potomac as are the wild parties. It's not because of the kid's race - in DC the neighbors call the Police.

[Anonymous]

Almost every bright BLACK male I know that attended Sidwell from K -12 either developed mental health issues, became an underachiever or is still finding themselves. The boys try really hard to fit in rather than adopting a "I don't care; I'm going to get my education in spite of you" attitude. When they don't fit in they more often act out leading to discipline issues or they become someone that you don't want you DS to be. I'm not talking about talking or acting white. You generally won't pick up on this until they are in college or later. By then they have molded their identity and it is too late. Think Clarence Thomas as an outspoken example.

NO OTHER INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS>>HUH

JUST SIDWELL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've posted only intermittently on this thread, because I don't think it's going anywhere productive. However, your comment is thoughtful, so I'm responding now.

Anonymous wrote:If many AA parents feel like their children are treated differently, it is incumbent upon the school to somehow examine the issue. Let's take out race since there is some hostility toward the alleged "race card." Let's insert gender. If a female student feels discrimanted against in a male-dominated school for being female, with mostly male administrators and staff, the school has an obligation to at least examine the validity of this claim and review any statistics/policies that could be evidence of such discrimination. If the school does not act in that manner, it can be inferred that the school does not value its female student body nor is it interested in fixing the issues that may exist related to gender.

I completely agree with your point that if many AA parents feel their children are being treated differently, the school should investigate and respond. Indeed, I'd go even further: If one single parent feels her child is being treated differently, the school should investigate. However, I don't expect any school to investigate until the parent raises the issue. I also wouldn't expect any school to investigate based on vague and anonymous reports on DCUM. The initial burden is on the parent to raise the issue with the school. I recognize that raising a controversial issue can be hard for some people, but IMHO the initial burden remains on the parent to act.

Also, just because a parent feels her child is being treated differently does not necessarily mean any discrimination is occurring. Sometimes it might be, and other times it might not. I'm sure we all can think of examples where simple misunderstandings or heightened sensitivities led to people inaccurately feeling mistreated. Certainly misunderstanding happen all the time, and everyone has a heightened sensitivity when it comes to her own children and to race. The school should investigate all such complaints, but that doesn't mean the school has to agree with the parent's interpretation of the situation. I'd hope that if the situation arises from a misunderstanding or misinterpretation, the school would arrange for communication among all people involved, to clear the air.

I have not seen anyone here suggest that discrimination does not occur. It happens in schools and on the street. It can be open or very subtle. It can be based on race, or dozens of other characteristics. I'd be willing to bet there's not a single person in the entire DC area who does not unfairly discriminate at least once a month. And similarly, I'd bet that everyone feels unfairly discriminated against at least once a month.

And as for the parents at the school, I am not sure there would be such backlash agaist the parents of the female students if gender happened to be the issue. I think that in progressive DC, we can look at gender honestly, but because we really don't want to deal with this ugly word racism, we won't look in the mirror. Oh, and I am not just talking non-AA people. Everyone needs to look in the mirror.

Perhaps I am naive, but I think people in DC should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues. However, I'm sure you'd agree that even if we can confront racial issues directly, they should be addressed with care. Suggesting someone is racist is an ugly insult, and will not lead to any productive discussion.

"I am not racist. I can't be. I have black friends!" *clutches purse, locks car door when a group of young black people walk by*

I don't really understand why you included this comment at the end. I don't think it adds to the discussion in any productive way. I'm sure many people could think of stereotypical (and similarly insulting) depictions of AAs too. Maybe I misunderstand your purpose.

I am not the PP but am AA. Yes, you did misunderstand the purpose of his post. Every single black person can relate at least one experience in their lives where they have incurred the suspicion of some one white/Asian/non-black while in a department stores and followed, walking/driving in non-black neighborhoods, clutching purses in elevators, people getting OFF elevators when someone black enters, ignored in stores, thought to be gang members, etc.

I agree with your comment that people should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues but it goes much, much deeper than sitting down and having a cup of joe and talking about it. It goes directly to the ingrained reasons someone white or other feels it necessary to clutch your purse when someone black is in your presence.

Recently, I had to pick up my DC from a friend's house in Potomac. It was late night and as many times as I've been to the house, I always have problems finding the house at night. Not only was I followed by neighborhood security, they stopped in front of me, forcing me to stop, and asked me where I was going. I replied "That is none of your business. This is a public street". Yes, I wanted to spew a few choice words but the survival instinct says I don't want to be shot or arrested. I could have said I'm going to Mary Smith's house, and my DC is visiting because they are friends, and I don't live out here but what a lovely neighborhood this is and you are so diligent for guarding it from people like me and would you like to see my ID to make sure I'm not a criminal?

Instead, I drove around them (with them following me) and a couple of blocks later pulled into the driveway of our friend's house with security blocking my car. My friend came out of her house thinking I might be hurt or something disastrous had happened. When I explained what was going on, she was absolutely mortified and embarrassed giving security a very strong piece of her mind and herself using a few well-deserved choice words. The difference is that while I was restrained from speaking my mind because of misplaced consequences, my white friend had no reservations about speaking her mind and damn any consequences. This is conditioning on both our parts, and I tell this story to corroborate what some AA posters have spoken about the survival instinct.

I think your post is well-meaning, truly. But I think you minimize the impact of racism (and yes, it's an ugly word but it's impact is even worse). The PP's comment about the clutching purses most definitely adds to the discussion in a positive way. If you don't understand where we have been, then you won't understand why.

Sadly, this discrimination cuts both ways. My mother was bullied and forced out of her job because she was white at a predominantly black university. She was not the only white professor that experienced horrid discrimination there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Almost every bright BLACK male I know that attended Sidwell from K -12 either developed mental health issues, became an underachiever or is still finding themselves. The boys try really hard to fit in rather than adopting a "I don't care; I'm going to get my education in spite of you" attitude. When they don't fit in they more often act out leading to discipline issues or they become someone that you don't want you DS to be. I'm not talking about talking or acting white. You generally won't pick up on this until they are in college or later. By then they have molded their identity and it is too late. Think Clarence Thomas as an outspoken example.

NO OTHER INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS>>HUH

JUST SIDWELL

Every year at application time people raise the issue of AA boys at Sidwell. I do wonder sometimes if people do this to scare away competition. If you are concerned, ask around and talk to current black families at the school you are interested in. It can be hard for kids to feel different on account of having less money or looking different or worshiping differently than the majority cohort. It is also hard to succeed in the U.S. economy without good education.

If you feel your child can get a strong education in his/her majority environment and worry about the real issues with acculturating to an institution during adolescence as a member of a minority group (whether income, race, religion), give private schools a pass. If you feel the education is much better than your public/charter option, keep investigating and try to keep an open mind. You might find the concerns on this board are very overblown (our experience as FA family non-majority religion), or you might have enough doubts about the social/cultural piece to outweigh the better education.