Can parents sue to move unruly child to alternative school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

MCPS is an educational organization. It is not a medical organization that can treat children for medical problems, physical or mental.

When your child breaks a leg, you take them to a doctor.

When your child has a mental illness, repeatedly assaulting others, you take them to a doctor.

It’s that simple. If parents grossly neglect their basic parenting responsibilities, the legal system gets involved, and finds alternative care for your child.

And after breaking your leg and getting it set, the school is obligated to provide accommodations. They can't tell you to stay home until the cast comes off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

Violent kids have a mental health problem. That’s different than a disability.

Mental health issues are disabilities. They may need different interventions than cognitive or physical disabilities. But they are disabilities nonetheless.

School teachers are not medical professionals. They can’t legally medically treat violent children who require medical attention for their mental health problems.

Schools are required to educate all kids, even those with mental health problems.

But here’s the problem as I can see it. There are kids who need mental health services. To get them there needs to be providers, programs and vacant slots/beds/appointments. And then you have to pay for it.

People are scrambling to find resources for their kids. But there aren’t programs. And there aren’t beds. And there aren’t therapists and psychiatrists who don’t have waiting lists. And while they are waiting, parents are required to send their kids to school - which are not equipped to handle the violent incidents.

Also, for some perspective on cost, I have excellent insurance and in one four month period my out of pocket costs were $50k after exhausting every single resource.

I guess my point is that this is really a problem that goes beyond the walls of the schools.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Over just four months, $50k out of pocket is certainly astronomical.

About how old was your child at the time? What were the diagnosis? What treatments finally worked? Which professionals (psychiatrist, psychologist, etc) provide the best advice?

Public schools are indeed responsible to educate children. However, when a child’s health, PHYSICAL or MENTAL, prevents safe school attendance, the child deserves virtual instruction from home. Parents are NEVER required to send an ill child to school.

If parents can’t afford effective medical care, social services must be accessed.

This poster again.

I know you'd love to kick kids with disabilities out of public schools. It is not going to happen. You should be advocating for the resources to provide accommodations to makes public schools safe and effective for all students.

Liar Only the violent kids must be removed so teachers and other students aren’t continually assaulted at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

Violent kids have a mental health problem. That’s different than a disability.

Mental health issues are disabilities. They may need different interventions than cognitive or physical disabilities. But they are disabilities nonetheless.

School teachers are not medical professionals. They can’t legally medically treat violent children who require medical attention for their mental health problems.

Schools are required to educate all kids, even those with mental health problems.

But here’s the problem as I can see it. There are kids who need mental health services. To get them there needs to be providers, programs and vacant slots/beds/appointments. And then you have to pay for it.

People are scrambling to find resources for their kids. But there aren’t programs. And there aren’t beds. And there aren’t therapists and psychiatrists who don’t have waiting lists. And while they are waiting, parents are required to send their kids to school - which are not equipped to handle the violent incidents.

Also, for some perspective on cost, I have excellent insurance and in one four month period my out of pocket costs were $50k after exhausting every single resource.

I guess my point is that this is really a problem that goes beyond the walls of the schools.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Over just four months, $50k out of pocket is certainly astronomical.

About how old was your child at the time? What were the diagnosis? What treatments finally worked? Which professionals (psychiatrist, psychologist, etc) provide the best advice?

Public schools are indeed responsible to educate children. However, when a child’s health, PHYSICAL or MENTAL, prevents safe school attendance, the child deserves virtual instruction from home. Parents are NEVER required to send an ill child to school.

If parents can’t afford effective medical care, social services must be accessed.

This poster again.

I know you'd love to kick kids with disabilities out of public schools. It is not going to happen. You should be advocating for the resources to provide accommodations to makes public schools safe and effective for all students.

Liar Only the violent kids must be removed so teachers and other students aren’t continually assaulted at school.

That's a clear sign that MCPS isn't providing appropriate supports and services to those kids. MCPS would rather provide GT and IB programs to kids of rich, white parents than provide FAPE to everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

Violent kids have a mental health problem. That’s different than a disability.

Mental health issues are disabilities. They may need different interventions than cognitive or physical disabilities. But they are disabilities nonetheless.

School teachers are not medical professionals. They can’t legally medically treat violent children who require medical attention for their mental health problems.

Schools are required to educate all kids, even those with mental health problems.

But here’s the problem as I can see it. There are kids who need mental health services. To get them there needs to be providers, programs and vacant slots/beds/appointments. And then you have to pay for it.

People are scrambling to find resources for their kids. But there aren’t programs. And there aren’t beds. And there aren’t therapists and psychiatrists who don’t have waiting lists. And while they are waiting, parents are required to send their kids to school - which are not equipped to handle the violent incidents.

Also, for some perspective on cost, I have excellent insurance and in one four month period my out of pocket costs were $50k after exhausting every single resource.

I guess my point is that this is really a problem that goes beyond the walls of the schools.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Over just four months, $50k out of pocket is certainly astronomical.

About how old was your child at the time? What were the diagnosis? What treatments finally worked? Which professionals (psychiatrist, psychologist, etc) provide the best advice?

Public schools are indeed responsible to educate children. However, when a child’s health, PHYSICAL or MENTAL, prevents safe school attendance, the child deserves virtual instruction from home. Parents are NEVER required to send an ill child to school.

If parents can’t afford effective medical care, social services must be accessed.

This poster again.

I know you'd love to kick kids with disabilities out of public schools. It is not going to happen. You should be advocating for the resources to provide accommodations to makes public schools safe and effective for all students.

Liar Only the violent kids must be removed so teachers and other students aren’t continually assaulted at school.

That's a clear sign that MCPS isn't providing appropriate supports and services to those kids. MCPS would rather provide GT and IB programs to kids of rich, white parents than provide FAPE to everyone else.

The public school system is NOT a medical facility. Chronically VIOLENT kids need MEDICAL attention for their mental illness.

Come back to the classroom as soon as it’s safe to do so. Your physician will help you figure this out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

Violent kids have a mental health problem. That’s different than a disability.

Mental health issues are disabilities. They may need different interventions than cognitive or physical disabilities. But they are disabilities nonetheless.

School teachers are not medical professionals. They can’t legally medically treat violent children who require medical attention for their mental health problems.

Schools are required to educate all kids, even those with mental health problems.

But here’s the problem as I can see it. There are kids who need mental health services. To get them there needs to be providers, programs and vacant slots/beds/appointments. And then you have to pay for it.

People are scrambling to find resources for their kids. But there aren’t programs. And there aren’t beds. And there aren’t therapists and psychiatrists who don’t have waiting lists. And while they are waiting, parents are required to send their kids to school - which are not equipped to handle the violent incidents.

Also, for some perspective on cost, I have excellent insurance and in one four month period my out of pocket costs were $50k after exhausting every single resource.

I guess my point is that this is really a problem that goes beyond the walls of the schools.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Over just four months, $50k out of pocket is certainly astronomical.

About how old was your child at the time? What were the diagnosis? What treatments finally worked? Which professionals (psychiatrist, psychologist, etc) provide the best advice?

Public schools are indeed responsible to educate children. However, when a child’s health, PHYSICAL or MENTAL, prevents safe school attendance, the child deserves virtual instruction from home. Parents are NEVER required to send an ill child to school.

If parents can’t afford effective medical care, social services must be accessed.

This poster again.

I know you'd love to kick kids with disabilities out of public schools. It is not going to happen. You should be advocating for the resources to provide accommodations to makes public schools safe and effective for all students.

Liar Only the violent kids must be removed so teachers and other students aren’t continually assaulted at school.

That's a clear sign that MCPS isn't providing appropriate supports and services to those kids. MCPS would rather provide GT and IB programs to kids of rich, white parents than provide FAPE to everyone else.

The public school system is NOT a medical facility. Chronically VIOLENT kids need MEDICAL attention for their mental illness.

Come back to the classroom as soon as it’s safe to do so. Your physician will help you figure this out.

You don't seem to have a very good grasp of developmental disabilities. These are chronic conditions that need to be continuously managed. Medical providers are responsible for some elements, like medications and certain therapies, but environmental supports and services with the classrooms will be necessary on an ongoing basis for many kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

Violent kids have a mental health problem. That’s different than a disability.

Mental health issues are disabilities. They may need different interventions than cognitive or physical disabilities. But they are disabilities nonetheless.

School teachers are not medical professionals. They can’t legally medically treat violent children who require medical attention for their mental health problems.

Schools are required to educate all kids, even those with mental health problems.

But here’s the problem as I can see it. There are kids who need mental health services. To get them there needs to be providers, programs and vacant slots/beds/appointments. And then you have to pay for it.

People are scrambling to find resources for their kids. But there aren’t programs. And there aren’t beds. And there aren’t therapists and psychiatrists who don’t have waiting lists. And while they are waiting, parents are required to send their kids to school - which are not equipped to handle the violent incidents.

Also, for some perspective on cost, I have excellent insurance and in one four month period my out of pocket costs were $50k after exhausting every single resource.

I guess my point is that this is really a problem that goes beyond the walls of the schools.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Over just four months, $50k out of pocket is certainly astronomical.

About how old was your child at the time? What were the diagnosis? What treatments finally worked? Which professionals (psychiatrist, psychologist, etc) provide the best advice?

Public schools are indeed responsible to educate children. However, when a child’s health, PHYSICAL or MENTAL, prevents safe school attendance, the child deserves virtual instruction from home. Parents are NEVER required to send an ill child to school.

If parents can’t afford effective medical care, social services must be accessed.

This poster again.

I know you'd love to kick kids with disabilities out of public schools. It is not going to happen. You should be advocating for the resources to provide accommodations to makes public schools safe and effective for all students.

Liar Only the violent kids must be removed so teachers and other students aren’t continually assaulted at school.

That's a clear sign that MCPS isn't providing appropriate supports and services to those kids. MCPS would rather provide GT and IB programs to kids of rich, white parents than provide FAPE to everyone else.

The public school system is NOT a medical facility. Chronically VIOLENT kids need MEDICAL attention for their mental illness.

Come back to the classroom as soon as it’s safe to do so. Your physician will help you figure this out.

You don't seem to have a very good grasp of developmental disabilities. These are chronic conditions that need to be continuously managed. Medical providers are responsible for some elements, like medications and certain therapies, but environmental supports and services with the classrooms will be necessary on an ongoing basis for many kids.

You still refuse to say exactly what “environmental support” do you want for kids who are assaulting teachers and other students. Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

MCPS is an educational organization. It is not a medical organization that can treat children for medical problems, physical or mental.

When your child breaks a leg, you take them to a doctor.

When your child has a mental illness, repeatedly assaulting others, you take them to a doctor.

It’s that simple. If parents grossly neglect their basic parenting responsibilities, the legal system gets involved, and finds alternative care for your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP but same boat. It's not fair when the parents of the terrible and dangerous child have all the power, threaten to sue, whatever. The rest of the parent and affected, threatened teachers should be able to assemble and fight back.

Unfortunately it's hard to get any information because of all the protections on these little (degenerate) miners.

Before anyone goes off on me, this kid assaulted a teacher.

Nine times out of ten, the problem is the school, not the parents.

My perspective is as an MCPS parent and an education attorney. Parents of disruptive kids don't have "all the power." Schools can move over their objections and mostly schools win due process hearings. Disruptive kids stay in general education classrooms mostly because it's cheaper. That's the reason.

+1 My kid was the "disruptive boy" in K and 1st a decade ago. Our efforts, including providing all medical and other paperwork regarding his AuDHD (several opinions to be sure and prove to school), to shift him to a more appropriate classroom environment and/or school were met with full resistance by the school administrators. It was only after we engaged expensive legal and advocacy professionals that the school team even considered and lifted a finger to begin an evaluation for an IEP (which they had declined and we did not know any better at the time to ask in writing) and potential programming change.

So yes, it was far cheaper to have him pester everyone in the class and be sent to the office, nearly every day, than follow the law and provide him with access to a free and appropriate education. And, et the rest of the classmates learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

MCPS is an educational organization. It is not a medical organization that can treat children for medical problems, physical or mental.

When your child breaks a leg, you take them to a doctor.

When your child has a mental illness, repeatedly assaulting others, you take them to a doctor.

It’s that simple. If parents grossly neglect their basic parenting responsibilities, the legal system gets involved, and finds alternative care for your child.

So ignorant. Please educate yourself. Just like an office bldg. may not be a doctor, it is still required to meet ADA standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

MCPS is an educational organization. It is not a medical organization that can treat children for medical problems, physical or mental.

When your child breaks a leg, you take them to a doctor.

When your child has a mental illness, repeatedly assaulting others, you take them to a doctor.

It’s that simple. If parents grossly neglect their basic parenting responsibilities, the legal system gets involved, and finds alternative care for your child.

So ignorant. Please educate yourself. Just like an office bldg. may not be a doctor, it is still required to meet ADA standards.

Exactly which ADA standard mandates that violent kids should be allowed to assault teachers and other kids in the classroom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

MCPS is an educational organization. It is not a medical organization that can treat children for medical problems, physical or mental.

When your child breaks a leg, you take them to a doctor.

When your child has a mental illness, repeatedly assaulting others, you take them to a doctor.

It’s that simple. If parents grossly neglect their basic parenting responsibilities, the legal system gets involved, and finds alternative care for your child.

So ignorant. Please educate yourself. Just like an office bldg. may not be a doctor, it is still required to meet ADA standards.

Exactly which ADA standard mandates that violent kids should be allowed to assault teachers and other kids in the classroom?

Anyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can give the school good reasons not to place your child in the same class with this one ever again, that's it.

As a teacher, I recommend that you email the principal a blow by blow daily and ask your child be moved. CC the area supe on each email.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP but same boat. It's not fair when the parents of the terrible and dangerous child have all the power, threaten to sue, whatever. The rest of the parent and affected, threatened teachers should be able to assemble and fight back.

Unfortunately it's hard to get any information because of all the protections on these little (degenerate) miners.

Before anyone goes off on me, this kid assaulted a teacher.

Nine times out of ten, the problem is the school, not the parents.

My perspective is as an MCPS parent and an education attorney. Parents of disruptive kids don't have "all the power." Schools can move over their objections and mostly schools win due process hearings. Disruptive kids stay in general education classrooms mostly because it's cheaper. That's the reason.

+1 My kid was the "disruptive boy" in K and 1st a decade ago. Our efforts, including providing all medical and other paperwork regarding his AuDHD (several opinions to be sure and prove to school), to shift him to a more appropriate classroom environment and/or school were met with full resistance by the school administrators. It was only after we engaged expensive legal and advocacy professionals that the school team even considered and lifted a finger to begin an evaluation for an IEP (which they had declined and we did not know any better at the time to ask in writing) and potential programming change.

So yes, it was far cheaper to have him pester everyone in the class and be sent to the office, nearly every day, than follow the law and provide him with access to a free and appropriate education. And, et the rest of the classmates learn.

It’s often NOT the school — and definitely not the teachers — trying to keep violent kids in class. It’s the supervisors in MCPS Central SpEd dept that are refusing to provide help or even 1:1 for these kids. We have months and even years of documentation for MULTIPLE violent kids at our school that we have been advocating to receive placements in specialized programs. Students and teachers have been assaulted repeatedly and MCPS refuses to provide the support these kids desperately need. I agree this is often a medical issue but when parents are unable or unwilling to advocate for their kids, what options are available for the schools? Teachers are burnt out and the other students are traumatized.

I don’t believe anyone is trying to push out all students with disabilities. As a teacher, I advocate for each of my students to receive the support they need to succeed. Unfortunately, MCPS continues to gaslight everyone involved.

[Anonymous]

No one needs to “advocate” for a child who is medically ill. If parent is unable or unwilling to make a medical appointment for their sick child, the state can and will appoint a responsible guardian.

21:07 is lying again.

Anyone can report parental negligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this isn't a parenting problem, this is a school problem. MCPS refuses to identify and properly serve kids with disabilities, particularly emotional or behavioral issues.

You can't sue to fix this problem for someone else's child, but if you are the parent of the disruptive child you will probably have to sue to get an appropriate public or private placement and MCPS will fight you every step.

MCPS is an educational organization. It is not a medical organization that can treat children for medical problems, physical or mental.

When your child breaks a leg, you take them to a doctor.

When your child has a mental illness, repeatedly assaulting others, you take them to a doctor.

It’s that simple. If parents grossly neglect their basic parenting responsibilities, the legal system gets involved, and finds alternative care for your child.

So ignorant. Please educate yourself. Just like an office bldg. may not be a doctor, it is still required to meet ADA standards.

Exactly which ADA standard mandates that violent kids should be allowed to assault teachers and other kids in the classroom?

Zero, obviously.