How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense

[Anonymous]

Unrenovated homes in my neighborhood still sell quickly, and yes its for a discount, but the discount is less than the total cost of all renovations needed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations

Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.

You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.

I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.

OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Okay, but what's actually wrong with your furniture? Is it rickety, is it torn, is the fabric wearing holes? I bet if you sand, stain, and re-seal the kitchen table it will look way better.

Age alone is not a reason to replace things. Have you heard of antiques, it's a whole industry!

+1 sorry op much of our furniture is from our parents in the 80’s buying. I can’t imagine how much more throw away our society would be if we all bought new furniture every ten years. I get that ikea or wayfsir particle board might not make it but if you have a dark wood dining room table you sand it and re-stain it you don’t throw it in the dump!

Do you have a 23 year old sofa?

NP. We have a 23 year old sofa and a living room table from 2000 and a kitchen table from the 80s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unrenovated homes in my neighborhood still sell quickly, and yes its for a discount, but the discount is less than the total cost of all renovations needed.

Understood.

But if you spend $100k in updates and then enjoy them for 10-15 years and sell your fully paid off home for north of $800k, isn’t it worth it? A well maintained home will surely sell faster and for more than a dilapidated one.

Before we sold our starter home, we painted the interior and spruced up the exterior. We updated the 1960s light fixtures and faucets, etc. We sold over asking price. Quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations

Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.

You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.

I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.

OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Okay, but what's actually wrong with your furniture? Is it rickety, is it torn, is the fabric wearing holes? I bet if you sand, stain, and re-seal the kitchen table it will look way better.

Age alone is not a reason to replace things. Have you heard of antiques, it's a whole industry!

+1 sorry op much of our furniture is from our parents in the 80’s buying. I can’t imagine how much more throw away our society would be if we all bought new furniture every ten years. I get that ikea or wayfsir particle board might not make it but if you have a dark wood dining room table you sand it and re-stain it you don’t throw it in the dump!

Do you have a 23 year old sofa?

NP. We have a 23 year old sofa and a living room table from 2000 and a kitchen table from the 80s.

Is that your primary sofa that your entire family uses everyday? Is it sagging? Still comfy? What brand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unrenovated homes in my neighborhood still sell quickly, and yes its for a discount, but the discount is less than the total cost of all renovations needed.

Understood.

But if you spend $100k in updates and then enjoy them for 10-15 years and sell your fully paid off home for north of $800k, isn’t it worth it? A well maintained home will surely sell faster and for more than a dilapidated one.

Before we sold our starter home, we painted the interior and spruced up the exterior. We updated the 1960s light fixtures and faucets, etc. We sold over asking price. Quickly.

Not really. It sounds like you don't understand the difference between major maintenance and infrastructure improvements vs. cosmetic upgrades. And really, it doesn't matter what experience you had with a sample size of one house a while ago.

If you put on a new roof, or install a new boiler, or get your water connection line replaced, or something like that, that's a big investment that's going to hold value for 10-15 years or more. If you do things that prevent your house from deteriorating, like repointing or correcting your drainage, that will help your house hold its current value. But you can't have fresh paint, live with it for 10-15 years, and expect it to sell as if it did when the paint were fresh, because the paint won't be fresh anymore. When you sold your starter house, you freshened it up *to sell*, not to enjoy, and it was fresh when you showed the house. If you paint now, it won't be fresh in 10-15 years, you'll have to re-do it.

Then there's the matter of taste. A kitchen that you consider new, lovely, fresh, classic, wonderful, will no longer seem that way after 10-15 years. It will show wear and tear, but more importantly, it will no longer feel up to date *even if you thought it would be timeless and classic* because trends change. And it simply may not be what your buyer wants. Personally I hate a lot of "modern" kitchens, think they're hideous, and would not be willing to pay more for it. I'd be thrilled with an avocado green 70s kitchen that I can renovate to my liking. You just never know what your actual buyers will value and what they'll be willing to pay more for.

Anyway, the person you need to convince is your DH, not us. You seem not to want to hear what people are saying about your attitude and how you talk about this with your DH. I think that's your real problem.

[Anonymous]

Why are you so stubborn and inflexible OP? Or you are just bored and trolling this thread? If you are for real, not surprised your spouse doesn’t want to do the renovations. Why do you need to insist on all or nothing? Don’t scare your husband with 200-300k renovations demands. Start with small and reasonable things. But you were told that already many times here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unrenovated homes in my neighborhood still sell quickly, and yes its for a discount, but the discount is less than the total cost of all renovations needed.

Understood.

But if you spend $100k in updates and then enjoy them for 10-15 years and sell your fully paid off home for north of $800k, isn’t it worth it? A well maintained home will surely sell faster and for more than a dilapidated one.

Before we sold our starter home, we painted the interior and spruced up the exterior. We updated the 1960s light fixtures and faucets, etc. We sold over asking price. Quickly.

There is a significant difference between maintenance and renovation. I suggest that you are clear with yourself and your spouse what you want. Do you want to do maintenance, renovations, or new furniture? These are not the same things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unrenovated homes in my neighborhood still sell quickly, and yes its for a discount, but the discount is less than the total cost of all renovations needed.

Understood.

But if you spend $100k in updates and then enjoy them for 10-15 years and sell your fully paid off home for north of $800k, isn’t it worth it? A well maintained home will surely sell faster and for more than a dilapidated one.

Before we sold our starter home, we painted the interior and spruced up the exterior. We updated the 1960s light fixtures and faucets, etc. We sold over asking price. Quickly.

It would be worth it for me. But it wouldn’t “make financial sense” which is the subject line. It’s no use trying to frame it that way. It’s an indulgence for your happiness—great! But it’s not an investment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unrenovated homes in my neighborhood still sell quickly, and yes its for a discount, but the discount is less than the total cost of all renovations needed.

Understood.

But if you spend $100k in updates and then enjoy them for 10-15 years and sell your fully paid off home for north of $800k, isn’t it worth it? A well maintained home will surely sell faster and for more than a dilapidated one.

Before we sold our starter home, we painted the interior and spruced up the exterior. We updated the 1960s light fixtures and faucets, etc. We sold over asking price. Quickly.

All those updates are fairly inexpensive. Paint and a few light fixtures.

If you have 15 year old updates, they aren't any better than the 30 year old updates that still work and are maintained. Both ages of updates will be dated but the time you sell.

It makes more sense to replace the cabinets that are falling apart, and then plan to do other updates as they are needed. Kitchen cabinets that don't limit the size of the refrigerator would be a good start.

And, don't freaking tile everything as homeowners here tend to do, it dates quickly.

[Anonymous]

I have not read all of this, but based on the initial post of being in a desirable neighborhood, much of the value is in the land.

You will not get 100% of the cost of the big renovations you put in. You listed hugely expensive gut renos in normal times. Plus costs shot up with the 2020 pandemic, both materials and labor.

What would I do? I would look at blogs, I am not up on them anymore, but about low cost and DIY renovations and decorating. Some are Apartment Therapy (but the ideas apply to any home decorating too), Christen Benson's Blue Egg Brown Nest, and This Old House. Ignore HGTV which is trying to sell and markets to you.

For a kitchen update, the most bang for your buck is leave everything in place including cabinets. Do things such as paint cabinets with a gel stain and varnish. Maybe new hardware and light fixtures pay cash. Maybe, if it makes a big difference and you pay cash, add new countertop.

Look at slipcovers for the sofas and new pillows. Kids trash sofas anyway so better to wash the covers.

Look to what the realtors do to prep homes. Could make some key furniture updates - mostly get rid of furniture and clutter in your home because most people have too much. If something wrong sized or better to have a clear table somewhere for instance, keep an eye on FB Marketplave or Nextdoor for the right piece at a good price.

No need for a gut reno of the bathroom. Did you know that realtors get tubs and tiles re-glazed?

But also please examine what is prompting this all of a sudden?

[Anonymous]

Personally I'd rather send the bank 200k and be rid of the mortgage forever than have a cosmetic updates and a huge HELOC.

[Anonymous]

We gutted and renovated our 1980's kitchen and it was so worth it.

There are several details that just make the space more practical. For example, the kitchen was mostly cabinets. We replaced many of them with drawers, which are easier to access and hold more items. We have two large drawer that hold pots and pans and is well organized. To access the back of a corner cabinet I had to get on my hands and knees. We added shelving and a butcher block that I can roll dough on.

But we probably won't make money on the renovation. At best we'll recoup the money at sale. But the quality of life and practicality is worth the renovation costs.

[Anonymous]

Again, people are reacting to OP’s sulking.

She is entirely free to renovate however she wants. It’s hard sometimes to persuade one’s spouse, but this is how marriages work. Sometimes you don’t get what you want.

My husband is a terrible cheapskate, OP. I make a spreadsheet with prices, get quotes if the work needs it, and then we can discuss FACTS. Don’t just sit there and sulk! Get
a move on and deal with your money already instead of getting stuck in “I wanna!”-land.

[Anonymous]

Are you able to invite people over, OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you able to invite people over, OP?

Nope.

And therein lies the problem.