Christian Zionism- please explain it to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

Can anyone sign up to be a Jewish chosen person? Or do Jews have DNA tests as actual evidence of their chosen status?

You can convert to Judaism and rule the world. Join our space laser club. Oh and the horns will be complimentary.

So no DNA evidence is necessary?

Unlike, Christians, Jews don't seek converts, but they do accept them. During the Holocaust, it didn't matter to the Germans if you practiced Judaism or not, just having jewish blood in your veins condemned you.

News Flash - German NAZIS also slaughtered millions of people who had no Jewish blood in their veins. Please acknowledge that fact.

For example, Catholic priests and nuns got put to death first, before Jewish people. NAZIS knew Catholics would take Jews in, thus risking their own lives.

NP. No one is disputing that, in addition to the six million Jews killed in the Holocaust, there were other groups killed, including (but not limited to) nearly 300,000 people with disabilities, up to 500,000 Romani, and homosexual men. There was the mass murder of civilians, including nearly two million Poles, most of whom were Catholic, among many other Slavs. Clergy who resisted the Nazis were imprisoned and/or killed, many of whom were Polish Catholic.

So the Jews were the Nazi's primary target based on ideology, but others deemed racially "inferior" or resistors (to include intellectuals as well as clergy) were murdered. This is an emphasized part of Holocaust education, at least in the Holocaust museums and among Jews. Yad Vashem has also recognized about 29,000 Righteous Among Nations (non-Jews who risked their lives to save Jews out of altruism), who should serve as an inspiration for us all.

Thank you. My family is one of those 29,000 Righteous Among Nations honored as non-Jews for saving Jews.
It’s unfortunate how rarely one hears a Jew expressing any gratitude to all the countless Catholics (and others) who paid with their own lives just to save Jewish lives.

What a tremendous heritage! Well I will say thank you. My own family and Jewish friends certainly have much gratitude.

The Righteous Among Nations has been a significant initiative in Israel, obviously. And of there are initiatives among American Jews, with one of the most well known being Steven Spielberg filming Schindler's List and using the profits to create the Righteous Persons Foundation. Unfortunately Holocaust education is sorely lacking overall, with more than half of 18-29 year old Americans either believing that the Holocaust is a myth or expressing uncertainty whether it's happened. It's appalling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

Can anyone sign up to be a Jewish chosen person? Or do Jews have DNA tests as actual evidence of their chosen status?

I don’t know how Christian teachings handle the idea of being God’s chosen people, but in Judaism, it’s more about obligation — we have been chosen to have to follow 613 commandments — than about any special status.

Then how does Netanyahu get away with calling himself Jewish, considering what he’s doing in Gaza?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

Can anyone sign up to be a Jewish chosen person? Or do Jews have DNA tests as actual evidence of their chosen status?

I don’t know how Christian teachings handle the idea of being God’s chosen people, but in Judaism, it’s more about obligation — we have been chosen to have to follow 613 commandments — than about any special status.

Then how does Netanyahu get away with calling himself Jewish, considering what he’s doing in Gaza?

Anyone?

[Anonymous]

Isn't zionism actually more secular than Jewish? It's more socio-political than theological.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't zionism actually more secular than Jewish? It's more socio-political than theological.

Jews endlessly fight amongst themselves about this, so who cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

Can anyone sign up to be a Jewish chosen person? Or do Jews have DNA tests as actual evidence of their chosen status?

I don’t know how Christian teachings handle the idea of being God’s chosen people, but in Judaism, it’s more about obligation — we have been chosen to have to follow 613 commandments — than about any special status.

Then how does Netanyahu get away with calling himself Jewish, considering what he’s doing in Gaza?

Well, not every Jew follows all the commandments (I personally don't). He's Jewish if his mother was Jewish. Whether he's a good Jew (or a good person) is a different question entirely. I personally have an opinion on that, but I'll keep it to myself here in hopes of not violating the commandment against lashon hara.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't zionism actually more secular than Jewish? It's more socio-political than theological.

Jews endlessly fight amongst themselves about this, so who cares?

It matters, in case you haven't been paying attention to current events and the accusations calling someone who is anti-zionism, as "anti-semitic."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thank you. Is this what’s in the book of revelation verbatim ? Or is this how they interpret it?

You know I’ve tried to wade through Revelations and I just can’t. But that is what is accepted as truth among fundies and evangelicals (many of whom haven’t read the Bible at all). The Jewish people have to be there for the End Times.

The other pillar of this is a passage you will be familiar with, depending on which version of the Bible you grew up with: Genesis 1:26, which basically says that humans are to have dominion over the earth. In the ‘vangie reading, this is taken to mean that we can do whatever we want and it has led to the belief that to bring about the end times, we first have to destroy the earth, which is why they oppose clean air, water, soil, and why they don’t care if every species on the planet except us and the food we need to grow goes extinct.

Christians like that would be a thousand million times happier and better people if they understood what Jesus meant when he said “the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” It’s here and you can have it if we’re kind and caring. That’s it. That’s what Jesus wanted. Make Heaven happen on earth.

Woah.

Jew here. I can guarantee you that NO one thinks the Garden of Eden was in Israel. I've heard Sudan (Nile?) and Southern Iraq.

And Adam/Eve were NOT Jewish. The first Jews were Abraham & Sarah and they didn't have laws of Kashrut, etc (modern laws). Laws didn't exist before Moses. And the Temple didn't exist until Solomon (David's son). Ad modern Jews are nothing like the "Temple" Jews.

So putting all the Jews back to Israel because of the Garden of Eden/Genesis makes NO sense on so many levels.

I am guessing that it is because Jesus was Jewish??? Jesus was in Israel??? Jesus didn't leave Israel??? So since Jesus died in Israel, all Jews should die in Israel to be with Jesus?

I honestly have no idea.

For many “Christians Zionists,” and particularly for popular evangelists with significant clout within the Republican Party, their support for Israel is rooted in its role in the supposed end times: Jesus’ return to Earth, a bloody final battle at Armageddon, and Jesus ruling the world from the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. In this scenario, war is not something to be avoided, but something inevitable, desired by God, and celebratory.

At the heart of Christian Zionism is not a love for Israel but rather Christian nationalism.

What happens to the Jews and Palestinians is, to put it very mildly, collateral damage. Christian Zionists are anticipating, and hoping for a war to end all wars, and a resulting Christian world that they claim will vanquish evil and bring peace. Only those who accept Jesus as their savior will benefit from these events that Christian Zionists claim the Bible predicts will happen. Nonbelievers — including Jews and Muslims — will not survive them.

I've known about this theology for a while, but seeing it written out turns my stomach. Isn't it nice to know that there are people in power that believe this shit????

What's the part that turns your stomach? That people believe it, or the collateral damage part?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't zionism actually more secular than Jewish? It's more socio-political than theological.

It depends on which Jewish person you ask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.

It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!

Catholic Christians do not believe this. I don't know what Protestant Christians and Mormons believe, but assume they are aligned with what is posted above.

I went to Catholic school all my life, and this issue was specifically addressed in our religion class while we were doing a unit on the Holocaust in another class. According to the priest teaching the religion class, it was made clear in Vatican II that Jews can achieve salvation WITHOUT converting to Christianity. In the book of Romans in the bible, Paul talks about God's covenant with the Jewish people, which is unchanged and ongoing. Also, the way/why the Jews are promised and will achieve salvation is considered a "mystery" in the Catholic church, but it is real. I remember the priest telling us that "the Jews are God's special people." He was pretty clear about that. And God promised the land of Israel to the Jews in a bunch of places in the Old Testament; I remember this happened in Genesis (but there's other places too). The holy land was promised by God to the Jews as their home.

It's not a coincidence that JD Vance is adamantly Catholic. Megyn Kelly is vocal about her Catholic faith and so are other MAGAs. Here's a New York Post article about MAGA Catholics: https://nypost.com/2025/04/20/us-news/meet-americas-new-maga-catholics/

So, I don't know what Protestant Christians believe, but that's the Catholic perspective.

Disclaimer: I am not religious today.

I can see why you're no longer religious, with the above being an example of how the Catholic Church ties itself up in knots trying to align common sense with doctrine. It only matters that Jews are saved if you believe that stuff in the first place.

As a Jew, I don’t care if the church thinks I can be saved — I’m just glad they’re no longer teaching that we killed Christ.

As a Catholic, I never learned that the Jews killed Christ. But come to think of it, they were all Jews, weren't they? Including Jesus.

Me neither and by the way, Pontius Pilate wasn't Jewish -- he was Roman. There weren't any Christians yet.

Judas was Jewish, the high priest and the Sanhedrin was Jewish, his crime was to pretend to be divine and was judged to be put to death, Pontius Pilot was just a formality as they needed his permission

Read the gospels to see how events unfolded. All churches preach that.
According to doctrine it is irrelevant who you or anyone thinks is culpable since all the teachings arise from him rising from the dead

Pontius Pilot was not given a pass in my Catholic school. He was not just a formality. He had power, and even though he may have thought he was not making a choice, literally washing his hands of the matter, when you choose not to decide you still have made a choice. I think our teacher actually played "Freewill" by Rush at the end of class. The ethics of Pontius Pilot is an important educational theme, whether you view it as a history or a story.