Can parents sue to move unruly child to alternative school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something happened at our elementary school where a kid hurt several children. There ended up being a parent meeting about the situation and the unruly child was moved to a private school placement. It turns out that the child's parents had been trying to get him moved for a long time and MCPS was not cooperative. I think pressure from the other parents made it happen.

Assuming that the violent child transferred to a special needs school, can anyone please shed some light on how they address classroom violence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

MCPS is an educational organization. It is not a medical organization that can treat children for medical problems, physical or mental.

When your child breaks a leg, you take them to a doctor.

When your child has a mental illness, repeatedly assaulting others, you take them to a doctor.

It’s that simple. If parents grossly neglect their basic parenting responsibilities, the legal system gets involved, and finds alternative care for your child.

And after breaking your leg and getting it set, the school is obligated to provide accommodations. They can't tell you to stay home until the cast comes off.

Exactly. No one wants any kid to stay home forever. After an experienced doctor treats your child, they typically let you know how soon it’s safe for your child to return to school. No one wants repeated episodes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something happened at our elementary school where a kid hurt several children. There ended up being a parent meeting about the situation and the unruly child was moved to a private school placement. It turns out that the child's parents had been trying to get him moved for a long time and MCPS was not cooperative. I think pressure from the other parents made it happen.

Assuming that the violent child transferred to a special needs school, can anyone please shed some light on how they address classroom violence?

In alternative programs, “classrooms” are not always like what you see in a traditional school. Some kids get a quiet room where they are working in a beanbag chair. Some classes are totally hands on and experiential where the class is building something as they are discussing the lesson topic.

And there is tons more support like having social workers and counselors.


So what I’m saying is that these schools often provide an environment that will allow kids to be more successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

MCPS is an educational organization. It is not a medical organization that can treat children for medical problems, physical or mental.

When your child breaks a leg, you take them to a doctor.

When your child has a mental illness, repeatedly assaulting others, you take them to a doctor.

It’s that simple. If parents grossly neglect their basic parenting responsibilities, the legal system gets involved, and finds alternative care for your child.

And after breaking your leg and getting it set, the school is obligated to provide accommodations. They can't tell you to stay home until the cast comes off.

Exactly. No one wants any kid to stay home forever. After an experienced doctor treats your child, they typically let you know how soon it’s safe for your child to return to school. No one wants repeated episodes.

The child isn't the responsible party here. The school is responsible for providing the accomodations necessary for a safe and effective learning environment. This is particularly true for long-term or chronic impairments (e.g., developmental disabilities) rather than short-term impairments (e.g., a broken bone).

All you're doing, pp, is continuing to demonstrate why we need things like the ADA and IDEA to protect our most vulnerable kids from ignorant adults who have never had to face similar challenges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah my daughter had juvenile harassment charges against a boy in her school and the only thing they offer up is they can’t be the same class or MY child can put in for a COSA they would immediately accept.

So no, unruly kids, bullies, and even those with charges have more rights than the victims.

This is a travesty and a perversion of the law. No other country in the world has to fear school sanctioned classroom violence by deranged kids.

Indeed it is. The only thing that will change it though is if people start taking this insane practice to court and we get new legal rulings issued.

Courts aren't the issue. It's very hard for families to prevail against schools in court.

As discussed earlier, the issue is money. It is far cheaper for schools to keep kids in general education settings without support than it is to move them into a specialized program or pay for a paraeducator.

Liar. It costs nothing to send a sick child home. Violent, mental illness is a sickness. Sick children can not be kept at school. They need medical attention.

Kids aren't sent home from school to get medical attention. They're sent home when they're thought to be contagious. You're not going to send home a kid with epilepsy or cystic fibrosis until they're dead or "cured". (Though, maybe you'd want to, since they're going to be among the students most expensive to accommodate).

There are clear legal protections in place to prevent schools from refusing to serve students with challenging medical impairments or physic, mental, or developmental disabilities. The unfortunatel reality is there are others in the world like you who would willfully ignore the needs of those students if it meant saving a little money on their taxes or sheltering their kids from the sad realities of lives of less fortunate individuals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah my daughter had juvenile harassment charges against a boy in her school and the only thing they offer up is they can’t be the same class or MY child can put in for a COSA they would immediately accept.

So no, unruly kids, bullies, and even those with charges have more rights than the victims.

This is a travesty and a perversion of the law. No other country in the world has to fear school sanctioned classroom violence by deranged kids.

Indeed it is. The only thing that will change it though is if people start taking this insane practice to court and we get new legal rulings issued.

Courts aren't the issue. It's very hard for families to prevail against schools in court.

As discussed earlier, the issue is money. It is far cheaper for schools to keep kids in general education settings without support than it is to move them into a specialized program or pay for a paraeducator.

No, there’s nothing “cheap” when you’re assaulted.
Which support needs to be available for violent kids?

It's cheap for the school, and they're the ones making the decisions here. They don't want to pay for a paraeducator, a special program, or private placement.

Please stop saying it’s cheaper for the school. The school doesn’t pay for alternative placements and wants kids in the right learning environment. Teachers, counselors, and administrators work so hard accommodating and documenting when a child is clearly misplaced in a mainstream environment. The county requires a lot of evidence and if parents aren’t on board it takes an act of god for the county to risk a lawsuit and send the kid to an alternative placement against parent wishes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah my daughter had juvenile harassment charges against a boy in her school and the only thing they offer up is they can’t be the same class or MY child can put in for a COSA they would immediately accept.

So no, unruly kids, bullies, and even those with charges have more rights than the victims.

This is a travesty and a perversion of the law. No other country in the world has to fear school sanctioned classroom violence by deranged kids.

Indeed it is. The only thing that will change it though is if people start taking this insane practice to court and we get new legal rulings issued.

Courts aren't the issue. It's very hard for families to prevail against schools in court.

As discussed earlier, the issue is money. It is far cheaper for schools to keep kids in general education settings without support than it is to move them into a specialized program or pay for a paraeducator.

No, there’s nothing “cheap” when you’re assaulted.
Which support needs to be available for violent kids?

It's cheap for the school, and they're the ones making the decisions here. They don't want to pay for a paraeducator, a special program, or private placement.

Please stop saying it’s cheaper for the school. The school doesn’t pay for alternative placements and wants kids in the right learning environment. Teachers, counselors, and administrators work so hard accommodating and documenting when a child is clearly misplaced in a mainstream environment. The county requires a lot of evidence and if parents aren’t on board it takes an act of god for the county to risk a lawsuit and send the kid to an alternative placement against parent wishes.

Typical bs. Exactly which administrators do you believe are working so hard? For whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah my daughter had juvenile harassment charges against a boy in her school and the only thing they offer up is they can’t be the same class or MY child can put in for a COSA they would immediately accept.

So no, unruly kids, bullies, and even those with charges have more rights than the victims.

This is a travesty and a perversion of the law. No other country in the world has to fear school sanctioned classroom violence by deranged kids.

Indeed it is. The only thing that will change it though is if people start taking this insane practice to court and we get new legal rulings issued.

Courts aren't the issue. It's very hard for families to prevail against schools in court.

As discussed earlier, the issue is money. It is far cheaper for schools to keep kids in general education settings without support than it is to move them into a specialized program or pay for a paraeducator.

No, there’s nothing “cheap” when you’re assaulted.
Which support needs to be available for violent kids?

It's cheap for the school, and they're the ones making the decisions here. They don't want to pay for a paraeducator, a special program, or private placement.

Please stop saying it’s cheaper for the school. The school doesn’t pay for alternative placements and wants kids in the right learning environment. Teachers, counselors, and administrators work so hard accommodating and documenting when a child is clearly misplaced in a mainstream environment. The county requires a lot of evidence and if parents aren’t on board it takes an act of god for the county to risk a lawsuit and send the kid to an alternative placement against parent wishes.

The school district absolutely pays for private placements. That's why they don't agree to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah my daughter had juvenile harassment charges against a boy in her school and the only thing they offer up is they can’t be the same class or MY child can put in for a COSA they would immediately accept.

So no, unruly kids, bullies, and even those with charges have more rights than the victims.

This is a travesty and a perversion of the law. No other country in the world has to fear school sanctioned classroom violence by deranged kids.

Indeed it is. The only thing that will change it though is if people start taking this insane practice to court and we get new legal rulings issued.

Courts aren't the issue. It's very hard for families to prevail against schools in court.

As discussed earlier, the issue is money. It is far cheaper for schools to keep kids in general education settings without support than it is to move them into a specialized program or pay for a paraeducator.

No, there’s nothing “cheap” when you’re assaulted.
Which support needs to be available for violent kids?

It's cheap for the school, and they're the ones making the decisions here. They don't want to pay for a paraeducator, a special program, or private placement.

Please stop saying it’s cheaper for the school. The school doesn’t pay for alternative placements and wants kids in the right learning environment. Teachers, counselors, and administrators work so hard accommodating and documenting when a child is clearly misplaced in a mainstream environment. The county requires a lot of evidence and if parents aren’t on board it takes an act of god for the county to risk a lawsuit and send the kid to an alternative placement against parent wishes.

The school district absolutely pays for private placements. That's why they don't agree to them.

The county does. The school doesn’t. No one working in the school building wants kids in the wrong placement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah my daughter had juvenile harassment charges against a boy in her school and the only thing they offer up is they can’t be the same class or MY child can put in for a COSA they would immediately accept.

So no, unruly kids, bullies, and even those with charges have more rights than the victims.

This is a travesty and a perversion of the law. No other country in the world has to fear school sanctioned classroom violence by deranged kids.

Indeed it is. The only thing that will change it though is if people start taking this insane practice to court and we get new legal rulings issued.

Courts aren't the issue. It's very hard for families to prevail against schools in court.

As discussed earlier, the issue is money. It is far cheaper for schools to keep kids in general education settings without support than it is to move them into a specialized program or pay for a paraeducator.

No, there’s nothing “cheap” when you’re assaulted.
Which support needs to be available for violent kids?

It's cheap for the school, and they're the ones making the decisions here. They don't want to pay for a paraeducator, a special program, or private placement.

Please stop saying it’s cheaper for the school. The school doesn’t pay for alternative placements and wants kids in the right learning environment. Teachers, counselors, and administrators work so hard accommodating and documenting when a child is clearly misplaced in a mainstream environment. The county requires a lot of evidence and if parents aren’t on board it takes an act of god for the county to risk a lawsuit and send the kid to an alternative placement against parent wishes.

The school district absolutely pays for private placements. That's why they don't agree to them.

The county does. The school doesn’t. No one working in the school building wants kids in the wrong placement.

("Wrong placement" == public school)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something happened at our elementary school where a kid hurt several children. There ended up being a parent meeting about the situation and the unruly child was moved to a private school placement. It turns out that the child's parents had been trying to get him moved for a long time and MCPS was not cooperative. I think pressure from the other parents made it happen.

Assuming that the violent child transferred to a special needs school, can anyone please shed some light on how they address classroom violence?

In alternative programs, “classrooms” are not always like what you see in a traditional school. Some kids get a quiet room where they are working in a beanbag chair. Some classes are totally hands on and experiential where the class is building something as they are discussing the lesson topic.

And there is tons more support like having social workers and counselors.


So what I’m saying is that these schools often provide an environment that will allow kids to be more successful.

Funny how spending triple ($60K/yr vs $20K/yr for school) solves so many problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah my daughter had juvenile harassment charges against a boy in her school and the only thing they offer up is they can’t be the same class or MY child can put in for a COSA they would immediately accept.

So no, unruly kids, bullies, and even those with charges have more rights than the victims.

This is a travesty and a perversion of the law. No other country in the world has to fear school sanctioned classroom violence by deranged kids.

Indeed it is. The only thing that will change it though is if people start taking this insane practice to court and we get new legal rulings issued.

Courts aren't the issue. It's very hard for families to prevail against schools in court.

As discussed earlier, the issue is money. It is far cheaper for schools to keep kids in general education settings without support than it is to move them into a specialized program or pay for a paraeducator.

No, there’s nothing “cheap” when you’re assaulted.
Which support needs to be available for violent kids?

It's cheap for the school, and they're the ones making the decisions here. They don't want to pay for a paraeducator, a special program, or private placement.

Please stop saying it’s cheaper for the school. The school doesn’t pay for alternative placements and wants kids in the right learning environment. Teachers, counselors, and administrators work so hard accommodating and documenting when a child is clearly misplaced in a mainstream environment. The county requires a lot of evidence and if parents aren’t on board it takes an act of god for the county to risk a lawsuit and send the kid to an alternative placement against parent wishes.

The school district absolutely pays for private placements. That's why they don't agree to them.

The county does. The school doesn’t. No one working in the school building wants kids in the wrong placement.

In this context, when people say "school", they're often referring to the public school system as a whole, not the building in their neighborhood.

To your point (I think), yes, the teachers', and often the principals', hands are tied by the resourcing decisions made by the central office and school board. I have no complaints about any of the teachers or special educators my kids have had. They've all been doing well for what they have to work with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something happened at our elementary school where a kid hurt several children. There ended up being a parent meeting about the situation and the unruly child was moved to a private school placement. It turns out that the child's parents had been trying to get him moved for a long time and MCPS was not cooperative. I think pressure from the other parents made it happen.

Assuming that the violent child transferred to a special needs school, can anyone please shed some light on how they address classroom violence?

In alternative programs, “classrooms” are not always like what you see in a traditional school. Some kids get a quiet room where they are working in a beanbag chair. Some classes are totally hands on and experiential where the class is building something as they are discussing the lesson topic.

And there is tons more support like having social workers and counselors.


So what I’m saying is that these schools often provide an environment that will allow kids to be more successful.

Funny how spending triple ($60K/yr vs $20K/yr for school) solves so many problems.

Yes, accommodations for disabilities can be expensive. Do you think that's unique to schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something happened at our elementary school where a kid hurt several children. There ended up being a parent meeting about the situation and the unruly child was moved to a private school placement. It turns out that the child's parents had been trying to get him moved for a long time and MCPS was not cooperative. I think pressure from the other parents made it happen.

Assuming that the violent child transferred to a special needs school, can anyone please shed some light on how they address classroom violence?

They address classroom violence by having a small teacher to student ration and paras to help. Also, there’s an emphasis on avoiding triggers. Teachers also try to intervene before the violence happens—for example if they see the child becoming agitated they might offer the kid a sensory corner to calm down or otherwise provide a break.

These interventions aren’t possible in mainstream schools with one teacher for 25 students.

[Anonymous]

S/o- for those who experienced this in their children’s classrooms, what’s the best way to support the child and also protect your own child from harm?