Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
If how you described yourself is autism, then that tent is pretty big.
Exactly. The reason why scientists have basically have had to create new autism categories is to fix the overly broad diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 and clinical practice. If you don’t filter out the adults who are normal in all ways except some social quirks then you cannot do any sort of meaningful research.
I’m not disagreeing with you and fully acknowledge that those currently classified as levels 2 and 3 need far more support. At the same time this comment comes off as incredibly dismissive that high functioning autistics don’t benefit from a diagnosis. We do. I’m working through a lot now that I have a diagnosis that is helping me understand my childhood and who I am that I wouldn’t be able to do without the clarity around how my mind works. Don’t dismiss my experience I won’t dismiss yours or your child’s
You could understand your mind without a diagnosis so broad as to be understood by many to be meaningless.
Who literally thinks it's "meaningless"? Many autistic people and their families can tell you the diagnosis has been very meaningful to them and helped them get the support they need.
The problem is that many adults are insisting on an autism diagnosis because it has some kind of identity benefits/secondary gain, when their actual issues are not autism.
Yeah it's more palatable to be "high functioning autistic adult" than "person with few friends who isn't particularly likable" (me).
lol. The other thing is that there are autism characteristics that are subclinical but people want a diagnosis to get the secondary benefits of it. At the end of the day, autism seems like one of the few things where it has to be an all-encompassing identity instead of just being a condition you have. Like I have legit generalized anxiety but I don’t call myself “an anxious” or seek to see everything through that lens. instead I try to cope with it (and take medication that helps it go away).
Anxiety is a treatable condition. You can provide supports for autism but you can't make an autistic person not autistic (though a small percentage of autistic kids go on to not qualify for the diagnosis as adults)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I will always be predisposed to anxiety and medication is only so effective. It’s genetic and I have passed it down to my kid. But nobody is telling me that being “an anxious” is my immutable self.
Because you can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. Autistic people don't stop being impacted by their autism because they have supports.
That’s not true at all. I wish it could disappear but I will always have it and it corresponds to a certain way my brain interprets events (and sometimes just spontaneously generates). As we start diagnosing more and more very mild cases of autism it absolutely becomes something more like a personality or way of being in the world. But people want to make it their whole identity.
Everyone worries, what matters is how you respond to it. Worries that don't limit your life are not anxiety.
Of course. Not sure what your point is.
You're conflating worries with anxiety. You can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. It is not impairing you. An autistic person will always have some level of impairment.
Really? Because a lot of people got through life and only found out they had autism when their child got diagnosed. Was the parent really “impaired” if they didn’t even know? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have som issue or another. The term neurodivergent is becoming completely meaningless. Neuro diverse compared to what? Who exactly is the baseline not diverse?
The vast majority of people do not have autism or suspect it in themselves.
I have a child with confirmed autism.
I don't know if I would qualify for a diagnosis but I can point to several ways in which the way my brain works limits my life in meaningful ways.
Just because a disability is not visible to you as an outsider does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe not autism but they may be alcoholics, have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, depression, and a host of other issues. Is that who we are comparing the neuro diverse to? Seems like they all belong under the same neurodivergent umbrella so that there are more people under the umbrella than not.
No, substance use disorders, depression, anxiety are not considered "neurodivergence" which is itself not a clinical term in the DSM.
But we’re talking about a limited life. Who decided that’s the qualifier?
Those conditions are treatable. Of course, they can be disabling if untreated or ineffectively treated.
So, a lot like autism?
No. See above.
You’re not doing a very good job here. A limited life? Invisible impairment? Untreatable conditions? It’s like arguing the science is settled with some thing constantly evolving and clearly not settled.
I'm not arguing the science is settled. I'm sorry you don't think I'm doing a good job explaining things to you. Maybe you should ask someone else as I clearly can't help you.
We’re back at the beginning. Can’t really describe autism and certainly no two people with autism can be alike, but it’s a coveted identity to explain a limited life, lest we have to consider other factors.
And don’t forget that it can be masked so thoroughly as to be invisible to all and not impact your life at all.
Even if you don’t see the impact, if the person says it’s impacting them, it’s impacting them… it’s incredibly draining to mask all day and it leads to meltdowns.
Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
If how you described yourself is autism, then that tent is pretty big.
Exactly. The reason why scientists have basically have had to create new autism categories is to fix the overly broad diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 and clinical practice. If you don’t filter out the adults who are normal in all ways except some social quirks then you cannot do any sort of meaningful research.
I’m not disagreeing with you and fully acknowledge that those currently classified as levels 2 and 3 need far more support. At the same time this comment comes off as incredibly dismissive that high functioning autistics don’t benefit from a diagnosis. We do. I’m working through a lot now that I have a diagnosis that is helping me understand my childhood and who I am that I wouldn’t be able to do without the clarity around how my mind works. Don’t dismiss my experience I won’t dismiss yours or your child’s
You could understand your mind without a diagnosis so broad as to be understood by many to be meaningless.
Who literally thinks it's "meaningless"? Many autistic people and their families can tell you the diagnosis has been very meaningful to them and helped them get the support they need.
The problem is that many adults are insisting on an autism diagnosis because it has some kind of identity benefits/secondary gain, when their actual issues are not autism.
Yeah it's more palatable to be "high functioning autistic adult" than "person with few friends who isn't particularly likable" (me).
lol. The other thing is that there are autism characteristics that are subclinical but people want a diagnosis to get the secondary benefits of it. At the end of the day, autism seems like one of the few things where it has to be an all-encompassing identity instead of just being a condition you have. Like I have legit generalized anxiety but I don’t call myself “an anxious” or seek to see everything through that lens. instead I try to cope with it (and take medication that helps it go away).
Anxiety is a treatable condition. You can provide supports for autism but you can't make an autistic person not autistic (though a small percentage of autistic kids go on to not qualify for the diagnosis as adults)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I will always be predisposed to anxiety and medication is only so effective. It’s genetic and I have passed it down to my kid. But nobody is telling me that being “an anxious” is my immutable self.
Because you can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. Autistic people don't stop being impacted by their autism because they have supports.
That’s not true at all. I wish it could disappear but I will always have it and it corresponds to a certain way my brain interprets events (and sometimes just spontaneously generates). As we start diagnosing more and more very mild cases of autism it absolutely becomes something more like a personality or way of being in the world. But people want to make it their whole identity.
Everyone worries, what matters is how you respond to it. Worries that don't limit your life are not anxiety.
Of course. Not sure what your point is.
You're conflating worries with anxiety. You can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. It is not impairing you. An autistic person will always have some level of impairment.
Really? Because a lot of people got through life and only found out they had autism when their child got diagnosed. Was the parent really “impaired” if they didn’t even know? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have som issue or another. The term neurodivergent is becoming completely meaningless. Neuro diverse compared to what? Who exactly is the baseline not diverse?
The vast majority of people do not have autism or suspect it in themselves.
I have a child with confirmed autism.
I don't know if I would qualify for a diagnosis but I can point to several ways in which the way my brain works limits my life in meaningful ways.
Just because a disability is not visible to you as an outsider does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe not autism but they may be alcoholics, have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, depression, and a host of other issues. Is that who we are comparing the neuro diverse to? Seems like they all belong under the same neurodivergent umbrella so that there are more people under the umbrella than not.
No, substance use disorders, depression, anxiety are not considered "neurodivergence" which is itself not a clinical term in the DSM.
But we’re talking about a limited life. Who decided that’s the qualifier?
Those conditions are treatable. Of course, they can be disabling if untreated or ineffectively treated.
So, a lot like autism?
No. See above.
You’re not doing a very good job here. A limited life? Invisible impairment? Untreatable conditions? It’s like arguing the science is settled with some thing constantly evolving and clearly not settled.
I'm not arguing the science is settled. I'm sorry you don't think I'm doing a good job explaining things to you. Maybe you should ask someone else as I clearly can't help you.
OP of this thread but not the PP you’re arguing with here —
My question is why are you concerned if someone is diagnosed (not just self diagnosed, but confirmed with a professional) as autistic and finds value in that diagnosis with them having that diagnosis? How is it affecting you? Just because you don’t see the limitations doesn’t mean they aren’t there….
You're confusing me with someone else..I don't believe nor have I stated the things you are claiming I have.
It seems like the tenor of the comments here though is that because of the broad nature of the current DSM, autism is being over diagnosed and “functional” adults (whatever that means) shouldn’t be diagnosed as such. Am I misinterpreting?
I suggest you respond to the comments you are referencing. I do not believe what you wrote above neither have I stated that here.
Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
If how you described yourself is autism, then that tent is pretty big.
Exactly. The reason why scientists have basically have had to create new autism categories is to fix the overly broad diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 and clinical practice. If you don’t filter out the adults who are normal in all ways except some social quirks then you cannot do any sort of meaningful research.
I’m not disagreeing with you and fully acknowledge that those currently classified as levels 2 and 3 need far more support. At the same time this comment comes off as incredibly dismissive that high functioning autistics don’t benefit from a diagnosis. We do. I’m working through a lot now that I have a diagnosis that is helping me understand my childhood and who I am that I wouldn’t be able to do without the clarity around how my mind works. Don’t dismiss my experience I won’t dismiss yours or your child’s
You could understand your mind without a diagnosis so broad as to be understood by many to be meaningless.
Who literally thinks it's "meaningless"? Many autistic people and their families can tell you the diagnosis has been very meaningful to them and helped them get the support they need.
The problem is that many adults are insisting on an autism diagnosis because it has some kind of identity benefits/secondary gain, when their actual issues are not autism.
Yeah it's more palatable to be "high functioning autistic adult" than "person with few friends who isn't particularly likable" (me).
lol. The other thing is that there are autism characteristics that are subclinical but people want a diagnosis to get the secondary benefits of it. At the end of the day, autism seems like one of the few things where it has to be an all-encompassing identity instead of just being a condition you have. Like I have legit generalized anxiety but I don’t call myself “an anxious” or seek to see everything through that lens. instead I try to cope with it (and take medication that helps it go away).
Anxiety is a treatable condition. You can provide supports for autism but you can't make an autistic person not autistic (though a small percentage of autistic kids go on to not qualify for the diagnosis as adults)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I will always be predisposed to anxiety and medication is only so effective. It’s genetic and I have passed it down to my kid. But nobody is telling me that being “an anxious” is my immutable self.
Because you can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. Autistic people don't stop being impacted by their autism because they have supports.
That’s not true at all. I wish it could disappear but I will always have it and it corresponds to a certain way my brain interprets events (and sometimes just spontaneously generates). As we start diagnosing more and more very mild cases of autism it absolutely becomes something more like a personality or way of being in the world. But people want to make it their whole identity.
Everyone worries, what matters is how you respond to it. Worries that don't limit your life are not anxiety.
Of course. Not sure what your point is.
You're conflating worries with anxiety. You can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. It is not impairing you. An autistic person will always have some level of impairment.
Really? Because a lot of people got through life and only found out they had autism when their child got diagnosed. Was the parent really “impaired” if they didn’t even know? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have som issue or another. The term neurodivergent is becoming completely meaningless. Neuro diverse compared to what? Who exactly is the baseline not diverse?
The vast majority of people do not have autism or suspect it in themselves.
I have a child with confirmed autism.
I don't know if I would qualify for a diagnosis but I can point to several ways in which the way my brain works limits my life in meaningful ways.
Just because a disability is not visible to you as an outsider does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe not autism but they may be alcoholics, have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, depression, and a host of other issues. Is that who we are comparing the neuro diverse to? Seems like they all belong under the same neurodivergent umbrella so that there are more people under the umbrella than not.
No, substance use disorders, depression, anxiety are not considered "neurodivergence" which is itself not a clinical term in the DSM.
But we’re talking about a limited life. Who decided that’s the qualifier?
Those conditions are treatable. Of course, they can be disabling if untreated or ineffectively treated.
So, a lot like autism?
No. See above.
You’re not doing a very good job here. A limited life? Invisible impairment? Untreatable conditions? It’s like arguing the science is settled with some thing constantly evolving and clearly not settled.
I'm not arguing the science is settled. I'm sorry you don't think I'm doing a good job explaining things to you. Maybe you should ask someone else as I clearly can't help you.
OP of this thread but not the PP you’re arguing with here —
My question is why are you concerned if someone is diagnosed (not just self diagnosed, but confirmed with a professional) as autistic and finds value in that diagnosis with them having that diagnosis? How is it affecting you? Just because you don’t see the limitations doesn’t mean they aren’t there….
You're confusing me with someone else..I don't believe nor have I stated the things you are claiming I have.
It seems like the tenor of the comments here though is that because of the broad nature of the current DSM, autism is being over diagnosed and “functional” adults (whatever that means) shouldn’t be diagnosed as such. Am I misinterpreting?
I think that pp is the one saying that anxiety is definitely not like autism, for unclear reasons, and is gatekeeping who is allowed under the tent of autism. If it’s treatable, it’s not autism. So why are we treating autism?
PP believes that autism cannot be treated and should just be accepted and that any coping skills are “masking” which is bad.
This is why many in the psychiatry and psych community observe that the current trend is for people to insist they have a “better” diagnosis like autism (nothing to be done, it is an identity that others must accept!) or adhd (stimulants!) instead of actually learning what they do have - anxiety, depression, BPD, smoke too much weed, trying to fit themselves into a lifestyle that doesn’t work for them).
Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
If how you described yourself is autism, then that tent is pretty big.
Exactly. The reason why scientists have basically have had to create new autism categories is to fix the overly broad diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 and clinical practice. If you don’t filter out the adults who are normal in all ways except some social quirks then you cannot do any sort of meaningful research.
I’m not disagreeing with you and fully acknowledge that those currently classified as levels 2 and 3 need far more support. At the same time this comment comes off as incredibly dismissive that high functioning autistics don’t benefit from a diagnosis. We do. I’m working through a lot now that I have a diagnosis that is helping me understand my childhood and who I am that I wouldn’t be able to do without the clarity around how my mind works. Don’t dismiss my experience I won’t dismiss yours or your child’s
You could understand your mind without a diagnosis so broad as to be understood by many to be meaningless.
Who literally thinks it's "meaningless"? Many autistic people and their families can tell you the diagnosis has been very meaningful to them and helped them get the support they need.
The problem is that many adults are insisting on an autism diagnosis because it has some kind of identity benefits/secondary gain, when their actual issues are not autism.
Yeah it's more palatable to be "high functioning autistic adult" than "person with few friends who isn't particularly likable" (me).
lol. The other thing is that there are autism characteristics that are subclinical but people want a diagnosis to get the secondary benefits of it. At the end of the day, autism seems like one of the few things where it has to be an all-encompassing identity instead of just being a condition you have. Like I have legit generalized anxiety but I don’t call myself “an anxious” or seek to see everything through that lens. instead I try to cope with it (and take medication that helps it go away).
Anxiety is a treatable condition. You can provide supports for autism but you can't make an autistic person not autistic (though a small percentage of autistic kids go on to not qualify for the diagnosis as adults)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I will always be predisposed to anxiety and medication is only so effective. It’s genetic and I have passed it down to my kid. But nobody is telling me that being “an anxious” is my immutable self.
Because you can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. Autistic people don't stop being impacted by their autism because they have supports.
That’s not true at all. I wish it could disappear but I will always have it and it corresponds to a certain way my brain interprets events (and sometimes just spontaneously generates). As we start diagnosing more and more very mild cases of autism it absolutely becomes something more like a personality or way of being in the world. But people want to make it their whole identity.
Everyone worries, what matters is how you respond to it. Worries that don't limit your life are not anxiety.
Of course. Not sure what your point is.
You're conflating worries with anxiety. You can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. It is not impairing you. An autistic person will always have some level of impairment.
Really? Because a lot of people got through life and only found out they had autism when their child got diagnosed. Was the parent really “impaired” if they didn’t even know? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have som issue or another. The term neurodivergent is becoming completely meaningless. Neuro diverse compared to what? Who exactly is the baseline not diverse?
The vast majority of people do not have autism or suspect it in themselves.
I have a child with confirmed autism.
I don't know if I would qualify for a diagnosis but I can point to several ways in which the way my brain works limits my life in meaningful ways.
Just because a disability is not visible to you as an outsider does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe not autism but they may be alcoholics, have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, depression, and a host of other issues. Is that who we are comparing the neuro diverse to? Seems like they all belong under the same neurodivergent umbrella so that there are more people under the umbrella than not.
No, substance use disorders, depression, anxiety are not considered "neurodivergence" which is itself not a clinical term in the DSM.
But we’re talking about a limited life. Who decided that’s the qualifier?
Those conditions are treatable. Of course, they can be disabling if untreated or ineffectively treated.
So, a lot like autism?
No. See above.
You’re not doing a very good job here. A limited life? Invisible impairment? Untreatable conditions? It’s like arguing the science is settled with some thing constantly evolving and clearly not settled.
I'm not arguing the science is settled. I'm sorry you don't think I'm doing a good job explaining things to you. Maybe you should ask someone else as I clearly can't help you.
We’re back at the beginning. Can’t really describe autism and certainly no two people with autism can be alike, but it’s a coveted identity to explain a limited life, lest we have to consider other factors.
And don’t forget that it can be masked so thoroughly as to be invisible to all and not impact your life at all.
Even if you don’t see the impact, if the person says it’s impacting them, it’s impacting them… it’s incredibly draining to mask all day and it leads to meltdowns.
I feel incredibly drained at the end of the day too!
Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
If how you described yourself is autism, then that tent is pretty big.
Exactly. The reason why scientists have basically have had to create new autism categories is to fix the overly broad diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 and clinical practice. If you don’t filter out the adults who are normal in all ways except some social quirks then you cannot do any sort of meaningful research.
I’m not disagreeing with you and fully acknowledge that those currently classified as levels 2 and 3 need far more support. At the same time this comment comes off as incredibly dismissive that high functioning autistics don’t benefit from a diagnosis. We do. I’m working through a lot now that I have a diagnosis that is helping me understand my childhood and who I am that I wouldn’t be able to do without the clarity around how my mind works. Don’t dismiss my experience I won’t dismiss yours or your child’s
You could understand your mind without a diagnosis so broad as to be understood by many to be meaningless.
Who literally thinks it's "meaningless"? Many autistic people and their families can tell you the diagnosis has been very meaningful to them and helped them get the support they need.
The problem is that many adults are insisting on an autism diagnosis because it has some kind of identity benefits/secondary gain, when their actual issues are not autism.
Yeah it's more palatable to be "high functioning autistic adult" than "person with few friends who isn't particularly likable" (me).
lol. The other thing is that there are autism characteristics that are subclinical but people want a diagnosis to get the secondary benefits of it. At the end of the day, autism seems like one of the few things where it has to be an all-encompassing identity instead of just being a condition you have. Like I have legit generalized anxiety but I don’t call myself “an anxious” or seek to see everything through that lens. instead I try to cope with it (and take medication that helps it go away).
Anxiety is a treatable condition. You can provide supports for autism but you can't make an autistic person not autistic (though a small percentage of autistic kids go on to not qualify for the diagnosis as adults)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I will always be predisposed to anxiety and medication is only so effective. It’s genetic and I have passed it down to my kid. But nobody is telling me that being “an anxious” is my immutable self.
Because you can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. Autistic people don't stop being impacted by their autism because they have supports.
That’s not true at all. I wish it could disappear but I will always have it and it corresponds to a certain way my brain interprets events (and sometimes just spontaneously generates). As we start diagnosing more and more very mild cases of autism it absolutely becomes something more like a personality or way of being in the world. But people want to make it their whole identity.
Everyone worries, what matters is how you respond to it. Worries that don't limit your life are not anxiety.
Of course. Not sure what your point is.
You're conflating worries with anxiety. You can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. It is not impairing you. An autistic person will always have some level of impairment.
Really? Because a lot of people got through life and only found out they had autism when their child got diagnosed. Was the parent really “impaired” if they didn’t even know? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have som issue or another. The term neurodivergent is becoming completely meaningless. Neuro diverse compared to what? Who exactly is the baseline not diverse?
The vast majority of people do not have autism or suspect it in themselves.
I have a child with confirmed autism.
I don't know if I would qualify for a diagnosis but I can point to several ways in which the way my brain works limits my life in meaningful ways.
Just because a disability is not visible to you as an outsider does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe not autism but they may be alcoholics, have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, depression, and a host of other issues. Is that who we are comparing the neuro diverse to? Seems like they all belong under the same neurodivergent umbrella so that there are more people under the umbrella than not.
No, substance use disorders, depression, anxiety are not considered "neurodivergence" which is itself not a clinical term in the DSM.
But we’re talking about a limited life. Who decided that’s the qualifier?
Those conditions are treatable. Of course, they can be disabling if untreated or ineffectively treated.
So, a lot like autism?
No. See above.
You’re not doing a very good job here. A limited life? Invisible impairment? Untreatable conditions? It’s like arguing the science is settled with some thing constantly evolving and clearly not settled.
I'm not arguing the science is settled. I'm sorry you don't think I'm doing a good job explaining things to you. Maybe you should ask someone else as I clearly can't help you.
OP of this thread but not the PP you’re arguing with here —
My question is why are you concerned if someone is diagnosed (not just self diagnosed, but confirmed with a professional) as autistic and finds value in that diagnosis with them having that diagnosis? How is it affecting you? Just because you don’t see the limitations doesn’t mean they aren’t there….
You're confusing me with someone else..I don't believe nor have I stated the things you are claiming I have.
It seems like the tenor of the comments here though is that because of the broad nature of the current DSM, autism is being over diagnosed and “functional” adults (whatever that means) shouldn’t be diagnosed as such. Am I misinterpreting?
I think that pp is the one saying that anxiety is definitely not like autism, for unclear reasons, and is gatekeeping who is allowed under the tent of autism. If it’s treatable, it’s not autism. So why are we treating autism?
PP believes that autism cannot be treated and should just be accepted and that any coping skills are “masking” which is bad.
This is why many in the psychiatry and psych community observe that the current trend is for people to insist they have a “better” diagnosis like autism (nothing to be done, it is an identity that others must accept!) or adhd (stimulants!) instead of actually learning what they do have - anxiety, depression, BPD, smoke too much weed, trying to fit themselves into a lifestyle that doesn’t work for them).
You feel the need to ascribe to other people things they did not say. Why? Just quote what you disagree with and explain how you disagree.
Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
If how you described yourself is autism, then that tent is pretty big.
Exactly. The reason why scientists have basically have had to create new autism categories is to fix the overly broad diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 and clinical practice. If you don’t filter out the adults who are normal in all ways except some social quirks then you cannot do any sort of meaningful research.
I’m not disagreeing with you and fully acknowledge that those currently classified as levels 2 and 3 need far more support. At the same time this comment comes off as incredibly dismissive that high functioning autistics don’t benefit from a diagnosis. We do. I’m working through a lot now that I have a diagnosis that is helping me understand my childhood and who I am that I wouldn’t be able to do without the clarity around how my mind works. Don’t dismiss my experience I won’t dismiss yours or your child’s
You could understand your mind without a diagnosis so broad as to be understood by many to be meaningless.
Who literally thinks it's "meaningless"? Many autistic people and their families can tell you the diagnosis has been very meaningful to them and helped them get the support they need.
The problem is that many adults are insisting on an autism diagnosis because it has some kind of identity benefits/secondary gain, when their actual issues are not autism.
Yeah it's more palatable to be "high functioning autistic adult" than "person with few friends who isn't particularly likable" (me).
lol. The other thing is that there are autism characteristics that are subclinical but people want a diagnosis to get the secondary benefits of it. At the end of the day, autism seems like one of the few things where it has to be an all-encompassing identity instead of just being a condition you have. Like I have legit generalized anxiety but I don’t call myself “an anxious” or seek to see everything through that lens. instead I try to cope with it (and take medication that helps it go away).
Anxiety is a treatable condition. You can provide supports for autism but you can't make an autistic person not autistic (though a small percentage of autistic kids go on to not qualify for the diagnosis as adults)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I will always be predisposed to anxiety and medication is only so effective. It’s genetic and I have passed it down to my kid. But nobody is telling me that being “an anxious” is my immutable self.
Because you can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. Autistic people don't stop being impacted by their autism because they have supports.
That’s not true at all. I wish it could disappear but I will always have it and it corresponds to a certain way my brain interprets events (and sometimes just spontaneously generates). As we start diagnosing more and more very mild cases of autism it absolutely becomes something more like a personality or way of being in the world. But people want to make it their whole identity.
Everyone worries, what matters is how you respond to it. Worries that don't limit your life are not anxiety.
Of course. Not sure what your point is.
You're conflating worries with anxiety. You can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. It is not impairing you. An autistic person will always have some level of impairment.
Really? Because a lot of people got through life and only found out they had autism when their child got diagnosed. Was the parent really “impaired” if they didn’t even know? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have som issue or another. The term neurodivergent is becoming completely meaningless. Neuro diverse compared to what? Who exactly is the baseline not diverse?
The vast majority of people do not have autism or suspect it in themselves.
I have a child with confirmed autism.
I don't know if I would qualify for a diagnosis but I can point to several ways in which the way my brain works limits my life in meaningful ways.
Just because a disability is not visible to you as an outsider does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe not autism but they may be alcoholics, have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, depression, and a host of other issues. Is that who we are comparing the neuro diverse to? Seems like they all belong under the same neurodivergent umbrella so that there are more people under the umbrella than not.
No, substance use disorders, depression, anxiety are not considered "neurodivergence" which is itself not a clinical term in the DSM.
But we’re talking about a limited life. Who decided that’s the qualifier?
Those conditions are treatable. Of course, they can be disabling if untreated or ineffectively treated.
So, a lot like autism?
No. See above.
You’re not doing a very good job here. A limited life? Invisible impairment? Untreatable conditions? It’s like arguing the science is settled with some thing constantly evolving and clearly not settled.
I'm not arguing the science is settled. I'm sorry you don't think I'm doing a good job explaining things to you. Maybe you should ask someone else as I clearly can't help you.
We’re back at the beginning. Can’t really describe autism and certainly no two people with autism can be alike, but it’s a coveted identity to explain a limited life, lest we have to consider other factors.
And don’t forget that it can be masked so thoroughly as to be invisible to all and not impact your life at all.
Even if you don’t see the impact, if the person says it’s impacting them, it’s impacting them… it’s incredibly draining to mask all day and it leads to meltdowns.
I feel incredibly drained at the end of the day too!
Ok and? Is this meant to say that because you’ve experienced something similar, my experience shouldn’t count?
Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
If how you described yourself is autism, then that tent is pretty big.
Exactly. The reason why scientists have basically have had to create new autism categories is to fix the overly broad diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 and clinical practice. If you don’t filter out the adults who are normal in all ways except some social quirks then you cannot do any sort of meaningful research.
I’m not disagreeing with you and fully acknowledge that those currently classified as levels 2 and 3 need far more support. At the same time this comment comes off as incredibly dismissive that high functioning autistics don’t benefit from a diagnosis. We do. I’m working through a lot now that I have a diagnosis that is helping me understand my childhood and who I am that I wouldn’t be able to do without the clarity around how my mind works. Don’t dismiss my experience I won’t dismiss yours or your child’s
You could understand your mind without a diagnosis so broad as to be understood by many to be meaningless.
Who literally thinks it's "meaningless"? Many autistic people and their families can tell you the diagnosis has been very meaningful to them and helped them get the support they need.
The problem is that many adults are insisting on an autism diagnosis because it has some kind of identity benefits/secondary gain, when their actual issues are not autism.
Yeah it's more palatable to be "high functioning autistic adult" than "person with few friends who isn't particularly likable" (me).
lol. The other thing is that there are autism characteristics that are subclinical but people want a diagnosis to get the secondary benefits of it. At the end of the day, autism seems like one of the few things where it has to be an all-encompassing identity instead of just being a condition you have. Like I have legit generalized anxiety but I don’t call myself “an anxious” or seek to see everything through that lens. instead I try to cope with it (and take medication that helps it go away).
Anxiety is a treatable condition. You can provide supports for autism but you can't make an autistic person not autistic (though a small percentage of autistic kids go on to not qualify for the diagnosis as adults)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I will always be predisposed to anxiety and medication is only so effective. It’s genetic and I have passed it down to my kid. But nobody is telling me that being “an anxious” is my immutable self.
Because you can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. Autistic people don't stop being impacted by their autism because they have supports.
That’s not true at all. I wish it could disappear but I will always have it and it corresponds to a certain way my brain interprets events (and sometimes just spontaneously generates). As we start diagnosing more and more very mild cases of autism it absolutely becomes something more like a personality or way of being in the world. But people want to make it their whole identity.
Everyone worries, what matters is how you respond to it. Worries that don't limit your life are not anxiety.
Of course. Not sure what your point is.
You're conflating worries with anxiety. You can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. It is not impairing you. An autistic person will always have some level of impairment.
Really? Because a lot of people got through life and only found out they had autism when their child got diagnosed. Was the parent really “impaired” if they didn’t even know? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have som issue or another. The term neurodivergent is becoming completely meaningless. Neuro diverse compared to what? Who exactly is the baseline not diverse?
The vast majority of people do not have autism or suspect it in themselves.
I have a child with confirmed autism.
I don't know if I would qualify for a diagnosis but I can point to several ways in which the way my brain works limits my life in meaningful ways.
Just because a disability is not visible to you as an outsider does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe not autism but they may be alcoholics, have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, depression, and a host of other issues. Is that who we are comparing the neuro diverse to? Seems like they all belong under the same neurodivergent umbrella so that there are more people under the umbrella than not.
No, substance use disorders, depression, anxiety are not considered "neurodivergence" which is itself not a clinical term in the DSM.
But we’re talking about a limited life. Who decided that’s the qualifier?
Those conditions are treatable. Of course, they can be disabling if untreated or ineffectively treated.
So, a lot like autism?
No. See above.
You’re not doing a very good job here. A limited life? Invisible impairment? Untreatable conditions? It’s like arguing the science is settled with some thing constantly evolving and clearly not settled.
I'm not arguing the science is settled. I'm sorry you don't think I'm doing a good job explaining things to you. Maybe you should ask someone else as I clearly can't help you.
We’re back at the beginning. Can’t really describe autism and certainly no two people with autism can be alike, but it’s a coveted identity to explain a limited life, lest we have to consider other factors.
And don’t forget that it can be masked so thoroughly as to be invisible to all and not impact your life at all.
Even if you don’t see the impact, if the person says it’s impacting them, it’s impacting them… it’s incredibly draining to mask all day and it leads to meltdowns.
I feel incredibly drained at the end of the day too!
Ok and? Is this meant to say that because you’ve experienced something similar, my experience shouldn’t count?
I mean to say, claiming that common life experiences are “neurodivergence” is annoying.
Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
It’s been hard to figure out because she does understand social cues & has a good sense of empathy, but I recently watched a video of a kindergarten performance, and she seemed really anxious and looked out of place. She was fidgeting, putting her fingers in her mouth, moving & looking around. She’s always had just one close friend, and that friend's friends were more like acquaintances to her (not really). The friend she’s comfortable with is usually very similar to her. She also has a tough time with change, like the end of the year is always difficult for her because it signals the start of a new one. In terms of independence, she is capable of driving and working, but she feels too young for that level of freedom, if that makes any sense.
This sounds exactly like DS. We’ve wondered if he could be on the spectrum too but there different neuro psych evaluations (ages 5, 10 and 17) found him to have ADHD and anxiety, which can present similarly to autism. From what I understand, the biggest difference and why DS didn’t get an autism diagnosis is he understands reciprocal behavior (a friendship is one where both parties give and take), can read social clues and understand sarcasm and shows empathy.
I’m PP.
We’ll be getting her evaluated soon but I’m wondering whether the social components were the main reason why your son wasn’t deemed autistic?
Everything else ticked the box?
Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
If how you described yourself is autism, then that tent is pretty big.
Exactly. The reason why scientists have basically have had to create new autism categories is to fix the overly broad diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 and clinical practice. If you don’t filter out the adults who are normal in all ways except some social quirks then you cannot do any sort of meaningful research.
I’m not disagreeing with you and fully acknowledge that those currently classified as levels 2 and 3 need far more support. At the same time this comment comes off as incredibly dismissive that high functioning autistics don’t benefit from a diagnosis. We do. I’m working through a lot now that I have a diagnosis that is helping me understand my childhood and who I am that I wouldn’t be able to do without the clarity around how my mind works. Don’t dismiss my experience I won’t dismiss yours or your child’s
You could understand your mind without a diagnosis so broad as to be understood by many to be meaningless.
Who literally thinks it's "meaningless"? Many autistic people and their families can tell you the diagnosis has been very meaningful to them and helped them get the support they need.
The problem is that many adults are insisting on an autism diagnosis because it has some kind of identity benefits/secondary gain, when their actual issues are not autism.
Yeah it's more palatable to be "high functioning autistic adult" than "person with few friends who isn't particularly likable" (me).
lol. The other thing is that there are autism characteristics that are subclinical but people want a diagnosis to get the secondary benefits of it. At the end of the day, autism seems like one of the few things where it has to be an all-encompassing identity instead of just being a condition you have. Like I have legit generalized anxiety but I don’t call myself “an anxious” or seek to see everything through that lens. instead I try to cope with it (and take medication that helps it go away).
Anxiety is a treatable condition. You can provide supports for autism but you can't make an autistic person not autistic (though a small percentage of autistic kids go on to not qualify for the diagnosis as adults)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I will always be predisposed to anxiety and medication is only so effective. It’s genetic and I have passed it down to my kid. But nobody is telling me that being “an anxious” is my immutable self.
Because you can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. Autistic people don't stop being impacted by their autism because they have supports.
That’s not true at all. I wish it could disappear but I will always have it and it corresponds to a certain way my brain interprets events (and sometimes just spontaneously generates). As we start diagnosing more and more very mild cases of autism it absolutely becomes something more like a personality or way of being in the world. But people want to make it their whole identity.
Everyone worries, what matters is how you respond to it. Worries that don't limit your life are not anxiety.
Of course. Not sure what your point is.
You're conflating worries with anxiety. You can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. It is not impairing you. An autistic person will always have some level of impairment.
Really? Because a lot of people got through life and only found out they had autism when their child got diagnosed. Was the parent really “impaired” if they didn’t even know? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have som issue or another. The term neurodivergent is becoming completely meaningless. Neuro diverse compared to what? Who exactly is the baseline not diverse?
The vast majority of people do not have autism or suspect it in themselves.
I have a child with confirmed autism.
I don't know if I would qualify for a diagnosis but I can point to several ways in which the way my brain works limits my life in meaningful ways.
Just because a disability is not visible to you as an outsider does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe not autism but they may be alcoholics, have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, depression, and a host of other issues. Is that who we are comparing the neuro diverse to? Seems like they all belong under the same neurodivergent umbrella so that there are more people under the umbrella than not.
No, substance use disorders, depression, anxiety are not considered "neurodivergence" which is itself not a clinical term in the DSM.
But we’re talking about a limited life. Who decided that’s the qualifier?
Those conditions are treatable. Of course, they can be disabling if untreated or ineffectively treated.
So, a lot like autism?
No. See above.
You’re not doing a very good job here. A limited life? Invisible impairment? Untreatable conditions? It’s like arguing the science is settled with some thing constantly evolving and clearly not settled.
I'm not arguing the science is settled. I'm sorry you don't think I'm doing a good job explaining things to you. Maybe you should ask someone else as I clearly can't help you.
We’re back at the beginning. Can’t really describe autism and certainly no two people with autism can be alike, but it’s a coveted identity to explain a limited life, lest we have to consider other factors.
And don’t forget that it can be masked so thoroughly as to be invisible to all and not impact your life at all.
Even if you don’t see the impact, if the person says it’s impacting them, it’s impacting them… it’s incredibly draining to mask all day and it leads to meltdowns.
I feel incredibly drained at the end of the day too!
Ok and? Is this meant to say that because you’ve experienced something similar, my experience shouldn’t count?
I mean to say, claiming that common life experiences are “neurodivergence” is annoying.
Your experience and my experience are likely not the same. Just stop.
Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
If how you described yourself is autism, then that tent is pretty big.
Exactly. The reason why scientists have basically have had to create new autism categories is to fix the overly broad diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 and clinical practice. If you don’t filter out the adults who are normal in all ways except some social quirks then you cannot do any sort of meaningful research.
I’m not disagreeing with you and fully acknowledge that those currently classified as levels 2 and 3 need far more support. At the same time this comment comes off as incredibly dismissive that high functioning autistics don’t benefit from a diagnosis. We do. I’m working through a lot now that I have a diagnosis that is helping me understand my childhood and who I am that I wouldn’t be able to do without the clarity around how my mind works. Don’t dismiss my experience I won’t dismiss yours or your child’s
You could understand your mind without a diagnosis so broad as to be understood by many to be meaningless.
Who literally thinks it's "meaningless"? Many autistic people and their families can tell you the diagnosis has been very meaningful to them and helped them get the support they need.
The problem is that many adults are insisting on an autism diagnosis because it has some kind of identity benefits/secondary gain, when their actual issues are not autism.
Yeah it's more palatable to be "high functioning autistic adult" than "person with few friends who isn't particularly likable" (me).
lol. The other thing is that there are autism characteristics that are subclinical but people want a diagnosis to get the secondary benefits of it. At the end of the day, autism seems like one of the few things where it has to be an all-encompassing identity instead of just being a condition you have. Like I have legit generalized anxiety but I don’t call myself “an anxious” or seek to see everything through that lens. instead I try to cope with it (and take medication that helps it go away).
Anxiety is a treatable condition. You can provide supports for autism but you can't make an autistic person not autistic (though a small percentage of autistic kids go on to not qualify for the diagnosis as adults)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I will always be predisposed to anxiety and medication is only so effective. It’s genetic and I have passed it down to my kid. But nobody is telling me that being “an anxious” is my immutable self.
Because you can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. Autistic people don't stop being impacted by their autism because they have supports.
That’s not true at all. I wish it could disappear but I will always have it and it corresponds to a certain way my brain interprets events (and sometimes just spontaneously generates). As we start diagnosing more and more very mild cases of autism it absolutely becomes something more like a personality or way of being in the world. But people want to make it their whole identity.
Everyone worries, what matters is how you respond to it. Worries that don't limit your life are not anxiety.
Of course. Not sure what your point is.
You're conflating worries with anxiety. You can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. It is not impairing you. An autistic person will always have some level of impairment.
Really? Because a lot of people got through life and only found out they had autism when their child got diagnosed. Was the parent really “impaired” if they didn’t even know? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have som issue or another. The term neurodivergent is becoming completely meaningless. Neuro diverse compared to what? Who exactly is the baseline not diverse?
The vast majority of people do not have autism or suspect it in themselves.
I have a child with confirmed autism.
I don't know if I would qualify for a diagnosis but I can point to several ways in which the way my brain works limits my life in meaningful ways.
Just because a disability is not visible to you as an outsider does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe not autism but they may be alcoholics, have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, depression, and a host of other issues. Is that who we are comparing the neuro diverse to? Seems like they all belong under the same neurodivergent umbrella so that there are more people under the umbrella than not.
No, substance use disorders, depression, anxiety are not considered "neurodivergence" which is itself not a clinical term in the DSM.
But we’re talking about a limited life. Who decided that’s the qualifier?
Those conditions are treatable. Of course, they can be disabling if untreated or ineffectively treated.
So, a lot like autism?
No. See above.
You’re not doing a very good job here. A limited life? Invisible impairment? Untreatable conditions? It’s like arguing the science is settled with some thing constantly evolving and clearly not settled.
I'm not arguing the science is settled. I'm sorry you don't think I'm doing a good job explaining things to you. Maybe you should ask someone else as I clearly can't help you.
We’re back at the beginning. Can’t really describe autism and certainly no two people with autism can be alike, but it’s a coveted identity to explain a limited life, lest we have to consider other factors.
And don’t forget that it can be masked so thoroughly as to be invisible to all and not impact your life at all.
Even if you don’t see the impact, if the person says it’s impacting them, it’s impacting them… it’s incredibly draining to mask all day and it leads to meltdowns.
I feel incredibly drained at the end of the day too!
Ok and? Is this meant to say that because you’ve experienced something similar, my experience shouldn’t count?
I mean to say, claiming that common life experiences are “neurodivergence” is annoying.
Your experience and my experience are likely not the same. Just stop.
Then who are you to say your experience is just totally different because it can’t be treated unlike other conditions, which you clearly don’t have and have no experience with? If someone’s anxiety impacts them and diminishes their quality of life, what’s it to you? People with anxiety melt down too.
Anonymous wrote:The only people that seem to care are the parents of kids who have more difficult symptoms/experiences.
I’m not sure that’s quite true. I got diagnosed recently as an adult… I’m very high functioning (have a doctorate, high paying career, etc) but have struggled socially forever and sought a diagnosis after pretty much realizing it for myself a few years back. My mother refuse to accept I have autism because her vision of autism is the very high needs, low functioning type…
What symptoms did/do you have?
I’m asking because I believe my 18yo DD might be on the spectrum. She’s never really completely fit in with other girls her age. She’d try and like the same things but it wouldn’t come natural to her, at 13/14 when other girls were experimenting with makeup/fashion, she felt too young and wasn’t as interested, and now regularly says she still feels 12 and can’t imagine having the independence to do adult things like drive, work, etc.
I’m fiercely independent so not like your daughter in that way. I have always, always been perceived as weird by the people around me and was severely bullied pretty much my whole life. In high school I had a girl pretty much tell me to my face that she didn’t want me to come to a social gathering because I was weird. I never understood social cues and would end up trying to mimic things I saw on tv shows to try to fit in which just made me weirder. In my adult life I don’t have many friends. I am married (my husband is also neurodivergent and accepts my weirdness). I also get really easily frustrated at things. Oh and I never realize how loud I am especially when I get excited about what I’m talking about… my husband always has to shush me, lol.
But as I said besides socially I’m prettt successful… I’ve always been smart and excelled academically and in my career. Professionally I’m able to mask and fake my way through being collegial and I supervise a ton of folks who have all raved about me as a manager, so it doesn’t manifest there…
If how you described yourself is autism, then that tent is pretty big.
Exactly. The reason why scientists have basically have had to create new autism categories is to fix the overly broad diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 and clinical practice. If you don’t filter out the adults who are normal in all ways except some social quirks then you cannot do any sort of meaningful research.
I’m not disagreeing with you and fully acknowledge that those currently classified as levels 2 and 3 need far more support. At the same time this comment comes off as incredibly dismissive that high functioning autistics don’t benefit from a diagnosis. We do. I’m working through a lot now that I have a diagnosis that is helping me understand my childhood and who I am that I wouldn’t be able to do without the clarity around how my mind works. Don’t dismiss my experience I won’t dismiss yours or your child’s
You could understand your mind without a diagnosis so broad as to be understood by many to be meaningless.
Who literally thinks it's "meaningless"? Many autistic people and their families can tell you the diagnosis has been very meaningful to them and helped them get the support they need.
The problem is that many adults are insisting on an autism diagnosis because it has some kind of identity benefits/secondary gain, when their actual issues are not autism.
Yeah it's more palatable to be "high functioning autistic adult" than "person with few friends who isn't particularly likable" (me).
lol. The other thing is that there are autism characteristics that are subclinical but people want a diagnosis to get the secondary benefits of it. At the end of the day, autism seems like one of the few things where it has to be an all-encompassing identity instead of just being a condition you have. Like I have legit generalized anxiety but I don’t call myself “an anxious” or seek to see everything through that lens. instead I try to cope with it (and take medication that helps it go away).
Anxiety is a treatable condition. You can provide supports for autism but you can't make an autistic person not autistic (though a small percentage of autistic kids go on to not qualify for the diagnosis as adults)
Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. I will always be predisposed to anxiety and medication is only so effective. It’s genetic and I have passed it down to my kid. But nobody is telling me that being “an anxious” is my immutable self.
Because you can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. Autistic people don't stop being impacted by their autism because they have supports.
That’s not true at all. I wish it could disappear but I will always have it and it corresponds to a certain way my brain interprets events (and sometimes just spontaneously generates). As we start diagnosing more and more very mild cases of autism it absolutely becomes something more like a personality or way of being in the world. But people want to make it their whole identity.
Everyone worries, what matters is how you respond to it. Worries that don't limit your life are not anxiety.
Of course. Not sure what your point is.
You're conflating worries with anxiety. You can treat your anxiety and have it not impact your life. It is not impairing you. An autistic person will always have some level of impairment.
Really? Because a lot of people got through life and only found out they had autism when their child got diagnosed. Was the parent really “impaired” if they didn’t even know? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have som issue or another. The term neurodivergent is becoming completely meaningless. Neuro diverse compared to what? Who exactly is the baseline not diverse?
The vast majority of people do not have autism or suspect it in themselves.
I have a child with confirmed autism.
I don't know if I would qualify for a diagnosis but I can point to several ways in which the way my brain works limits my life in meaningful ways.
Just because a disability is not visible to you as an outsider does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe not autism but they may be alcoholics, have body dysmorphia, eating disorders, depression, and a host of other issues. Is that who we are comparing the neuro diverse to? Seems like they all belong under the same neurodivergent umbrella so that there are more people under the umbrella than not.
No, substance use disorders, depression, anxiety are not considered "neurodivergence" which is itself not a clinical term in the DSM.
But we’re talking about a limited life. Who decided that’s the qualifier?
Those conditions are treatable. Of course, they can be disabling if untreated or ineffectively treated.
So, a lot like autism?
No. See above.
You’re not doing a very good job here. A limited life? Invisible impairment? Untreatable conditions? It’s like arguing the science is settled with some thing constantly evolving and clearly not settled.
I'm not arguing the science is settled. I'm sorry you don't think I'm doing a good job explaining things to you. Maybe you should ask someone else as I clearly can't help you.
We’re back at the beginning. Can’t really describe autism and certainly no two people with autism can be alike, but it’s a coveted identity to explain a limited life, lest we have to consider other factors.
And don’t forget that it can be masked so thoroughly as to be invisible to all and not impact your life at all.
Even if you don’t see the impact, if the person says it’s impacting them, it’s impacting them… it’s incredibly draining to mask all day and it leads to meltdowns.
I feel incredibly drained at the end of the day too!
Ok and? Is this meant to say that because you’ve experienced something similar, my experience shouldn’t count?
I mean to say, claiming that common life experiences are “neurodivergence” is annoying.
Your experience and my experience are likely not the same. Just stop.
Then who are you to say your experience is just totally different because it can’t be treated unlike other conditions, which you clearly don’t have and have no experience with? If someone’s anxiety impacts them and diminishes their quality of life, what’s it to you? People with anxiety melt down too.
DP
Fyi, you are conflating 2 different posters.
Of course anxiety can impact quality of life if not properly managed. Nobody is questioning.
I think part of the confusion is the assumption that "masking" means the person can behave exactly like a non autistic person. I don't understand masking to mean that. My understanding is that when an autistic person is "masking" they attempting to interact with others in the way that is expected (e.g. eye contact, reciprocal conversation). However, this does not come to them naturally, takes great effort, and they often won't fully meet expectations. The people they are interacting with may not identify they are autistic but may feel offended, put off or confused.
Anonymous wrote:I think part of the confusion is the assumption that "masking" means the person can behave exactly like a non autistic person. I don't understand masking to mean that. My understanding is that when an autistic person is "masking" they attempting to interact with others in the way that is expected (e.g. eye contact, reciprocal conversation). However, this does not come to them naturally, takes great effort, and they often won't fully meet expectations. The people they are interacting with may not identify they are autistic but may feel offended, put off or confused.
That makes a lot of assumptions about the other person also these norms vary by culture. Few people are naturally socially gifted.
Anonymous wrote:I think part of the confusion is the assumption that "masking" means the person can behave exactly like a non autistic person. I don't understand masking to mean that. My understanding is that when an autistic person is "masking" they attempting to interact with others in the way that is expected (e.g. eye contact, reciprocal conversation). However, this does not come to them naturally, takes great effort, and they often won't fully meet expectations. The people they are interacting with may not identify they are autistic but may feel offended, put off or confused.
That makes a lot of assumptions about the other person also these norms vary by culture. Few people are naturally socially gifted.
You seem determined to dismiss the experiences of high functioning autistics…why is that? Seriously, what value do you get from saying that their experience is just “normal” when it’s clearly not?
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}