Stanford Sued After Following Another Student Suicide

[Anonymous]

Such an unnecessary tragedy. The timeline and language are both so punitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What an awful, horrifying situation. I can't judge the validity of the lawsuit, but it seems like there were just huge, tragic missteps on everyone's side - whatever the merits of the disciplinary case, it seems really badly handled from start to finish. And it sounds like the family knew that her anxiety and perfectionism was pretty extreme. And maybe most horrifying - the implication that this kind of neurosis is the norm for students at elite universities. What a nightmare. I'm glad my kids are not in that world.

I don’t think you realize how easily someone else’s ill intent can drag anyone- including kids who “are not in that world”- into a similar situation. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, but this isn’t about perfectionism. It’s about being trapped in a bureaucratic machine with unclear options for justice or resolution and no obvious path out. As an adult professional, I’ve been similarly cornered at work and could only get out because I already had a degree, had a relative degree of financial independence, and had sufficient life experience to understand which bad option was the best path forward.

This isn’t a situation exclusive to elite schools or high-achieving students, that’s just why we’re hearing about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It’s all so sad, but the lawsuit is entirely off base and isn’t going to bring peace to her family, unfortunately.

I don't think they're filing to bring peace to their family but rather a deep desire to change Stanford's disciplinary process, to save another young adult from suffering a mental health crisis associated with this poorly designed disciplinary system.

It appears they are trying to bring light to the overly punitive nature of Stanford's OCR process that was supposed to have been reformed several years ago. Lots of evidence suggesting that none of those reforms were implemented and that the handling of Katie's case should have been different. Also the indiscriminate nature of how disciplinary proceedings are addressed on campus --for some students, transgressions get overlooked while others face a drawn-out punitive process...there's no objective logic to who faces the former vs the latter. A few years ago an internal panel recommended the OCR process become more educational vs punitive (eg, how about a moderated intervention to address the coffee incident, note first offense, a path to make amends, not an adversarial 6-month legal process threatening her degree). Address the infraction for sure, but in a more constructive way. This was a young women with an exemplary track record both as a student, an athlete and an inspirational leader, with no previous disciplinary record. Stanford's handling of the situation was out of line. While I think it's highly unlikely the school would be found liable for her death, there is a LOT they can and should change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s all so sad, but the lawsuit is entirely off base and isn’t going to bring peace to her family, unfortunately.

I don't think they're filing to bring peace to their family but rather a deep desire to change Stanford's disciplinary process, to save another young adult from suffering a mental health crisis associated with this poorly designed disciplinary system.

It appears they are trying to bring light to the overly punitive nature of Stanford's OCR process that was supposed to have been reformed several years ago. Lots of evidence suggesting that none of those reforms were implemented and that the handling of Katie's case should have been different. Also the indiscriminate nature of how disciplinary proceedings are addressed on campus --for some students, transgressions get overlooked while others face a drawn-out punitive process...there's no objective logic to who faces the former vs the latter. A few years ago an internal panel recommended the OCR process become more educational vs punitive (eg, how about a moderated intervention to address the coffee incident, note first offense, a path to make amends, not an adversarial 6-month legal process threatening her degree). Address the infraction for sure, but in a more constructive way. This was a young women with an exemplary track record both as a student, an athlete and an inspirational leader, with no previous disciplinary record. Stanford's handling of the situation was out of line. While I think it's highly unlikely the school would be found liable for her death, there is a LOT they can and should change.

That isn’t what it looks like to me, it looks like they are looking for someone, anyone to blame for her suicide. I certainly can understand their pain but it just seems misguided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s all so sad, but the lawsuit is entirely off base and isn’t going to bring peace to her family, unfortunately.

I don't think they're filing to bring peace to their family but rather a deep desire to change Stanford's disciplinary process, to save another young adult from suffering a mental health crisis associated with this poorly designed disciplinary system.

It appears they are trying to bring light to the overly punitive nature of Stanford's OCR process that was supposed to have been reformed several years ago. Lots of evidence suggesting that none of those reforms were implemented and that the handling of Katie's case should have been different. Also the indiscriminate nature of how disciplinary proceedings are addressed on campus --for some students, transgressions get overlooked while others face a drawn-out punitive process...there's no objective logic to who faces the former vs the latter. A few years ago an internal panel recommended the OCR process become more educational vs punitive (eg, how about a moderated intervention to address the coffee incident, note first offense, a path to make amends, not an adversarial 6-month legal process threatening her degree). Address the infraction for sure, but in a more constructive way. This was a young women with an exemplary track record both as a student, an athlete and an inspirational leader, with no previous disciplinary record. Stanford's handling of the situation was out of line. While I think it's highly unlikely the school would be found liable for her death, there is a LOT they can and should change.

That isn’t what it looks like to me, it looks like they are looking for someone, anyone to blame for her suicide. I certainly can understand their pain but it just seems misguided.

You are in ZERO position to tell that family that their lawsuit is misguided. No one on here has personal knowledge of what happened and who did what. Reading the headlines or spending 2 min. glancing through a story is not personal knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[ It’s about being trapped in a bureaucratic machine with unclear options for justice or resolution and no obvious path out. As an adult professional, I’ve been similarly cornered at work and could only get out because I already had a degree, had a relative degree of financial independence, and had sufficient life experience to understand which bad option was the best path forward.

EXACTLY.

It's really hard to describe the depths of despair a person can feel when they feel entrapped with no way out. Such a senseless tragedy.
The draconian response was completely unnecessary and I can't imagine the pain her family must feel as they contemplate all the ways the university could have handled the situation that could have led to a different outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s all so sad, but the lawsuit is entirely off base and isn’t going to bring peace to her family, unfortunately.

I don't think they're filing to bring peace to their family but rather a deep desire to change Stanford's disciplinary process, to save another young adult from suffering a mental health crisis associated with this poorly designed disciplinary system.

It appears they are trying to bring light to the overly punitive nature of Stanford's OCR process that was supposed to have been reformed several years ago. Lots of evidence suggesting that none of those reforms were implemented and that the handling of Katie's case should have been different. Also the indiscriminate nature of how disciplinary proceedings are addressed on campus --for some students, transgressions get overlooked while others face a drawn-out punitive process...there's no objective logic to who faces the former vs the latter. A few years ago an internal panel recommended the OCR process become more educational vs punitive (eg, how about a moderated intervention to address the coffee incident, note first offense, a path to make amends, not an adversarial 6-month legal process threatening her degree). Address the infraction for sure, but in a more constructive way. This was a young women with an exemplary track record both as a student, an athlete and an inspirational leader, with no previous disciplinary record. Stanford's handling of the situation was out of line. While I think it's highly unlikely the school would be found liable for her death, there is a LOT they can and should change.

That isn’t what it looks like to me, it looks like they are looking for someone, anyone to blame for her suicide. I certainly can understand their pain but it just seems misguided.

You are in ZERO position to tell that family that their lawsuit is misguided. No one on here has personal knowledge of what happened and who did what. Reading the headlines or spending 2 min. glancing through a story is not personal knowledge.

I am expressing my own personal opinion, and that is what happens when you file a complaint and then seek publicity for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://news.stanford.edu/2022/11/25/information-lawsuit-family-katie-meyer/

Stanford's response.

Once the family learns the evidence against their daughter, this matter may come to a swift resolution.

Everyone regards this as an unnecessary tragedy.

Are you one of Stanford's attorneys?

You write in the same style as their lawyers.

Stanford's statement is cold at best.

After reading the complaint, I'm convinced the university is at least partly responsible for Katie's death.

I'd say Stanford demonstrated cruelty and inexcusable indifference to Katie's suffering during the disciplinary process they put her through.

What a terrible, entirely preventable tragedy. My heart goes out to the grieving parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://news.stanford.edu/2022/11/25/information-lawsuit-family-katie-meyer/

Stanford's response.

Once the family learns the evidence against their daughter, this matter may come to a swift resolution.

Everyone regards this as an unnecessary tragedy.

Are you one of Stanford's attorneys?

You write in the same style as their lawyers.

Stanford's statement is cold at best.

After reading the complaint, I'm convinced the university is at least partly responsible for Katie's death.

I'd say Stanford demonstrated cruelty and inexcusable indifference to Katie's suffering during the disciplinary process they put her through.

What a terrible, entirely preventable tragedy. My heart goes out to the grieving parents.

+1 well said

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Such an unnecessary tragedy. The timeline and language are both so punitive.

How the university could be so heartless and uncaring toward Katie when it knew about her mental health struggles is shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s all so sad, but the lawsuit is entirely off base and isn’t going to bring peace to her family, unfortunately.

I don't think they're filing to bring peace to their family but rather a deep desire to change Stanford's disciplinary process, to save another young adult from suffering a mental health crisis associated with this poorly designed disciplinary system.

It appears they are trying to bring light to the overly punitive nature of Stanford's OCR process that was supposed to have been reformed several years ago. Lots of evidence suggesting that none of those reforms were implemented and that the handling of Katie's case should have been different. Also the indiscriminate nature of how disciplinary proceedings are addressed on campus --for some students, transgressions get overlooked while others face a drawn-out punitive process...there's no objective logic to who faces the former vs the latter. A few years ago an internal panel recommended the OCR process become more educational vs punitive (eg, how about a moderated intervention to address the coffee incident, note first offense, a path to make amends, not an adversarial 6-month legal process threatening her degree). Address the infraction for sure, but in a more constructive way. This was a young women with an exemplary track record both as a student, an athlete and an inspirational leader, with no previous disciplinary record. Stanford's handling of the situation was out of line. While I think it's highly unlikely the school would be found liable for her death, there is a LOT they can and should change.

Well said.

They are trying to shine sunlight on some awful practices at Stanford. That’s why Stanford has come out swinging: they want the family to know they will fight dirty.

[Anonymous]

From Katie’s own words:

“My whole life I’ve been terrified to make any mistakes,” she wrote. “No alcohol, no speeding tickets, no A- marks on my report cards. Everything had to be perfect to get in and stay at Stanford. I suffer from anxiety and perfectionism, as so many female athletes do. We know all too well that in professional settings women have everything to lose and have to work twice as hard to prove that they are qualified and professional, and any mistake is magnified, any attitude of assertiveness is demonized.”

********
The whole thing is tragic. The coffee was spilled a week after the sexual assault and 6 days after the sexual assault was reported to Stanford’s Title IX office. The idea that she just happened to be riding a bike next to this ass and her coffee spilled on him is unbelievable. 99.9% chance she did it on purpose. She was a tightly wound young adult who probably never faced real adversity in life off the playing field.

My guess is that at 22 this wasn’t the first time she had done something like “spilling” coffee on someone she had a dispute with but it was probably the first time she faced consequences for her actions.

Stanford’s process was likely overbearing. But a lot of people have been expelled from college without killing themselves. That she didn’t call her parents or her sisters probably says something here.

The complaint reads . . . poorly. When you’re highlighting that an adverse email was sent at night when it was dark to a student alone her dorm room in order to build a negligence case, well, your case isn’t going anywhere. Is Stanford only supposed to send adverse emails during daylight hours while students are in the company of others? Give me a break.

I feel for the parents and I understand that they have to make sense of this, but this is going to be worse once Stanford defends itself.

[Anonymous]

To 1:44: Your attempt to paint Katie Meyer as some kind of person with a long history of intentional wrongdoing is laughable. I don’t have the restraint to not mention the actual, proven long history of Stanford male athletes who have been protected by the very disciplinary system that went after Katie Meyer for her “actions”, as you call them. This is the same disciplinary system that agreed a football player had committed rape based on the actual accusations of the alleged victim (not a Dean who heard it via a 3rd party!), yet didn’t take disciplinary action against him:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/sports/football/stanford-football-rape-accusation.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Katie Meyer’s parents have nothing to lose because they’ve already lost everything. If you think they’ll back down because they’re afraid of what big scary Stanford can do, you don’t understand anything about this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother graduated from Stanford and first exhibited signs of schizophrenia-like mental illness while there. I later found evidence that he had been diagnosed while still a student. My family was never alerted. He proceeded to fall apart and explode his life in his 20s. He has still not gotten help/medication and has never supported himself…. The fact he was a Stanford graduate went from a badge of honor and achievement to a weight around his neck— a medal he would never live up to.

Privacy laws prohibit schools from telling parents about their student's health matters.

A different poster but I found medical personnel under HIPPA understood how to inform families more than a University under FERPA. Medical personnel ask for waivers all the time. University never bothers.

Hello, vast majority of people with serious mental illnesses have no knowledge that they are ill. They’re not in denial, they don’t know. Luckily the mentally I’ll get to enjoy street freedom thanks to these terrible laws.

It’s not HIPPA. It’s HIPAA.

And no, you are not getting health information of any kind from a university unless your adult child personally signs a waiver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many men accused of sexual assault at Stanford received an email threatening to withhold their diploma? I would be shocked if it were any. Certainly if a woman decides not to file a complaint, there is no discipline.

Meanwhile, she spills coffee. He doesn’t file a complaint. And Stanford still goes for the nuclear option. That’s an absurd over reaction. Did they learn nothing from Brock Turner?

I’m so furious. I was part of a similar incident at Dartmouth. The deans tried to push me into the campus disciplinary system and were pissed when I went to the Hanover police and asked to press charges. I was repeatedly asked by an administrator responsible for my access to course registration and on-campus job recruiting to drop the charges because it would be “better” to deal with it on campus. For them.

In the end, I stayed on campus during a break to testify in court. Unfortunately the prosecutor accepted a plea deal the day before. The incident- in which I had done nothing- ultimately affected my recruiting and my life after graduation.

Rest in peace, Katie Meyer. I hate what they did to her and respect her so much- anyone who doesn’t understand the power an institution has over its students in this kind of scenario is ignorant and naive. I wish they hadn’t cornered her like this.

How is this remotely similar? You were the victim, Katie was alleged to be the assailant.

The point is that universities should NOT be allowed to handle these situations.

The real problem is that the original sexual which was reported on campus was ignored by the university, and none of this might have happened if the university had properly addressed the sexual assault! Instead, Stanford, Dartmouth, and a host of other universities have broken extralegal disciplinary processes that do nothing but serve the university and its PR. Imagine if the original assailant had been punished? Instead he’s walking free and a girl who stood up for her friend was dragged into a convoluted, opaque system of punishment.

Adults don’t “stand up for their friends” by committing assault (yes, that’s what it is) and deliberately burning someone with a hot liquid. No. Sorry.