The End of College Life - Wash U Prof's article in the Atlantic

[Anonymous]

I'm a foreign research scientist living in the US, who went to undergrad in Europe.

To be entirely frank, ever since I've lived in the US, I've been astonished at the amount of money that just gets thrown away on frivolities in every aspect of American life. It's a country of consumerist excess to a degree that is unfathomable in most other countries. US college campuses are no exception: yes, there are classes and professors and research. But there are also luxury facilities, for performances, sports and recreation, etc. I am all for investing in the serious things, that down the road will cure cancer, find sustainable and affordable energy sources, or other huge benefits of research. But massive sports facilities? Subsidizing all kinds of clubs and activities and trips? Enormous manicured campuses and tons of wasted space in buildings that translate to enormous A/C bills? That kind of luxury doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. Are we sure this is where we want to spend money?

My son attends a private university in the US, and will continue some his grad work in Europe. He's headed towards a European institute that world-renowned in its specialty. But the lecture halls will be 19th century (no A/C). The living situation will be bare-bones compared to his fancy dorm here. No sports or clubs. No sprawling lawns. The education, however, is top-notch, at a reasonable price for grad school.

I think Americans can rethink some of their expenses without reducing the pace of academic progress or impeding research in any way.

[Anonymous]

A dumb America is the way those in charge want it so they can continue to dismantle the country without any watchdogs or anyone smart enough to see history repeating itself (history --as in other fascist regimes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All Americans - liberal, conservative, and apolitical - should be very concerned about the future of college given how Trump & Vance are attacking it. It is arson with no architecture. They don't have a vision for fixing it, they just want it to die.

I am paying careful attention and am very happy with the changes. These are much needed.

The people who are unhappy are those who are content to receive funds without needing to demonstrate any results.

Now the fun part - the supposed liberals who are "open" to new ideas and alternative viewpoints, think none of the above is an "acceptable" viewpoint. Because the above must have been written by a MAGA advocate and therefore not a valid view.

-A moderate democrat who voted for Kamala

Researchers have to demonstrate results. Often they are contractually obligated to publish their results no matter what. They don’t have to demonstrate success. That is an important concept in science and engineering. You can’t guarantee success, nor should you, when trialing new concepts in basic and applied research.

An epic cope!

This is ridiculous. Do you think all experiments work out the way a scientist expects/wants them to?

That is not at all the point and I think you know it.

Do not want to reveal any details or give any info to DOGE however tangential. Believe me I am a moderate democrat. No love for MAGA.

When there is federal funding deadline to use up the funds, we end up giving research money in the last 2 months to whatever ridiculous proposal comes along to use up these funds or we do not get the baseline funding for next year. This happens year after year. We see the results and they are pretty much a waste of time. My BIL is a professor at a university and there are few of these there as well.

So, for two months out of 12, some proposals may get funded that otherwise might not. And, some of these proposals might be ridiculous for some audiences. Yep, let’s burn it all down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All Americans - liberal, conservative, and apolitical - should be very concerned about the future of college given how Trump & Vance are attacking it. It is arson with no architecture. They don't have a vision for fixing it, they just want it to die.

I am paying careful attention and am very happy with the changes. These are much needed.

The people who are unhappy are those who are content to receive funds without needing to demonstrate any results.

Now the fun part - the supposed liberals who are "open" to new ideas and alternative viewpoints, think none of the above is an "acceptable" viewpoint. Because the above must have been written by a MAGA advocate and therefore not a valid view.

-A moderate democrat who voted for Kamala

Look the MAGA troll that always claims to be a dem is back. And as unconvincing as always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A dumb America is the way those in charge want it so they can continue to dismantle the country without any watchdogs or anyone smart enough to see history repeating itself (history --as in other fascist regimes).

+100

And those of us with degrees in biotech/immunology that know RFK jr is bad, bad for public health. Kids with measles now also have toxic livers from ingesting Vitamin A as he has been pushing as an alternative 'natural' cure for measles. We ERADICATED small pox, polio and measles and now he wants it all back...and then some. God forbid the next pandemic and with the dismantling of USAID the work they did to stop disease spread and malaria...is now unbridled and we are going to see more malaria popping up over here.

They don't want science or college or education for the masses. They want them dumb and pliable and obedient.

[Anonymous]

I think lots of parents will be upset when they realize how this will play out for their kids: college fees have to be increased even further than they are, each lecture class has more students crammed into them than they already are, smaller lecture classes get cancelled, study abroad and university-funded internships are cancelled, and sports that aren't self-funding are cancelled as well.

Our kids will end up paying more fees to get less resources and opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If federal funding of research was being used to subsidize all this stuff, doesn’t this just prove that it was being misused? Why not just end the research that was being funded?

Do you have an experience at a research university? Clearly not.

DP. I guess you are unaware that University research is important for technological and scientific advancement. It is much less expensive to carry out research at the university level because you have graduate students to do the work. You are really reaching to find examples of mismanagement (i.e. fraud). Most people that have gone to college know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All Americans - liberal, conservative, and apolitical - should be very concerned about the future of college given how Trump & Vance are attacking it. It is arson with no architecture. They don't have a vision for fixing it, they just want it to die.

I am paying careful attention and am very happy with the changes. These are much needed.

The people who are unhappy are those who are content to receive funds without needing to demonstrate any results.

Now the fun part - the supposed liberals who are "open" to new ideas and alternative viewpoints, think none of the above is an "acceptable" viewpoint. Because the above must have been written by a MAGA advocate and therefore not a valid view.

-A moderate democrat who voted for Kamala

Researchers have to demonstrate results. Often they are contractually obligated to publish their results no matter what. They don’t have to demonstrate success. That is an important concept in science and engineering. You can’t guarantee success, nor should you, when trialing new concepts in basic and applied research.

An epic cope!

Being allowed to fail is an important part of scientific advancement. Trying things that don’t work is learning. This type of fundamental research has brought us, well, everything.

Isn’t it true that researchers have not been required to publish negative results for federally subsidized research?

IIRC, a California prof/dr. decided to withhold results from a study on trans care bc results didn’t fit her hypothesis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All Americans - liberal, conservative, and apolitical - should be very concerned about the future of college given how Trump & Vance are attacking it. It is arson with no architecture. They don't have a vision for fixing it, they just want it to die.

I am paying careful attention and am very happy with the changes. These are much needed.

The people who are unhappy are those who are content to receive funds without needing to demonstrate any results.

Now the fun part - the supposed liberals who are "open" to new ideas and alternative viewpoints, think none of the above is an "acceptable" viewpoint. Because the above must have been written by a MAGA advocate and therefore not a valid view.

-A moderate democrat who voted for Kamala

Researchers have to demonstrate results. Often they are contractually obligated to publish their results no matter what. They don’t have to demonstrate success. That is an important concept in science and engineering. You can’t guarantee success, nor should you, when trialing new concepts in basic and applied research.

An epic cope!

This is ridiculous. Do you think all experiments work out the way a scientist expects/wants them to?

Maybe in the hard sciences. Do you really think social science researchers are actually looking for the truth? They aren’t guiding the results to match up with their political leanings? All these thousands of education journal articles & public schools are getting WORSE?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a foreign research scientist living in the US, who went to undergrad in Europe.

To be entirely frank, ever since I've lived in the US, I've been astonished at the amount of money that just gets thrown away on frivolities in every aspect of American life. It's a country of consumerist excess to a degree that is unfathomable in most other countries. US college campuses are no exception: yes, there are classes and professors and research. But there are also luxury facilities, for performances, sports and recreation, etc. I am all for investing in the serious things, that down the road will cure cancer, find sustainable and affordable energy sources, or other huge benefits of research. But massive sports facilities? Subsidizing all kinds of clubs and activities and trips? Enormous manicured campuses and tons of wasted space in buildings that translate to enormous A/C bills? That kind of luxury doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. Are we sure this is where we want to spend money?

My son attends a private university in the US, and will continue some his grad work in Europe. He's headed towards a European institute that world-renowned in its specialty. But the lecture halls will be 19th century (no A/C). The living situation will be bare-bones compared to his fancy dorm here. No sports or clubs. No sprawling lawns. The education, however, is top-notch, at a reasonable price for grad school.

I think Americans can rethink some of their expenses without reducing the pace of academic progress or impeding research in any way.

I don’t consider A/C a frivolity. I don’t consider that lack of A/C to be fiscally responsible.

Clubs are largely funded through student fundraisers or sponsorships. They aren’t subsidized. The students work for that. A small grant may be available for a specific initiative but that’s not guaranteed and requires an application, etc.

Sports facilities, yes, ridiculous. But the amount of money those sports programs generate is also ridiculous through ticket prices and merchandising. That’s probably not a common experience at European universities. It’s a whole other ballgame, so to speak.

I’ve not seen a nice dorm room. I’m sure they exist.

I work at a R1 university. Some of the facilities are very nice largely because they are new. The land wasn’t even a part of the US when some of the European universities were already in action. Apples to oranges here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is so much waste on the college campuses of today particularly those that do research. I live in a Division 1 college town and have friends that work for the university and rarely have to step foot on campus. A lot of my friends frequently travel around the world going to conferences.

How is that a waste?

Zoom in to a conference.
Read a published paper?

[Anonymous]

This is an excellent and well written article and worth reading the entire piece in the Atlantic.

That said, I'm depressed for my rising senior kid who will experience the nadir of Trump & Vance's assault on universities. Vance has been giving speeches showing his contempt for our colleges for years prior to becoming Trump's sidekick, even though he benefitted enormously from his experience at Yale including making contact with Amy Chua (who got his book published which led to a movie deal and millions of dollars) and Peter Thiel (who spoke at Yale's Federalist Society which Vance was a member and got hired post-grad for his job). Vance is a hypocrite and Trump is just lacking empathy for anyone other than himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All Americans - liberal, conservative, and apolitical - should be very concerned about the future of college given how Trump & Vance are attacking it. It is arson with no architecture. They don't have a vision for fixing it, they just want it to die.

I am paying careful attention and am very happy with the changes. These are much needed.

The people who are unhappy are those who are content to receive funds without needing to demonstrate any results.

Now the fun part - the supposed liberals who are "open" to new ideas and alternative viewpoints, think none of the above is an "acceptable" viewpoint. Because the above must have been written by a MAGA advocate and therefore not a valid view.

-A moderate democrat who voted for Kamala

Look the MAGA troll that always claims to be a dem is back. And as unconvincing as always.

This is why I am really really really loving what Trump is doing. I am going to really really really enjoy the next 4 years.

Knowing you guys are going to cry cry cry, is only going to make each day, really really really bright! Loving it!

Looking forward to a 3rd term and 8 more years!

[Anonymous]

“As for future college students and their parents, the campus experience they expect—the one that generations of Americans took for granted—is no longer guaranteed.”

Holy fork did I just become MAGA???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All Americans - liberal, conservative, and apolitical - should be very concerned about the future of college given how Trump & Vance are attacking it. It is arson with no architecture. They don't have a vision for fixing it, they just want it to die.

I am paying careful attention and am very happy with the changes. These are much needed.

The people who are unhappy are those who are content to receive funds without needing to demonstrate any results.

Now the fun part - the supposed liberals who are "open" to new ideas and alternative viewpoints, think none of the above is an "acceptable" viewpoint. Because the above must have been written by a MAGA advocate and therefore not a valid view.

-A moderate democrat who voted for Kamala

Look the MAGA troll that always claims to be a dem is back. And as unconvincing as always.

This is why I am really really really loving what Trump is doing. I am going to really really really enjoy the next 4 years.

Knowing you guys are going to cry cry cry, is only going to make each day, really really really bright! Loving it!

Looking forward to a 3rd term and 8 more years!

Is owning the libs really the most important thing in the world to you? You know there are a lot of people being really hurt by these decisions, right? Not just Democrats.