Hope for DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Sure but that's oversimplifying the issue. Anacostia and other EOTR neighborhoods are not 40% white, and AU Park is not 40% black. Unless you plan to bus kids all over the city, the neighborhood schools are not going to reflect the city average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Except the percentage of DCPS students is actually 55% black and 17% white (Hispanic is 22% and the remaining categories are all less than 5%) so actually the demographics of schools make perfect sense in that context

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Yes, see this is my issue as a white parent. I don't think that the city sees my children as entitled to a good education. They see the DCPS job as primarily trying to decrease the achievement gap between black and white students and also meeting the educational needs of poor students in Wards 7 and 8.

Their obligation to my children is just as significant as the obligation to properly educate any other children in the city.

That said, they've been failing in their obligation to properly maintain school buildings for decades, and likely failing in many other ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Except the percentage of DCPS students is actually 55% black and 17% white (Hispanic is 22% and the remaining categories are all less than 5%) so actually the demographics of schools make perfect sense in that context

You're missing the point.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, after a long time as a parent in the system I definitely see the gentrifier (usually white) parent coming in to say they want to improve the schools is some serious bullshit.

Generally, the schools with low gentrifier attendance are not staffed by a bunch of knuckleheads. The teachers could teach your kid, if they had your kid in their class. So what the f is 'improving' the school, then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It feels so weird to say that DCPS "needs" white families. Yuck.

It does feel weird but if the goal is diverse schools then yes they "need" white families.

Here is a good place to note that diversity is not actually the goal of many of the non-white families in DCPS -- while white families in DCPS like the idea of sending their kids to diverse schools with plenty of non-white people not all black families dream of sending their kids to schools with a substantial percentage of white kids. Some black families are indifferent. Some are wary but generally see a benefit in more higher income students in a school in terms of the quality of education. But some are actually hostily towards it and worry that having more than 10-20% white families will change the culture of the school in a way that will diminish it as a place that black kids feel welcome and celebrated.

Understanding these attitudes is pretty central to any conversation about how we "improve" DCPS schools -- many white people enter DCPS with PK students and assume that everyone in the system wants the exact same things they do and that's just not the case. I would highly encourage anyone contemplating these issues to actually TALK to black DCPS families especially those who have sent generations of students to DCPS schools and have a different perspective on the city's public schools and their direction.

Very well said, and really does get at a core issue. I send my kid to a diverse elementary school in NE that is quickly transitioning away from being a predominantly black school, and the more I get to know other families at the school the more I realize that they do not actually see this diversity as a positive thing to be celebrated but rather a confusing and potentially threatening dynamic to be wary of. There's a lot of celebration of the diversity by the school, and everyone's heart is in the right place, but under the surface it feels fraught.

A lot of these discussions put way too much pressure on schools to be this great equalizer and fix the underlying systemic problems. It's hard enough to run a highly achieving school within the DCPS system, let alone ask the Principal / PTO / teachers to somehow alleviate these historic, structural tensions at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, after a long time as a parent in the system I definitely see the gentrifier (usually white) parent coming in to say they want to improve the schools is some serious bullshit.

Generally, the schools with low gentrifier attendance are not staffed by a bunch of knuckleheads. The teachers could teach your kid, if they had your kid in their class. So what the f is 'improving' the school, then?

I agree. The whole model where parents say "I'll improve the school by investing my time" implies way more impact of PTO volunteer hours than they actually have. Send your kids to a school or don't, but please don't assume the school needs you.

[Anonymous]

I honestly hate this entire debate as a white parent in the system. I feel like we are the villain no matter what we do. If I send my kid to a local public school, I'm a gentrifier. If I move and send my kids to an upper NW school, I'm segregating. And god help me if I put my kids in private. There is no "good" path so I've just given up trying. I'm sick of trying to treat my children's education like some sort of symbolic signifier of my morals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Yes, see this is my issue as a white parent. I don't think that the city sees my children as entitled to a good education. They see the DCPS job as primarily trying to decrease the achievement gap between black and white students and also meeting the educational needs of poor students in Wards 7 and 8.

Their obligation to my children is just as significant as the obligation to properly educate any other children in the city.

That said, they've been failing in their obligation to properly maintain school buildings for decades, and likely failing in many other ways.

I don't think this is actually true though I agree with you that DCPS is often more interested in appearing to be equitable than in actually education kids (any kids). This is not true of teachers but is often true of the district and the political leadership especially. It is frustrating.

I have always felt like the teachers in DCPS go above and beyond to educate my kids (who are white) and I have never gotten the sense that my kids are ignored in the classroom in favor of "decreasing the achievement gap."

However my kids attend a Title 1 elementary with a very high percentage of at risk kids (the vast majority of whom are black) and many of the school's resources are geared towards addressing the needs of kids in that category. Sometimes there are incidental benefits to my kids as a result (they get free aftercare for instance even though we'd happily pay for aftercare). But there are also funds that could go towards enrichment programs or other things my kids would benefit from (and that could also benefit at risk kids but it's harder to benefit from enrichment when you aren't getting your basic needs met). Instead these funds are often spent to try and meet those basic needs. But also -- these are Title 1 funds that are designated for that purpose. If the school was not Title 1 we'd have to raise all money for extra programming ourselves. As a middle class family (actual middle class not DCUm middle class) we don't have thousands of dollars sitting around to give to the school to pay for enrichment -- we actually do better just budgeting for enrichment ourselves where we can be thoughtfully frugal.

So when I see this complaint about how DCPS ignores the needs of white and upper income kids in order to artificially close the achievement gap it is hard for me to take them seriously. If you are upper income nothing is stopping you from providing enrichment to your kids yourself. And what is DCPS supposed to do just ignore the 45% of students who are designated at risk and genuinely need more help?

We will probably leave DCPS by middle either for a charter or leaving the district altogether because I can see how this focus on helping at risk kids will start to be something we can't compensate for at home by middle and high school. But I don't sit around shaking my fist at DCPS for it. The real issue is that the city has a lot of poverty and crime and kids suffer for it and schools are the place where city services can reach those kids and try to help. Unless you have some magical solution for endemic poverty and generational violence I am not sure you have a proposal that is goign to fix this situation beyond "I want my kid in advanced math in middle school."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the demographics of the city are 40% black and 40% white, then the public schools should reflect that. And they often don't.

Except the percentage of DCPS students is actually 55% black and 17% white (Hispanic is 22% and the remaining categories are all less than 5%) so actually the demographics of schools make perfect sense in that context

You're missing the point.

Which is...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I honestly hate this entire debate as a white parent in the system. I feel like we are the villain no matter what we do. If I send my kid to a local public school, I'm a gentrifier. If I move and send my kids to an upper NW school, I'm segregating. And god help me if I put my kids in private. There is no "good" path so I've just given up trying. I'm sick of trying to treat my children's education like some sort of symbolic signifier of my morals.

So, I feel you, but I feel like it's important to live my values. Not bumper sticker stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly hate this entire debate as a white parent in the system. I feel like we are the villain no matter what we do. If I send my kid to a local public school, I'm a gentrifier. If I move and send my kids to an upper NW school, I'm segregating. And god help me if I put my kids in private. There is no "good" path so I've just given up trying. I'm sick of trying to treat my children's education like some sort of symbolic signifier of my morals.

So, I feel you, but I feel like it's important to live my values. Not bumper sticker stuff.

DP but the challenge for me is when my values run up against my own kid's interest. I will just be totally honest and say that I think I was unrealistic and naive about my values before I had kids in the school system and I have considerably more sympathy for people I used to privately criticize for "abandoning local schools" or "being afraid of their kids going to school with poor kids" than I ever thought I would. It is more complex than I thought it was back then and I'm not embarassed to admit that it was appropriate to roll eyes and dismiss me back when I was a prospective PK parent who wanted to "live my values." I'm now a parent of middle elementary kids and I roll my eyes at former self every day. I didn't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, after a long time as a parent in the system I definitely see the gentrifier (usually white) parent coming in to say they want to improve the schools is some serious bullshit.

Generally, the schools with low gentrifier attendance are not staffed by a bunch of knuckleheads. The teachers could teach your kid, if they had your kid in their class. So what the f is 'improving' the school, then?

Actually, no. If the teacher tells all the grade-level students "I can't answer you're questions. I'm busy." while they work exclusively with the struggling students, then they are not teaching my child.

And before you tell me that's not how it works, that is *exactly* how it worked in two of my DD's core MS classes this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It feels so weird to say that DCPS "needs" white families. Yuck.

It does feel weird but if the goal is diverse schools then yes they "need" white families.

Here is a good place to note that diversity is not actually the goal of many of the non-white families in DCPS -- while white families in DCPS like the idea of sending their kids to diverse schools with plenty of non-white people not all black families dream of sending their kids to schools with a substantial percentage of white kids. Some black families are indifferent. Some are wary but generally see a benefit in more higher income students in a school in terms of the quality of education. But some are actually hostily towards it and worry that having more than 10-20% white families will change the culture of the school in a way that will diminish it as a place that black kids feel welcome and celebrated.

Understanding these attitudes is pretty central to any conversation about how we "improve" DCPS schools -- many white people enter DCPS with PK students and assume that everyone in the system wants the exact same things they do and that's just not the case. I would highly encourage anyone contemplating these issues to actually TALK to black DCPS families especially those who have sent generations of students to DCPS schools and have a different perspective on the city's public schools and their direction.

The goal is good schools. White families simply aren't ever going to move to all neighborhoods of DC. No chance. Ballou isn't going to become 'diverse.' We need it to be good. For the kids who live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly hate this entire debate as a white parent in the system. I feel like we are the villain no matter what we do. If I send my kid to a local public school, I'm a gentrifier. If I move and send my kids to an upper NW school, I'm segregating. And god help me if I put my kids in private. There is no "good" path so I've just given up trying. I'm sick of trying to treat my children's education like some sort of symbolic signifier of my morals.

So, I feel you, but I feel like it's important to live my values. Not bumper sticker stuff.

DP but the challenge for me is when my values run up against my own kid's interest. I will just be totally honest and say that I think I was unrealistic and naive about my values before I had kids in the school system and I have considerably more sympathy for people I used to privately criticize for "abandoning local schools" or "being afraid of their kids going to school with poor kids" than I ever thought I would. It is more complex than I thought it was back then and I'm not embarassed to admit that it was appropriate to roll eyes and dismiss me back when I was a prospective PK parent who wanted to "live my values." I'm now a parent of middle elementary kids and I roll my eyes at former self every day. I didn't get it.

DP, and same here. I also grew up attending a very strong public school system, so I was also pretty naive about what is and is not a given in public schools. I'm staggered at the system's hostility to any tracking, not least because it seems like the only way for smart kids from families of limited means to get the enrichment/advanced programming they could benefit from, and am frankly pretty nonplussed at how little appetite there seems to be among parents to agitate for changes. Maybe one day things will change, but it doesn't seem like it will happen fast enough for my kids, and it turns out I'm not willing to sacrifice their education.