Robinson dumping AP classes and focusing on IB

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a Robinson parent and hate the IB program. I wish that Robinson would get with the program and just do AP like the other, higher ranked schools. IB serves zero purpose and is detriment to RSS kids trying to get into colleges.

We bought a house in this district because it was what we could afford at the time. I did not choose RSS for IB. It was forced on us. Can we move? No, that's an unrealistic option at this time. I also don't want to ship my kids out to LB just for APs and kill their school day.

IB is a sad option, and I wish they would poll parents on this topic because I don't know many that actually want this waste of time for the kids.

Wait why do you hate IB? I thought writing and reading are supposed to be challenging and rigorous. Are the math/science classes not up to par? I'm confused what you mean about calling it a waste of time for the kids.. is it because there are too many requirements to obtain the diploma, like the TOK class?

Calculus-based physics is not offered. IB math does not integrate well with taking calculus junior year. IB limits students students to taking 3-4 HL classes, when the very top students would be capable of taking all 6 subjects HL (and with AP, they could take a full AP course load across all subjects).

So is IB less stressful, without as much of the rat race of racking up AP classes? I don’t need my child to take 10+ AP classes, but it seems like that’s what is required if they want to go to a top tier college.

Parents of IB diploma kids are always emphasizing that the diploma program is at least as rigorous as 10-12 AP classes, except when someone asks if taking a lot of AP classes is a "rat race" or "pressure cooker." Then they are nowhere to be found.

?

Maybe this wasn't artfully phrased.

To restate - why don't people worry as much over whether the IB diploma program is as stressful as taking a lot of AP courses? Is it less rigorous, or do people just not like to acknowledge the IB diploma program can also be a rat race or pressure cooker?

I'm a parent of one child who earned the IB diploma and another one who is a current senior and is pursuing the diploma. You know why more students don't do the diploma? Because it's a rat race and pressure cooker. Students in IB high schools see how much work the full diploma is, and decide they don't want the pressure and work. I am a huge fan of doing the full IB diploma. I believe it is an excellent prep for college level work and really sets students up to succeed once they get into college. But it is not for every student - you have to really want to do all of the requirements and it is a very structured program that doesn't allow much flexibility. I especially HATE how FCPS has implemented the IB program. If I were in charge, I would have 2-3 magnet IB high schools in the county and put AP into the other 22 high schools and really increase the amount of dual enrollment courses offered in the high FARMS high schools.

Could you please run the school board?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of IB/AP, I just wanted to give a shout out to Robinson for being an awesome school!

OP here… YES!!

Hey OP: you were right to move this thread.

The other thread would have been completely bamboozled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Robinson parents should demand a survey be conducted. Perhaps the PTA could spearhead this effort.

The School Board will likely refuse because they don't want to hear the results and know there would be ripple effects.

The Robinson parents won’t do this because they don’t want retaliation from teachers. A good portion of the teachers don’t like to have their feathers ruffled.

Moreover: the parents of the kids already in school don’t want their kids to switch out. It would be better to survey 6th grade families instead. That way they can transition over and not interfere with current student schedules.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:All the prestigious private schools y’all want so desperately to go to are dumping AP left and right- many even got sued for it.

AP ain’t what it used to be.

It used to be that you had to get the ok to take AP-you had to show you could handle the course work. This is no longer the case. I think colleges will start not taking as many APs because students are coming in not prepared when they skip the intro courses.

Except public universities still take them and saving a semester or two off on pre-reqs can be the equivalent of 30-40k.

As for IB vs AP: AP’s strength is that you can take AP courses and tests even in your sophomore year and you can study for them ahead of the course itself so that it isn’t as difficult. IB isn’t as mainstreamed so it’s difficult to prep for over the summer. This is important for kids when lots of sports or extracurriculars- to get a review before the school year starts.

I’m glad to hear that RSS is keeping calc bc. This is the one course that I actually want for my kid because it equates to two semesters of calc and an engineering course at UVA.

It would be nice to have AP so that the pressure of exams is spread out over the last two years.

Someone was mentioning that colleges take IB. This is true. But some colleges automatically take AP test scores of 5 but have to evaluate the student if it is IB credits. I think it was Yale or Princeton? Anyhow- it’s just one class makes sense but it’s also so much work and pressure in their senior year.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:That is a really terrible decision for a school that has so many military kids.

Doesn't fcps have a military liason? Someone needs to get them involved.

IB is useless for military kids.

Which school board member is in cahoots witn the company that owns the IB program?

Not true. A lot of military kids are already accustomed to IB if they’ve been to international schools overseas.

Lol, tell me which DoDDS have IB
US military schools use AP
FS kids get international school privileges or the boarding school allowance

[Anonymous]

If military is attaché at Embassy or NATO, OSCE or whatever then their kids would attend int’l schools.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:That is a really terrible decision for a school that has so many military kids.

Doesn't fcps have a military liason? Someone needs to get them involved.

IB is useless for military kids.

Which school board member is in cahoots witn the company that owns the IB program?

Not true. A lot of military kids are already accustomed to IB if they’ve been to international schools overseas.

What percentage of military kids do you think are attending international schools abroad? The percentage of deployed abroad hovers around 15%. The percentage deployed abroad whose families accompany them are far lower. It's much more common to be stationed at a base in the US and then have a unit deploy from that base with the family remaining

This question is a prime example of what people do not understand about the Robinson area. I've lived in KPW for 20 years, taught at Robinson and Lake Braddock until I retired and know both communities well.

First, the people who are military typically fall into two camps. First, many people moved to this area and bought homes early in their careers, sent their children to elementary school for some time and then rented out their homes until they were closer to retirement/exit from the military. These families then returned to the area and took jobs as contractors (supplementing their retirement or reserve pay) with their new income. Usually these people arrived back when their kids were starting high school or in middle school (which makes sense for officers -- most of whom have post-graduate degrees and were older -- well for the military not DC-- when they had kids). Robinson AND Lake Braddock communities are full of these families. People usually are fine where they are once they find a house.

These people don't care about IB, but like the area and are fine generally. Most who live walking distance send their kids to Robinson. The bulk (until over the past 5-10 years) of placements to lake Braddock were AAP kids. This dropped dramatically over the past 10 years --some due to the Lake Braddock issues (principal/admin drama) and some due to just the ebb and flow of preference of the families. The other point is that not all Robinson kids place in Lake Braddock for AP. Most do, but many place in Centreville, South County or Woodson. For these kids, they often just go to Robinson instead of spending middle school in one place, high school in a different one that isn't full of their center friends or neighborhood friends. The county cracked down on pupil placement for AP at Lake Braddock about 15 years ago and started holding the line that if you live closer to some school, you go there unless it's full (So, some Woodson and Centreville kids ended up at Fairfax for example for a bit but Woodson is open now judging from the graduation signs in my neighborhood).

The second group is indeed international military families. Robinson is actually sought out by these folks and there are a lot of them (because these are officers working in the Pentagon). These families had kids overseas in IB schools and they actually want to continue this for consistency sake. Many military family forums actually recommend the Robinson schools for this reason (if you look at rentals during high season (late spring) you will see IB being mentioned because that is often a search term).

I will say that Robinson and Lake Braddock (to a slightly lesser extent) fairly uniformly middle class/upper middle class. It's not rich, rich. But these kids are resourced. The families seem more content with their choices than other schools in the county.

For a school with a catchment area the size of Robinson, the enrollment seems quite low. Granted some of the areas have big lot sizes, but others do not.

I'm sure there are some military families who want to continue in IB based on prior assignments, but the number of military families at Hayfield, Lake Braddock, and West Springfield seems larger.

For families choosing Robinson, IB makes sense. For these other schools, obviously, having AP classes works. It's good for the military families to have these choices. I don't know why people keep crapping on Robinson. What's the point of this thread?

The milktary families who chose Robinson did so for the nicer houses or because they couldn't find housing zoned for WS or LB. IB was a drawback.

I like how you speak for all military families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Robinson parent and hate the IB program. I wish that Robinson would get with the program and just do AP like the other, higher ranked schools. IB serves zero purpose and is detriment to RSS kids trying to get into colleges.

We bought a house in this district because it was what we could afford at the time. I did not choose RSS for IB. It was forced on us. Can we move? No, that's an unrealistic option at this time. I also don't want to ship my kids out to LB just for APs and kill their school day.

IB is a sad option, and I wish they would poll parents on this topic because I don't know many that actually want this waste of time for the kids.

Wait why do you hate IB? I thought writing and reading are supposed to be challenging and rigorous. Are the math/science classes not up to par? I'm confused what you mean about calling it a waste of time for the kids.. is it because there are too many requirements to obtain the diploma, like the TOK class?

Calculus-based physics is not offered. IB math does not integrate well with taking calculus junior year. IB limits students students to taking 3-4 HL classes, when the very top students would be capable of taking all 6 subjects HL (and with AP, they could take a full AP course load across all subjects).

So is IB less stressful, without as much of the rat race of racking up AP classes? I don’t need my child to take 10+ AP classes, but it seems like that’s what is required if they want to go to a top tier college.

Parents of IB diploma kids are always emphasizing that the diploma program is at least as rigorous as 10-12 AP classes, except when someone asks if taking a lot of AP classes is a "rat race" or "pressure cooker." Then they are nowhere to be found.

?

Maybe this wasn't artfully phrased.

To restate - why don't people worry as much over whether the IB diploma program is as stressful as taking a lot of AP courses? Is it less rigorous, or do people just not like to acknowledge the IB diploma program can also be a rat race or pressure cooker?

I'm a parent of one child who earned the IB diploma and another one who is a current senior and is pursuing the diploma. You know why more students don't do the diploma? Because it's a rat race and pressure cooker. Students in IB high schools see how much work the full diploma is, and decide they don't want the pressure and work. I am a huge fan of doing the full IB diploma. I believe it is an excellent prep for college level work and really sets students up to succeed once they get into college. But it is not for every student - you have to really want to do all of the requirements and it is a very structured program that doesn't allow much flexibility. I especially HATE how FCPS has implemented the IB program. If I were in charge, I would have 2-3 magnet IB high schools in the county and put AP into the other 22 high schools and really increase the amount of dual enrollment courses offered in the high FARMS high schools.

Could you please run the school board?

+1 for your platform!

[Anonymous]

+1. IB as a magnet or two would make sooo much sense. I personally would love to send my kids to a school where I have confidence that 100% of the students and staff are fully committed to IB because they want to be there. Such a school would essentially mirror TJ's enthusiasm for academics without all of the competitiveness and drama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1. IB as a magnet or two would make sooo much sense. I personally would love to send my kids to a school where I have confidence that 100% of the students and staff are fully committed to IB because they want to be there. Such a school would essentially mirror TJ's enthusiasm for academics without all of the competitiveness and drama.

I am sure if someone ran on it, they would get votes. But that is not enough pressure to change the system. As with any bureaucracy, implementation would take years.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Robinson is an IB school. It makes no sense for them to offer random AP classes. And they don’t have the enrollment to justify them anymore. Pupil place to an AP school if you want AP.

GREAT, now they're going to dump all the AP students to an already crowded Lake Braddock. Ugh!

LB is not overcrowded. They're still open to transfers.

Have you seen the traffic there? or the cafeteria during lunch? or the hallways at any give time?

It is sure more than what the staff can handle!

amen, and no lockers even if you requested one, can't use the restroom during class change or lunch due to long lines. its awful!

Lake Braddock is attracting a lot more kids, including pupil placements, than Robinson.

So the complaints sound a little bit like the old Yogi Berra line "no one goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

Does Lake Braddock have a principal yet? Or again? I’d rather have IB than a rotating door for principals.

You're kidding right? Hope Robinson keeps BOTH AP and IB.

Lake Braddock has strong Assistant Principals for each Subschool so a Principal is just cherry on the top. We don't need more AAP or AP outsiders!

[Anonymous]

How many kids are enrolled in BC calc at Robinson? I heard a lot dropped so they’re running the class with a small number of students. Doesn’t seem a good use of a class, if true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many kids are enrolled in BC calc at Robinson? I heard a lot dropped so they’re running the class with a small number of students. Doesn’t seem a good use of a class, if true.

I don’t know but it’s something like 1 or 2. It’s small enough to reconsider how they deploy math teachers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is an RMIB alum. IB should only be offered to very bright kids with a lot of support.

IB in a academically lagging school is absolutely terrible idea and a sure way to torpedo the future of struggling students.

Robinson isn't an academically lagging school, despite the handwringing on this thread. That said, the IB diploma is still a niche diploma, the majority of students are not aiming for it.

Which is why this makes no sense. A student can take one AP class and get college credit for that class. IB on the other hand is a multi year slog that most students don't want.

New poster. You seem not to understand how IB works. Students can take IB classes "a la carte" just as they do with AP classes, and some colleges give credit for those classes just as with an AP class.

Yes, the IB Diploma is a two-year (not "multi-year") commitment. But students can and do take single IB courses, can take the exam at the end of those courses, and can possibly get college credit for them. Just like with AP. Before you leap to say, "But more colleges take AP credits," so what? More take IB than you realize, if you've only been exposed to AP at your child's school.

By the way, the belief on DCUM that AP credits in HS magically transform into skipping college classes is just wrong. Sure, students can get certain credits. But it's not any kind of automatic or required one-credit-for-one-HS-class thing. Some colleges give credit yet still require the student to take a course on the basis that the college wants students to have the course taught in the way the coillege prefers. This is what happend with a very strong STEM student I know who took gobs of APs but still had to take several freshman courses she was absolutely convinced she would get to skip. The university said it required students to take certain foundational STEM classes, AP credit or not, so everyone was on the same playing field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Robinson parents should demand a survey be conducted. Perhaps the PTA could spearhead this effort.

The School Board will likely refuse because they don't want to hear the results and know there would be ripple effects.

The Robinson parents won’t do this because they don’t want retaliation from teachers. A good portion of the teachers don’t like to have their feathers ruffled.

Moreover: the parents of the kids already in school don’t want their kids to switch out. It would be better to survey 6th grade families instead. That way they can transition over and not interfere with current student schedules.

DP. Sixth grade famlies will have zero idea what the debate is about. The effort to inform them would have to be huge and it will be extremely difficult to get a lot of parents' attention onto this--many will just not understand or care why they're being asked this when their kid still isn't even in MS (most of FCPS sixth graders are in elementary schools). And getting out objective information? Forget it. Too much pro-AP, anti-IB sentiment among those who would be the most vocal.