Poverty level is $140,000 for a family. Really.

[Anonymous]

At 140k if I had a paid off house, paid off cars and kids in public school it might work. But even then you are one big bill away from trouble

I made that much in 2005 with two kids in a starter home and two paid off cars and literally we only got take out pizza with a coupon, I mowed my own lawn, did all my own home repairs

[Anonymous]

Sounds like the article is saying “if you live this very reasonable UMC lifestyle of daycare and shopping at WholeFoods and driving 2 new cars, and having thousands of discretionary income each month, you’re in poverty when you look at what’s leftover! What a ridiculous position.

You cannot afford any of this on $140K per year in the DC area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like the article is saying “if you live this very reasonable UMC lifestyle of daycare and shopping at WholeFoods and driving 2 new cars, and having thousands of discretionary income each month, you’re in poverty when you look at what’s leftover! What a ridiculous position.

You cannot afford any of this on $140K per year in the DC area.

I have family on Frederick who do this just fine. And the schools are good too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like the article is saying “if you live this very reasonable UMC lifestyle of daycare and shopping at WholeFoods and driving 2 new cars, and having thousands of discretionary income each month, you’re in poverty when you look at what’s leftover! What a ridiculous position.

You cannot afford any of this on $140K per year in the DC area.

I have family on Frederick who do this just fine. And the schools are good too.

I doubt it. Daycare cost is still the killer. $140k isn't enough for 2 working parents. It works fine if one parent makes that much and the other stays home, but that's different from the scenario described in the article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like the article is saying “if you live this very reasonable UMC lifestyle of daycare and shopping at WholeFoods and driving 2 new cars, and having thousands of discretionary income each month, you’re in poverty when you look at what’s leftover! What a ridiculous position.

You cannot afford any of this on $140K per year in the DC area.

I have family on Frederick who do this just fine. And the schools are good too.

I doubt it. Daycare cost is still the killer. $140k isn't enough for 2 working parents. It works fine if one parent makes that much and the other stays home, but that's different from the scenario described in the article.

Daycare costs do not last forever right. And licensed home daycares are cheaper than the centers. Furthermore, there are townhouses with cheaper mortgages and maintenance, and then there is shift work. This is so far from poverty, it is ridiclous. The children in these families are happy and thriving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like the article is saying “if you live this very reasonable UMC lifestyle of daycare and shopping at WholeFoods and driving 2 new cars, and having thousands of discretionary income each month, you’re in poverty when you look at what’s leftover! What a ridiculous position.

You cannot afford any of this on $140K per year in the DC area.

I have family on Frederick who do this just fine. And the schools are good too.

I doubt it. Daycare cost is still the killer. $140k isn't enough for 2 working parents. It works fine if one parent makes that much and the other stays home, but that's different from the scenario described in the article.

Daycare costs do not last forever right. And licensed home daycares are cheaper than the centers. Furthermore, there are townhouses with cheaper mortgages and maintenance, and then there is shift work. This is so far from poverty, it is ridiclous. The children in these families are happy and thriving.

Every year, my look forward to my daycare costs going down as my kids get older, and every year, the daycare raises its rates. I'm still paying what I was paying when I had one infant and one 2 year old - I cannot imagine doing this for so many years on less than $140 HHI. I hear from my friends with older kids that the costs don't go down once they start kindergarten - instead you're close paying the same amount for before/aftercare + daycare during the summer (camps, babysitter, etc). You're really underplaying the costs associated with caring for kids these days.

[Anonymous]

It's true daycare costs go way down when kids start school. But no they don't disappear. If both parents work, you need full day coverage all year. So it's more like your costs decline from say 2k/mo (per kid)in daycare, to more like 1k/mo (per kid) in elementary (I'm amortizing the cost of summer camp over the year and including some basic sports/activities because it's actually pretty hard to just do aftercare with no added activities -- schools push you towards sports and clubs because it's a much better way to occupy kids).

What really gets you is these costs on top of housing. On 140k/yr, it going to be hard to rent or own a 2-3 bedroom home for less than 42k/yr in the DC area. The lower cost options will come with other expenses (an additional car because no public transit at all, for instance). Some less expensive options will add stress in the form of safety concerns, very bad schools, and added commute times. They may also increase childcare costs due to those longer commutes.

Getting all those pieces to work together on 140k in this area, with two working parents, is rough. We do it on slightly more than that but one parent works part time, which makes all the difference -- huge cost savings on childcare, which frees up money for housing, which enables a housing choice that allows for only one car and little driving, which results in lower stress and better schedules. The same one income with two FT jobs is much harder, and that's at more like 155k, so 140k is going to be even tighter.

It's weird to me to see people claiming that you can always save money by moving further out or living in very undesirable neighborhoods. Those choices create additional costs. We live in a high crime neighborhood already, moving somewhere even cheaper sounds nightmarish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like the article is saying “if you live this very reasonable UMC lifestyle of daycare and shopping at WholeFoods and driving 2 new cars, and having thousands of discretionary income each month, you’re in poverty when you look at what’s leftover! What a ridiculous position.

You cannot afford any of this on $140K per year in the DC area.

I have family on Frederick who do this just fine. And the schools are good too.

Holy cow, is Frederick part of the DC area? The near side of the county 50 miles away and probably a 90-minute commute each way, the far side is closer to Pennsylvania than Washington.

And even with that, Google says "The cost of living in Frederick, MD is 32.2% higher than the national average. Generally, housing in Frederick is 91.6% more expensive than the national average, with rent falling between $1,452 – $2,376. You can expect to pay 8.8% more for groceries, 10.2% more for utilities, and 1.0% more for transportation."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like the article is saying “if you live this very reasonable UMC lifestyle of daycare and shopping at WholeFoods and driving 2 new cars, and having thousands of discretionary income each month, you’re in poverty when you look at what’s leftover! What a ridiculous position.

You cannot afford any of this on $140K per year in the DC area.

I have family on Frederick who do this just fine. And the schools are good too.

how?

Rent = $2000/month
Daycare for 2 kids = $3000/month
Health/dental ins and costs = $1000/month
Food, transportation, utilities, clothing, and literally everything else a family needs to spend money on = $4000/month

that is $10,000 a month or $120,000 a year AFTER TAXES so factor in what you need to make total to pay FICA, state and federal taxes on top of that

and there is no retirement or college savings built in there, no student loans to pay off...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like the article is saying “if you live this very reasonable UMC lifestyle of daycare and shopping at WholeFoods and driving 2 new cars, and having thousands of discretionary income each month, you’re in poverty when you look at what’s leftover! What a ridiculous position.

You cannot afford any of this on $140K per year in the DC area.

I have family on Frederick who do this just fine. And the schools are good too.

Holy cow, is Frederick part of the DC area? The near side of the county 50 miles away and probably a 90-minute commute each way, the far side is closer to Pennsylvania than Washington.

And even with that, Google says "The cost of living in Frederick, MD is 32.2% higher than the national average. Generally, housing in Frederick is 91.6% more expensive than the national average, with rent falling between $1,452 – $2,376. You can expect to pay 8.8% more for groceries, 10.2% more for utilities, and 1.0% more for transportation."

What's this in context? Say Bethesda? Is COL in Bethesda 68% higher than Nat'l average? What about housing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like the article is saying “if you live this very reasonable UMC lifestyle of daycare and shopping at WholeFoods and driving 2 new cars, and having thousands of discretionary income each month, you’re in poverty when you look at what’s leftover! What a ridiculous position.

You cannot afford any of this on $140K per year in the DC area.

I have family on Frederick who do this just fine. And the schools are good too.

Holy cow, is Frederick part of the DC area? The near side of the county 50 miles away and probably a 90-minute commute each way, the far side is closer to Pennsylvania than Washington.

And even with that, Google says "The cost of living in Frederick, MD is 32.2% higher than the national average. Generally, housing in Frederick is 91.6% more expensive than the national average, with rent falling between $1,452 – $2,376. You can expect to pay 8.8% more for groceries, 10.2% more for utilities, and 1.0% more for transportation."

What's this in context? Say Bethesda? Is COL in Bethesda 68% higher than Nat'l average? What about housing?

The conversation was:

PP1: You cannot afford any of this on $140K per year in the DC area.

PP2: I have family on Frederick who do this just fine.

PP3: The cost of living in Frederick, MD is 32.2% higher than the national average.

It doesn't matter what the COL in Bethesda is how much Frederick is less than Bethesda, the point is PP2 said Frederick is "just fine" for a family of four on $140K and that's not really true. It is difficult for a family of four to live a middle class life on $140K anywhere remotely close to a major metropolitan area (meaning most of the NE corridor), meaning anything above paycheck-to-paycheck, saving for the future, etc. Its closer to poverty than middle class, where just one major setback (major illness, temporary job loss) means the debt cycle, bankruptcy, housing loss, etc.

[Anonymous]

Cost of Living amount these days is inflated just like grades. People have inflated what is needed to be middle class. You people are crazy.