Do parents realize they are rotting their own and their children’s minds with screens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the OP and think this is a huge, societal problem. And the defensiveness on this thread is huge and telling. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions. Raising kids and teaching kids are both incredibly hard. Screens can provide some relief. So this needs to be a bigger solution than just “do better.”

Personally, I struggle with this immensely. I’m doing okay with my kids so far (they’re in preschool, which makes it easier): screens on long plane or train rides, screens when they’re sick, and if we’re in a social situation at another family’s house and they turn on the TV, we don’t love it but whatever. Plus I know they get some screens at school. But beyond that, there’s no screens at home. So they routinely go weeks with zero screens on our watch. But I really struggle with screen time for myself. It’s just SO easy to pull your phone out when you have some downtime. It’s such a time waster, it’s bad for my attention and my mental health. I’ve recently installed the app “Opal” which blocks most apps and all websites on my phone after a cumulative hour of use each day. That’s helping, I’d recommend it for other folks who struggle with this.

Societal wide, I’d like to see:

-Way less screens in school. Get the smart boards out of preschool classrooms! No videos for recess when it’s raining - just let the kids play inside.

-More support for parents generally. Our society sucks at this. The more we can support families with paid leave, flexible work schedules, free PK, etc, the easier it is for parents and the less they’ll need to rely on screens.

-More tolerance in public spaces for kids. Sometimes kids cry, tantrum, misbehave, are loud. If this is “unacceptable” then the only answer is screens. My kids are very well behaved. But - sometimes these things happen, it’s part of learning. I address it immediately, but it’s still part of life.

-More acceptance of very small physical risks to kids. What does that mean? More independence. Kids walking to the park and playing unsupervised at younger ages. Kids taking public transit by themselves. Kids bike riding to each other’s houses. Kids using real saws and hammers to build stuff. Kids going to the store themselves. These risks are comically small, and yet we are scared so we limit them, and that leads to more nice, “safe,” screen time inside.

I’d be interested in other ideas from folks, particularly from parents of older kids.

It's not defensiveness. It's calling out OP's lack of self-awareness and fixation on judging parents, which is not helpful.

The best way to stop screen time in kids is to reduce our own screen time as adults. I doubt any of us can honestly say we aren't addicted to our devices. They were designed to be addictive. Edtech corruption means school systems are addicted to screens too. Kids literally cannot escape screens in our society as it is.

So instead of trying to shame parents for "rotting their kids' brains" or proposing general, unactionable solutions, let's focus on the source of the problem - the devices themselves. Please feel free to share the best tools and strategies for reducing your own screen time and that of your kids. My current strategy is to keep my phone in a different room when I am home. We also recently got a music player (think Toniebox/Yoto) that doesn't require a phone to operate.

Also please feel free to share how teachers are using screens in the classroom, to what extent their employers are requiring to use them (feel free to name and shame school systems) so parents can advocate against those requirements, and to what extent teachers feel compelled to use screens for other reasons as well as workarounds.

[Anonymous]

Sorry but nobody on DCUM has the right to judge other people's screen use.

You know we're all addicted here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree 100%. But of course you’ve offended the hoards of parents that are too lazy to parent their kids. Teachers see it too. I mentioned to my kids seconds grade teacher during the course of the parent teacher conference in the fall that my kid doesn’t have a tablet and isn’t allowed video games and the teacher said “well there you go, that’s why he’s so well behaved and doing so well.”

You realize the teacher was giving you the verbal equivalent of a pat on the head like the needy little lapdog you are, don’t you?

Wow wow wow this topic really hits a nerve for some people!

Yes. They are positively RAGING at the very notion that they bear any responsibility for the screen addled kids they’re raising. Astonishing.

My kids use screens all the time, but I’m not remotely concerned. I am concerned about people like you, however. You are clearly deeply unhappy, and no amount of keeping your kids off of screens while you angrily fat finger your way through yet another post in DCUM is going to fix that, I’m afraid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I generally agree with the OP, I think it’s also bad when parents are completely stressed out and killing themselves to keep their kids entertained without screens. I know some parents who are constantly running their kid from one place to the next or coming up with all kinds of things to fill up their kids’ time, making themselves crazy in the process. Everyone needs some down time and it’s ok for kids to be bored sometimes. I am more of an “everything in moderation” person where screens are allowed at times on weekends. No personal screens on weekdays but TV is on the background for part of most evenings. The parents running themselves ragged during the week and then all weekend to keep their kids entertained without screens seem so exhausted. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing and I suspect it isn’t for most families. It’s easy to judge from a snapshot.

I agree with you even though we differ. I can't stand the sound of TV on in the background, for example, but it doesn't bother me that you do it. Have my kids always been well behaved in school? Absolutely. Have we ever allowed devices when we're at a restaurant? Nope. Have we allowed them to use them when we fly across and the country? Yep, and we have since they were little. Do they have iPads now in 5th grade? They do (with screen time and restrictions on apps). Do they know how to interact with adults in real life? They sure do. Do we spend time as a family without any screens regularly? Yes, in fact they have been begging us to play cards every night since we did so over winter break and they now choose that at night versus their iPads (screen time is on by the time we're done).

Everything in moderation combined with doing what works for your kids is key. There is no reason to completely eliminate screens and I actually think you're doing a disservice by doing that at a certain point. My kids practice math reflex skills on their iPads, they engage and play games together, they video chat and laugh with their friends, they edit videos and photos and share them with us, etc. The world is technologically based now, like it or not, so learning how to live with and moderate this stuff is key.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The defensiveness of so many PPs speaks volumes. I work at a public school and can assure you that our society is INDEED circling the drain based on what I see day in and day out. Kids have NO attention span and scores keep dropping — yet multiple teachers have taught the content in multiple modalities, key concepts are posted on the wall, and in some cases the tests are open notebook! Their school laptops absolutely need to go, too! What a problem we have on our hands. I realize correlation does not prove causation, but I’m sure it’s an “all of the above” situation, where both parents AND kids are on screens while brains are developing and none of what kids actually need is happening.

Even if you feel you or your kids overuse screens, you can start somewhere. Enforce time limits by age as recommended by experts. Read to your children daily. Do screen free activities or days together…increase these over time. Designate screen-free spaces like the dinner table. Delay phone ownership for kids as long as possible. Limit social media use. No screens in kids’ bedrooms. How I wish everyone realized the education landscape. It’s bad!

And some experts are finding symptoms of ADHD in some kids can lessen/disappear if ALL screens are removed. Wow. Definitely worthy of so much more research. Rather than getting defensive, we could all benefit from greater self-reflection on this front.

Our kid's teachers use massive screens in the classroom, and have the kids play computer games during the school day. In kindergarten. It sounds like you are more interested in judging than in self reflection. Be the change you want to see!

PP here. I do try to be that change — in how I work with your kids and with my own kids. That is my entire point. Another defensive post trying to blame someone else. There are some bad teachers, but most really care and work tirelessly. They certainly know the curriculum and they try to reduce screentime as much as possible. But tech use is encouraged in our district. We need to rethink who we elect to the school board and their priorities. But it can’t all happen at school. Building an attention span starts at home. I’m not judging; I’m pointing out my perspective based on my job. Computer games are blocked (other than educational things like quizlet and kahoot), so if your kid is playing them, they are getting links and codes from other students to get around the wall.

Screens are *completely unnecessary* in schools. You’re a judgmental hag and YOU are responsible for “rottings kids’ brains” every single time you fire up a screen in class or tell the students to do so. But you are too lazy and incompetent to change, so you try to blame parents for their kids using screens when you REQUIRE their kids to use screens.

Idiot.

^^^ The same type of disrespectful attitude we get from many kids at school, too (speaking of being the change…). Funny that you think teachers have the choice to not use screens. I happen to agree they are unnecessary, but all standardized tests are now online. How would you have students complete these?

Maybe teachers should get a freaking backbone and stand up to these idiotic rules instead of abdicating all of their responsibility and pointing fingers at the parents? Just a thought.

(I am not surprised your students don’t respect you. Kids have extremely well calibrated hypocrisy meters.)

It's effectively impossible for teachers to go against the Department of Education or local school boards. Many teachers would love to go back to textbooks and get rid of all screens. Unfortunately, that's not possible. And it's parents that vote for the school boards and the Department of Education officials that are mandating screens. If you don't want screens in schools, vote differently. But you won't. You will always vote for progressives and more tech and then complain when the results are predictably catastrophic.

What was that, dear? Admitting it’s the schools’ fault while continuing to blame parents, are you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the OP and think this is a huge, societal problem. And the defensiveness on this thread is huge and telling. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions. Raising kids and teaching kids are both incredibly hard. Screens can provide some relief. So this needs to be a bigger solution than just “do better.”

Personally, I struggle with this immensely. I’m doing okay with my kids so far (they’re in preschool, which makes it easier): screens on long plane or train rides, screens when they’re sick, and if we’re in a social situation at another family’s house and they turn on the TV, we don’t love it but whatever. Plus I know they get some screens at school. But beyond that, there’s no screens at home. So they routinely go weeks with zero screens on our watch. But I really struggle with screen time for myself. It’s just SO easy to pull your phone out when you have some downtime. It’s such a time waster, it’s bad for my attention and my mental health. I’ve recently installed the app “Opal” which blocks most apps and all websites on my phone after a cumulative hour of use each day. That’s helping, I’d recommend it for other folks who struggle with this.

Societal wide, I’d like to see:

-Way less screens in school. Get the smart boards out of preschool classrooms! No videos for recess when it’s raining - just let the kids play inside.

-More support for parents generally. Our society sucks at this. The more we can support families with paid leave, flexible work schedules, free PK, etc, the easier it is for parents and the less they’ll need to rely on screens.

-More tolerance in public spaces for kids. Sometimes kids cry, tantrum, misbehave, are loud. If this is “unacceptable” then the only answer is screens. My kids are very well behaved. But - sometimes these things happen, it’s part of learning. I address it immediately, but it’s still part of life.

-More acceptance of very small physical risks to kids. What does that mean? More independence. Kids walking to the park and playing unsupervised at younger ages. Kids taking public transit by themselves. Kids bike riding to each other’s houses. Kids using real saws and hammers to build stuff. Kids going to the store themselves. These risks are comically small, and yet we are scared so we limit them, and that leads to more nice, “safe,” screen time inside.

I’d be interested in other ideas from folks, particularly from parents of older kids.

Your attitude is an even bigger societal problem: “I have a very strong opinion on a topic about which I know absolutely nothing, and I feel the need to broadcast that ill-informed opinion to the entire world.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes me sad is seeing a toddler pushed in a stroller holding a phone or iPad rather than looking at the world around them. I take a bus to work and there is often a nanny with a 2 yr old and 3 yr old waiting for the same bus. If we have more than a minute wait, she gives the older one her phone. Once we're on the bus, the kids are on the phone together. Why they can't play I Spy or practice counting, I don't know.

I waited in a 20 minute line Sunday with a 5 yr old, and we practiced days of the week, talked about rain and puddles and clouds, steps to making a pie, the types of things people go to the post office for, etc. I think he can do this because he's always done it - he's never had a phone or iPad in the stroller or car or highchair.

What makes me sad is all the judgements people like you give to everyone. We are such a polarized society of perfect people - "if-only-everyone-can-be-like-me people". Since you are perfect, there is no room for growth and introspection. Your kids, I'm sure, are perfect too. Did you flashcard how to be perfect while you were in line at the post office? It might be on that kindergarten readiness assessment.

Imagine a world where we empathize with people and understand events from multiple perspectives, like maybe other people's perspectives..... the world would be a different place.

I don’t disagree with the stay in your lane idea here, but I do think a big reason our culture lacks empathy is because of screens. Many teenagers and young adults raised on screens do not know how to talk to others - they are so used to talking from behind a keyboard.

They actually do. Its just different and has nothign to do with empathy. My kids were reading by age 3. Was yours? And, yes they had screens in moderation. We never ever used a babysitter and so yes, sometimes we'd go out and had the kids iPads so we could get a break and talk. They were with me 24-7. If you are working and only have an hour or two a day with them, yes, that makes sense but some of our kids get our full attention all day every day.

What’s your point though? The pp is saying heavy screen use can cause antisocial behavior/anxiety. You’re saying your kids had screens in moderation and are fine. Do you even disagree?

What about the latchkey kids who would come home from school, eat crappy food, and watch TV all day until their parents got home at night?

My siblings and I grew up this way and it encouraged independence creativity and confidence. We are all very highly educated and successful and avoid screen addiction for our children. It’s not a helpful or relevant analogy in anyway.

I think you need to read up on and understand correlation and causation. Maybe that'll take you down a peg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the OP and think this is a huge, societal problem. And the defensiveness on this thread is huge and telling. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions. Raising kids and teaching kids are both incredibly hard. Screens can provide some relief. So this needs to be a bigger solution than just “do better.”

Personally, I struggle with this immensely. I’m doing okay with my kids so far (they’re in preschool, which makes it easier): screens on long plane or train rides, screens when they’re sick, and if we’re in a social situation at another family’s house and they turn on the TV, we don’t love it but whatever. Plus I know they get some screens at school. But beyond that, there’s no screens at home. So they routinely go weeks with zero screens on our watch. But I really struggle with screen time for myself. It’s just SO easy to pull your phone out when you have some downtime. It’s such a time waster, it’s bad for my attention and my mental health. I’ve recently installed the app “Opal” which blocks most apps and all websites on my phone after a cumulative hour of use each day. That’s helping, I’d recommend it for other folks who struggle with this.

Societal wide, I’d like to see:

-Way less screens in school. Get the smart boards out of preschool classrooms! No videos for recess when it’s raining - just let the kids play inside.

-More support for parents generally. Our society sucks at this. The more we can support families with paid leave, flexible work schedules, free PK, etc, the easier it is for parents and the less they’ll need to rely on screens.

-More tolerance in public spaces for kids. Sometimes kids cry, tantrum, misbehave, are loud. If this is “unacceptable” then the only answer is screens. My kids are very well behaved. But - sometimes these things happen, it’s part of learning. I address it immediately, but it’s still part of life.

-More acceptance of very small physical risks to kids. What does that mean? More independence. Kids walking to the park and playing unsupervised at younger ages. Kids taking public transit by themselves. Kids bike riding to each other’s houses. Kids using real saws and hammers to build stuff. Kids going to the store themselves. These risks are comically small, and yet we are scared so we limit them, and that leads to more nice, “safe,” screen time inside.

I’d be interested in other ideas from folks, particularly from parents of older kids.

Your attitude is an even bigger societal problem: “I have a very strong opinion on a topic about which I know absolutely nothing, and I feel the need to broadcast that ill-informed opinion to the entire world.”

DP. Everyone can, and should, have an opinion about children, who are our children's peers and our future.

Phone zombies and blob children who cannot interact socially or read (https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1253729.page and https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1246273.page) are an issue for all of us, even parents of preschool kids.

[Anonymous]

I'm a NP. What I don't get is why you think posting a condescending screed on the internet is going to do anything. Have we learned nothing from decades of people arguing about fat people on the internet?

If shame, absolutism and yelling on the internet solved ANY problem, we would have at least solved obesity. Don't you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a NP. What I don't get is why you think posting a condescending screed on the internet is going to do anything. Have we learned nothing from decades of people arguing about fat people on the internet?

If shame, absolutism and yelling on the internet solved ANY problem, we would have at least solved obesity. Don't you think?

Discussion makes people aware of issues. There seem to be a lot of people, at least on this thread, that have never considered that screens are harmful to adults and children. Over time, they will start to consider if they agree that it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a NP. What I don't get is why you think posting a condescending screed on the internet is going to do anything. Have we learned nothing from decades of people arguing about fat people on the internet?

If shame, absolutism and yelling on the internet solved ANY problem, we would have at least solved obesity. Don't you think?

Discussion makes people aware of issues. There seem to be a lot of people, at least on this thread, that have never considered that screens are harmful to adults and children. Over time, they will start to consider if they agree that it is.

Let's discuss the negatives effects of screens by *checks notes* arguing with each other on screens.

[Anonymous]

I don’t feel like wading through 8 pages of this but kids should not be on screens. Period, full stop. The evidence is enormous that it’s harmful for them and should be delayed as long as possible. If your kid is not given screens to begin with, they will learn to be bored and how to occupy their own time. If they’re already addicted to screens, you can still break the addiction. My kids can get through a restaurant meal, a boring sibling activity, a plane ride, even a 9 hour car ride without a single screen. On a long car ride they will talk to us, play games, listen to music, listen to a book, and eventually just stare out the window and sit with their own thoughts. On the weekends and evenings they occupy their time playing by themselves or playing with each other. One of them is extremely challenging and SN and we still manage this.

People on here being so defensive are defensive because they know how bad it is for their kids. Either that or they are too stupid to know what the evidence shows or are just recklessly ignorant.

Yes parents need a break sometimes, so put them in front of a movie if you have to. Hire a babysitter. Ask a friend to come over. There are so many options other than screens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a NP. What I don't get is why you think posting a condescending screed on the internet is going to do anything. Have we learned nothing from decades of people arguing about fat people on the internet?

If shame, absolutism and yelling on the internet solved ANY problem, we would have at least solved obesity. Don't you think?

Discussion makes people aware of issues. There seem to be a lot of people, at least on this thread, that have never considered that screens are harmful to adults and children. Over time, they will start to consider if they agree that it is.

Let's discuss the negatives effects of screens by *checks notes* arguing with each other on screens.

My adult addiction to screens is exactly evidence of why I don’t want to subject my child’s developing mind to the dopamine addiction machine of a phone/tablet. By your logic should adult smokers get their kids hooked young too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t feel like wading through 8 pages of this but kids should not be on screens. Period, full stop. The evidence is enormous that it’s harmful for them and should be delayed as long as possible. If your kid is not given screens to begin with, they will learn to be bored and how to occupy their own time. If they’re already addicted to screens, you can still break the addiction. My kids can get through a restaurant meal, a boring sibling activity, a plane ride, even a 9 hour car ride without a single screen. On a long car ride they will talk to us, play games, listen to music, listen to a book, and eventually just stare out the window and sit with their own thoughts. On the weekends and evenings they occupy their time playing by themselves or playing with each other. One of them is extremely challenging and SN and we still manage this.

People on here being so defensive are defensive because they know how bad it is for their kids. Either that or they are too stupid to know what the evidence shows or are just recklessly ignorant.

Yes parents need a break sometimes, so put them in front of a movie if you have to. Hire a babysitter. Ask a friend to come over. There are so many options other than screens.

I’m the previous poster of the above and to be clear I am against phone/tablets. Tv/movies in moderation do not create addiction or change the way the brain works or expose children to dangerous real life pedophiles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the OP and think this is a huge, societal problem. And the defensiveness on this thread is huge and telling. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions. Raising kids and teaching kids are both incredibly hard. Screens can provide some relief. So this needs to be a bigger solution than just “do better.”

Personally, I struggle with this immensely. I’m doing okay with my kids so far (they’re in preschool, which makes it easier): screens on long plane or train rides, screens when they’re sick, and if we’re in a social situation at another family’s house and they turn on the TV, we don’t love it but whatever. Plus I know they get some screens at school. But beyond that, there’s no screens at home. So they routinely go weeks with zero screens on our watch. But I really struggle with screen time for myself. It’s just SO easy to pull your phone out when you have some downtime. It’s such a time waster, it’s bad for my attention and my mental health. I’ve recently installed the app “Opal” which blocks most apps and all websites on my phone after a cumulative hour of use each day. That’s helping, I’d recommend it for other folks who struggle with this.

Societal wide, I’d like to see:

-Way less screens in school. Get the smart boards out of preschool classrooms! No videos for recess when it’s raining - just let the kids play inside.

-More support for parents generally. Our society sucks at this. The more we can support families with paid leave, flexible work schedules, free PK, etc, the easier it is for parents and the less they’ll need to rely on screens.

-More tolerance in public spaces for kids. Sometimes kids cry, tantrum, misbehave, are loud. If this is “unacceptable” then the only answer is screens. My kids are very well behaved. But - sometimes these things happen, it’s part of learning. I address it immediately, but it’s still part of life.

-More acceptance of very small physical risks to kids. What does that mean? More independence. Kids walking to the park and playing unsupervised at younger ages. Kids taking public transit by themselves. Kids bike riding to each other’s houses. Kids using real saws and hammers to build stuff. Kids going to the store themselves. These risks are comically small, and yet we are scared so we limit them, and that leads to more nice, “safe,” screen time inside.

I’d be interested in other ideas from folks, particularly from parents of older kids.

It's not defensiveness. It's calling out OP's lack of self-awareness and fixation on judging parents, which is not helpful.

The best way to stop screen time in kids is to reduce our own screen time as adults. I doubt any of us can honestly say we aren't addicted to our devices. They were designed to be addictive. Edtech corruption means school systems are addicted to screens too. Kids literally cannot escape screens in our society as it is.

So instead of trying to shame parents for "rotting their kids' brains" or proposing general, unactionable solutions, let's focus on the source of the problem - the devices themselves. Please feel free to share the best tools and strategies for reducing your own screen time and that of your kids. My current strategy is to keep my phone in a different room when I am home. We also recently got a music player (think Toniebox/Yoto) that doesn't require a phone to operate.

Also please feel free to share how teachers are using screens in the classroom, to what extent their employers are requiring to use them (feel free to name and shame school systems) so parents can advocate against those requirements, and to what extent teachers feel compelled to use screens for other reasons as well as workarounds.

I’m not the PP on this thread but I disagree with this more recent poster. “The best way to stop screen addiction” of kids is not to address parent addiction (though that may help with modeling) but to take the screens away from the kids. It’s actually so easy to solve! Just take away the screens and be firm about it!

I am judgmental about this - to me this is like being judgmental about a parent giving their kid a cigarette at 5. Some things are so obviously harmful they should not be given to kids. I am actually shocked how many parents at my kid’s “top” school allow screens for their young kids. And the parents who allow it create pressure on other parents who don’t want to allow it. So judgment seems warranted here.