Is Johns Hopkins still desirable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

Agreed. It would be great to know about the crossover and head-to-head results on more of these large merit offers!

Yes all these programs are great. I knew a kid who turned down Duke and Caltech for UPenn Jerome Fisher M&T even though they would not have picked Penn otherwise. I also know a kid who turned down Harvard, Princeton, Wharton, and other scholarships for a scholarship to Duke who would not have picked Duke over Harvard. These programs definitely do their job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once acceptances are out, the balance of power negotiation wise changes quite a bit. I've heard of Harvard and Stanford being willing to play ball (especially with cross admits). Many schools have merit programs but they will also have financial aid take a look at things again in terms of need too if you really want to make it work and an award is a little higher elsewhere.

OK, this is a complete word salad. Let's get real people...how many of you on this board have a kid been, in or going to one of these schools. If not shut your mouth, your input is worthless. Yes, JHU is still an amazing university, your kid would be honored to be accepted and attend.

Truth. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once acceptances are out, the balance of power negotiation wise changes quite a bit. I've heard of Harvard and Stanford being willing to play ball (especially with cross admits). Many schools have merit programs but they will also have financial aid take a look at things again in terms of need too if you really want to make it work and an award is a little higher elsewhere.

OK, this is a complete word salad. Let's get real people...how many of you on this board have a kid been, in or going to one of these schools. If not shut your mouth, your input is worthless. Yes, JHU is still an amazing university, your kid would be honored to be accepted and attend.

Truth. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once acceptances are out, the balance of power negotiation wise changes quite a bit. I've heard of Harvard and Stanford being willing to play ball (especially with cross admits). Many schools have merit programs but they will also have financial aid take a look at things again in terms of need too if you really want to make it work and an award is a little higher elsewhere.

OK, this is a complete word salad. Let's get real people...how many of you on this board have a kid been, in or going to one of these schools. If not shut your mouth, your input is worthless. Yes, JHU is still an amazing university, your kid would be honored to be accepted and attend.

Truth. Thank you.

NP...why is this board so vitriolic? I never in my life have been to a place where JHU would be anything but a hard admit. I look at some of the other schools much maligned on this place and pray my kids can gain an acceptance. Who are you people that think 10 schools are the only avenues to success. It is quite weird...your life must be so sad.

[Anonymous]

The subject line of this whole thread is sad. Johns Hopkins is an amazing school and one of the best in the country (whether you think it is top 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or 30). It its obviously VERY desirable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Currently have a kid attending Hopkins and playing a sport. They absolutely love it and are having the time of their life. It was highly desirable for my kid and a perfect fit. But you do you.

That is great! Their mixed D1/3 athletic department has always struck me as an oddity. Even at the D3 level, they keep swimming out of a conference all together.

Hopkins fields strong teams in almost everything they compete in, so awesome to hear your kid is enjoying it.

Lacrosse is obviously the big sport on campus but the Hopkins Swarthmore basketball rivalry of the last 5 or so years has been exciting and is among the best in D3 (especially high-academic school wise).

I loved going to Hopkins basketball games as an undergrad because the kids on the team were my friends Also, let’s not forgot Hopkins basketball alum Andy Enfield is currently the head basketball coach at USC.

Enfield was great at Hopkins too! One of the best FT shooters ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.

Yale's problem is that while it has the humanities edge, kids are trending away from humanities.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/3/3/humanities-scrut/

I can see that being why Yale's feeling uneasy, since it has a lot more to lose. Princeton's in a better position since it has one of the best STEM programs in the Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

Agreed. It would be great to know about the crossover and head-to-head results on more of these large merit offers!

Yes all these programs are great. I knew a kid who turned down Duke and Caltech for UPenn Jerome Fisher M&T even though they would not have picked Penn otherwise. I also know a kid who turned down Harvard, Princeton, Wharton, and other scholarships for a scholarship to Duke who would not have picked Duke over Harvard. These programs definitely do their job.

Fisher m&t is a ridiculous program.

It’s like pe/vc-bootcamp. Very very very few people would turn it down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

Agreed. It would be great to know about the crossover and head-to-head results on more of these large merit offers!

Yes all these programs are great. I knew a kid who turned down Duke and Caltech for UPenn Jerome Fisher M&T even though they would not have picked Penn otherwise. I also know a kid who turned down Harvard, Princeton, Wharton, and other scholarships for a scholarship to Duke who would not have picked Duke over Harvard. These programs definitely do their job.

Fisher m&t is a ridiculous program.

It’s like pe/vc-bootcamp. Very very very few people would turn it down.

I think M&T offers ~50 spots a year, and ~35 of them are accepted. Usually ~20-25 spots are offered during early decision, which of course everyone accepts due to the binding nature of early decision. Then out of the 25-30 regular decision acceptances to M&T, about half accept a spot. Many kids still take Harvard, Stanford, and MIT over Jerome Fisher. And a few kids will turn down Jerome Fisher for a scholarship to Duke or Columbia, or even to be a regular student at Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The subject line of this whole thread is sad. Johns Hopkins is an amazing school and one of the best in the country (whether you think it is top 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or 30). It its obviously VERY desirable.

There is much outrage from some supporters of schools below #7 on the USNWR list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

I agree with you but why is Columbia out of the question? Penn and Duke I can see being difficult to overtake, but Columbia just had a massive scandal and fell all the way to 18 on USNWR. Surely that will hurt it, especially if it stays in that range for a long period of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

I agree with you but why is Columbia out of the question? Penn and Duke I can see being difficult to overtake, but Columbia just had a massive scandal and fell all the way to 18 on USNWR. Surely that will hurt it, especially if it stays in that range for a long period of time.

nyc

Even if it’s in morningside heights, it’s still nyc

Penn only is relevant because of the drug scene and access to finance and consulting jobs

Penn is the most overrated school in the country

[Anonymous]

Another one with a student at Hopkins. Kid wanted BME and knew JHU had a stellar program. So back to the topic of the post, yes JHU is still desirable to kids who want specific things. Where they are in the rankings on various lists - it's a starting point, not the end point.