The End of College Life - Wash U Prof's article in the Atlantic

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but I just don't buy it. In 1997, the most expensive four-year private colleges cost $100,000 for everything. That's $199,000 in today's dollars. Today, the most expensive privates are $360,000. Put another way, if college was as expensive in 1997 as it was today, it would have been $180,000--80% more expensive. Where has this 80% increase in cost gone? Not to faculty--tenured faculty positions have been stable or even cut almost everywhere, replaced by temps. My daughter is a Freshman at a T10 research university and *all* of her STEM profs have been temps so far. The money has gone to three things: Administrative bloat; athletics; and buildings and amenities. It will be hard, but undergraduate colleges can easily find the solution to their problems by cutting the bureaucracy (Deans, Assistant Deans, VPs, etc.), freezing the absurd athletics programs that serve as a weird pipeline for rich kids whose parents can afford travel sports, and stopping new building construction. Kids will be fine--in fact they'll be much better off. They don't need to be bubble wrapped; they can live in crappy dorms like we did and be fine; and parents might realize that the whole travel sports thing for hopes of a D1 admit is an absurd, irrational, and deeply unfair money grab. A correction is badly needed, and college will be better for it when it gets back to its core mission: Education and becoming an adult through controlled adversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All Americans - liberal, conservative, and apolitical - should be very concerned about the future of college given how Trump & Vance are attacking it. It is arson with no architecture. They don't have a vision for fixing it, they just want it to die.

I am paying careful attention and am very happy with the changes. These are much needed.

The people who are unhappy are those who are content to receive funds without needing to demonstrate any results.

Now the fun part - the supposed liberals who are "open" to new ideas and alternative viewpoints, think none of the above is an "acceptable" viewpoint. Because the above must have been written by a MAGA advocate and therefore not a valid view.

-A moderate democrat who voted for Kamala

My kid is a PhD student whose grant was frozen. The grant was for specific research in their lab. They would need to demonstrate results. I’m not sure what you mean by not demonstrating results? Can you elaborate?

I am genuinely interested in your viewpoint. I do want to say, though, that if results are your concern, there would be ways to enforce that other than burning the whole system down. I cannot express to you how much this Administration’s actions are destroying America. Scientific research. My kid is researching in an area that this administration should favor, so I can only imagine what it is like for non-favored areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All Americans - liberal, conservative, and apolitical - should be very concerned about the future of college given how Trump & Vance are attacking it. It is arson with no architecture. They don't have a vision for fixing it, they just want it to die.

I am paying careful attention and am very happy with the changes. These are much needed.

The people who are unhappy are those who are content to receive funds without needing to demonstrate any results.

Now the fun part - the supposed liberals who are "open" to new ideas and alternative viewpoints, think none of the above is an "acceptable" viewpoint. Because the above must have been written by a MAGA advocate and therefore not a valid view.

-A moderate democrat who voted for Kamala

Researchers have to demonstrate results. Often they are contractually obligated to publish their results no matter what. They don’t have to demonstrate success. That is an important concept in science and engineering. You can’t guarantee success, nor should you, when trialing new concepts in basic and applied research.

An epic cope!

This is ridiculous. Do you think all experiments work out the way a scientist expects/wants them to?

+1 and scientists learn even when experiments don’t support the hypothesis.

Of course in a lot of fields they won’t be able to publish unless their results fit the prevailing orthodoxy.

Please provide some support for this. If this is true, why not just defund those projects? Why defund health and energy research at the same time?

[Anonymous]

Why are we talking about lazy rivers? Federal grants were not funding them. If you ate stupid enough to let your kid choose a college based on a lazy River, then you get what you deserve and you will pay the high tuition to fund it (or your taxes will in whatever state has public schools with such things). The topic is changing college by damaging the life blood of the university: research and academics.

[Anonymous]

The problem isn’t lazy rivers , it’s lazy, dishonest researchers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are we talking about lazy rivers? Federal grants were not funding them. If you ate stupid enough to let your kid choose a college based on a lazy River, then you get what you deserve and you will pay the high tuition to fund it (or your taxes will in whatever state has public schools with such things). The topic is changing college by damaging the life blood of the university: research and academics.

Oh /-they do lazy rivers and resort quality dorm rooms and frats/sororities …drinking culture.

We are forgetting the academics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an excellent and well written article and worth reading the entire piece in the Atlantic.

That said, I'm depressed for my rising senior kid who will experience the nadir of Trump & Vance's assault on universities. Vance has been giving speeches showing his contempt for our colleges for years prior to becoming Trump's sidekick, even though he benefitted enormously from his experience at Yale including making contact with Amy Chua (who got his book published which led to a movie deal and millions of dollars) and Peter Thiel (who spoke at Yale's Federalist Society which Vance was a member and got hired post-grad for his job). Vance is a hypocrite and Trump is just lacking empathy for anyone other than himself.

Vance is definitely a hypocrite and so is Trump.

Trump went to Penn.
Vance went to Yale.
Usha went to Yale.
Ivanka went to Penn.
Don Jr went to Penn.

Basically, college for us and not for you.

Elon’s son is at Brown
Barron is at NYU

Yep

[Anonymous]

I am genuinely sorry for this loss. I am sure there is also plenty of deserved research that will not be funded by the sledgehammer approach that Trump and Musk are taking.

My child is on the research path and my spouse was for sometime and now actually approves research funding from one of the federal agencies.

[Anonymous]

My point is that there is a lot of waste in many parts of the government and universities. As Charlie Munger says the most underestimated force in the universe is incentives. There is just no incentive in either the government or universities to be careful with money, that it is not being wasted. There was never any effort in the last several decades or ever to look into this. Even if there is effort, it is difficult to get anything done because of vested interests that stymie these initiatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The cost of College has gotten out of control. Many, even public institutions, at 40-90k with living expenses.
College degrees should be revamped, removing some non essential credits, reducing the term to a 3 yr degree(s).
I think the students will continue to be well rounded as they move on into their respective careers.
Just my two cents.

Totally agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we should adopt the European model of all schools being essentially commuter schools based in big cities and students living at home. Those from rural areas should get the doems but there should be no special prestige in dorm life.
I come from a country like this and there was no special desired social life in the dorms, or it included the kids who lived at home too.
Such a waste of parents money to think that dorm life is something of huge value.

Awful. I wouldn't want my kids doing that. It's basically like high school 2.0 in Europe.

I'm not sure that dorm life is a huge value, but I absolutely believe in going off to a college away from home for 4 years. If money is an issue, yes please go to a commuter college. Most mid sized or larger cities have a local college.

You are so ridiculous. It is not ‘awful’. Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a PhD student whose grant was frozen. The grant was for specific research in their lab. areas.

When money is limited, choices have to be made. The Universities will have to learn to do this. Hopefully they will be able to allocate limited resources to the right areas (not a given).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are we talking about lazy rivers? Federal grants were not funding them. If you ate stupid enough to let your kid choose a college based on a lazy River, then you get what you deserve and you will pay the high tuition to fund it (or your taxes will in whatever state has public schools with such things). The topic is changing college by damaging the life blood of the university: research and academics.

But they are funding them! Money is fungible. Also, federal student loans are helping students fund the additional cost of college that extras like lazy rivers cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is so much waste on the college campuses of today particularly those that do research. I live in a Division 1 college town and have friends that work for the university and rarely have to step foot on campus. A lot of my friends frequently travel around the world going to conferences.

How is that a waste?

Zoom in to a conference.
Read a published paper?

But you are also screaming that federal workers need to travel to offices to do their zooms and read their papers, am I right?

[Anonymous]

The obvious magas on her are just making stuff up. So annoying to take this serious work so lightly.