What’s the point of redshirting when it cancels out the pride factor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid had adhd and dyslexia. You’re da*n right we red-shirted. They had absolutely no advantage being older in the grade. Struggle, struggle, struggle. But thanks for the derision!

I don't think OP was thinking about your kid when they posted.

DCUMs anti-redshirters are anti-social and hyper-competitive. There is absolutely no question in my mind that OP is thinking about kids like PPs. I’ve watched the casual cruelty of DCUM anti-redshirters too many times over the years. They delight in bullying children.

Also, I didn’t redshirt, although that should not matter.

Literally nobody cares about some special needs child being held back a year.

Nobody.

My kid had no diagnosis when we made the decision to hold him back. He was diagnosed with autism several years later. So was the decision not ok at first and then it became acceptable? Is it only acceptable if I prove his diagnosis?

If you don’t see it before age 3 then it’s not autism. Get another opinion.

What used to be called Asperger’s is now diagnosed as Autism. These are high functioning kids who have lackluster social skills, but it’s not obvious until they’re older because they’re not really far behind socially when they’re little. The gap between their social skills and their peer’s gets wider as they get older. Girls, especially, get later diagnoses because they tend to have stronger social skills than boys when they’re very young.

That’s often times SCD, but misdiagnosed as ASD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If I was going to start a school I would open it year round and have multiple time options for all units on the syllabus. Every child has the option of completing the grade syllabus from and until the birthday of the minimum to maximum age

Eg 17-19 for 12th grade 16- 18 for 11th grade ect.

That way everyone can redshirt and the standard of each class is risen since all the kids have proactively volunteered to be there ( at least compared to the current inflexible system)

I have an even better idea. Let parents decide what’s best for their kids and don’t worry about the birthday of other children. Problem solved.

Middle class parent of white summer born boys: I have the right to remove the disadvantage/ add an advantage by changing my son’s status from being young in the grade for old and everybody else’s gets the same choice or voice the impact of that choice for the other kids.

Yes. You don’t have any say in other parents decisions. You can voice whatever you want, take it to the teacher, administrators etc with any specific complaint. I’m certain complaining about other kids birthday won’t be received favorably, although I’m really curious how you think it impacts your kid.

[Anonymous]

Our local schools had a date of December 31 until around the year 2000. Parents with kids born in July or August would look ridiculous holding them back. The girls always went on time. Some boys were held back for not being ready.

NAEP graphs track test scores starting on the 70s for American schools.

The highest recorded score in math was 285 in 2012. The highest score recorded for reading was 263 in also in 2012..

The most recent math score was 271 in 2022. In reading, the most recent score is 256 in 2022.

With so many parents starting their kids later and later entering Kindergarten or First Grade you would think scores would increase. Instead they dropped from the peak in 2012 and have yet to make any major improvements

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that kids who are older generally do better in school and end up with better jobs. But the whole point of getting good grades and having a good job is to have something to be proud of, and outperforming kids a year younger than you is nothing to be proud of.

The point is rubbing the success of my child in the face of other parents that were too dumb to redshirt their kids when countless studies show it’s a MAJOR ADVANTAGE for grades and career. I relish their envious looks and snide comments, it just proves I did the RIGHT THING and they were just sheep following stupid rules. Nothing they have compares to the success of my child, while theirs is embarrassingly stupid and can barely keep up with school work, this year and the next year, all the way to COMMUNITY COLLEGE, while mine will be targeting IVY”s.

OUTPERFORMING kids a year younger is so much better than being a LOSER amongst kids your own age. Nobody will interview a Harvard graduate and ask how old they were when they went to freaking KINDERGARTEN!

OP, if you’re one of those parents sorry, NOT sorry!

I don't actually care about redshirting, especially because usually it's done because child has a developmental delay of some kind and of course I would never begrudge doing what is right to help a child with special needs, but my kid is the youngest in the grade and is at the top of her class. You are vastly overstating the benefits of redshirting, which are marginal at best, and far less important than things like parents' level of education, SES level, and willingness to invest those resources in your kid. Also just a kid's natural intelligence level and predisposition to learning. Redshirting is not going to get your kid into Harvard if he wouldn't have gotten in without it. You know that, right?

Redshirting is NOT not get him into Harvard either.

You profess that you don’t care while posting about how redshirting cancels the pride factor and badmouthing kids and families that redshirt. Sounds like green envy to me, but that’s fine, I’m used to it.

It’s true, classes move too slow for my kid, that’s why I asked the teacher to differentiate and give him worksheets above grade. I bet you hate that too! Tough luck!

My kids special need is to be the best and brightest in his grade, there, I said it.

Mine too and one if the youngest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that kids who are older generally do better in school and end up with better jobs. But the whole point of getting good grades and having a good job is to have something to be proud of, and outperforming kids a year younger than you is nothing to be proud of.

The point is rubbing the success of my child in the face of other parents that were too dumb to redshirt their kids when countless studies show it’s a MAJOR ADVANTAGE for grades and career. I relish their envious looks and snide comments, it just proves I did the RIGHT THING and they were just sheep following stupid rules. Nothing they have compares to the success of my child, while theirs is embarrassingly stupid and can barely keep up with school work, this year and the next year, all the way to COMMUNITY COLLEGE, while mine will be targeting IVY”s.

OUTPERFORMING kids a year younger is so much better than being a LOSER amongst kids your own age. Nobody will interview a Harvard graduate and ask how old they were when they went to freaking KINDERGARTEN!

OP, if you’re one of those parents sorry, NOT sorry!

I don't actually care about redshirting, especially because usually it's done because child has a developmental delay of some kind and of course I would never begrudge doing what is right to help a child with special needs, but my kid is the youngest in the grade and is at the top of her class. You are vastly overstating the benefits of redshirting, which are marginal at best, and far less important than things like parents' level of education, SES level, and willingness to invest those resources in your kid. Also just a kid's natural intelligence level and predisposition to learning. Redshirting is not going to get your kid into Harvard if he wouldn't have gotten in without it. You know that, right?

Why couldn’t you never begrudge doing what’s right to help a child, period? With or without special needs. The fact that you’re qualifying that statement shows just how scummy and sleazy you are.

The problem is most aren’t doing it for sn and thise that are are not in private services. They just hope they will catch up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting only matters in two scenarios.

1. A kid on the margins who might get cut but is redshirted and makes a team. A dumb reason to delay a year of social and educational development in my book. More appropriate if other factors also at play (e.g., social or educational struggles).

Not really fair to kids who get cut but the solution should really be just more rec sports especially for older kids and young adults.

2. Uber elite athlete in high school or college strategically planning for D1. Whether it’s worth it or not depends on the kid and his goals. Very small number of people.

Really sporty but not uber elite kids can actually benefit from playing older kids. Think of the kid that makes varsity as a sophomore or something. Many of these kids are chomping at the bit to play up when younger, not get held back.

I have family members who were “Uber elite” and D1 and D2 athletes. Two were nationally ranked in top ten lacrosse. One was born in April. He went to an additional year at a prep school before D1 college. The other was born in October. He repeated a year in second grade for learning disabilities. He was recruited for football but his learning disabilities were so bad that he turned it down. He learned a trade.

One female started basketball in 9th grade only because her mother made her do an activity. She’s 5’11” so that got her on varsity. She was born in March so no problems there. She’s in college now and doesn’t play.

Athletes are all over the place in terms of birthdays but I doubt too many of their parents held them back for sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that kids who are older generally do better in school and end up with better jobs. But the whole point of getting good grades and having a good job is to have something to be proud of, and outperforming kids a year younger than you is nothing to be proud of.

The point is rubbing the success of my child in the face of other parents that were too dumb to redshirt their kids when countless studies show it’s a MAJOR ADVANTAGE for grades and career. I relish their envious looks and snide comments, it just proves I did the RIGHT THING and they were just sheep following stupid rules. Nothing they have compares to the success of my child, while theirs is embarrassingly stupid and can barely keep up with school work, this year and the next year, all the way to COMMUNITY COLLEGE, while mine will be targeting IVY”s.

OUTPERFORMING kids a year younger is so much better than being a LOSER amongst kids your own age. Nobody will interview a Harvard graduate and ask how old they were when they went to freaking KINDERGARTEN!

OP, if you’re one of those parents sorry, NOT sorry!

I don't actually care about redshirting, especially because usually it's done because child has a developmental delay of some kind and of course I would never begrudge doing what is right to help a child with special needs, but my kid is the youngest in the grade and is at the top of her class. You are vastly overstating the benefits of redshirting, which are marginal at best, and far less important than things like parents' level of education, SES level, and willingness to invest those resources in your kid. Also just a kid's natural intelligence level and predisposition to learning. Redshirting is not going to get your kid into Harvard if he wouldn't have gotten in without it. You know that, right?

Redshirting is NOT not get him into Harvard either.

You profess that you don’t care while posting about how redshirting cancels the pride factor and badmouthing kids and families that redshirt. Sounds like green envy to me, but that’s fine, I’m used to it.

It’s true, classes move too slow for my kid, that’s why I asked the teacher to differentiate and give him worksheets above grade. I bet you hate that too! Tough luck!

My kids special need is to be the best and brightest in his grade, there, I said it.

Mine too and one if the youngest.

Then why are you here BADMOUTHING kids that were held back? It does not compute! I seriously doubt that your kid is one of the best and brightest. In fact I think it’s a summer child that is doing poorly in school and you can’t stand when redshirt kids are doing great. I know my kid is better than yours, you know how? Because a bright 6 year old is BETTER than a bright 5 year old!

The best thing is there’s NOTHING you can do except whine about it, while my kid DESTROYS your and your kids self esteem.

[Anonymous]

There’s no point in trying to explain anything to you if you think pride is the only point of having a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our local schools had a date of December 31 until around the year 2000. Parents with kids born in July or August would look ridiculous holding them back. The girls always went on time. Some boys were held back for not being ready.

NAEP graphs track test scores starting on the 70s for American schools.

The highest recorded score in math was 285 in 2012. The highest score recorded for reading was 263 in also in 2012..

The most recent math score was 271 in 2022. In reading, the most recent score is 256 in 2022.

With so many parents starting their kids later and later entering Kindergarten or First Grade you would think scores would increase. Instead they dropped from the peak in 2012 and have yet to make any major improvements

This is a well known trend and has been extensively studied by academics. It is most likely tied to the effects of the No Child Left Behind law and the swing toward standardized testing and « teaching to the test » that was first implemented in 2000. It has nothing to do with redshirting and the changes were seen across all states regardless of cutoffs. Of all the things that impact children’s outcomes, redshirting is not a statistically important one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that kids who are older generally do better in school and end up with better jobs. But the whole point of getting good grades and having a good job is to have something to be proud of, and outperforming kids a year younger than you is nothing to be proud of.

The point is rubbing the success of my child in the face of other parents that were too dumb to redshirt their kids when countless studies show it’s a MAJOR ADVANTAGE for grades and career. I relish their envious looks and snide comments, it just proves I did the RIGHT THING and they were just sheep following stupid rules. Nothing they have compares to the success of my child, while theirs is embarrassingly stupid and can barely keep up with school work, this year and the next year, all the way to COMMUNITY COLLEGE, while mine will be targeting IVY”s.

OUTPERFORMING kids a year younger is so much better than being a LOSER amongst kids your own age. Nobody will interview a Harvard graduate and ask how old they were when they went to freaking KINDERGARTEN!

OP, if you’re one of those parents sorry, NOT sorry!

I don't actually care about redshirting, especially because usually it's done because child has a developmental delay of some kind and of course I would never begrudge doing what is right to help a child with special needs, but my kid is the youngest in the grade and is at the top of her class. You are vastly overstating the benefits of redshirting, which are marginal at best, and far less important than things like parents' level of education, SES level, and willingness to invest those resources in your kid. Also just a kid's natural intelligence level and predisposition to learning. Redshirting is not going to get your kid into Harvard if he wouldn't have gotten in without it. You know that, right?

Redshirting is NOT not get him into Harvard either.

You profess that you don’t care while posting about how redshirting cancels the pride factor and badmouthing kids and families that redshirt. Sounds like green envy to me, but that’s fine, I’m used to it.

It’s true, classes move too slow for my kid, that’s why I asked the teacher to differentiate and give him worksheets above grade. I bet you hate that too! Tough luck!

My kids special need is to be the best and brightest in his grade, there, I said it.

Mine too and one if the youngest.

Then why are you here BADMOUTHING kids that were held back? It does not compute! I seriously doubt that your kid is one of the best and brightest. In fact I think it’s a summer child that is doing poorly in school and you can’t stand when redshirt kids are doing great. I know my kid is better than yours, you know how? Because a bright 6 year old is BETTER than a bright 5 year old!

The best thing is there’s NOTHING you can do except whine about it, while my kid DESTROYS your and your kids self esteem.

No, they are just older. My kid did algebra in 6th and calc bd in 10th. How about yours? A 5 year old in the same class achieving the same grades and similar work means the younger child is more capable and brighter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that kids who are older generally do better in school and end up with better jobs. But the whole point of getting good grades and having a good job is to have something to be proud of, and outperforming kids a year younger than you is nothing to be proud of.

It's easy to forget they're a year younger than you when you're in the same grade.

For my August birthday kid, no one is a year younger. Many of the kids are a few weeks or a few months younger. The youngest kid in the class is a late June birthday, so there is less than a year between the oldest and the youngest.

Your kid doesn't have any July, August, or September "on time" birthdays in their class? Wow. That seems odd since there are plenty of summer birthdays.

My kids went to kindergarten when they were:

1. 5 years, 8 months (late December birthday)
2. 4 years, 11 months (mid September birthday)
3. 5 years, 1 month (late July birthday)
4. 5 years, 7 months (early January birthday)

No. We are at a private school. The official cut off is September 1, but the school prefers kids with August birthdays and boys with July birthdays to start late. Occasionally there will be a July girl who starts. It all works out and I think it benefits all the kids not to have young boys in the early grades because they tend to be squirmy and disruptive. I say that as the mom of three squirmy boys.

Why don’t they have the cutoff be July 31st if they prefer kids with August birthdays not start on time?

[Anonymous]

I agree, OP. I’ve always thought it was weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that kids who are older generally do better in school and end up with better jobs. But the whole point of getting good grades and having a good job is to have something to be proud of, and outperforming kids a year younger than you is nothing to be proud of.

It's easy to forget they're a year younger than you when you're in the same grade.

For my August birthday kid, no one is a year younger. Many of the kids are a few weeks or a few months younger. The youngest kid in the class is a late June birthday, so there is less than a year between the oldest and the youngest.

Your kid doesn't have any July, August, or September "on time" birthdays in their class? Wow. That seems odd since there are plenty of summer birthdays.

My kids went to kindergarten when they were:

1. 5 years, 8 months (late December birthday)
2. 4 years, 11 months (mid September birthday)
3. 5 years, 1 month (late July birthday)
4. 5 years, 7 months (early January birthday)

No. We are at a private school. The official cut off is September 1, but the school prefers kids with August birthdays and boys with July birthdays to start late. Occasionally there will be a July girl who starts. It all works out and I think it benefits all the kids not to have young boys in the early grades because they tend to be squirmy and disruptive. I say that as the mom of three squirmy boys.

Why don’t they have the cutoff be July 31st if they prefer kids with August birthdays not start on time?

Sounds like a bad school if they cannot handle kids who are age appropriate for the grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our local schools had a date of December 31 until around the year 2000. Parents with kids born in July or August would look ridiculous holding them back. The girls always went on time. Some boys were held back for not being ready.

NAEP graphs track test scores starting on the 70s for American schools.

The highest recorded score in math was 285 in 2012. The highest score recorded for reading was 263 in also in 2012..

The most recent math score was 271 in 2022. In reading, the most recent score is 256 in 2022.

With so many parents starting their kids later and later entering Kindergarten or First Grade you would think scores would increase. Instead they dropped from the peak in 2012 and have yet to make any major improvements

This is a well known trend and has been extensively studied by academics. It is most likely tied to the effects of the No Child Left Behind law and the swing toward standardized testing and « teaching to the test » that was first implemented in 2000. It has nothing to do with redshirting and the changes were seen across all states regardless of cutoffs. Of all the things that impact children’s outcomes, redshirting is not a statistically important one.

Ok but what was the point of creating new cutoff dates where children are entering school much later? It’s not redshirting I’m talking about, it’s the schools changing their cutoff dates where children are starting school up to a year later than they used to.

These test scores have been given for 55 years. I understand they might have peaked with No Child Left Behind but they went down after 2012. With children being older starting school you would think the 3rd grade testing grades would improve but they haven’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our local schools had a date of December 31 until around the year 2000. Parents with kids born in July or August would look ridiculous holding them back. The girls always went on time. Some boys were held back for not being ready.

NAEP graphs track test scores starting on the 70s for American schools.

The highest recorded score in math was 285 in 2012. The highest score recorded for reading was 263 in also in 2012..

The most recent math score was 271 in 2022. In reading, the most recent score is 256 in 2022.

With so many parents starting their kids later and later entering Kindergarten or First Grade you would think scores would increase. Instead they dropped from the peak in 2012 and have yet to make any major improvements

This is a well known trend and has been extensively studied by academics. It is most likely tied to the effects of the No Child Left Behind law and the swing toward standardized testing and « teaching to the test » that was first implemented in 2000. It has nothing to do with redshirting and the changes were seen across all states regardless of cutoffs. Of all the things that impact children’s outcomes, redshirting is not a statistically important one.

Ok but what was the point of creating new cutoff dates where children are entering school much later? It’s not redshirting I’m talking about, it’s the schools changing their cutoff dates where children are starting school up to a year later than they used to.

These test scores have been given for 55 years. I understand they might have peaked with No Child Left Behind but they went down after 2012. With children being older starting school you would think the 3rd grade testing grades would improve but they haven’t.

The age and test scores are not the issue, the curriculum is where they dumbed down things, got rid of homework, reading books, textbooks, etc. kids should be required to be enrolled in K at age 5. If they are not enrolled at age 5, they should go into the age appropriate grade when enrolled, so directly into 1st. It’s the parents holding back.