Raising kids in a competitive UMC community? Would you do it all over again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

+1 I haven't experienced this. I have one in college and a HS senior. I think it's friends AND mindset.

I really don’t get this. Have you all never lived outside the DC area? It’s a big country and it’s absolutely variable in terms of the pace of life. Maybe if you haven’t lived in other places, you don’t realize how different the northeast is generally. Places have different vibes, whether it’s east coast/west coast, southeast vs Midwest vs northeast, urban vs rural. And yes, some places are more competitive, driven and job/work oriented than others. None of this is a knock on DC or other fast paced areas! It doesn’t mean people in more fast paced areas aren’t nice. It’s just not for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where are y'all moving to that is so chill? Honestly, I have friends/family in UMC places all over the country (Chicago burbs, Seattle, SF, Houston, Indianapolis) and everyone is stressed and competitive and driving hours and hours for travel soccer.

TN, SC, NC, Colorado, Florida - those are the ones I personally know people left for.

[Anonymous]

Not DC, but we have one at a small, ultra competitive school that shows up on the top national high school lists. About half the class goes Top 20 every year (again, small class size). That child thrives on it. Has serious FOMO and enjoys the opportunity to sample and try everything at the smaller school.

Our other kids aren’t built for that environment and so they attend a lower key school. Still dream of moving to a small mountain town and opting out of everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are currently raising our kids in a very competitive UMC community. There’s some racial diversity but next to no socioeconomic diversity. Top 1 percent ranked public school in the national, starting price for a modest house is 1.5-2n… it’s very much a bubble. Kids are extremely involved in extracurriculars across the board and it’s a very strong community. In many ways we are happy with it but I also have this nagging feeling maybe it’s not the answer for my family and my kids. I grew up in a small middle class town where everyone made the team in HS and college was expected but community college was okay too. It wasn’t a pressure cooker environment. We were just kids and had a lot of leisure time. I went on to private school in college and experienced the uber wealthy and those from much lower incomes in my social circle as well as a lot of diversity. I think I personally benefitted from it and do well with all kinds of people. We own a second home in a rural area. My kids are 6,8 and 9. I’m considering moving there where it’s a much simpler lifestyle and not so competitive. I would love to hear what people have to say about their own experiences.

Hard NO from me chiming in from a childhood in Scarsdale and Rye.

Ugh, same here, childhood in Greenwich…EXCEPT. That background launched me into one of the best secondary schools in the world, and I can’t tell you how important my experience there has been to my life. Despite that school’s incredible racial, national, cultural, and socioeconomic diversity, I’m not confident I would have gotten in (or even thought to apply) without the privileges afforded me by my childhood.

My family now is sadly not in a private school income bracket, and my husband’s family is state-flagship oriented, as opposed to my Ivy-oriented family. There’s a big cultural difference and it’s unsettling to think that my kids won’t be able to relate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are currently raising our kids in a very competitive UMC community. There’s some racial diversity but next to no socioeconomic diversity. Top 1 percent ranked public school in the national, starting price for a modest house is 1.5-2n… it’s very much a bubble. Kids are extremely involved in extracurriculars across the board and it’s a very strong community. In many ways we are happy with it but I also have this nagging feeling maybe it’s not the answer for my family and my kids. I grew up in a small middle class town where everyone made the team in HS and college was expected but community college was okay too. It wasn’t a pressure cooker environment. We were just kids and had a lot of leisure time. I went on to private school in college and experienced the uber wealthy and those from much lower incomes in my social circle as well as a lot of diversity. I think I personally benefitted from it and do well with all kinds of people. We own a second home in a rural area. My kids are 6,8 and 9. I’m considering moving there where it’s a much simpler lifestyle and not so competitive. I would love to hear what people have to say about their own experiences.

Hard NO from me chiming in from a childhood in Scarsdale and Rye.

Ugh, same here, childhood in Greenwich…EXCEPT. That background launched me into one of the best secondary schools in the world, and I can’t tell you how important my experience there has been to my life. Despite that school’s incredible racial, national, cultural, and socioeconomic diversity, I’m not confident I would have gotten in (or even thought to apply) without the privileges afforded me by my childhood.

My family now is sadly not in a private school income bracket, and my husband’s family is state-flagship oriented, as opposed to my Ivy-oriented family. There’s a big cultural difference and it’s unsettling to think that my kids won’t be able to relate.

Very weird

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I have good friend in the Midwest (average suburb outside a midsized city, so not small town). Her kids’ high school experience seems so much nicer than around here. They have all kinds of activities at school, the kids seem more social and kinder, and there’s no shame in aiming to go to college at some place like Wisconsin or Iowa. Just seems like a much better experience.

This sounds like exactly the kind of experience my kids had at Wilson/Jackson Reed High School. Perhaps all you folks that live in these competitive UMC communities in MD and VA should move to DC.

I was scanning this thread up to this point thinking, "where do these people live? Must be suburbia!" Not really DC Urban Moms/Dads.

At least among our public school friends, we have not experienced this intense competition, except for sports. There are too few slots for sports.

I had been wondering about moving to the suburbs for "better" schools and a big yard and lower crime, but this thread reminds me that it just might be just trading in one set of problems for another.

I guess if many people move to an area specifically for "better" schools, they're already starting the competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

Except I have almost no influence on who my friends are friends with. Maybe some in ES (not much) but not really any beyond that. DH and I don’t encourage the competition or behave in a competitive way (and have the old cars and kitchen to show for it) and yet my kids have still picked up on this from their friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

+1 I haven't experienced this. I have one in college and a HS senior. I think it's friends AND mindset.

I really don’t get this. Have you all never lived outside the DC area? It’s a big country and it’s absolutely variable in terms of the pace of life. Maybe if you haven’t lived in other places, you don’t realize how different the northeast is generally. Places have different vibes, whether it’s east coast/west coast, southeast vs Midwest vs northeast, urban vs rural. And yes, some places are more competitive, driven and job/work oriented than others. None of this is a knock on DC or other fast paced areas! It doesn’t mean people in more fast paced areas aren’t nice. It’s just not for everyone.

You misunderstand. Of course DC or the Bay Area (where I grew up) or another city/town is not for everyone. The point of the OP is that raising kids in a competitive UMC is somehow detrimental or exhausting. Seeing that this is DCUM, I assume a place like Chevy Chase (where I reside) is the kind of place OP is talking about. Some people might find it unbearable because of what OP feels is inherent competitiveness. Others, like me, do not because I don't find it inherently competitive. I don't have my head buried, but I'm too caught up in what's right for our family to generally care about my neighbors' choices. I have many friends here and find that we can celebrate each others' accomplishments. I also generally believe through trial/error that you usually take your problems with you. You need to fix the problem (mindset) not the circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

+1 I haven't experienced this. I have one in college and a HS senior. I think it's friends AND mindset.

I really don’t get this. Have you all never lived outside the DC area? It’s a big country and it’s absolutely variable in terms of the pace of life. Maybe if you haven’t lived in other places, you don’t realize how different the northeast is generally. Places have different vibes, whether it’s east coast/west coast, southeast vs Midwest vs northeast, urban vs rural. And yes, some places are more competitive, driven and job/work oriented than others. None of this is a knock on DC or other fast paced areas! It doesn’t mean people in more fast paced areas aren’t nice. It’s just not for everyone.

I’m from NYC. Compared to my friends in NYC, our kids in a highly ranked DMV school pyramid seem to have it pretty easy. We don’t have to test into GT in kindergarten or apply to middle and high schools.

DH and I are both Ivy grad school educated. The friends we have in NYC are well educated and all want their kids to go to the Ivy schools they attended.

Our friends here in our UMC highly ranked public schools seem less concerned about their kids getting into ivy schools. People here seem satisfied with UVA, UMD, Penn State, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

Except I have almost no influence on who my friends are friends with. Maybe some in ES (not much) but not really any beyond that. DH and I don’t encourage the competition or behave in a competitive way (and have the old cars and kitchen to show for it) and yet my kids have still picked up on this from their friends.

Just want to clarify, having a luxury car (even if old or bought used) or renovating a kitchen is competitive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

+1 I haven't experienced this. I have one in college and a HS senior. I think it's friends AND mindset.

I really don’t get this. Have you all never lived outside the DC area? It’s a big country and it’s absolutely variable in terms of the pace of life. Maybe if you haven’t lived in other places, you don’t realize how different the northeast is generally. Places have different vibes, whether it’s east coast/west coast, southeast vs Midwest vs northeast, urban vs rural. And yes, some places are more competitive, driven and job/work oriented than others. None of this is a knock on DC or other fast paced areas! It doesn’t mean people in more fast paced areas aren’t nice. It’s just not for everyone.

I’m from NYC. Compared to my friends in NYC, our kids in a highly ranked DMV school pyramid seem to have it pretty easy. We don’t have to test into GT in kindergarten or apply to middle and high schools.

DH and I are both Ivy grad school educated. The friends we have in NYC are well educated and all want their kids to go to the Ivy schools they attended.

Our friends here in our UMC highly ranked public schools seem less concerned about their kids getting into ivy schools. People here seem satisfied with UVA, UMD, Penn State, etc.

The operative word is seem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

+1 I haven't experienced this. I have one in college and a HS senior. I think it's friends AND mindset.

I really don’t get this. Have you all never lived outside the DC area? It’s a big country and it’s absolutely variable in terms of the pace of life. Maybe if you haven’t lived in other places, you don’t realize how different the northeast is generally. Places have different vibes, whether it’s east coast/west coast, southeast vs Midwest vs northeast, urban vs rural. And yes, some places are more competitive, driven and job/work oriented than others. None of this is a knock on DC or other fast paced areas! It doesn’t mean people in more fast paced areas aren’t nice. It’s just not for everyone.

I’m from NYC. Compared to my friends in NYC, our kids in a highly ranked DMV school pyramid seem to have it pretty easy. We don’t have to test into GT in kindergarten or apply to middle and high schools.

DH and I are both Ivy grad school educated. The friends we have in NYC are well educated and all want their kids to go to the Ivy schools they attended.

Our friends here in our UMC highly ranked public schools seem less concerned about their kids getting into ivy schools. People here seem satisfied with UVA, UMD, Penn State, etc.

#priviliged

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are currently raising our kids in a very competitive UMC community. There’s some racial diversity but next to no socioeconomic diversity. Top 1 percent ranked public school in the national, starting price for a modest house is 1.5-2n… it’s very much a bubble.

I have been down your "road not taken" after two stints living in the MD suburbs in "W" school neighborhoods.

I enjoyed the more relaxed, somewhat less UMC communities that I lived in before and after my year at a "W" feeder middle school quite a long time ago. I found there was a lot more snobbery and pointless academic pressure at that school compared to where I had come from and where I lived next after a second rapid interstate move. That experience is why I decided that I would never endorse attending "the best" schools just based on reputation.

In my 20s, I worked in DC and lived in the MD catchment area of another "W" school. Plainly put, my husband and I couldn't figure out how to finance the life we wanted in that area so we moved away. At the time, I would have aspired to a $450-$650K tiny colonial somewhat within walking distance to the Bethesda Metro. These houses are now 2x-4x the price. Could not have afforded that kind of house before grad school and would have sacrificed probably 10 years of young family life to getting financially comfortable if we had moved back to where I wanted to live.

We now live in a small suburban city far from the DMV that is much like the old Bethesda when it was mostly homey and a low rise downtown. I absolutely love it.

The school district is considered Top 50 in the state. It is socioeconomically diverse LMC/MC/some UMC but not very racially diverse. However, it's much more diverse than my elementary or high school (outside the DMV).

Here have been the pros:

-Kids are able to relax and still do well, no insecurities and no tears related to competition
-Kids understand what it means to be poor and what it means to be privileged, and there is almost no bullying based on status since the richest kids are very low-key about it
-Extracurriculars are sufficient/everyone can participate/weeding out is rare
-Kids can easily be leaders

Here are the cons:

-UMC striver values are sometimes alien. School admins and counselors don't understand why parents care so much about particular school issues. And they are more focused on consensus and getting by in a pleasant manner than on encouraging excellence.

-Kids are sometimes bored because education is not hard enough given what local parents will accept and few subjects have ability tracking until high school.

-Kids slack because they can, and this can result in grade dips.

-Few friends can serve as role models and there is a limited choice of friends who are highly compatible.

-Some racial tensions in the schools due to the times we are living in, and precisely because it is not a homogenous UMC community. My kids have definitely had to grapple with some uncomfortable situations that I never experienced as a child. Don't know if that will make them more or less tolerant in the end. I think more tolerant but also more cynical, if that makes sense.

When I talk to my friends who are in "better" districts, they also report a lot of crazy b.s. is going on in their schools. So, I conclude the main issue for my kids in an imperfect school district really relates to not being challenged enough. But my hypothesis has always been that college is really the best time to stretch one's self and that high school burnout is real. So I've been playing a long game. I will only know if my plans to protect my kids' sanity worked out once they are through college.

I have Ivy-educated parents but I'm a big believer in cost-efficiency so my household is state flagship-oriented. I think economically we've achieved the same standard of living as my Ivy relatives except for not having pensions due to being Gen X and our career choices. I can say that the economics of living outside the DMV has been wonderfully manageable (house, childcare, commuting, etc.).

So, I can't answer the question of whether I would raise kids in the DMV "again". But I think on balance, I would still make the same decision to move away and raise kids elsewhere. I just want my kids to be intelligent, happy, and well-adjusted. It's a fair question, though, as to whether I'd shoot for a better school district in my current area if I had a do-over. Leaning towards no, but am not firm in that conviction. Which is why I enjoy pressing my nose to the glass that is DCUM...it's my "road not taken"!

This is interesting two things you want from your kid. Being intelligent doesn't necessarily bring you happiness and what do you mean by "happiness". That is a fleeting state and something you can't be in all the time. ie you feel grateful for your health especially after you have been sick. Every parent says "be happy" but no real idea of what that means

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I have good friend in the Midwest (average suburb outside a midsized city, so not small town). Her kids’ high school experience seems so much nicer than around here. They have all kinds of activities at school, the kids seem more social and kinder, and there’s no shame in aiming to go to college at some place like Wisconsin or Iowa. Just seems like a much better experience.

This sounds like exactly the kind of experience my kids had at Wilson/Jackson Reed High School. Perhaps all you folks that live in these competitive UMC communities in MD and VA should move to DC.

I was scanning this thread up to this point thinking, "where do these people live? Must be suburbia!" Not really DC Urban Moms/Dads.

At least among our public school friends, we have not experienced this intense competition, except for sports. There are too few slots for sports.

I had been wondering about moving to the suburbs for "better" schools and a big yard and lower crime, but this thread reminds me that it just might be just trading in one set of problems for another.

I guess if many people move to an area specifically for "better" schools, they're already starting the competition.

I live in DC and only half agree. We are in DCPS and I agree there's less of they hyper competitive pressure cooker environment here. But I still enounter lots of hyper-competitive people, including parents who can be intensely competitive about sports, activities, academics, etc.

We live on the Hill and another thing that emerges is that because of the disjointed MS/HS situation here, there's competition around the lottery and spots at charters, as well as application high schools and privates. The lottery competition is especially ridiculous -- it's a lottery! It's pure luck! I think the unevenness of schools over here combined with a lot of parents in pretty high powered and/or high paying jobs means that there's a lot of fundamental insecurity over if people are doing the right or best thing for their kids.

So it might not be the kind of competition people have in Bethesda or in parts of NoVa, I definitely still feel it and notice how the intense personalities and especially parents who attended "elite" schools can really ramp up parenting anxiety across the board in ways I really don't enjoy. You really have to shut it out and just do your thing, but it's absolutely more intense than in other parts of the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

First of all, peer pressure exists everywhere, UMC communities, poor communities, cities, suburbs, rural communities. Second of all, if this is what you think these are the values of competitive UMC communities, then that is on you.

Agreed. Peer pressure exists often more in poorer communities. Just in a different way. There is always a hierarchy of some sort.