Any predictions on divisions next year - MCSL
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Anonymous
The RFTW article is now a little obsolete. The league reserves the right to place a new team in the league in a division besides at the very bottom of O, but will only do that if the team comes from another league and has established times. Most recently they did this when Arora Hills came over from the GGSL. It isn't fun for a new team to the league with 150 swimmers to have a totally uncompetitive season winning every meet by 250. Although that doesn't stop the RMSC Rays. |
Anonymous
It may not be fun, but is it fair to teams like Woodcliffe and who started in O and climbed the ranks through those non-competitive seasons to now let Arora Hills, who I’ve never heard of, butt the line? |
Anonymous
Ah, true. I was really getting at that Divisonals doesn't count. |
Anonymous
Seems like a lot of things don't really count. A team can lose most of its A meets, yet still move up a division? Doesn't seem fair. |
Anonymous
DP - or, on the flip side, go undefeated and remain in the same division (happening to us)? Also doesn't make sense, nor is it particularly fair. |
Anonymous
Agreed. You win, you move up. You lose, you move down. Virtual team meets seem like a "do over" of the season. |
Anonymous
I'm the PP you're quoting and yes, exactly, to the bolded! These dual meets are won and lost by whole teams, not median times. |
Anonymous
There is no perfect way to do this. Whether it’s age ups, age outs, 2 vs 3 swimmers per age group, it’s a difficult science to find a better way than the current math to assign divisions. Far from perfect but the best system we have. I think 2 swimmers is necessary because many teams don’t field a 3rd swimmer in each event Looking at 2 test cases. Rock Creek dominated J and move up to H. If we said you every division winner moves up 1 by default, they would be in I and too good for I. They would likely dominate again and then move up to a division but it would take a very long time to get in the appropriate division. While Kenmont has gone undefeated in I, they don’t fair well in the virtual meet against the league as a whole. This means 1 of 3 things 1. They are losing in the virtual meet to teams below division I, like Rock Creek, preventing them from moving up 2. They may be a better team scoring 3 swimmers per meet in the duals vs the 2 in the virtual meet 3. They may have won dual meets in I, but have some division I teams that were better in the aggregate/median across 5 weeks. |
Anonymous
| So nice meeting my fellow Eldwick parents tonight at the divisional "Movin On Up" party. Big things are coming our way! |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
The bolded language ensures that teams can't recruit top swimmers in order to jump 2-3 divisions. With all due respect, none of that matters. Your analysis presumes the validity of using virtual meets (i.e. an algorithm). Virtual meets completely undermine all of the hard work that teams put in during the season. You win or lose as a team. Otherwise, what's the point of keeping score and winning an "A" meet? |
Anonymous
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To add, during the Covid era, the NCAA decided that virtual meets to count as bona fide competition.
https://swimswam.com/ncaa-rules-dont-allow-virtual-meets-to-count-as-ncaa-bona-fide-competition/ There's something to be said for ACTUAL competition and the variations that come with it. |
Anonymous
Sorry, corrected. |
Anonymous
Your point is taken. But at this moment Potomac, Bethesda, Rockville, and Stonebridge are all in A or B. I guess it would prevent the next Potomac from making a rapid climb, but the recruiting issue is mostly isolated to the top 2 divisions and MCSL chooses not to enforce its rules even though it knows very well which teams are the offenders. |
Anonymous
True, but they won't because everyone knows each other at that level. For a lower ranked team to move up, it may be necessary for parents to hire a really good coach (going rate for summer swim seems to be $15k-$20k). If a team had an endowment and wealthy alumni (like a university), this could happen and that coach him or herself would be a major draw for swimmers. Some teams that are moving up have invested in their pool facilities, offering not only a nice pool, but also amenities to encourage more membership and parental involvement. Case in point, Somerset has a really nice "cafe" area with tables, umbrellas, shade, power outlets for laptops, etc... more like a country club pool than a neighborhood pool. Parents like to hang out there with other parents, can do remote work, get a cup of coffee/cold drink, and the like. By comparison, many other pools look like they haven't been updated since the 1980s, with chipped concrete, old furniture, torn/broken umbrellas, lack of shade, gross locker rooms, and the like. |