Reading Groups

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of parents wanted a phonics based LA program. I was ecstatic when I heard that they were going to be doing word studies and focusing on spelling and grammar this year. The method that they were using worked for a small group of kids and left a lot of other kids struggling, not just the kids with dyslexia. DS is a smart, capable kid who has not had any corrections to his spelling or grammar in LA for the first 5 years he was in school. That is ridiculous. He knew how to spell the words correctly, we asked him to spell words for us when we saw papers from school, he wasn't doing it because the Teacher didn't correct it and he didn't care. It only started improving when we started making him redo work at home.

At the very least, the way FCPS had been teaching LA was allowing kids to be lazy and that was impacting their writing and reading as they got older. At worst, kids who were slow to read or had LDs struggled for a longer period of time then they needed to. That can cause issues with a kids self esteem and desire to learn.

I have no problem at my 5th grader who is ahead in reading and does well with comprehension and the like (high iReady's and Pass Advanced on the 2 SOLs he has taken, not that either of those are great measures) will be a better reader and writer with what they are doing now. Kids who are ahead in reading will still be in a higher reading group and will still be working on reading comprehension. He reads a lot at home and we discuss what he is reading. He is going to be fine.

What parents don’t understand is that phonics, spelling and grammar work should be combined with comprehension and understanding. Whatever, you are going to get phonics and spelling, but “content-rich” push is coming from companies that are pushing their curriculum. I

Know also that the reason why we don’t have science and social studies is that parents 15 years ago wanted to make sure all kids were reading and doing math, so they lobbied for more reading and math time and science and social studies were cut. Parents get what they ask for eventually, so be careful what you ask for because the education companies and legislature is listening. Because of this public schools will always leave something out for someone. As a previous poster said, “the pendulum has swung” enjoy that you are happy with its direction for the time being.

That is LITERALLY what those of us who are praising the science of reading are saying. It's just that reading comprehension lady can't comprehend this, LOL!!

“Reading comprehension lady”, aka me, has a masters in teaching and actually taught elementary in FCPS for years. I know what balanced literacy looks like. The fact is kids need both phonics and reading comprehension skills. As kids get older, though, the focus needs to be more on comprehension. What I am seeing at my child’s school right now is not balanced. I am seeing a mad rush to catch up on stuff that should have been done in K-2. My child is now way past that and is at ceiling with phonemic awareness. She doesn’t need to know open and closed syllables now. Other kids might, but she is bored. Her scores on nonfiction and fiction sections of standardized tests indicate she may need work on those areas. Not a disability by any means, but she needs to be practicing comprehension and answering questions about texts. I’m not seeing that at all so far. The fact is teachers are now catering to the lowest readers.

This is the beginning of October. The school year has barely started.

The fact is, the school year will get more interesting soon, for your DD and for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of parents wanted a phonics based LA program. I was ecstatic when I heard that they were going to be doing word studies and focusing on spelling and grammar this year. The method that they were using worked for a small group of kids and left a lot of other kids struggling, not just the kids with dyslexia. DS is a smart, capable kid who has not had any corrections to his spelling or grammar in LA for the first 5 years he was in school. That is ridiculous. He knew how to spell the words correctly, we asked him to spell words for us when we saw papers from school, he wasn't doing it because the Teacher didn't correct it and he didn't care. It only started improving when we started making him redo work at home.

At the very least, the way FCPS had been teaching LA was allowing kids to be lazy and that was impacting their writing and reading as they got older. At worst, kids who were slow to read or had LDs struggled for a longer period of time then they needed to. That can cause issues with a kids self esteem and desire to learn.

I have no problem at my 5th grader who is ahead in reading and does well with comprehension and the like (high iReady's and Pass Advanced on the 2 SOLs he has taken, not that either of those are great measures) will be a better reader and writer with what they are doing now. Kids who are ahead in reading will still be in a higher reading group and will still be working on reading comprehension. He reads a lot at home and we discuss what he is reading. He is going to be fine.

What parents don’t understand is that phonics, spelling and grammar work should be combined with comprehension and understanding. Whatever, you are going to get phonics and spelling, but “content-rich” push is coming from companies that are pushing their curriculum. I

Know also that the reason why we don’t have science and social studies is that parents 15 years ago wanted to make sure all kids were reading and doing math, so they lobbied for more reading and math time and science and social studies were cut. Parents get what they ask for eventually, so be careful what you ask for because the education companies and legislature is listening. Because of this public schools will always leave something out for someone. As a previous poster said, “the pendulum has swung” enjoy that you are happy with its direction for the time being.

That is LITERALLY what those of us who are praising the science of reading are saying. It's just that reading comprehension lady can't comprehend this, LOL!!

“Reading comprehension lady”, aka me, has a masters in teaching and actually taught elementary in FCPS for years. I know what balanced literacy looks like. The fact is kids need both phonics and reading comprehension skills. As kids get older, though, the focus needs to be more on comprehension. What I am seeing at my child’s school right now is not balanced. I am seeing a mad rush to catch up on stuff that should have been done in K-2. My child is now way past that and is at ceiling with phonemic awareness. She doesn’t need to know open and closed syllables now. Other kids might, but she is bored. Her scores on nonfiction and fiction sections of standardized tests indicate she may need work on those areas. Not a disability by any means, but she needs to be practicing comprehension and answering questions about texts. I’m not seeing that at all so far. The fact is teachers are now catering to the lowest readers.

So your kid might be bored if she is explicitly taught phonics. If mine isn't explicitly taught phonics he might fail out of school and never be literate. The stakes are not even here. I know you want the world for your child - we all do. But being resentful that parents of children with disabilities have been successful in some small measure in advocating for adequate instruction for their children, because it may mean your already advanced child doesn't get even more advancement...well, that's a pretty hard pill to swallow. BTW, my kid hates learning phonics as much as yours does. It is never fun. It is as boring as watching paint dry. He'd much rather do more science and social studies, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of parents wanted a phonics based LA program. I was ecstatic when I heard that they were going to be doing word studies and focusing on spelling and grammar this year. The method that they were using worked for a small group of kids and left a lot of other kids struggling, not just the kids with dyslexia. DS is a smart, capable kid who has not had any corrections to his spelling or grammar in LA for the first 5 years he was in school. That is ridiculous. He knew how to spell the words correctly, we asked him to spell words for us when we saw papers from school, he wasn't doing it because the Teacher didn't correct it and he didn't care. It only started improving when we started making him redo work at home.

At the very least, the way FCPS had been teaching LA was allowing kids to be lazy and that was impacting their writing and reading as they got older. At worst, kids who were slow to read or had LDs struggled for a longer period of time then they needed to. That can cause issues with a kids self esteem and desire to learn.

I have no problem at my 5th grader who is ahead in reading and does well with comprehension and the like (high iReady's and Pass Advanced on the 2 SOLs he has taken, not that either of those are great measures) will be a better reader and writer with what they are doing now. Kids who are ahead in reading will still be in a higher reading group and will still be working on reading comprehension. He reads a lot at home and we discuss what he is reading. He is going to be fine.

What parents don’t understand is that phonics, spelling and grammar work should be combined with comprehension and understanding. Whatever, you are going to get phonics and spelling, but “content-rich” push is coming from companies that are pushing their curriculum. I

Know also that the reason why we don’t have science and social studies is that parents 15 years ago wanted to make sure all kids were reading and doing math, so they lobbied for more reading and math time and science and social studies were cut. Parents get what they ask for eventually, so be careful what you ask for because the education companies and legislature is listening. Because of this public schools will always leave something out for someone. As a previous poster said, “the pendulum has swung” enjoy that you are happy with its direction for the time being.

That is LITERALLY what those of us who are praising the science of reading are saying. It's just that reading comprehension lady can't comprehend this, LOL!!

“Reading comprehension lady”, aka me, has a masters in teaching and actually taught elementary in FCPS for years. I know what balanced literacy looks like. The fact is kids need both phonics and reading comprehension skills. As kids get older, though, the focus needs to be more on comprehension. What I am seeing at my child’s school right now is not balanced. I am seeing a mad rush to catch up on stuff that should have been done in K-2. My child is now way past that and is at ceiling with phonemic awareness. She doesn’t need to know open and closed syllables now. Other kids might, but she is bored. Her scores on nonfiction and fiction sections of standardized tests indicate she may need work on those areas. Not a disability by any means, but she needs to be practicing comprehension and answering questions about texts. I’m not seeing that at all so far. The fact is teachers are now catering to the lowest readers.

This is the beginning of October. The school year has barely started.

The fact is, the school year will get more interesting soon, for your DD and for you.

Can you explain why you think phonics work SHOULDN’T be differentiated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of parents wanted a phonics based LA program. I was ecstatic when I heard that they were going to be doing word studies and focusing on spelling and grammar this year. The method that they were using worked for a small group of kids and left a lot of other kids struggling, not just the kids with dyslexia. DS is a smart, capable kid who has not had any corrections to his spelling or grammar in LA for the first 5 years he was in school. That is ridiculous. He knew how to spell the words correctly, we asked him to spell words for us when we saw papers from school, he wasn't doing it because the Teacher didn't correct it and he didn't care. It only started improving when we started making him redo work at home.

At the very least, the way FCPS had been teaching LA was allowing kids to be lazy and that was impacting their writing and reading as they got older. At worst, kids who were slow to read or had LDs struggled for a longer period of time then they needed to. That can cause issues with a kids self esteem and desire to learn.

I have no problem at my 5th grader who is ahead in reading and does well with comprehension and the like (high iReady's and Pass Advanced on the 2 SOLs he has taken, not that either of those are great measures) will be a better reader and writer with what they are doing now. Kids who are ahead in reading will still be in a higher reading group and will still be working on reading comprehension. He reads a lot at home and we discuss what he is reading. He is going to be fine.

What parents don’t understand is that phonics, spelling and grammar work should be combined with comprehension and understanding. Whatever, you are going to get phonics and spelling, but “content-rich” push is coming from companies that are pushing their curriculum. I

Know also that the reason why we don’t have science and social studies is that parents 15 years ago wanted to make sure all kids were reading and doing math, so they lobbied for more reading and math time and science and social studies were cut. Parents get what they ask for eventually, so be careful what you ask for because the education companies and legislature is listening. Because of this public schools will always leave something out for someone. As a previous poster said, “the pendulum has swung” enjoy that you are happy with its direction for the time being.

That is LITERALLY what those of us who are praising the science of reading are saying. It's just that reading comprehension lady can't comprehend this, LOL!!

“Reading comprehension lady”, aka me, has a masters in teaching and actually taught elementary in FCPS for years. I know what balanced literacy looks like. The fact is kids need both phonics and reading comprehension skills. As kids get older, though, the focus needs to be more on comprehension. What I am seeing at my child’s school right now is not balanced. I am seeing a mad rush to catch up on stuff that should have been done in K-2. My child is now way past that and is at ceiling with phonemic awareness. She doesn’t need to know open and closed syllables now. Other kids might, but she is bored. Her scores on nonfiction and fiction sections of standardized tests indicate she may need work on those areas. Not a disability by any means, but she needs to be practicing comprehension and answering questions about texts. I’m not seeing that at all so far. The fact is teachers are now catering to the lowest readers.

So your kid might be bored if she is explicitly taught phonics. If mine isn't explicitly taught phonics he might fail out of school and never be literate. The stakes are not even here. I know you want the world for your child - we all do. But being resentful that parents of children with disabilities have been successful in some small measure in advocating for adequate instruction for their children, because it may mean your already advanced child doesn't get even more advancement...well, that's a pretty hard pill to swallow. BTW, my kid hates learning phonics as much as yours does. It is never fun. It is as boring as watching paint dry. He'd much rather do more science and social studies, too.

Please explain this. No one is resentful of you or your child. We can be resentful that the current manufactured curriculums don’t differentiate phonics instruction without being resentful that your child needs help. How are those two things the same? We can be resentful that FCPS is choosing to do phonics in a way that will be boring without resenting your CHILD. Goodness!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We no longer use the DRA. We do use the PRF. Reading groups are still a thing, but they will be more focused on phonics and phonemic awareness.

I haven't started small groups yet. The time has been spent assessing (PRFs, iReady, DSA, VGA). I'll start small groups after I finish assessing using the CORE and PASS assessments. The CORE and PASS are given based on how the students do in the phonics and phonemic awareness sections of the iReady.

My kid doesn’t need phonics and phonemic awareness. She needs comprehension now (4th grade).

This is what you parents have been fighting for and now the pendulum has swung - hope you’re happy!

Parents have been fighting for phonics AND a rich knowledge based curriculum. Just wanted to correct this.

Dyslexia parents got ahold of the state legislature and brought in iReady and science of reading. So now suddenly kids will have “comprehension difficulties” starting in 3rd or 4th grade. You will have to form a contingent and go to the state legislature and take control of the schools from they dyslexia parents.

Wow, what??? You sound crazy.

Do I?

Here are some of the lobbying groups for dyslexia VA:

https://www.decodingdyslexiavirginia.org/

https://va.dyslexiaida.org/


Here is the study they wanted:

https://rga.lis.virginia.gov/Published/2011/SD4

And why they changed the assessment to incorporate dyslexia screening:

https://rga.lis.virginia.gov/Published/2019/RD640/PDF

All done by the state legislature which was lobbied by parents who have dyslexic kids.

So does it bother you if schools screen for and identify reading issues in school age children? Or is it bothersome that schools use a curriculum which is proven to help children decode?

No and no, but I think solely focusing on ANYTHING in reading: just content, just guessing, just phonics, etc can be crappy if you leave things out. I think the dyslexia parents have their thing and organized and not all kids the structured support need that their kids needed. I think the current whole group structured phonics fad will leave some kids out and frustrated kids who are advanced. The phonics programs counties are using are lock step and don’t allow for much differentiation for high kids, but they should allow those kids to move at their pace too. (EX. A first grader who has CVC/CCVC etc vowel patterns should be allowed to move on to vowel patterns even if most of the class is still on CVC words)

Frankly, I’m a Montessori enthusiast and she had it right from 1920: science of reading coming from the child’s knowledge and slowly building decoding through writing and reading including stories and content areas, but no one is really going to listen they haven’t for 100 years so why start now? It is also at the kids pace, so those that are working ahead can start suffix/prefixes when they are ready rather than when everyone else is.

At this point, I’m just giving the people who are upset by the current curriculum the playbook so they know what they are up against when they want to swing the pendulum the other way.

I don’t see either “side” as being right. This debate has been going on since 1920 and it will continue. Some group will be left behind until people realize that ALL those factors are needed. Some parents on here are advocating “core knowledge” and that is a term used by phonics/reading curriculum companies right now rather than meaning foundational content knowledge which can occur outside of the curriculum box.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that the Language Arts curriculum should include phonics and reading comprehension. And in fact, that is exactly what dyslexic parents have been fighting for; inclusion of phonics in addition to reading comprehension. Your argument is that your DD is too advanced for any phonics/word study and should not be exposed to it because it is boring. My kids think pretty much everything at school is boring; does that mean it shouldn't be taught? No. You need to address this issue with your child's school and stop attacking parents of dyslexic kids and other kids who actually benefit from phonics.

You have me confused with someone else. I have no daughters. I’m not attacking parents of dyslexic kids. I’m showing what happened in the state legislature and why things changed. It was absolutely because of lobbying. Dyslexic kids need more support, but not ALL kids do. Not ALL kids need open and closed syllable level of phonics. They just don’t and it isn’t really that helpful to them to know it. They could be working on other things. Dyslexic kids may need that level, but no, my AAP 6th grade son doesn’t. He needs prefixes and suffixes and grammar like he has gotten since entering AAP. He is FINE without intense phonics work. My gen ed 3rd grader finds it easier to memorize spelling patterns that is fine too. LEt’s face it, these kids will have spell check all their lives, so if they can approximate enough to go to spell check they are fine.

I do think (and the legislation shows) that the parents of kids with dyslexia have changed the landscape of reading in the schools. I hear that YOU think it will help everyone. Do you hear that my child doesn’t need that level of help? Do you hear that he would be bored doing the same level of phonics as your child?

I am advocating for phonics that is DIFFERENTIATED which the current programs are NOT. For whatever reason, you are not understanding that.

+1 Reading comprehension lady here. 100% agree. I’m the one with the daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of parents wanted a phonics based LA program. I was ecstatic when I heard that they were going to be doing word studies and focusing on spelling and grammar this year. The method that they were using worked for a small group of kids and left a lot of other kids struggling, not just the kids with dyslexia. DS is a smart, capable kid who has not had any corrections to his spelling or grammar in LA for the first 5 years he was in school. That is ridiculous. He knew how to spell the words correctly, we asked him to spell words for us when we saw papers from school, he wasn't doing it because the Teacher didn't correct it and he didn't care. It only started improving when we started making him redo work at home.

At the very least, the way FCPS had been teaching LA was allowing kids to be lazy and that was impacting their writing and reading as they got older. At worst, kids who were slow to read or had LDs struggled for a longer period of time then they needed to. That can cause issues with a kids self esteem and desire to learn.

I have no problem at my 5th grader who is ahead in reading and does well with comprehension and the like (high iReady's and Pass Advanced on the 2 SOLs he has taken, not that either of those are great measures) will be a better reader and writer with what they are doing now. Kids who are ahead in reading will still be in a higher reading group and will still be working on reading comprehension. He reads a lot at home and we discuss what he is reading. He is going to be fine.

What parents don’t understand is that phonics, spelling and grammar work should be combined with comprehension and understanding. Whatever, you are going to get phonics and spelling, but “content-rich” push is coming from companies that are pushing their curriculum. I

Know also that the reason why we don’t have science and social studies is that parents 15 years ago wanted to make sure all kids were reading and doing math, so they lobbied for more reading and math time and science and social studies were cut. Parents get what they ask for eventually, so be careful what you ask for because the education companies and legislature is listening. Because of this public schools will always leave something out for someone. As a previous poster said, “the pendulum has swung” enjoy that you are happy with its direction for the time being.

That is LITERALLY what those of us who are praising the science of reading are saying. It's just that reading comprehension lady can't comprehend this, LOL!!

“Reading comprehension lady”, aka me, has a masters in teaching and actually taught elementary in FCPS for years. I know what balanced literacy looks like. The fact is kids need both phonics and reading comprehension skills. As kids get older, though, the focus needs to be more on comprehension. What I am seeing at my child’s school right now is not balanced. I am seeing a mad rush to catch up on stuff that should have been done in K-2. My child is now way past that and is at ceiling with phonemic awareness. She doesn’t need to know open and closed syllables now. Other kids might, but she is bored. Her scores on nonfiction and fiction sections of standardized tests indicate she may need work on those areas. Not a disability by any means, but she needs to be practicing comprehension and answering questions about texts. I’m not seeing that at all so far. The fact is teachers are now catering to the lowest readers.

So your kid might be bored if she is explicitly taught phonics. If mine isn't explicitly taught phonics he might fail out of school and never be literate. The stakes are not even here. I know you want the world for your child - we all do. But being resentful that parents of children with disabilities have been successful in some small measure in advocating for adequate instruction for their children, because it may mean your already advanced child doesn't get even more advancement...well, that's a pretty hard pill to swallow. BTW, my kid hates learning phonics as much as yours does. It is never fun. It is as boring as watching paint dry. He'd much rather do more science and social studies, too.

Please explain this. No one is resentful of you or your child. We can be resentful that the current manufactured curriculums don’t differentiate phonics instruction without being resentful that your child needs help. How are those two things the same? We can be resentful that FCPS is choosing to do phonics in a way that will be boring without resenting your CHILD. Goodness!

I'm glad you aren't resentful of my child. I think people on this thread have expressed resentment toward "dyslexia parents." To wit: "Dyslexia parents got ahold of the state legislature and brought in iReady and science of reading. So now suddenly kids will have “comprehension difficulties” starting in 3rd or 4th grade. You will have to form a contingent and go to the state legislature and take control of the schools from they dyslexia parents."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We no longer use the DRA. We do use the PRF. Reading groups are still a thing, but they will be more focused on phonics and phonemic awareness.

I haven't started small groups yet. The time has been spent assessing (PRFs, iReady, DSA, VGA). I'll start small groups after I finish assessing using the CORE and PASS assessments. The CORE and PASS are given based on how the students do in the phonics and phonemic awareness sections of the iReady.

My kid doesn’t need phonics and phonemic awareness. She needs comprehension now (4th grade).

This is what you parents have been fighting for and now the pendulum has swung - hope you’re happy!

Parents have been fighting for phonics AND a rich knowledge based curriculum. Just wanted to correct this.

Dyslexia parents got ahold of the state legislature and brought in iReady and science of reading. So now suddenly kids will have “comprehension difficulties” starting in 3rd or 4th grade. You will have to form a contingent and go to the state legislature and take control of the schools from they dyslexia parents.

Wow, what??? You sound crazy.

Do I?

Here are some of the lobbying groups for dyslexia VA:

https://www.decodingdyslexiavirginia.org/

https://va.dyslexiaida.org/


Here is the study they wanted:

https://rga.lis.virginia.gov/Published/2011/SD4

And why they changed the assessment to incorporate dyslexia screening:

https://rga.lis.virginia.gov/Published/2019/RD640/PDF

All done by the state legislature which was lobbied by parents who have dyslexic kids.

So does it bother you if schools screen for and identify reading issues in school age children? Or is it bothersome that schools use a curriculum which is proven to help children decode?

No and no, but I think solely focusing on ANYTHING in reading: just content, just guessing, just phonics, etc can be crappy if you leave things out. I think the dyslexia parents have their thing and organized and not all kids the structured support need that their kids needed. I think the current whole group structured phonics fad will leave some kids out and frustrated kids who are advanced. The phonics programs counties are using are lock step and don’t allow for much differentiation for high kids, but they should allow those kids to move at their pace too. (EX. A first grader who has CVC/CCVC etc vowel patterns should be allowed to move on to vowel patterns even if most of the class is still on CVC words)

Frankly, I’m a Montessori enthusiast and she had it right from 1920: science of reading coming from the child’s knowledge and slowly building decoding through writing and reading including stories and content areas, but no one is really going to listen they haven’t for 100 years so why start now? It is also at the kids pace, so those that are working ahead can start suffix/prefixes when they are ready rather than when everyone else is.

At this point, I’m just giving the people who are upset by the current curriculum the playbook so they know what they are up against when they want to swing the pendulum the other way.

I don’t see either “side” as being right. This debate has been going on since 1920 and it will continue. Some group will be left behind until people realize that ALL those factors are needed. Some parents on here are advocating “core knowledge” and that is a term used by phonics/reading curriculum companies right now rather than meaning foundational content knowledge which can occur outside of the curriculum box.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that the Language Arts curriculum should include phonics and reading comprehension. And in fact, that is exactly what dyslexic parents have been fighting for; inclusion of phonics in addition to reading comprehension. Your argument is that your DD is too advanced for any phonics/word study and should not be exposed to it because it is boring. My kids think pretty much everything at school is boring; does that mean it shouldn't be taught? No. You need to address this issue with your child's school and stop attacking parents of dyslexic kids and other kids who actually benefit from phonics.

Never said that she should not be exposed to it at all. I said literacy needs a balanced approach which includes both. I am not seeing that now. All I see are lessons on phonics. I am concerned as comprehension is what is tested on in later years and on SOLs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We no longer use the DRA. We do use the PRF. Reading groups are still a thing, but they will be more focused on phonics and phonemic awareness.

I haven't started small groups yet. The time has been spent assessing (PRFs, iReady, DSA, VGA). I'll start small groups after I finish assessing using the CORE and PASS assessments. The CORE and PASS are given based on how the students do in the phonics and phonemic awareness sections of the iReady.

My kid doesn’t need phonics and phonemic awareness. She needs comprehension now (4th grade).

This is what you parents have been fighting for and now the pendulum has swung - hope you’re happy!

Parents have been fighting for phonics AND a rich knowledge based curriculum. Just wanted to correct this.

Dyslexia parents got ahold of the state legislature and brought in iReady and science of reading. So now suddenly kids will have “comprehension difficulties” starting in 3rd or 4th grade. You will have to form a contingent and go to the state legislature and take control of the schools from they dyslexia parents.

Wow, what??? You sound crazy.

Do I?

Here are some of the lobbying groups for dyslexia VA:

https://www.decodingdyslexiavirginia.org/

https://va.dyslexiaida.org/


Here is the study they wanted:

https://rga.lis.virginia.gov/Published/2011/SD4

And why they changed the assessment to incorporate dyslexia screening:

https://rga.lis.virginia.gov/Published/2019/RD640/PDF

All done by the state legislature which was lobbied by parents who have dyslexic kids.

So does it bother you if schools screen for and identify reading issues in school age children? Or is it bothersome that schools use a curriculum which is proven to help children decode?

No and no, but I think solely focusing on ANYTHING in reading: just content, just guessing, just phonics, etc can be crappy if you leave things out. I think the dyslexia parents have their thing and organized and not all kids the structured support need that their kids needed. I think the current whole group structured phonics fad will leave some kids out and frustrated kids who are advanced. The phonics programs counties are using are lock step and don’t allow for much differentiation for high kids, but they should allow those kids to move at their pace too. (EX. A first grader who has CVC/CCVC etc vowel patterns should be allowed to move on to vowel patterns even if most of the class is still on CVC words)

Frankly, I’m a Montessori enthusiast and she had it right from 1920: science of reading coming from the child’s knowledge and slowly building decoding through writing and reading including stories and content areas, but no one is really going to listen they haven’t for 100 years so why start now? It is also at the kids pace, so those that are working ahead can start suffix/prefixes when they are ready rather than when everyone else is.

At this point, I’m just giving the people who are upset by the current curriculum the playbook so they know what they are up against when they want to swing the pendulum the other way.

I don’t see either “side” as being right. This debate has been going on since 1920 and it will continue. Some group will be left behind until people realize that ALL those factors are needed. Some parents on here are advocating “core knowledge” and that is a term used by phonics/reading curriculum companies right now rather than meaning foundational content knowledge which can occur outside of the curriculum box.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that the Language Arts curriculum should include phonics and reading comprehension. And in fact, that is exactly what dyslexic parents have been fighting for; inclusion of phonics in addition to reading comprehension. Your argument is that your DD is too advanced for any phonics/word study and should not be exposed to it because it is boring. My kids think pretty much everything at school is boring; does that mean it shouldn't be taught? No. You need to address this issue with your child's school and stop attacking parents of dyslexic kids and other kids who actually benefit from phonics.

Never said that she should not be exposed to it at all. I said literacy needs a balanced approach which includes both. I am not seeing that now. All I see are lessons on phonics. I am concerned as comprehension is what is tested on in later years and on SOLs.

"Teaching comprehension" via lessons is not-so-effective. Class discussions and wide exposure are better teachers - which starts with effective reading by sounding-it-out and learning through context rather than WAG guessing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of parents wanted a phonics based LA program. I was ecstatic when I heard that they were going to be doing word studies and focusing on spelling and grammar this year. The method that they were using worked for a small group of kids and left a lot of other kids struggling, not just the kids with dyslexia. DS is a smart, capable kid who has not had any corrections to his spelling or grammar in LA for the first 5 years he was in school. That is ridiculous. He knew how to spell the words correctly, we asked him to spell words for us when we saw papers from school, he wasn't doing it because the Teacher didn't correct it and he didn't care. It only started improving when we started making him redo work at home.

At the very least, the way FCPS had been teaching LA was allowing kids to be lazy and that was impacting their writing and reading as they got older. At worst, kids who were slow to read or had LDs struggled for a longer period of time then they needed to. That can cause issues with a kids self esteem and desire to learn.

I have no problem at my 5th grader who is ahead in reading and does well with comprehension and the like (high iReady's and Pass Advanced on the 2 SOLs he has taken, not that either of those are great measures) will be a better reader and writer with what they are doing now. Kids who are ahead in reading will still be in a higher reading group and will still be working on reading comprehension. He reads a lot at home and we discuss what he is reading. He is going to be fine.

What parents don’t understand is that phonics, spelling and grammar work should be combined with comprehension and understanding. Whatever, you are going to get phonics and spelling, but “content-rich” push is coming from companies that are pushing their curriculum. I

Know also that the reason why we don’t have science and social studies is that parents 15 years ago wanted to make sure all kids were reading and doing math, so they lobbied for more reading and math time and science and social studies were cut. Parents get what they ask for eventually, so be careful what you ask for because the education companies and legislature is listening. Because of this public schools will always leave something out for someone. As a previous poster said, “the pendulum has swung” enjoy that you are happy with its direction for the time being.

That is LITERALLY what those of us who are praising the science of reading are saying. It's just that reading comprehension lady can't comprehend this, LOL!!

“Reading comprehension lady”, aka me, has a masters in teaching and actually taught elementary in FCPS for years. I know what balanced literacy looks like. The fact is kids need both phonics and reading comprehension skills. As kids get older, though, the focus needs to be more on comprehension. What I am seeing at my child’s school right now is not balanced. I am seeing a mad rush to catch up on stuff that should have been done in K-2. My child is now way past that and is at ceiling with phonemic awareness. She doesn’t need to know open and closed syllables now. Other kids might, but she is bored. Her scores on nonfiction and fiction sections of standardized tests indicate she may need work on those areas. Not a disability by any means, but she needs to be practicing comprehension and answering questions about texts. I’m not seeing that at all so far. The fact is teachers are now catering to the lowest readers.

This is the beginning of October. The school year has barely started.

The fact is, the school year will get more interesting soon, for your DD and for you.

Can you explain why you think phonics work SHOULDN’T be differentiated?

As a teacher, explain how I can teach phonics differentiated? It is 10-15 minutes of each day. I still need to teach all the other parts of language arts. Differentiating reading (in reading groups) is a better use of everyone’s time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of parents wanted a phonics based LA program. I was ecstatic when I heard that they were going to be doing word studies and focusing on spelling and grammar this year. The method that they were using worked for a small group of kids and left a lot of other kids struggling, not just the kids with dyslexia. DS is a smart, capable kid who has not had any corrections to his spelling or grammar in LA for the first 5 years he was in school. That is ridiculous. He knew how to spell the words correctly, we asked him to spell words for us when we saw papers from school, he wasn't doing it because the Teacher didn't correct it and he didn't care. It only started improving when we started making him redo work at home.

At the very least, the way FCPS had been teaching LA was allowing kids to be lazy and that was impacting their writing and reading as they got older. At worst, kids who were slow to read or had LDs struggled for a longer period of time then they needed to. That can cause issues with a kids self esteem and desire to learn.

I have no problem at my 5th grader who is ahead in reading and does well with comprehension and the like (high iReady's and Pass Advanced on the 2 SOLs he has taken, not that either of those are great measures) will be a better reader and writer with what they are doing now. Kids who are ahead in reading will still be in a higher reading group and will still be working on reading comprehension. He reads a lot at home and we discuss what he is reading. He is going to be fine.

What parents don’t understand is that phonics, spelling and grammar work should be combined with comprehension and understanding. Whatever, you are going to get phonics and spelling, but “content-rich” push is coming from companies that are pushing their curriculum. I

Know also that the reason why we don’t have science and social studies is that parents 15 years ago wanted to make sure all kids were reading and doing math, so they lobbied for more reading and math time and science and social studies were cut. Parents get what they ask for eventually, so be careful what you ask for because the education companies and legislature is listening. Because of this public schools will always leave something out for someone. As a previous poster said, “the pendulum has swung” enjoy that you are happy with its direction for the time being.

That is LITERALLY what those of us who are praising the science of reading are saying. It's just that reading comprehension lady can't comprehend this, LOL!!

“Reading comprehension lady”, aka me, has a masters in teaching and actually taught elementary in FCPS for years. I know what balanced literacy looks like. The fact is kids need both phonics and reading comprehension skills. As kids get older, though, the focus needs to be more on comprehension. What I am seeing at my child’s school right now is not balanced. I am seeing a mad rush to catch up on stuff that should have been done in K-2. My child is now way past that and is at ceiling with phonemic awareness. She doesn’t need to know open and closed syllables now. Other kids might, but she is bored. Her scores on nonfiction and fiction sections of standardized tests indicate she may need work on those areas. Not a disability by any means, but she needs to be practicing comprehension and answering questions about texts. I’m not seeing that at all so far. The fact is teachers are now catering to the lowest readers.

This is the beginning of October. The school year has barely started.

The fact is, the school year will get more interesting soon, for your DD and for you.

Can you explain why you think phonics work SHOULDN’T be differentiated?

As a teacher, explain how I can teach phonics differentiated? It is 10-15 minutes of each day. I still need to teach all the other parts of language arts. Differentiating reading (in reading groups) is a better use of everyone’s time.

Incorporate phonics into reading group work. You can also have leveled centers. If you are using any OG stuff (word lists, vowel intensive etc) during your reading group lesson, have it available during independent time. Kids who are working on long vowel patterns can have long vowel word lists, kids who are on CVC can have those etc. If you take 3 minutes during the opening of your reading group to work on a skill make it a phonics skill and then off to the book. Kids can follow up at their seats with differentiated phonics work based on the skill you taught in reading group. Make each skill a week or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We no longer use the DRA. We do use the PRF. Reading groups are still a thing, but they will be more focused on phonics and phonemic awareness.

I haven't started small groups yet. The time has been spent assessing (PRFs, iReady, DSA, VGA). I'll start small groups after I finish assessing using the CORE and PASS assessments. The CORE and PASS are given based on how the students do in the phonics and phonemic awareness sections of the iReady.

My kid doesn’t need phonics and phonemic awareness. She needs comprehension now (4th grade).

This is what you parents have been fighting for and now the pendulum has swung - hope you’re happy!

Parents have been fighting for phonics AND a rich knowledge based curriculum. Just wanted to correct this.

Dyslexia parents got ahold of the state legislature and brought in iReady and science of reading. So now suddenly kids will have “comprehension difficulties” starting in 3rd or 4th grade. You will have to form a contingent and go to the state legislature and take control of the schools from they dyslexia parents.

Wow, what??? You sound crazy.

Do I?

Here are some of the lobbying groups for dyslexia VA:

https://www.decodingdyslexiavirginia.org/

https://va.dyslexiaida.org/


Here is the study they wanted:

https://rga.lis.virginia.gov/Published/2011/SD4

And why they changed the assessment to incorporate dyslexia screening:

https://rga.lis.virginia.gov/Published/2019/RD640/PDF

All done by the state legislature which was lobbied by parents who have dyslexic kids.

So does it bother you if schools screen for and identify reading issues in school age children? Or is it bothersome that schools use a curriculum which is proven to help children decode?

No and no, but I think solely focusing on ANYTHING in reading: just content, just guessing, just phonics, etc can be crappy if you leave things out. I think the dyslexia parents have their thing and organized and not all kids the structured support need that their kids needed. I think the current whole group structured phonics fad will leave some kids out and frustrated kids who are advanced. The phonics programs counties are using are lock step and don’t allow for much differentiation for high kids, but they should allow those kids to move at their pace too. (EX. A first grader who has CVC/CCVC etc vowel patterns should be allowed to move on to vowel patterns even if most of the class is still on CVC words)

Frankly, I’m a Montessori enthusiast and she had it right from 1920: science of reading coming from the child’s knowledge and slowly building decoding through writing and reading including stories and content areas, but no one is really going to listen they haven’t for 100 years so why start now? It is also at the kids pace, so those that are working ahead can start suffix/prefixes when they are ready rather than when everyone else is.

At this point, I’m just giving the people who are upset by the current curriculum the playbook so they know what they are up against when they want to swing the pendulum the other way.

I don’t see either “side” as being right. This debate has been going on since 1920 and it will continue. Some group will be left behind until people realize that ALL those factors are needed. Some parents on here are advocating “core knowledge” and that is a term used by phonics/reading curriculum companies right now rather than meaning foundational content knowledge which can occur outside of the curriculum box.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that the Language Arts curriculum should include phonics and reading comprehension. And in fact, that is exactly what dyslexic parents have been fighting for; inclusion of phonics in addition to reading comprehension. Your argument is that your DD is too advanced for any phonics/word study and should not be exposed to it because it is boring. My kids think pretty much everything at school is boring; does that mean it shouldn't be taught? No. You need to address this issue with your child's school and stop attacking parents of dyslexic kids and other kids who actually benefit from phonics.

Never said that she should not be exposed to it at all. I said literacy needs a balanced approach which includes both. I am not seeing that now. All I see are lessons on phonics. I am concerned as comprehension is what is tested on in later years and on SOLs.

"Teaching comprehension" via lessons is not-so-effective. Class discussions and wide exposure are better teachers - which starts with effective reading by sounding-it-out and learning through context rather than WAG guessing.

Well good thing the SAT/ACT wont’ be needed for college admissions and hopefully the SOLs won’t ask about finding the main idea, authors purpose and backing up ideas with contextual cues I guess? I think those comprehension skills need to be very explicitly taught especially for high stakes testing. Those don’t come with only class discussions. If you are talking about vocabulary development as a piece of comprehension, then I see your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We no longer use the DRA. We do use the PRF. Reading groups are still a thing, but they will be more focused on phonics and phonemic awareness.

I haven't started small groups yet. The time has been spent assessing (PRFs, iReady, DSA, VGA). I'll start small groups after I finish assessing using the CORE and PASS assessments. The CORE and PASS are given based on how the students do in the phonics and phonemic awareness sections of the iReady.

My kid doesn’t need phonics and phonemic awareness. She needs comprehension now (4th grade).

This is what you parents have been fighting for and now the pendulum has swung - hope you’re happy!

Parents have been fighting for phonics AND a rich knowledge based curriculum. Just wanted to correct this.

Dyslexia parents got ahold of the state legislature and brought in iReady and science of reading. So now suddenly kids will have “comprehension difficulties” starting in 3rd or 4th grade. You will have to form a contingent and go to the state legislature and take control of the schools from they dyslexia parents.

Wow, what??? You sound crazy.

Do I?

Here are some of the lobbying groups for dyslexia VA:

https://www.decodingdyslexiavirginia.org/

https://va.dyslexiaida.org/


Here is the study they wanted:

https://rga.lis.virginia.gov/Published/2011/SD4

And why they changed the assessment to incorporate dyslexia screening:

https://rga.lis.virginia.gov/Published/2019/RD640/PDF

All done by the state legislature which was lobbied by parents who have dyslexic kids.

Why don't you want people who have children with learning disabilities to advocate for their children? I don't understand. We should all advocate for our children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of parents wanted a phonics based LA program. I was ecstatic when I heard that they were going to be doing word studies and focusing on spelling and grammar this year. The method that they were using worked for a small group of kids and left a lot of other kids struggling, not just the kids with dyslexia. DS is a smart, capable kid who has not had any corrections to his spelling or grammar in LA for the first 5 years he was in school. That is ridiculous. He knew how to spell the words correctly, we asked him to spell words for us when we saw papers from school, he wasn't doing it because the Teacher didn't correct it and he didn't care. It only started improving when we started making him redo work at home.

At the very least, the way FCPS had been teaching LA was allowing kids to be lazy and that was impacting their writing and reading as they got older. At worst, kids who were slow to read or had LDs struggled for a longer period of time then they needed to. That can cause issues with a kids self esteem and desire to learn.

I have no problem at my 5th grader who is ahead in reading and does well with comprehension and the like (high iReady's and Pass Advanced on the 2 SOLs he has taken, not that either of those are great measures) will be a better reader and writer with what they are doing now. Kids who are ahead in reading will still be in a higher reading group and will still be working on reading comprehension. He reads a lot at home and we discuss what he is reading. He is going to be fine.

What parents don’t understand is that phonics, spelling and grammar work should be combined with comprehension and understanding. Whatever, you are going to get phonics and spelling, but “content-rich” push is coming from companies that are pushing their curriculum. I

Know also that the reason why we don’t have science and social studies is that parents 15 years ago wanted to make sure all kids were reading and doing math, so they lobbied for more reading and math time and science and social studies were cut. Parents get what they ask for eventually, so be careful what you ask for because the education companies and legislature is listening. Because of this public schools will always leave something out for someone. As a previous poster said, “the pendulum has swung” enjoy that you are happy with its direction for the time being.

That is LITERALLY what those of us who are praising the science of reading are saying. It's just that reading comprehension lady can't comprehend this, LOL!!

“Reading comprehension lady”, aka me, has a masters in teaching and actually taught elementary in FCPS for years. I know what balanced literacy looks like. The fact is kids need both phonics and reading comprehension skills. As kids get older, though, the focus needs to be more on comprehension. What I am seeing at my child’s school right now is not balanced. I am seeing a mad rush to catch up on stuff that should have been done in K-2. My child is now way past that and is at ceiling with phonemic awareness. She doesn’t need to know open and closed syllables now. Other kids might, but she is bored. Her scores on nonfiction and fiction sections of standardized tests indicate she may need work on those areas. Not a disability by any means, but she needs to be practicing comprehension and answering questions about texts. I’m not seeing that at all so far. The fact is teachers are now catering to the lowest readers.

You taught elementary in FCPS for years? So you're part of the problem. You "taught" children how to read with "balanced literacy" aka Lucy Calkins. So nope, not seeing you as an expert.

[Anonymous]

Is reading comprehension the same person as anti-dyslexics person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of parents wanted a phonics based LA program. I was ecstatic when I heard that they were going to be doing word studies and focusing on spelling and grammar this year. The method that they were using worked for a small group of kids and left a lot of other kids struggling, not just the kids with dyslexia. DS is a smart, capable kid who has not had any corrections to his spelling or grammar in LA for the first 5 years he was in school. That is ridiculous. He knew how to spell the words correctly, we asked him to spell words for us when we saw papers from school, he wasn't doing it because the Teacher didn't correct it and he didn't care. It only started improving when we started making him redo work at home.

At the very least, the way FCPS had been teaching LA was allowing kids to be lazy and that was impacting their writing and reading as they got older. At worst, kids who were slow to read or had LDs struggled for a longer period of time then they needed to. That can cause issues with a kids self esteem and desire to learn.

I have no problem at my 5th grader who is ahead in reading and does well with comprehension and the like (high iReady's and Pass Advanced on the 2 SOLs he has taken, not that either of those are great measures) will be a better reader and writer with what they are doing now. Kids who are ahead in reading will still be in a higher reading group and will still be working on reading comprehension. He reads a lot at home and we discuss what he is reading. He is going to be fine.

What parents don’t understand is that phonics, spelling and grammar work should be combined with comprehension and understanding. Whatever, you are going to get phonics and spelling, but “content-rich” push is coming from companies that are pushing their curriculum. I

Know also that the reason why we don’t have science and social studies is that parents 15 years ago wanted to make sure all kids were reading and doing math, so they lobbied for more reading and math time and science and social studies were cut. Parents get what they ask for eventually, so be careful what you ask for because the education companies and legislature is listening. Because of this public schools will always leave something out for someone. As a previous poster said, “the pendulum has swung” enjoy that you are happy with its direction for the time being.

That is LITERALLY what those of us who are praising the science of reading are saying. It's just that reading comprehension lady can't comprehend this, LOL!!

“Reading comprehension lady”, aka me, has a masters in teaching and actually taught elementary in FCPS for years. I know what balanced literacy looks like. The fact is kids need both phonics and reading comprehension skills. As kids get older, though, the focus needs to be more on comprehension. What I am seeing at my child’s school right now is not balanced. I am seeing a mad rush to catch up on stuff that should have been done in K-2. My child is now way past that and is at ceiling with phonemic awareness. She doesn’t need to know open and closed syllables now. Other kids might, but she is bored. Her scores on nonfiction and fiction sections of standardized tests indicate she may need work on those areas. Not a disability by any means, but she needs to be practicing comprehension and answering questions about texts. I’m not seeing that at all so far. The fact is teachers are now catering to the lowest readers.

This is the beginning of October. The school year has barely started.

The fact is, the school year will get more interesting soon, for your DD and for you.

Can you explain why you think phonics work SHOULDN’T be differentiated?

As a teacher, explain how I can teach phonics differentiated? It is 10-15 minutes of each day. I still need to teach all the other parts of language arts. Differentiating reading (in reading groups) is a better use of everyone’s time.

Incorporate phonics into reading group work. You can also have leveled centers. If you are using any OG stuff (word lists, vowel intensive etc) during your reading group lesson, have it available during independent time. Kids who are working on long vowel patterns can have long vowel word lists, kids who are on CVC can have those etc. If you take 3 minutes during the opening of your reading group to work on a skill make it a phonics skill and then off to the book. Kids can follow up at their seats with differentiated phonics work based on the skill you taught in reading group. Make each skill a week or so.

Okay. This might work for lower ES but not upper. We don’t do centers for LA. Phonics needs don’t always match comprehension needs. I think it is easier to teach a word study lesson for 10 mins full class and then do comprehension based reading groups. If you have kids who are still learning to read, then fine a 3 min phonics lesson during small group will work. Again, my 10-15 minutes of word study with my AAP kids is helping their spelling, their knowledge of parts of speech and their reading comprehension.