Robinson dumping AP classes and focusing on IB

[Anonymous]

20% getting the IB diploma is an incredibly high statistic. Do 20% of students at AP school take 10+ AP classes?

-parent of one kid at LB and one at Robo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:20% getting the IB diploma is an incredibly high statistic. Do 20% of students at AP school take 10+ AP classes?

-parent of one kid at LB and one at Robo

Sure, and at more schools than where 20% are getting an IB diploma.

Again, why is FCPS afraid of finding out what families prefer?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:That is a really terrible decision for a school that has so many military kids.

Doesn't fcps have a military liason? Someone needs to get them involved.

IB is useless for military kids.

Which school board member is in cahoots witn the company that owns the IB program?

Not true. A lot of military kids are already accustomed to IB if they’ve been to international schools overseas.

What percentage of military kids do you think are attending international schools abroad? The percentage of deployed abroad hovers around 15%. The percentage deployed abroad whose families accompany them are far lower. It's much more common to be stationed at a base in the US and then have a unit deploy from that base with the family remaining

This question is a prime example of what people do not understand about the Robinson area. I've lived in KPW for 20 years, taught at Robinson and Lake Braddock until I retired and know both communities well.

First, the people who are military typically fall into two camps. First, many people moved to this area and bought homes early in their careers, sent their children to elementary school for some time and then rented out their homes until they were closer to retirement/exit from the military. These families then returned to the area and took jobs as contractors (supplementing their retirement or reserve pay) with their new income. Usually these people arrived back when their kids were starting high school or in middle school (which makes sense for officers -- most of whom have post-graduate degrees and were older -- well for the military not DC-- when they had kids). Robinson AND Lake Braddock communities are full of these families. People usually are fine where they are once they find a house.

These people don't care about IB, but like the area and are fine generally. Most who live walking distance send their kids to Robinson. The bulk (until over the past 5-10 years) of placements to lake Braddock were AAP kids. This dropped dramatically over the past 10 years --some due to the Lake Braddock issues (principal/admin drama) and some due to just the ebb and flow of preference of the families. The other point is that not all Robinson kids place in Lake Braddock for AP. Most do, but many place in Centreville, South County or Woodson. For these kids, they often just go to Robinson instead of spending middle school in one place, high school in a different one that isn't full of their center friends or neighborhood friends. The county cracked down on pupil placement for AP at Lake Braddock about 15 years ago and started holding the line that if you live closer to some school, you go there unless it's full (So, some Woodson and Centreville kids ended up at Fairfax for example for a bit but Woodson is open now judging from the graduation signs in my neighborhood).

The second group is indeed international military families. Robinson is actually sought out by these folks and there are a lot of them (because these are officers working in the Pentagon). These families had kids overseas in IB schools and they actually want to continue this for consistency sake. Many military family forums actually recommend the Robinson schools for this reason (if you look at rentals during high season (late spring) you will see IB being mentioned because that is often a search term).

I will say that Robinson and Lake Braddock (to a slightly lesser extent) fairly uniformly middle class/upper middle class. It's not rich, rich. But these kids are resourced. The families seem more content with their choices than other schools in the county.

For a school with a catchment area the size of Robinson, the enrollment seems quite low. Granted some of the areas have big lot sizes, but others do not.

I'm sure there are some military families who want to continue in IB based on prior assignments, but the number of military families at Hayfield, Lake Braddock, and West Springfield seems larger.

For families choosing Robinson, IB makes sense. For these other schools, obviously, having AP classes works. It's good for the military families to have these choices. I don't know why people keep crapping on Robinson. What's the point of this thread?

The milktary families who chose Robinson did so for the nicer houses or because they couldn't find housing zoned for WS or LB. IB was a drawback.

Speak for yourself. We moved here, specifically chose Robinson for the IB program - we are an active military family. IB was definetly not a drawback for our family, it was the draw. LB and Woodson were backups for us.

And so the minority of parents continue to insist on their right to saddle the majority with a program we’d prefer not to have. Sad.

You do realize that DCUM isn’t real life, right? Just because your little computer friends form an echo chamber doesn’t make it “the majority.”

Hence the need for the survey.

If you the IB haters foot the bill and promise to shut up then it may be considered. I guess the answer will be "no" for the latter part so why waste the $$$. You IB haters' only concern is that you don't get the $$$ that FCPS spending on IB. That is the real reason behind all the whining.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The Robinson parents should demand a survey be conducted. Perhaps the PTA could spearhead this effort.

The School Board will likely refuse because they don't want to hear the results and know there would be ripple effects.

The Robinson parents won’t do this because they don’t want retaliation from teachers. A good portion of the teachers don’t like to have their feathers ruffled.

Moreover: the parents of the kids already in school don’t want their kids to switch out. It would be better to survey 6th grade families instead. That way they can transition over and not interfere with current student schedules.

DP. Sixth grade famlies will have zero idea what the debate is about. The effort to inform them would have to be huge and it will be extremely difficult to get a lot of parents' attention onto this--many will just not understand or care why they're being asked this when their kid still isn't even in MS (most of FCPS sixth graders are in elementary schools). And getting out objective information? Forget it. Too much pro-AP, anti-IB sentiment among those who would be the most vocal.

Wait a second.

You don’t seem to get RSS starts at 7th. So 6th grade parents are learning about the school and choosing whether or not to send their kid to LBSS in the future.

And you also seem to think the bias would be too strongly against IB that it wouldn’t be a fair chance.

WT actual F.

It really seems to me that a) you think that 6th grade parents aren’t already thinking about this and are stupid and b) anyone who chooses against IB is stupid and therefore shouldn’t have input.

Based on this kind of elitist snobbery: I’m going to say that AP is not equitable. It isn’t flexible enough for stupid people like us who want our kids to focus on certain classes if that’s where their interests are.

I am with the PP: make an IB magnet school and leave everyone else AP. See who shows up for enrollment. Have DE for high Farms rate schools.

Wasn't referring to RSS but to FCPS overall. So you want a tiny survey to "fix" this for just your one school? WT actual F. Never going to happen. Funny too how you insist it's elitist snobbery to acknowledge there is deep bias against IB among parents like you.

[Anonymous]

Not PP, but see nothing wrong and a lot of value in asking parents across the county - doesn't have to be limited to Robinson - whether they would prefer to have AP or IB at their high or secondary schools. Anyone with a brain knows there is an over-supply of IB in FCPS right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to know how popular it is vs AP, look at the number of kids getting the IB diploma vs the number of kids taking AP classes in neighboring pyramids. My guess is that it’s not at all popular

In 2022, 854 kids at Robinson took an IB class out of 2497 kids as of June 2022. Thats 34% of the population taking IB classes.

At Lake Braddock, 861 kids took an AP class out of 2796 kids total. That's 31% of kids taking AP classes. Full IB diploma is irrelevant. How many AP kids did the full AP Capstone with Seminar and AP Research?

And let’s not forget - LB houses the AAP center for MS in the area. One would think a much other proportion of students would be taking an AP class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not PP, but see nothing wrong and a lot of value in asking parents across the county - doesn't have to be limited to Robinson - whether they would prefer to have AP or IB at their high or secondary schools. Anyone with a brain knows there is an over-supply of IB in FCPS right now.

Again, why the hate for IB? I love that FCPS has a diversity of options. Why does everything have to be the same at every school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is a really terrible decision for a school that has so many military kids.

Doesn't fcps have a military liason? Someone needs to get them involved.

IB is useless for military kids.

Which school board member is in cahoots witn the company that owns the IB program?

Not true. A lot of military kids are already accustomed to IB if they’ve been to international schools overseas.

What percentage of military kids do you think are attending international schools abroad? The percentage of deployed abroad hovers around 15%. The percentage deployed abroad whose families accompany them are far lower. It's much more common to be stationed at a base in the US and then have a unit deploy from that base with the family remaining

This question is a prime example of what people do not understand about the Robinson area. I've lived in KPW for 20 years, taught at Robinson and Lake Braddock until I retired and know both communities well.

First, the people who are military typically fall into two camps. First, many people moved to this area and bought homes early in their careers, sent their children to elementary school for some time and then rented out their homes until they were closer to retirement/exit from the military. These families then returned to the area and took jobs as contractors (supplementing their retirement or reserve pay) with their new income. Usually these people arrived back when their kids were starting high school or in middle school (which makes sense for officers -- most of whom have post-graduate degrees and were older -- well for the military not DC-- when they had kids). Robinson AND Lake Braddock communities are full of these families. People usually are fine where they are once they find a house.

These people don't care about IB, but like the area and are fine generally. Most who live walking distance send their kids to Robinson. The bulk (until over the past 5-10 years) of placements to lake Braddock were AAP kids. This dropped dramatically over the past 10 years --some due to the Lake Braddock issues (principal/admin drama) and some due to just the ebb and flow of preference of the families. The other point is that not all Robinson kids place in Lake Braddock for AP. Most do, but many place in Centreville, South County or Woodson. For these kids, they often just go to Robinson instead of spending middle school in one place, high school in a different one that isn't full of their center friends or neighborhood friends. The county cracked down on pupil placement for AP at Lake Braddock about 15 years ago and started holding the line that if you live closer to some school, you go there unless it's full (So, some Woodson and Centreville kids ended up at Fairfax for example for a bit but Woodson is open now judging from the graduation signs in my neighborhood).

The second group is indeed international military families. Robinson is actually sought out by these folks and there are a lot of them (because these are officers working in the Pentagon). These families had kids overseas in IB schools and they actually want to continue this for consistency sake. Many military family forums actually recommend the Robinson schools for this reason (if you look at rentals during high season (late spring) you will see IB being mentioned because that is often a search term).

I will say that Robinson and Lake Braddock (to a slightly lesser extent) fairly uniformly middle class/upper middle class. It's not rich, rich. But these kids are resourced. The families seem more content with their choices than other schools in the county.

For a school with a catchment area the size of Robinson, the enrollment seems quite low. Granted some of the areas have big lot sizes, but others do not.

I'm sure there are some military families who want to continue in IB based on prior assignments, but the number of military families at Hayfield, Lake Braddock, and West Springfield seems larger.

For families choosing Robinson, IB makes sense. For these other schools, obviously, having AP classes works. It's good for the military families to have these choices. I don't know why people keep crapping on Robinson. What's the point of this thread?

The milktary families who chose Robinson did so for the nicer houses or because they couldn't find housing zoned for WS or LB. IB was a drawback.

Speak for yourself. We moved here, specifically chose Robinson for the IB program - we are an active military family. IB was definetly not a drawback for our family, it was the draw. LB and Woodson were backups for us.

And so the minority of parents continue to insist on their right to saddle the majority with a program we’d prefer not to have. Sad.

You do realize that DCUM isn’t real life, right? Just because your little computer friends form an echo chamber doesn’t make it “the majority.”

Hence the need for the survey.

If you the IB haters foot the bill and promise to shut up then it may be considered. I guess the answer will be "no" for the latter part so why waste the $$$. You IB haters' only concern is that you don't get the $$$ that FCPS spending on IB. That is the real reason behind all the whining.

Actually, it is about the fact that FCPS has created two separate and unequal programs at the high school level and implementation and utilization of one, IB, is horrible. And in many cases is just an excuse for pupil placement. FCPS has an obligation to run effective programs and review those programs on a regular basis. I am not aware that FCPS has ever conducted a real review of IB. Nor have they revisited the schools to ask if parents want to continue with IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is a really terrible decision for a school that has so many military kids.

Doesn't fcps have a military liason? Someone needs to get them involved.

IB is useless for military kids.

Which school board member is in cahoots witn the company that owns the IB program?

Not true. A lot of military kids are already accustomed to IB if they’ve been to international schools overseas.

What percentage of military kids do you think are attending international schools abroad? The percentage of deployed abroad hovers around 15%. The percentage deployed abroad whose families accompany them are far lower. It's much more common to be stationed at a base in the US and then have a unit deploy from that base with the family remaining

This question is a prime example of what people do not understand about the Robinson area. I've lived in KPW for 20 years, taught at Robinson and Lake Braddock until I retired and know both communities well.

First, the people who are military typically fall into two camps. First, many people moved to this area and bought homes early in their careers, sent their children to elementary school for some time and then rented out their homes until they were closer to retirement/exit from the military. These families then returned to the area and took jobs as contractors (supplementing their retirement or reserve pay) with their new income. Usually these people arrived back when their kids were starting high school or in middle school (which makes sense for officers -- most of whom have post-graduate degrees and were older -- well for the military not DC-- when they had kids). Robinson AND Lake Braddock communities are full of these families. People usually are fine where they are once they find a house.

These people don't care about IB, but like the area and are fine generally. Most who live walking distance send their kids to Robinson. The bulk (until over the past 5-10 years) of placements to lake Braddock were AAP kids. This dropped dramatically over the past 10 years --some due to the Lake Braddock issues (principal/admin drama) and some due to just the ebb and flow of preference of the families. The other point is that not all Robinson kids place in Lake Braddock for AP. Most do, but many place in Centreville, South County or Woodson. For these kids, they often just go to Robinson instead of spending middle school in one place, high school in a different one that isn't full of their center friends or neighborhood friends. The county cracked down on pupil placement for AP at Lake Braddock about 15 years ago and started holding the line that if you live closer to some school, you go there unless it's full (So, some Woodson and Centreville kids ended up at Fairfax for example for a bit but Woodson is open now judging from the graduation signs in my neighborhood).

The second group is indeed international military families. Robinson is actually sought out by these folks and there are a lot of them (because these are officers working in the Pentagon). These families had kids overseas in IB schools and they actually want to continue this for consistency sake. Many military family forums actually recommend the Robinson schools for this reason (if you look at rentals during high season (late spring) you will see IB being mentioned because that is often a search term).

I will say that Robinson and Lake Braddock (to a slightly lesser extent) fairly uniformly middle class/upper middle class. It's not rich, rich. But these kids are resourced. The families seem more content with their choices than other schools in the county.

For a school with a catchment area the size of Robinson, the enrollment seems quite low. Granted some of the areas have big lot sizes, but others do not.

I'm sure there are some military families who want to continue in IB based on prior assignments, but the number of military families at Hayfield, Lake Braddock, and West Springfield seems larger.

For families choosing Robinson, IB makes sense. For these other schools, obviously, having AP classes works. It's good for the military families to have these choices. I don't know why people keep crapping on Robinson. What's the point of this thread?

The milktary families who chose Robinson did so for the nicer houses or because they couldn't find housing zoned for WS or LB. IB was a drawback.

Speak for yourself. We moved here, specifically chose Robinson for the IB program - we are an active military family. IB was definetly not a drawback for our family, it was the draw. LB and Woodson were backups for us.

And so the minority of parents continue to insist on their right to saddle the majority with a program we’d prefer not to have. Sad.

You do realize that DCUM isn’t real life, right? Just because your little computer friends form an echo chamber doesn’t make it “the majority.”

Hence the need for the survey.

If you the IB haters foot the bill and promise to shut up then it may be considered. I guess the answer will be "no" for the latter part so why waste the $$$. You IB haters' only concern is that you don't get the $$$ that FCPS spending on IB. That is the real reason behind all the whining.

Actually, it is about the fact that FCPS has created two separate and unequal programs at the high school level and implementation and utilization of one, IB, is horrible. And in many cases is just an excuse for pupil placement. FCPS has an obligation to run effective programs and review those programs on a regular basis. I am not aware that FCPS has ever conducted a real review of IB. Nor have they revisited the schools to ask if parents want to continue with IB.

The majority of IB programs function quite well as escape valves for students who would rather not attend Annandale, Justice Mt Vernon or Lewis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not PP, but see nothing wrong and a lot of value in asking parents across the county - doesn't have to be limited to Robinson - whether they would prefer to have AP or IB at their high or secondary schools. Anyone with a brain knows there is an over-supply of IB in FCPS right now.

Again, why the hate for IB? I love that FCPS has a diversity of options. Why does everything have to be the same at every school?

FCPS has a diversity of options in theory. In practice it is not feasible for many families to make arrangements to get their kids to a school that isn’t their base school, especially with many schools now closed to transfers. That being the case, it seems reasonable to find out what most families would prefer at their base schools.

[Anonymous]

What do you think the results would be if we asked the AP schools if they wanted to switch to IB?

And what do you think the results would be if we asked the IB schools if they wanted to switch to AP?

And why is FCPS afraid to ask?

[Anonymous]

Actually Region 4 did this survey about ten years ago at Robinson and the overwhelming consensus was that families wanted to keep IB at Robinson (this is from my memory working there, I work at a different FCPS school now with AP classes). It was included in a bigger survey about a lot of things but one of the data points that was collected was feedback on the IB program, scheduling etc.

From what I remember working there, it was a school where everyone was very, very content. If anything, I found it to be a lot less drama than the school I worked at before (a high FARMS school) and my current school (a similar economic profile as Robinson).

One thing people forget about Robinson (and Woodson, Lake Braddock and Fairfax) is MANY of these kids do dual enrollment classes at Mason (where the professors are accessible in person). I was surprised by this fact when I taught there.

From what I also recall, I think the 20 percent IB completion stat was pretty accurate and huge considering how many students that is by raw number. There was a large cohort of kids who did the program and families who supported it.

Honestly, the main complaints I heard where about just access to guidance counselors, college app support, etc. This is a HUGE school and kids who need a lot of support sometimes had a harder time there (I felt like my high FARMS high school did the best job supporting kids fwiw).

[Anonymous]

So considering this, I guess this thread will die and we can go back to bashing poor people and minorities, huh? /sarc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So considering this, I guess this thread will die and we can go back to bashing poor people and minorities, huh? /sarc.

Survey was some time ago and we would need to know more about how it was structured. And the response rate. Such a survey could easily be swayed if response numbers were low.

Maybe in the end Robinson stays as one of the IB schools along with 2 or 3 others. Basically cut the number in half.

Certainly the concentration of IB schools in the eastern portion of the county needs to be reviewed. Those schools have lousy IB metrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually Region 4 did this survey about ten years ago at Robinson and the overwhelming consensus was that families wanted to keep IB at Robinson (this is from my memory working there, I work at a different FCPS school now with AP classes). It was included in a bigger survey about a lot of things but one of the data points that was collected was feedback on the IB program, scheduling etc.

From what I remember working there, it was a school where everyone was very, very content. If anything, I found it to be a lot less drama than the school I worked at before (a high FARMS school) and my current school (a similar economic profile as Robinson).

One thing people forget about Robinson (and Woodson, Lake Braddock and Fairfax) is MANY of these kids do dual enrollment classes at Mason (where the professors are accessible in person). I was surprised by this fact when I taught there.

From what I also recall, I think the 20 percent IB completion stat was pretty accurate and huge considering how many students that is by raw number. There was a large cohort of kids who did the program and families who supported it.

Honestly, the main complaints I heard where about just access to guidance counselors, college app support, etc. This is a HUGE school and kids who need a lot of support sometimes had a harder time there (I felt like my high FARMS high school did the best job supporting kids fwiw).

Seems like the survey should request feedback from families in the pyramid and not just families already with kids at Robinson.