Hope for DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has actually been an interesting discussion with some thoughtful comments.

But the problem remains the same - most people with options leave DCPS. They'll give it a try in early elementary, but then they're done. One can say whatever about race, but no one gives a damn about larger cultural issues when it comes to the wellbeing of their own child. It's disheartening to read that there are parents who are extremely exclusionary when it comes to race. And that drives the exodus, which of course is exactly what such families want.

I don't think this is true. I think most parents stay in DCPS, statistically speaking.

No they don’t. As someone has said, about 50% of the kids in the city don’t attend DCPS. But the number is actually much higher because it doesn’t take into account the families who move to the burbs for the schools.

Check out the grade progression ratios here: https://edscape.dc.gov/page/grade-progression-ratio

Citywide 5th to 6th progression has consistently been the lowest, but it was still 94% in SY22-23. 8th to 9th is actually exceeds 100% (presumably because of private school students moving into application schools?).

Yes, and as that report shows, half the kids are in charters, not DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has actually been an interesting discussion with some thoughtful comments.

But the problem remains the same - most people with options leave DCPS. They'll give it a try in early elementary, but then they're done. One can say whatever about race, but no one gives a damn about larger cultural issues when it comes to the wellbeing of their own child. It's disheartening to read that there are parents who are extremely exclusionary when it comes to race. And that drives the exodus, which of course is exactly what such families want.

Bold is the answer. Overwhelming majority of families place the top priority on their kid’s education and well being. This is true at the expense of all else. Those few parents here saying community trumps their kid are outliers.

DCPS has proven time and time again that they don’t care about all the kids. The higher performing kids will be “fine” which they equate as finishing school and going to any college which is a very low bar as the majority of resources go to the lowest performing.

Considering that most Americans don’t go to college, that’s not as low a bar as you think. It just might seem low in a city where a lot of people have a lot of fancy education.

To use a tired term, white parents in DCPS don’t feel like their children and their wants/needs are “centered” in DCPS. And yall are unaccustomed to that treatment and can’t stand it. Because everything has to be oriented around what you think is important, and if it isn’t, yall gonna try to change it so it is. Colonizer mindset on full display.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has actually been an interesting discussion with some thoughtful comments.

But the problem remains the same - most people with options leave DCPS. They'll give it a try in early elementary, but then they're done. One can say whatever about race, but no one gives a damn about larger cultural issues when it comes to the wellbeing of their own child. It's disheartening to read that there are parents who are extremely exclusionary when it comes to race. And that drives the exodus, which of course is exactly what such families want.

Bold is the answer. Overwhelming majority of families place the top priority on their kid’s education and well being. This is true at the expense of all else. Those few parents here saying community trumps their kid are outliers.

DCPS has proven time and time again that they don’t care about all the kids. The higher performing kids will be “fine” which they equate as finishing school and going to any college which is a very low bar as the majority of resources go to the lowest performing.

Agree with this completely -- parents of all races want to put their kids in the best possible school they can. There is an exception in early elementary when the stakes are low, but I have not met a family willing to make the sacrifice by middle school, and certainly not by high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, you are on to something. I mean this with no disrespect (I’m a white man) white families expect to be part of the majority and treated like their norms and expectations are majority (ie democratically rewarded) norms. In DC you can feel othered and exasperated that what you consider normal isn’t what’s happening.

This creates some bad outcomes. Self segregation. Concentrated radicalized poverty. But why do we have to just give up on integration because of the feeling of white people that we expect to be the majority culture? I feel like there’s some maturing that needs to happen to white people culturally. I mean Asian people in this country are othered every damn day. Black people are concentrated together because other people want them fully excluded from “their” spaces. We have to do better than this. And some of how we got to a bad place came from putting “our kids” (ourselves?) first.

It's less about being the minority and more about not wanting to send your kid to a failing school. By any metric you can find, almost every middle and high school in DC qualifies as failing. Parents who can't afford to live in the right neighborhood and strike out in the lottery opt for charters or move. You can call it self segregation, but black families who care about education make the same choices

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Yes, see this is my issue as a white parent. I don't think that the city sees my children as entitled to a good education. They see the DCPS job as primarily trying to decrease the achievement gap between black and white students and also meeting the educational needs of poor students in Wards 7 and 8.

Their obligation to my children is just as significant as the obligation to properly educate any other children in the city.

That said, they've been failing in their obligation to properly maintain school buildings for decades, and likely failing in many other ways.

I don't think this is actually true though I agree with you that DCPS is often more interested in appearing to be equitable than in actually education kids (any kids). This is not true of teachers but is often true of the district and the political leadership especially. It is frustrating.

I have always felt like the teachers in DCPS go above and beyond to educate my kids (who are white) and I have never gotten the sense that my kids are ignored in the classroom in favor of "decreasing the achievement gap."

However my kids attend a Title 1 elementary with a very high percentage of at risk kids (the vast majority of whom are black) and many of the school's resources are geared towards addressing the needs of kids in that category. Sometimes there are incidental benefits to my kids as a result (they get free aftercare for instance even though we'd happily pay for aftercare). But there are also funds that could go towards enrichment programs or other things my kids would benefit from (and that could also benefit at risk kids but it's harder to benefit from enrichment when you aren't getting your basic needs met). Instead these funds are often spent to try and meet those basic needs. But also -- these are Title 1 funds that are designated for that purpose. If the school was not Title 1 we'd have to raise all money for extra programming ourselves. As a middle class family (actual middle class not DCUm middle class) we don't have thousands of dollars sitting around to give to the school to pay for enrichment -- we actually do better just budgeting for enrichment ourselves where we can be thoughtfully frugal.

So when I see this complaint about how DCPS ignores the needs of white and upper income kids in order to artificially close the achievement gap it is hard for me to take them seriously. If you are upper income nothing is stopping you from providing enrichment to your kids yourself. And what is DCPS supposed to do just ignore the 45% of students who are designated at risk and genuinely need more help?

We will probably leave DCPS by middle either for a charter or leaving the district altogether because I can see how this focus on helping at risk kids will start to be something we can't compensate for at home by middle and high school. But I don't sit around shaking my fist at DCPS for it. The real issue is that the city has a lot of poverty and crime and kids suffer for it and schools are the place where city services can reach those kids and try to help. Unless you have some magical solution for endemic poverty and generational violence I am not sure you have a proposal that is goign to fix this situation beyond "I want my kid in advanced math in middle school."

Improvements generally happen incrementally, 1% at a time, not waiting for a solution that fixes everything all at once. Perhaps offering advanced middle school math is one of those incremental steps and better than the do nothing approach the PP is suggesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Sure but that's oversimplifying the issue. Anacostia and other EOTR neighborhoods are not 40% white, and AU Park is not 40% black. Unless you plan to bus kids all over the city, the neighborhood schools are not going to reflect the city average.

Can you explain how there is a school in Ward 1 with 4% Black students in this day and age?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are situations where a handful of “nice” mostly white parents individually requesting the rumored best teacher and/or to not be with certain classmates can in the aggregate lead to an inequitable class distribution. Why are most of the UMC students and room parent types in grade x all clustered with the fabulous Mr. So and So? Schools should say no to most requests.

Most principals do say no to such requests. It's really not a big thing.

At our WOTP DCPS elementary, the school very clearly states that it won't even entertain such classroom/teacher requests when parceling out student assignments for the next school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Sure but that's oversimplifying the issue. Anacostia and other EOTR neighborhoods are not 40% white, and AU Park is not 40% black. Unless you plan to bus kids all over the city, the neighborhood schools are not going to reflect the city average.

Can you explain how there is a school in Ward 1 with 4% Black students in this day and age?

Neighborhood schools are still a thing and most communities, rich and poor alike, support them over bussing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Sure but that's oversimplifying the issue. Anacostia and other EOTR neighborhoods are not 40% white, and AU Park is not 40% black. Unless you plan to bus kids all over the city, the neighborhood schools are not going to reflect the city average.

Can you explain how there is a school in Ward 1 with 4% Black students in this day and age?

Because most parents don't want their child sitting in an hour of traffic every day?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Sure but that's oversimplifying the issue. Anacostia and other EOTR neighborhoods are not 40% white, and AU Park is not 40% black. Unless you plan to bus kids all over the city, the neighborhood schools are not going to reflect the city average.

Can you explain how there is a school in Ward 1 with 4% Black students in this day and age?

Which school is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are situations where a handful of “nice” mostly white parents individually requesting the rumored best teacher and/or to not be with certain classmates can in the aggregate lead to an inequitable class distribution. Why are most of the UMC students and room parent types in grade x all clustered with the fabulous Mr. So and So? Schools should say no to most requests.

Most principals do say no to such requests. It's really not a big thing.

At our WOTP DCPS elementary, the school very clearly states that it won't even entertain such classroom/teacher requests when parceling out student assignments for the next school year.

I am sure some principals stick to that rule. I work at a highly regarded WOTP school and that is the rule as well. But I know parents have had their kids put in certain classes. Without any meaningful reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Sure but that's oversimplifying the issue. Anacostia and other EOTR neighborhoods are not 40% white, and AU Park is not 40% black. Unless you plan to bus kids all over the city, the neighborhood schools are not going to reflect the city average.

Can you explain how there is a school in Ward 1 with 4% Black students in this day and age?

Which school is that?

Oh wait -- I see. It's Oyster-Adams.

2 things: The school is, obviously, very diverse. It may be 4% Black, but it is not like it is 96% white! (which seems to be what you are implying)

Also, it's not even clear that it's about the racial composition of the neighborhood. Any idea how many IB Black families opt for Francis-Stevens instead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Sure but that's oversimplifying the issue. Anacostia and other EOTR neighborhoods are not 40% white, and AU Park is not 40% black. Unless you plan to bus kids all over the city, the neighborhood schools are not going to reflect the city average.

Can you explain how there is a school in Ward 1 with 4% Black students in this day and age?

Which school is that?

Oh wait -- I see. It's Oyster-Adams.

2 things: The school is, obviously, very diverse. It may be 4% Black, but it is not like it is 96% white! (which seems to be what you are implying)

Also, it's not even clear that it's about the racial composition of the neighborhood. Any idea how many IB Black families opt for Francis-Stevens instead?

Well, they just said the quiet part loud. Hispanic kids don't matter. Like most conversations about race in this country, it's only about black and white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are situations where a handful of “nice” mostly white parents individually requesting the rumored best teacher and/or to not be with certain classmates can in the aggregate lead to an inequitable class distribution. Why are most of the UMC students and room parent types in grade x all clustered with the fabulous Mr. So and So? Schools should say no to most requests.

Most principals do say no to such requests. It's really not a big thing.

At our WOTP DCPS elementary, the school very clearly states that it won't even entertain such classroom/teacher requests when parceling out student assignments for the next school year.

I am sure some principals stick to that rule. I work at a highly regarded WOTP school and that is the rule as well. But I know parents have had their kids put in certain classes. Without any meaningful reason.

Yes, this happens in our charter school. I hate it. Either your kid is in a class with all the well behaved kids of the involved parents or in a classroom with all of the challenging kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has actually been an interesting discussion with some thoughtful comments.

But the problem remains the same - most people with options leave DCPS. They'll give it a try in early elementary, but then they're done. One can say whatever about race, but no one gives a damn about larger cultural issues when it comes to the wellbeing of their own child. It's disheartening to read that there are parents who are extremely exclusionary when it comes to race. And that drives the exodus, which of course is exactly what such families want.

Bold is the answer. Overwhelming majority of families place the top priority on their kid’s education and well being. This is true at the expense of all else. Those few parents here saying community trumps their kid are outliers.

DCPS has proven time and time again that they don’t care about all the kids. The higher performing kids will be “fine” which they equate as finishing school and going to any college which is a very low bar as the majority of resources go to the lowest performing.

Considering that most Americans don’t go to college, that’s not as low a bar as you think. It just might seem low in a city where a lot of people have a lot of fancy education.

To use a tired term, white parents in DCPS don’t feel like their children and their wants/needs are “centered” in DCPS. And yall are unaccustomed to that treatment and can’t stand it. Because everything has to be oriented around what you think is important, and if it isn’t, yall gonna try to change it so it is. Colonizer mindset on full display.

I don't want my white kids wants or needs centered in their DCPS. As it stands I think the teachers do a great job meeting all the kids where they are at and academically I really do not have complaints. We are in elementary (Title 1 neighborhood school that is about 85% black) and I keep waiting for the academics to drop but they haven't. And my spouse and I are both academics who pay close attention.

If we have challenges they are all cultural and that's where this issue of "centering" I think is relevant. When we first started at this school (which is just our IB by right school) we really appreciated how much the school celebrates and reinforces black culture. Obviously we live in a predominantly black neighborhood and I think this is great. None of the black cultural events or celebrations bother me in the least.

But increasingly I don't really understand why we can't also be inclusive of other cultures at the school. There are students from European and Asian and Hispanic backgrounds. Would it be so bad to occasionally celebrate those cultures. And I think because of general suspicion and and negative attitudes about whiteness generally I don't think any celebration of European culture would be welcome. I don't know what to make of that. I come from a line of poor farmers in Ireland and Germany who fled poverty and oppression when they came to the US. There is rich cultural history in my background and I think of us as part of the American immigrant experience. And my spouse is Italian and Jewish. But it feels like there is no place for pride or celebration of any of that in my kid's school and that if we tried to express pride in it we would be seen as having a "colonizer mindset." Also speaking of colonizers our school does absolutely nothing to recognize or celebrate native culture in the US -- last year I suggested a visit to the American Indian museum for a field trip and it was roundly dismissed. There were also no events to celebrate AAPI even though the school has a number of Asian-American families. There was a small Day of the Dead Celebration organized by the Spanish teacher which was great but it's the first year it happened and I don't know if it will be repeated.

This is what bothers me when I'm told that I am trying to "center" my child when we ask for a more multicultural experience. I think the suspicion of multiculturalism and diversity as a virtue in itself is misguided and isn't really so much about fighting back against white supremacy but rather a reluctance to give up cultural dominance as the neighborhood and the school becomes more diverse.