Stanford Sued After Following Another Student Suicide

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://news.stanford.edu/2022/11/25/information-lawsuit-family-katie-meyer/

Stanford's response.

Once the family learns the evidence against their daughter, this matter may come to a swift resolution.

Everyone regards this as an unnecessary tragedy.

I read this as Stanford attempting to intimidate the family.

FWIW I live near Stanford and the general feeling around here is that is what Stanford has done.

Luckily the legal system does not care about “the general feeling” of random people in the neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Stanford should be held liable for this. Utterly callous and negligent. Young adults when put in vulnerable positions aren’t in a position to think rationally. Their brains are not fully developed yet.

What’s more shocking is Stanford’s reaction to this. A family lost their daughter forever!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s all so sad, but the lawsuit is entirely off base and isn’t going to bring peace to her family, unfortunately.

I don't think they're filing to bring peace to their family but rather a deep desire to change Stanford's disciplinary process, to save another young adult from suffering a mental health crisis associated with this poorly designed disciplinary system.

It appears they are trying to bring light to the overly punitive nature of Stanford's OCR process that was supposed to have been reformed several years ago. Lots of evidence suggesting that none of those reforms were implemented and that the handling of Katie's case should have been different. Also the indiscriminate nature of how disciplinary proceedings are addressed on campus --for some students, transgressions get overlooked while others face a drawn-out punitive process...there's no objective logic to who faces the former vs the latter. A few years ago an internal panel recommended the OCR process become more educational vs punitive (eg, how about a moderated intervention to address the coffee incident, note first offense, a path to make amends, not an adversarial 6-month legal process threatening her degree). Address the infraction for sure, but in a more constructive way. This was a young women with an exemplary track record both as a student, an athlete and an inspirational leader, with no previous disciplinary record. Stanford's handling of the situation was out of line. While I think it's highly unlikely the school would be found liable for her death, there is a LOT they can and should change.

That isn’t what it looks like to me, it looks like they are looking for someone, anyone to blame for her suicide. I certainly can understand their pain but it just seems misguided.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s all so sad, but the lawsuit is entirely off base and isn’t going to bring peace to her family, unfortunately.

I don't think they're filing to bring peace to their family but rather a deep desire to change Stanford's disciplinary process, to save another young adult from suffering a mental health crisis associated with this poorly designed disciplinary system.

It appears they are trying to bring light to the overly punitive nature of Stanford's OCR process that was supposed to have been reformed several years ago. Lots of evidence suggesting that none of those reforms were implemented and that the handling of Katie's case should have been different. Also the indiscriminate nature of how disciplinary proceedings are addressed on campus --for some students, transgressions get overlooked while others face a drawn-out punitive process...there's no objective logic to who faces the former vs the latter. A few years ago an internal panel recommended the OCR process become more educational vs punitive (eg, how about a moderated intervention to address the coffee incident, note first offense, a path to make amends, not an adversarial 6-month legal process threatening her degree). Address the infraction for sure, but in a more constructive way. This was a young women with an exemplary track record both as a student, an athlete and an inspirational leader, with no previous disciplinary record. Stanford's handling of the situation was out of line. While I think it's highly unlikely the school would be found liable for her death, there is a LOT they can and should change.

That isn’t what it looks like to me, it looks like they are looking for someone, anyone to blame for her suicide. I certainly can understand their pain but it just seems misguided.

You are in ZERO position to tell that family that their lawsuit is misguided. No one on here has personal knowledge of what happened and who did what. Reading the headlines or spending 2 min. glancing through a story is not personal knowledge.

I am expressing my own personal opinion, and that is what happens when you file a complaint and then seek publicity for it.

DP. I agree. Some people will read that Stanford badgered a fragile, young adult with a bright future over an accident until the stress levels were so high, she felt suicide was the only answer. Some will see that a student assaulted and injured another student, was given opportunities to work with the university and didn’t, was informed the university was moving forward with disciplinary action, and committed suicide. The family is putting this out there and publicizing it, they can’t control how the public reads/reacts to the story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s all so sad, but the lawsuit is entirely off base and isn’t going to bring peace to her family, unfortunately.

I don't think they're filing to bring peace to their family but rather a deep desire to change Stanford's disciplinary process, to save another young adult from suffering a mental health crisis associated with this poorly designed disciplinary system.

It appears they are trying to bring light to the overly punitive nature of Stanford's OCR process that was supposed to have been reformed several years ago. Lots of evidence suggesting that none of those reforms were implemented and that the handling of Katie's case should have been different. Also the indiscriminate nature of how disciplinary proceedings are addressed on campus --for some students, transgressions get overlooked while others face a drawn-out punitive process...there's no objective logic to who faces the former vs the latter. A few years ago an internal panel recommended the OCR process become more educational vs punitive (eg, how about a moderated intervention to address the coffee incident, note first offense, a path to make amends, not an adversarial 6-month legal process threatening her degree). Address the infraction for sure, but in a more constructive way. This was a young women with an exemplary track record both as a student, an athlete and an inspirational leader, with no previous disciplinary record. Stanford's handling of the situation was out of line. While I think it's highly unlikely the school would be found liable for her death, there is a LOT they can and should change.

Although I think that the soccer player ignored several opportunities to deal with this matter as a responsible young adult, I do agree with the post above that Stanford needs to change the school's mental health protocol. Nevertheless, Stanford University is an institution of higher education--not a health facility for those unable to cope with their psychological difficulties.

[Anonymous]

In the instant case, the crux of the matter is that the soccer player initiated the chain of events, then refused to accept responsibility in an adult-like manner instead ignoring the matter and the disciplinary process. It seems somewhat ironic that this individual wanted to attend Stanford's law school. While this may appear to some as a cold-hearted statement, it--and the evidence against the soccer player for her assault on the football player (maybe a misguided attempt at vigilante justice ?)--is what will be addressed by the legal proceedings. Actions have consequences. The university is not responsible for the psychological difficulties faced by community members; trying to blame the university for the soccer player's mental instability and inability to accept responsibility for her actions is misguided although I do believe that Stanford University needs to revise its mental health protocol. This is a tragedy--an unnecessary tragedy.

[Anonymous]

If I had to guess, I would expect to find that the culture of high stake sports had more to do with her stress level then the disciplinary proceeding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://news.stanford.edu/2022/11/25/information-lawsuit-family-katie-meyer/

Stanford's response.

Once the family learns the evidence against their daughter, this matter may come to a swift resolution.

Everyone regards this as an unnecessary tragedy.

I read this as Stanford attempting to intimidate the family.

FWIW I live near Stanford and the general feeling around here is that is what Stanford has done.

Luckily the legal system does not care about “the general feeling” of random people in the neighborhood.

The neighbors' general feeling is what the rest of the californians think about this school. PP's in love because s/he's blind by its "prestige" and its PR.

[Anonymous]

Back of the envelope calculation: the suicide rate in the population is roughly 1/2000 each year. I think Stanford has around 2000 students per class.There are 4 classes on campus in any given year so 8000 plus three classes that went through since 2019 is 14000. So you would expect 7 suicides, all other things being equal. 9 isn't going to be statistically significant. Given the rate of mental health issues at these schools, it might even be low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back of the envelope calculation: the suicide rate in the population is roughly 1/2000 each year. I think Stanford has around 2000 students per class.There are 4 classes on campus in any given year so 8000 plus three classes that went through since 2019 is 14000. So you would expect 7 suicides, all other things being equal. 9 isn't going to be statistically significant. Given the rate of mental health issues at these schools, it might even be low.

.

Several were grad students.

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that this threatened punishment was excessively punitive and should not have been communicated by email given the prior notice the university had of her heightened stress AND suicidal thoughts. I think the university is at fault. Do I think it was an accident, of course not. Should she have admitted it and begged for forgiveness, maybe. But for all she had done for the university, she deserved a slip up. Her mistake just pales in comparison to all the positivity AND the victim was not asking for justice, he wanted the issue dropped. Shame of Stanford for using her as an example. I believe it was bullying. They had so many opportunities to protect her but chose to make an example out of her. If she had been a male football player, it would not have happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://news.stanford.edu/2022/11/25/information-lawsuit-family-katie-meyer/

Stanford's response.

Once the family learns the evidence against their daughter, this matter may come to a swift resolution.

Everyone regards this as an unnecessary tragedy.

What evidence against Katie? Specifically? What do you think Stanford knows that Katie’s family doesn’t about her “behavior”. If you read the WaPo article and this thread, Stanford’s response contains exactly no new information.

Not that poster, but the press release responds to all of the allegations in the complaint and sets forth both the opportunities Katie had to present evidence and the various types of assistance that were offered to her. It also makes clear the allegation against her were far more serious than her parents represented.

Please point to where it makes clear that the allegations against her are more serious than her parents represented.

Her parents refer to it as spilt coffee, the Stanford press release refers to hot coffee that caused physical injury.

From the Stanford statement:

Stanford’s Office of Community Standards (OCS) received a complaint regarding alleged behavior by Katie that resulted in physical injury, and as is the practice of the office, it launched a review of that allegation. After extensive factfinding and the opportunity for both sides to provide information, it was found that the high threshold was met for the matter to proceed to a hearing. However, it is important to emphasize that we are committed to supporting students through the student judicial process under OCS, and we did so in this case. In particular, the university offered Katie an advisor to work with her throughout the process and told her she could have a support person of her choosing with her in any meeting or conversation with OCS.

When did they offer these things? In November? Or in the 2/28 email?

[Anonymous]

If there was more to the incident than the spilled coffee, wouldn’t Stanford put those allegations in the 2/28 email as well? Katie had a right to know the full charges levied against her. It appears from the complaint that the family has the 2/28 email. If there was more to all of this, as Stanford claims, it should have been outlined in that email.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To 1:44: Your attempt to paint Katie Meyer as some kind of person with a long history of intentional wrongdoing is laughable. I don’t have the restraint to not mention the actual, proven long history of Stanford male athletes who have been protected by the very disciplinary system that went after Katie Meyer for her “actions”, as you call them. This is the same disciplinary system that agreed a football player had committed rape based on the actual accusations of the alleged victim (not a Dean who heard it via a 3rd party!), yet didn’t take disciplinary action against him:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/sports/football/stanford-football-rape-accusation.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Katie Meyer’s parents have nothing to lose because they’ve already lost everything. If you think they’ll back down because they’re afraid of what big scary Stanford can do, you don’t understand anything about this case.

+1

They also have the deep support of the entire local community. I live near Stanford and nobody is going to believe Stanford here when they drag Katie’s name through the mud in attempt to hide the truth. We all already blame Stanford. It is not beloved locally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stanford should be held liable for this. Utterly callous and negligent. Young adults when put in vulnerable positions aren’t in a position to think rationally. Their brains are not fully developed yet.

What’s more shocking is Stanford’s reaction to this. A family lost their daughter forever!

Agree. But I am not surprised. Schools are terrible at getting students the help they need. Plus, once the school even tries to help (which is most of why they don't) - the school can be held more liable. The students are adults at 18, and the schools simply do not want the responsibility. Awful.