Dropping out at CMU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what major

Computer Engineering

Computer Engineering is a HARD major!!! Can he change to something easier? I doubt it will be easy anywhere.

yes, it can and likely will be significantly easier at many other schools. CMU is most known for their CS/CompEng---they are up there with MIT. Most in that program have 1570+ and 4.0+ gpa with 10+ AP credits. They are a group of driven, studious, focused students. It's a pressure cooker school in CS/Engineering---way beyond what even other Elite universities are. The school is not known for being social and that group/majors certainly is NOT (typically). The OP kid is very smart, he will succeed almost anywhere else, but his mental health matters and he needs to be happy for the 4 years.

Just because a school attracts kids with high SATs does not mean their actual classes are harder than the same class a different school. If you can't comprehend Calc III at one shcool you will not magically "get it" at another school.

DP.. it depends.

1. The professors are different, and maybe CMU has higher expectations
2. There may be additional assignments or projects at CMU that are "hard" that other schools don't require

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, the date could have been 2002 on this thread and I wouldn’t have blinked. My brother *should* have dropped out of CMU way back then, and a good 25% of his friends from freshman year did, including his roommate. He did everything possible to try to make it fun- fraternity, booth & buggy, girlfriend, study abroad- but it wasn’t very effective. I visited often but never got a good feel for the school. There were so many beautiful common spaces that were lifeless.

The good thing is that now with Covid disruptions and gap years, no one bats an eye at a year off or a transfer. It is simply not a big deal. It truly isn’t. Don’t let fear of the dropout label stop your child from making the choice that is right for them.

This is OP. Thank you.

As I've said before, my DS has nothing but positive things to say about CMU. It is an exceptional place for hard working AND talented students, it is just NOT the place FOR HIM. He gave it a try and it just didn't work out.

I told DS that whatever he decides to do, I am going to be OK with it because it is his life, not mine. Unless he asks for my advice, I am going to stay in my lane.

OP---It' takes a lot to step back and say you made a mistake and it's not the place for you. Your son is mature and has done just that. More importantly he's done it before his mental health declines and his grades plummet. He's got this, he will regroup and find a better fit for himself. The fact he's doing this all himself is impressive.

-1

Backing away from a tough challenge that is also an AMAZING opportunity (almost everyone in the country would KILL to go to CMU for CS) is NOT mature or impressive at all in my book.

OP, if I were you, I'd try to make sure my kid stays at CMU CS no matter what. Having a CS degree from there will brand you for life, no matter the kid's damage to their "mental health" or whatever. I'm also the OP of this thread:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1067220.page

I think the posters on this thread, as with the American population at large, are WAY too lenient on their kids and discourage resilience and grit by letting their kid back away from tough challenges. I'd rather have my kid get a CS degree from CMU with depression and anxiety and an unhappy 4 years (but a lifetime of financial rewards as evidenced by CMU CS's median earnings) than letting them back away from a challenge like this.

OP, show your daughter kid that you have faith in him! How is he supposed to believe in himself when you won't even believe in him to complete tough challenges?!!!!

What’s your degree and where is it from? Have you had to pass killer weedout engineering classes at a place like CMU?

I suspect not. Even if you have, that doesn’t mean other people can necessarily do that, or that the people who do that will prosper if the economic winds change. Past degree performance does not predict future results.

The PP is either a troll (my guess) or a "tiger mom". If it's for real, I pity their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, the date could have been 2002 on this thread and I wouldn’t have blinked. My brother *should* have dropped out of CMU way back then, and a good 25% of his friends from freshman year did, including his roommate. He did everything possible to try to make it fun- fraternity, booth & buggy, girlfriend, study abroad- but it wasn’t very effective. I visited often but never got a good feel for the school. There were so many beautiful common spaces that were lifeless.

The good thing is that now with Covid disruptions and gap years, no one bats an eye at a year off or a transfer. It is simply not a big deal. It truly isn’t. Don’t let fear of the dropout label stop your child from making the choice that is right for them.

This is OP. Thank you.

As I've said before, my DS has nothing but positive things to say about CMU. It is an exceptional place for hard working AND talented students, it is just NOT the place FOR HIM. He gave it a try and it just didn't work out.

I told DS that whatever he decides to do, I am going to be OK with it because it is his life, not mine. Unless he asks for my advice, I am going to stay in my lane.

OP---It' takes a lot to step back and say you made a mistake and it's not the place for you. Your son is mature and has done just that. More importantly he's done it before his mental health declines and his grades plummet. He's got this, he will regroup and find a better fit for himself. The fact he's doing this all himself is impressive.

-1

Backing away from a tough challenge that is also an AMAZING opportunity (almost everyone in the country would KILL to go to CMU for CS) is NOT mature or impressive at all in my book.

OP, if I were you, I'd try to make sure my kid stays at CMU CS no matter what. Having a CS degree from there will brand you for life, no matter the kid's damage to their "mental health" or whatever. I'm also the OP of this thread:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1067220.page

I think the posters on this thread, as with the American population at large, are WAY too lenient on their kids and discourage resilience and grit by letting their kid back away from tough challenges. I'd rather have my kid get a CS degree from CMU with depression and anxiety and an unhappy 4 years (but a lifetime of financial rewards as evidenced by CMU CS's median earnings) than letting them back away from a challenge like this.

OP, show your kid that you have faith in him! How is he supposed to believe in himself when you won't even believe in him to complete tough challenges?!!!!

You would rather your kid be depressed and anxious so they can have a certain status? This so messed up. He can have plenty of the financial independence and still the prestige you seek while not being miserable at UVA or tech. He’ll still have access to great jobs. You can push your kid when they need it without actually pushing them over the edge which is what you’re suggesting. I truly truly do not understand this.

The poster is crazy. Yes, CMU is an amazing school (if fit is good) for CS/CompEng. But they are living in a fairy tale if they think it's the be all end all of having a great job in that field. Yes, it opens some doors for you (initially). But the top companies hire from many other schools as well. Plenty of top employees at the "top companies" from non elite/T5 CS universities. And in reality, the OP son may not have a desire to work at Microsoft/amazon/Facebook/etc. There are plenty of other AMAZING companies to work for and have a great career and a great family/life balance.
The poster only cares about status/image, no concern for mental health, overall happiness. They just want to push push push their kids until they are miserable but mommy can brag about them at family events. Good chance the posters kids family/life balance in the future will not include their overbearing, controlling mommy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would he completely quit school instead of switching a few classes to get something easier out of the way, or cut back a class or two? Completely quit school- ummmmm……. Good luck with that.

+1

Dropping out of CMU is a major red flag to any reputable school or employer. OP, you MUST get your kid to stay no matter what.

There is no reason for a person to put "dropped out of CMU in the first semester" on a job resume.

He already completed a year at CMU. He'll be applying to new schools as a transfer student. Of course he'll have to disclose his year at CMU, as well as his grades from thar year. He may also need to write an essay on why he wants to transfer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what major

Computer Engineering

Computer Engineering is a HARD major!!! Can he change to something easier? I doubt it will be easy anywhere.

yes, it can and likely will be significantly easier at many other schools. CMU is most known for their CS/CompEng---they are up there with MIT. Most in that program have 1570+ and 4.0+ gpa with 10+ AP credits. They are a group of driven, studious, focused students. It's a pressure cooker school in CS/Engineering---way beyond what even other Elite universities are. The school is not known for being social and that group/majors certainly is NOT (typically). The OP kid is very smart, he will succeed almost anywhere else, but his mental health matters and he needs to be happy for the 4 years.

Just because a school attracts kids with high SATs does not mean their actual classes are harder than the same class a different school. If you can't comprehend Calc III at one school you will not magically "get it" at another school.

I'm well aware of that. However, I have a CS degree from a T10 university, and did graduate school at CMU. I actually took Operating Systems (undergrad course) at BOTH universities, so I have actual experience with this. Despite 2 more years of experience by the time I took it at CMU, it was still an extremely challenging course. So essentially, I was at a university just "slightly below CMU for CS" and the CMU course was extremely challenging even after I had already taken it 2 years earlier and earned an A. So yes, I am confident in stating (from personal experience) that CMU CS is over the top and classes are significantly harder at CMU.
And the only reason my "team" was great is because I was in a graduate program where we were all there from a specific company, so we knew each other and worked together---the general population at CMU CS were not that collaborative.

However, if I had not gone to CMU to get my grad degree, I would have still done well in life with just my BS degree in CS/Comp Eng. I already had the tools to do the job and excel. Only got the grad degree because the company paid for it and essentially required all new hires to get their MS (yeah I'm old...that used to be a thing in technology companies). However, I had over 10 job offers out of undergrad and choose that one because who wouldn't want to get their MS paid for while collecting their salary and benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what major

Computer Engineering

Computer Engineering is a HARD major!!! Can he change to something easier? I doubt it will be easy anywhere.

yes, it can and likely will be significantly easier at many other schools. CMU is most known for their CS/CompEng---they are up there with MIT. Most in that program have 1570+ and 4.0+ gpa with 10+ AP credits. They are a group of driven, studious, focused students. It's a pressure cooker school in CS/Engineering---way beyond what even other Elite universities are. The school is not known for being social and that group/majors certainly is NOT (typically). The OP kid is very smart, he will succeed almost anywhere else, but his mental health matters and he needs to be happy for the 4 years.

Just because a school attracts kids with high SATs does not mean their actual classes are harder than the same class a different school. If you can't comprehend Calc III at one shcool you will not magically "get it" at another school.

DP.. it depends.

1. The professors are different, and maybe CMU has higher expectations
2. There may be additional assignments or projects at CMU that are "hard" that other schools don't require

CS courses at CMU are a different breed from almost everywhere else. They are significantly harder. I have personal experience with it compared (comparing a T10 university to CMU). They don't need to be that way, but they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, the date could have been 2002 on this thread and I wouldn’t have blinked. My brother *should* have dropped out of CMU way back then, and a good 25% of his friends from freshman year did, including his roommate. He did everything possible to try to make it fun- fraternity, booth & buggy, girlfriend, study abroad- but it wasn’t very effective. I visited often but never got a good feel for the school. There were so many beautiful common spaces that were lifeless.

The good thing is that now with Covid disruptions and gap years, no one bats an eye at a year off or a transfer. It is simply not a big deal. It truly isn’t. Don’t let fear of the dropout label stop your child from making the choice that is right for them.

This is OP. Thank you.

As I've said before, my DS has nothing but positive things to say about CMU. It is an exceptional place for hard working AND talented students, it is just NOT the place FOR HIM. He gave it a try and it just didn't work out.

I told DS that whatever he decides to do, I am going to be OK with it because it is his life, not mine. Unless he asks for my advice, I am going to stay in my lane.

OP---It' takes a lot to step back and say you made a mistake and it's not the place for you. Your son is mature and has done just that. More importantly he's done it before his mental health declines and his grades plummet. He's got this, he will regroup and find a better fit for himself. The fact he's doing this all himself is impressive.

-1

Backing away from a tough challenge that is also an AMAZING opportunity (almost everyone in the country would KILL to go to CMU for CS) is NOT mature or impressive at all in my book.

OP, if I were you, I'd try to make sure my kid stays at CMU CS no matter what. Having a CS degree from there will brand you for life, no matter the kid's damage to their "mental health" or whatever. I'm also the OP of this thread:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1067220.page

I think the posters on this thread, as with the American population at large, are WAY too lenient on their kids and discourage resilience and grit by letting their kid back away from tough challenges. I'd rather have my kid get a CS degree from CMU with depression and anxiety and an unhappy 4 years (but a lifetime of financial rewards as evidenced by CMU CS's median earnings) than letting them back away from a challenge like this.

OP, show your kid that you have faith in him! How is he supposed to believe in himself when you won't even believe in him to complete tough challenges?!!!!

Tough talk from someone who wiles away their potential earning hours with long posts on an anonymous forum. Where's your grit? Why aren't you being productive? You could have earned good $$$ or skills in the time it took you to write that post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what major

Computer Engineering

Computer Engineering is a HARD major!!! Can he change to something easier? I doubt it will be easy anywhere.

yes, it can and likely will be significantly easier at many other schools. CMU is most known for their CS/CompEng---they are up there with MIT. Most in that program have 1570+ and 4.0+ gpa with 10+ AP credits. They are a group of driven, studious, focused students. It's a pressure cooker school in CS/Engineering---way beyond what even other Elite universities are. The school is not known for being social and that group/majors certainly is NOT (typically). The OP kid is very smart, he will succeed almost anywhere else, but his mental health matters and he needs to be happy for the 4 years.

Just because a school attracts kids with high SATs does not mean their actual classes are harder than the same class a different school. If you can't comprehend Calc III at one school you will not magically "get it" at another school.

I'm well aware of that. However, I have a CS degree from a T10 university, and did graduate school at CMU. I actually took Operating Systems (undergrad course) at BOTH universities, so I have actual experience with this. Despite 2 more years of experience by the time I took it at CMU, it was still an extremely challenging course. So essentially, I was at a university just "slightly below CMU for CS" and the CMU course was extremely challenging even after I had already taken it 2 years earlier and earned an A. So yes, I am confident in stating (from personal experience) that CMU CS is over the top and classes are significantly harder at CMU.
And the only reason my "team" was great is because I was in a graduate program where we were all there from a specific company, so we knew each other and worked together---the general population at CMU CS were not that collaborative.

However, if I had not gone to CMU to get my grad degree, I would have still done well in life with just my BS degree in CS/Comp Eng. I already had the tools to do the job and excel. Only got the grad degree because the company paid for it and essentially required all new hires to get their MS (yeah I'm old...that used to be a thing in technology companies). However, I had over 10 job offers out of undergrad and choose that one because who wouldn't want to get their MS paid for while collecting their salary and benefits.

We had a bunch of kids from Bellcore in my grad program doing this. They were paid a salary and had 12 months to get a MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would he completely quit school instead of switching a few classes to get something easier out of the way, or cut back a class or two? Completely quit school- ummmmm……. Good luck with that.

+1

Dropping out of CMU is a major red flag to any reputable school or employer. OP, you MUST get your kid to stay no matter what.

There is no reason for a person to put "dropped out of CMU in the first semester" on a job resume.

He already completed a year at CMU. He'll be applying to new schools as a transfer student. Of course he'll have to disclose his year at CMU, as well as his grades from thar year. He may also need to write an essay on why he wants to transfer.

No duh he has to tell any school he transfers to. But he will not need to tell any employer as the PP said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, the date could have been 2002 on this thread and I wouldn’t have blinked. My brother *should* have dropped out of CMU way back then, and a good 25% of his friends from freshman year did, including his roommate. He did everything possible to try to make it fun- fraternity, booth & buggy, girlfriend, study abroad- but it wasn’t very effective. I visited often but never got a good feel for the school. There were so many beautiful common spaces that were lifeless.

The good thing is that now with Covid disruptions and gap years, no one bats an eye at a year off or a transfer. It is simply not a big deal. It truly isn’t. Don’t let fear of the dropout label stop your child from making the choice that is right for them.

This is OP. Thank you.

As I've said before, my DS has nothing but positive things to say about CMU. It is an exceptional place for hard working AND talented students, it is just NOT the place FOR HIM. He gave it a try and it just didn't work out.

I told DS that whatever he decides to do, I am going to be OK with it because it is his life, not mine. Unless he asks for my advice, I am going to stay in my lane.

OP---It' takes a lot to step back and say you made a mistake and it's not the place for you. Your son is mature and has done just that. More importantly he's done it before his mental health declines and his grades plummet. He's got this, he will regroup and find a better fit for himself. The fact he's doing this all himself is impressive.

-1

Backing away from a tough challenge that is also an AMAZING opportunity (almost everyone in the country would KILL to go to CMU for CS) is NOT mature or impressive at all in my book.

OP, if I were you, I'd try to make sure my kid stays at CMU CS no matter what. Having a CS degree from there will brand you for life, no matter the kid's damage to their "mental health" or whatever. I'm also the OP of this thread:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1067220.page

I think the posters on this thread, as with the American population at large, are WAY too lenient on their kids and discourage resilience and grit by letting their kid back away from tough challenges. I'd rather have my kid get a CS degree from CMU with depression and anxiety and an unhappy 4 years (but a lifetime of financial rewards as evidenced by CMU CS's median earnings) than letting them back away from a challenge like this.

OP, show your daughter kid that you have faith in him! How is he supposed to believe in himself when you won't even believe in him to complete tough challenges?!!!!

What’s your degree and where is it from? Have you had to pass killer weedout engineering classes at a place like CMU?

I suspect not. Even if you have, that doesn’t mean other people can necessarily do that, or that the people who do that will prosper if the economic winds change. Past degree performance does not predict future results.

The PP is either a troll (my guess) or a "tiger mom". If it's for real, I pity their kids.

Completely agree. She/he is toxic. This is what leads to suicide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what major

Computer Engineering

Computer Engineering is a HARD major!!! Can he change to something easier? I doubt it will be easy anywhere.

yes, it can and likely will be significantly easier at many other schools. CMU is most known for their CS/CompEng---they are up there with MIT. Most in that program have 1570+ and 4.0+ gpa with 10+ AP credits. They are a group of driven, studious, focused students. It's a pressure cooker school in CS/Engineering---way beyond what even other Elite universities are. The school is not known for being social and that group/majors certainly is NOT (typically). The OP kid is very smart, he will succeed almost anywhere else, but his mental health matters and he needs to be happy for the 4 years.

Just because a school attracts kids with high SATs does not mean their actual classes are harder than the same class a different school. If you can't comprehend Calc III at one school you will not magically "get it" at another school.

I'm well aware of that. However, I have a CS degree from a T10 university, and did graduate school at CMU. I actually took Operating Systems (undergrad course) at BOTH universities, so I have actual experience with this. Despite 2 more years of experience by the time I took it at CMU, it was still an extremely challenging course. So essentially, I was at a university just "slightly below CMU for CS" and the CMU course was extremely challenging even after I had already taken it 2 years earlier and earned an A. So yes, I am confident in stating (from personal experience) that CMU CS is over the top and classes are significantly harder at CMU.
And the only reason my "team" was great is because I was in a graduate program where we were all there from a specific company, so we knew each other and worked together---the general population at CMU CS were not that collaborative.

However, if I had not gone to CMU to get my grad degree, I would have still done well in life with just my BS degree in CS/Comp Eng. I already had the tools to do the job and excel. Only got the grad degree because the company paid for it and essentially required all new hires to get their MS (yeah I'm old...that used to be a thing in technology companies). However, I had over 10 job offers out of undergrad and choose that one because who wouldn't want to get their MS paid for while collecting their salary and benefits.

I'm a CMU CS grad from so long ago that my experience probably isn't all that relevant (FWIW, I loved it). But gods...That operating systems class. I'm not sure whether I'm comforted or horrified that it's still a killer class. When I took it, everyone in the class started out clean-shaven and ended up with heavy beards because the class was so much work no one had time to shave (or, judging by the smell in the computer clusters—we still had those, back in the day—other important aspects of personal hygiene). Friendships died over the group projects in that class.

But y'know what made CS look easy back when I was at CMU? Computer Engineering. Those guys (and it was almost entirely men at the time) really had it rough.

As much as I loved CMU, it's definitely not for everyone. There's no shame in noping out and finding a school that's less intense. I had also attended a big state school and didn't do well; CMU's much smaller size what what I needed, and I was enough of a nerd that the lack of a social life didn't bother me. And yes, companies heavily recruit from CMU, but people from other schools do manage to get jobs too, so OP's DS will probably be fine. And transferring will help him figure out whether the problem was CMU or if there's something else going on.

[Anonymous]

Updated: DS is finally home. He is taking off this semester and looking to apply to either UVA or VATech for Computer Engineering for Fall '23. He was accepted by both UVA and VATech but turned them down to attend CMU. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. Will see what happens. He will take a two weeks break. After that, he is going back to his previous summer job as a software developer for $43/hour. Since the job is 100% virtual, he is looking at living in South America for the next six months. He seems to be very happy now that he is no longer at CMU. He loved his time there but it just didn't work out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Updated: DS is finally home. He is taking off this semester and looking to apply to either UVA or VATech for Computer Engineering for Fall '23. He was accepted by both UVA and VATech but turned them down to attend CMU. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. Will see what happens. He will take a two weeks break. After that, he is going back to his previous summer job as a software developer for $43/hour. Since the job is 100% virtual, he is looking at living in South America for the next six months. He seems to be very happy now that he is no longer at CMU. He loved his time there but it just didn't work out.

Thanks for the update--it sounds like he's got a great trajectory ahead. He should be talking to UVA and VT about transferring and his options now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Updated: DS is finally home. He is taking off this semester and looking to apply to either UVA or VATech for Computer Engineering for Fall '23. He was accepted by both UVA and VATech but turned them down to attend CMU. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. Will see what happens. He will take a two weeks break. After that, he is going back to his previous summer job as a software developer for $43/hour. Since the job is 100% virtual, he is looking at living in South America for the next six months. He seems to be very happy now that he is no longer at CMU. He loved his time there but it just didn't work out.

How does he expect to get into UVA or VT engineering after almost failing out of CMU?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what major

Computer Engineering

Computer Engineering is a HARD major!!! Can he change to something easier? I doubt it will be easy anywhere.

yes, it can and likely will be significantly easier at many other schools. CMU is most known for their CS/CompEng---they are up there with MIT. Most in that program have 1570+ and 4.0+ gpa with 10+ AP credits. They are a group of driven, studious, focused students. It's a pressure cooker school in CS/Engineering---way beyond what even other Elite universities are. The school is not known for being social and that group/majors certainly is NOT (typically). The OP kid is very smart, he will succeed almost anywhere else, but his mental health matters and he needs to be happy for the 4 years.

Just because a school attracts kids with high SATs does not mean their actual classes are harder than the same class a different school. If you can't comprehend Calc III at one school you will not magically "get it" at another school.

I'm well aware of that. However, I have a CS degree from a T10 university, and did graduate school at CMU. I actually took Operating Systems (undergrad course) at BOTH universities, so I have actual experience with this. Despite 2 more years of experience by the time I took it at CMU, it was still an extremely challenging course. So essentially, I was at a university just "slightly below CMU for CS" and the CMU course was extremely challenging even after I had already taken it 2 years earlier and earned an A. So yes, I am confident in stating (from personal experience) that CMU CS is over the top and classes are significantly harder at CMU.
And the only reason my "team" was great is because I was in a graduate program where we were all there from a specific company, so we knew each other and worked together---the general population at CMU CS were not that collaborative.

However, if I had not gone to CMU to get my grad degree, I would have still done well in life with just my BS degree in CS/Comp Eng. I already had the tools to do the job and excel. Only got the grad degree because the company paid for it and essentially required all new hires to get their MS (yeah I'm old...that used to be a thing in technology companies). However, I had over 10 job offers out of undergrad and choose that one because who wouldn't want to get their MS paid for while collecting their salary and benefits.

We had a bunch of kids from Bellcore in my grad program doing this. They were paid a salary and had 12 months to get a MS.

It's 15 months (or at least it used to be back at the start---and you must be in the first MS1-MS6ish because there were not many from bellcore after that), and were paid ~45% of the normal salary, all tuition/books/school expenses and collected vacation/sick days just like full time employees. It was an awesome program to be a part of for so many reasons.