UVA or Georgetown

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is such a ridiculous discussion.

Georgetown is way more selective than UVA: 16% vs 22%

What is ridiculous is the apparent assumption that “more selective” means academically better when the difference in selectivity is minor.

Tulane and Northeastern may now be more selective than either based on that criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown is internationally known, UVA is regionally preferred.

Hah! UVA has produced twice the number of Rhodes Scholars and has a lot of grad students there now. It's the greatest producer of Rhodes after the Ivies and the top public producer in the nation. Same with most of the other international scholarships and fellowships

UVA has over 2x as many undergraduates. And I wonder what the story looks like if you start the count at say 1985?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is such a ridiculous discussion.

Georgetown is way more selective than UVA: 16% vs 22%. And that's before taking into account the fact that all Common App colleges have artificially low acceptance rates, including UVA. Georgetown does not participate in the Common App.

But financially, instate UVA is OBVIOUSLY the better choice.
Academically, there is no question GU is more reputable.

Done.

End of discussion.

I think you are new to college admissions. If you research it here or anywhere online you will learn that you cannot compare the selectivity/acceptance rates of our nation's public universities to that of private institutions. There are many reasons why but primarily, and certainly in Virginia and California, the applicant pool to the top public schools is self-selecting. Due to SCHEV and other statistical resources, applicants know exactly where they stand vis-a-vis the prior entering class, so can make a better call on chances of getting in than they can for privates. This is also done by the public high school counselor whose job it is to direct applicants to the most suitable public university. When we met with the Langley high school counselor there was absolutely no question that our DD was not UVA material. And if we had pushed on it, the counselor whips out the SCHEV statistics and Naviance to demonstrate why. We could readily see she had a chance of getting into GMU but never UVA or W&M. The public high school counselor will not support the application. Can a parent force it? I suppose so but I've never heard it done. And remember that public high school counselor (whose reputation is on the line with the public universities and often wants to move into admissions at one of those schools) won't be apt to work the letters of recommendation and check off the "most rigorous" box or rave about the student in the advisor's own letter of recommendation (in VA the public high school counselor writes their own letter to the public schools). Because of this system of screening and checks, the applicant pool to the top publics is very elite and primarily the top 6% of public high school students. Hence the rate of selectivity is lower than privates - and remember that privates can throw millions of dollars at marketing to inflate the applicant pool class in order to drive down the acceptance/selectivity numbers. Publics don't have those resources. This is why USNWR doesn't require institutions to submit selectivity numbers anymore . . . they are too easily manipulated by the private institutions, like Northwestern, U of Chicago and Northeastern.

The result is that the top publics have higher percentages of acceptance than top privates: U of Florida is 31.1%; the University of Michigan is 26.1%; UCLA 14.3%; Berkeley is 17.5%; the University of Texas (on a very different system) 32%; the University of North Carolina, 25% (OOS is 10.5%). All of these schools have become very difficult to get into - especially for OOS as states drive down on the number of OOS as demand by taxpayers increases.

So UVA at 22.6% (OOS 17%) is right in line with the other publics. But even amongst publics you can't compare precisely because of the system of applicants and the screening role of the public high school counselors. But all counselors will tell you that getting in OOS at UCLA, Berkeley, UNC, etc. is unlikely because of the quality of competition. In California, the OOS class is limited to only 10% as is UNC.

A better indicator of prestige and quality of student are the SCHEV statistics which show that the applicants who arrive on campus have higher stats than Georgetown. Last fall, the 75th percentile of enrolled (the students who actually showed up, not the accepted class, which is higher; some turn down UVA for Ivies or SLACs), was a 4.52 weighted GPA; a whopping 35 on the ACT and a 1510 SAT/=. The median has a 4.39, a whopping 34 ACT and a 1450. Even the bottom 25th percentile has a 4.23, a 32 ACT and a 1400. Now someone will come on and say SCHEV doesn't include all the entering students but SCHEV is a FAR BETTER tool than exists for the private schools in other states. Every Virginia parent should be using it as a reference guide for all privates (yes SCHEV covers privates too) and publics. All the stats you need to know are there. Just enter the name of the college and dig in. Then go to your high school Naviance or equivalent and compare your student's stats to those of his own class. Uou will come away with a very realistic view of your child's chances of getting into Virginia schools. Because we have this tool, applicants are better able to apply to the institutions that they have a chance of getting into. There is no equivalent in other states. https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

The “SCHEV” poster always jumps into these discussions and overinflates the role of Virginia public high school guidance counselors on “steering” students to certain VA colleges. Maybe it happens at Langley, but not in any other VA public high school that I ever heard of and certainly not at my kids’ VA public school. They let my kids and all of their friends apply to any VA school they wanted to and didn’t blink an eye. Their reputations were not “on the line” and they’re not all gunning to join college admissions committees either. That’s absurd. I have no idea where this poster has gotten these crazy ideas from, but to extrapolate from their own personal experience where they were advised that their kid wasn’t getting into UVA that all NOVA guidance counselors are steering committees is ridiculous. It’s simply not true.

UVA is without question less selective than Georgetown for in state applicant. It’s not less selective for out of state applicants, however, and the school without question enrolls many, many in state students who could have gotten into Georgetown but never even applied because it makes no sense financially.

[Anonymous]

One or two Rhodes Scholarships every now and then are not an indicator of overall academic excellence. UVA is a prime example example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is such a ridiculous discussion.

Georgetown is way more selective than UVA: 16% vs 22%. And that's before taking into account the fact that all Common App colleges have artificially low acceptance rates, including UVA. Georgetown does not participate in the Common App.

But financially, instate UVA is OBVIOUSLY the better choice.
Academically, there is no question GU is more reputable.

Done.

End of discussion.

I think you are new to college admissions. If you research it here or anywhere online you will learn that you cannot compare the selectivity/acceptance rates of our nation's public universities to that of private institutions. There are many reasons why but primarily, and certainly in Virginia and California, the applicant pool to the top public schools is self-selecting. Due to SCHEV and other statistical resources, applicants know exactly where they stand vis-a-vis the prior entering class, so can make a better call on chances of getting in than they can for privates. This is also done by the public high school counselor whose job it is to direct applicants to the most suitable public university. When we met with the Langley high school counselor there was absolutely no question that our DD was not UVA material. And if we had pushed on it, the counselor whips out the SCHEV statistics and Naviance to demonstrate why. We could readily see she had a chance of getting into GMU but never UVA or W&M. The public high school counselor will not support the application. Can a parent force it? I suppose so but I've never heard it done. And remember that public high school counselor (whose reputation is on the line with the public universities and often wants to move into admissions at one of those schools) won't be apt to work the letters of recommendation and check off the "most rigorous" box or rave about the student in the advisor's own letter of recommendation (in VA the public high school counselor writes their own letter to the public schools). Because of this system of screening and checks, the applicant pool to the top publics is very elite and primarily the top 6% of public high school students. Hence the rate of selectivity is lower than privates - and remember that privates can throw millions of dollars at marketing to inflate the applicant pool class in order to drive down the acceptance/selectivity numbers. Publics don't have those resources. This is why USNWR doesn't require institutions to submit selectivity numbers anymore . . . they are too easily manipulated by the private institutions, like Northwestern, U of Chicago and Northeastern.

The result is that the top publics have higher percentages of acceptance than top privates: U of Florida is 31.1%; the University of Michigan is 26.1%; UCLA 14.3%; Berkeley is 17.5%; the University of Texas (on a very different system) 32%; the University of North Carolina, 25% (OOS is 10.5%). All of these schools have become very difficult to get into - especially for OOS as states drive down on the number of OOS as demand by taxpayers increases.

So UVA at 22.6% (OOS 17%) is right in line with the other publics. But even amongst publics you can't compare precisely because of the system of applicants and the screening role of the public high school counselors. But all counselors will tell you that getting in OOS at UCLA, Berkeley, UNC, etc. is unlikely because of the quality of competition. In California, the OOS class is limited to only 10% as is UNC.

A better indicator of prestige and quality of student are the SCHEV statistics which show that the applicants who arrive on campus have higher stats than Georgetown. Last fall, the 75th percentile of enrolled (the students who actually showed up, not the accepted class, which is higher; some turn down UVA for Ivies or SLACs), was a 4.52 weighted GPA; a whopping 35 on the ACT and a 1510 SAT/=. The median has a 4.39, a whopping 34 ACT and a 1450. Even the bottom 25th percentile has a 4.23, a 32 ACT and a 1400. Now someone will come on and say SCHEV doesn't include all the entering students but SCHEV is a FAR BETTER tool than exists for the private schools in other states. Every Virginia parent should be using it as a reference guide for all privates (yes SCHEV covers privates too) and publics. All the stats you need to know are there. Just enter the name of the college and dig in. Then go to your high school Naviance or equivalent and compare your student's stats to those of his own class. Uou will come away with a very realistic view of your child's chances of getting into Virginia schools. Because we have this tool, applicants are better able to apply to the institutions that they have a chance of getting into. There is no equivalent in other states. https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

The “SCHEV” poster always jumps into these discussions and overinflates the role of Virginia public high school guidance counselors on “steering” students to certain VA colleges. Maybe it happens at Langley, but not in any other VA public high school that I ever heard of and certainly not at my kids’ VA public school. They let my kids and all of their friends apply to any VA school they wanted to and didn’t blink an eye. Their reputations were not “on the line” and they’re not all gunning to join college admissions committees either. That’s absurd. I have no idea where this poster has gotten these crazy ideas from, but to extrapolate from their own personal experience where they were advised that their kid wasn’t getting into UVA that all NOVA guidance counselors are steering committees is ridiculous. It’s simply not true.

UVA is without question less selective than Georgetown for in state applicant. It’s not less selective for out of state applicants, however, and the school without question enrolls many, many in state students who could have gotten into Georgetown but never even applied because it makes no sense financially.

I wonder if UVA OOS is really that much more selective than in state these days. There is a lot of competition for those good OOS students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is such a ridiculous discussion.

Georgetown is way more selective than UVA: 16% vs 22%. And that's before taking into account the fact that all Common App colleges have artificially low acceptance rates, including UVA. Georgetown does not participate in the Common App.

But financially, instate UVA is OBVIOUSLY the better choice.
Academically, there is no question GU is more reputable.

Done.

End of discussion.

I think you are new to college admissions. If you research it here or anywhere online you will learn that you cannot compare the selectivity/acceptance rates of our nation's public universities to that of private institutions. There are many reasons why but primarily, and certainly in Virginia and California, the applicant pool to the top public schools is self-selecting. Due to SCHEV and other statistical resources, applicants know exactly where they stand vis-a-vis the prior entering class, so can make a better call on chances of getting in than they can for privates. This is also done by the public high school counselor whose job it is to direct applicants to the most suitable public university. When we met with the Langley high school counselor there was absolutely no question that our DD was not UVA material. And if we had pushed on it, the counselor whips out the SCHEV statistics and Naviance to demonstrate why. We could readily see she had a chance of getting into GMU but never UVA or W&M. The public high school counselor will not support the application. Can a parent force it? I suppose so but I've never heard it done. And remember that public high school counselor (whose reputation is on the line with the public universities and often wants to move into admissions at one of those schools) won't be apt to work the letters of recommendation and check off the "most rigorous" box or rave about the student in the advisor's own letter of recommendation (in VA the public high school counselor writes their own letter to the public schools). Because of this system of screening and checks, the applicant pool to the top publics is very elite and primarily the top 6% of public high school students. Hence the rate of selectivity is lower than privates - and remember that privates can throw millions of dollars at marketing to inflate the applicant pool class in order to drive down the acceptance/selectivity numbers. Publics don't have those resources. This is why USNWR doesn't require institutions to submit selectivity numbers anymore . . . they are too easily manipulated by the private institutions, like Northwestern, U of Chicago and Northeastern.

The result is that the top publics have higher percentages of acceptance than top privates: U of Florida is 31.1%; the University of Michigan is 26.1%; UCLA 14.3%; Berkeley is 17.5%; the University of Texas (on a very different system) 32%; the University of North Carolina, 25% (OOS is 10.5%). All of these schools have become very difficult to get into - especially for OOS as states drive down on the number of OOS as demand by taxpayers increases.

So UVA at 22.6% (OOS 17%) is right in line with the other publics. But even amongst publics you can't compare precisely because of the system of applicants and the screening role of the public high school counselors. But all counselors will tell you that getting in OOS at UCLA, Berkeley, UNC, etc. is unlikely because of the quality of competition. In California, the OOS class is limited to only 10% as is UNC.

A better indicator of prestige and quality of student are the SCHEV statistics which show that the applicants who arrive on campus have higher stats than Georgetown. Last fall, the 75th percentile of enrolled (the students who actually showed up, not the accepted class, which is higher; some turn down UVA for Ivies or SLACs), was a 4.52 weighted GPA; a whopping 35 on the ACT and a 1510 SAT/=. The median has a 4.39, a whopping 34 ACT and a 1450. Even the bottom 25th percentile has a 4.23, a 32 ACT and a 1400. Now someone will come on and say SCHEV doesn't include all the entering students but SCHEV is a FAR BETTER tool than exists for the private schools in other states. Every Virginia parent should be using it as a reference guide for all privates (yes SCHEV covers privates too) and publics. All the stats you need to know are there. Just enter the name of the college and dig in. Then go to your high school Naviance or equivalent and compare your student's stats to those of his own class. Uou will come away with a very realistic view of your child's chances of getting into Virginia schools. Because we have this tool, applicants are better able to apply to the institutions that they have a chance of getting into. There is no equivalent in other states. https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

The “SCHEV” poster always jumps into these discussions and overinflates the role of Virginia public high school guidance counselors on “steering” students to certain VA colleges. Maybe it happens at Langley, but not in any other VA public high school that I ever heard of and certainly not at my kids’ VA public school. They let my kids and all of their friends apply to any VA school they wanted to and didn’t blink an eye. Their reputations were not “on the line” and they’re not all gunning to join college admissions committees either. That’s absurd. I have no idea where this poster has gotten these crazy ideas from, but to extrapolate from their own personal experience where they were advised that their kid wasn’t getting into UVA that all NOVA guidance counselors are steering committees is ridiculous. It’s simply not true.

UVA is without question less selective than Georgetown for in state applicant. It’s not less selective for out of state applicants, however, and the school without question enrolls many, many in state students who could have gotten into Georgetown but never even applied because it makes no sense financially.

I wonder if UVA OOS is really that much more selective than in state these days. There is a lot of competition for those good OOS students.

Google is your friend: 28 percent of in state applicants were accepted, compared to 15 percent of out of state applicants. So, yes, out of state applicants are accepted at a much lower rate.

https://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2022/03/u-va-accepts-record-low-19-percent-of-50962-applicants-for-class-of-2026

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is such a ridiculous discussion.

Georgetown is way more selective than UVA: 16% vs 22%. And that's before taking into account the fact that all Common App colleges have artificially low acceptance rates, including UVA. Georgetown does not participate in the Common App.

But financially, instate UVA is OBVIOUSLY the better choice.
Academically, there is no question GU is more reputable.

Done.

End of discussion.

I think you are new to college admissions. If you research it here or anywhere online you will learn that you cannot compare the selectivity/acceptance rates of our nation's public universities to that of private institutions. There are many reasons why but primarily, and certainly in Virginia and California, the applicant pool to the top public schools is self-selecting. Due to SCHEV and other statistical resources, applicants know exactly where they stand vis-a-vis the prior entering class, so can make a better call on chances of getting in than they can for privates. This is also done by the public high school counselor whose job it is to direct applicants to the most suitable public university. When we met with the Langley high school counselor there was absolutely no question that our DD was not UVA material. And if we had pushed on it, the counselor whips out the SCHEV statistics and Naviance to demonstrate why. We could readily see she had a chance of getting into GMU but never UVA or W&M. The public high school counselor will not support the application. Can a parent force it? I suppose so but I've never heard it done. And remember that public high school counselor (whose reputation is on the line with the public universities and often wants to move into admissions at one of those schools) won't be apt to work the letters of recommendation and check off the "most rigorous" box or rave about the student in the advisor's own letter of recommendation (in VA the public high school counselor writes their own letter to the public schools). Because of this system of screening and checks, the applicant pool to the top publics is very elite and primarily the top 6% of public high school students. Hence the rate of selectivity is lower than privates - and remember that privates can throw millions of dollars at marketing to inflate the applicant pool class in order to drive down the acceptance/selectivity numbers. Publics don't have those resources. This is why USNWR doesn't require institutions to submit selectivity numbers anymore . . . they are too easily manipulated by the private institutions, like Northwestern, U of Chicago and Northeastern.

The result is that the top publics have higher percentages of acceptance than top privates: U of Florida is 31.1%; the University of Michigan is 26.1%; UCLA 14.3%; Berkeley is 17.5%; the University of Texas (on a very different system) 32%; the University of North Carolina, 25% (OOS is 10.5%). All of these schools have become very difficult to get into - especially for OOS as states drive down on the number of OOS as demand by taxpayers increases.

So UVA at 22.6% (OOS 17%) is right in line with the other publics. But even amongst publics you can't compare precisely because of the system of applicants and the screening role of the public high school counselors. But all counselors will tell you that getting in OOS at UCLA, Berkeley, UNC, etc. is unlikely because of the quality of competition. In California, the OOS class is limited to only 10% as is UNC.

A better indicator of prestige and quality of student are the SCHEV statistics which show that the applicants who arrive on campus have higher stats than Georgetown. Last fall, the 75th percentile of enrolled (the students who actually showed up, not the accepted class, which is higher; some turn down UVA for Ivies or SLACs), was a 4.52 weighted GPA; a whopping 35 on the ACT and a 1510 SAT/=. The median has a 4.39, a whopping 34 ACT and a 1450. Even the bottom 25th percentile has a 4.23, a 32 ACT and a 1400. Now someone will come on and say SCHEV doesn't include all the entering students but SCHEV is a FAR BETTER tool than exists for the private schools in other states. Every Virginia parent should be using it as a reference guide for all privates (yes SCHEV covers privates too) and publics. All the stats you need to know are there. Just enter the name of the college and dig in. Then go to your high school Naviance or equivalent and compare your student's stats to those of his own class. Uou will come away with a very realistic view of your child's chances of getting into Virginia schools. Because we have this tool, applicants are better able to apply to the institutions that they have a chance of getting into. There is no equivalent in other states. https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

The “SCHEV” poster always jumps into these discussions and overinflates the role of Virginia public high school guidance counselors on “steering” students to certain VA colleges. Maybe it happens at Langley, but not in any other VA public high school that I ever heard of and certainly not at my kids’ VA public school. They let my kids and all of their friends apply to any VA school they wanted to and didn’t blink an eye. Their reputations were not “on the line” and they’re not all gunning to join college admissions committees either. That’s absurd. I have no idea where this poster has gotten these crazy ideas from, but to extrapolate from their own personal experience where they were advised that their kid wasn’t getting into UVA that all NOVA guidance counselors are steering committees is ridiculous. It’s simply not true.

UVA is without question less selective than Georgetown for in state applicant. It’s not less selective for out of state applicants, however, and the school without question enrolls many, many in state students who could have gotten into Georgetown but never even applied because it makes no sense financially.

I wonder if UVA OOS is really that much more selective than in state these days. There is a lot of competition for those good OOS students.

Google is your friend: 28 percent of in state applicants were accepted, compared to 15 percent of out of state applicants. So, yes, out of state applicants are accepted at a much lower rate.

https://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2022/03/u-va-accepts-record-low-19-percent-of-50962-applicants-for-class-of-2026

DP. True, but you also have to consider that the OOS pool can endlessly grow, which would continue to decrease the OOS admit rate. On the other hand, the number of VA HS seniors is relatively constant and the school is required by VA law to admit a class two-thirds VA students, so there are limits on how selective the school can be with VA kids. Given those constraints, UVA has one of the lowest instate admit rates of any public college, which means a lot of VA kids want to go there and some are very well qualified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is such a ridiculous discussion.

Georgetown is way more selective than UVA: 16% vs 22%. And that's before taking into account the fact that all Common App colleges have artificially low acceptance rates, including UVA. Georgetown does not participate in the Common App.

But financially, instate UVA is OBVIOUSLY the better choice.
Academically, there is no question GU is more reputable.

Done.

End of discussion.

I think you are new to college admissions. If you research it here or anywhere online you will learn that you cannot compare the selectivity/acceptance rates of our nation's public universities to that of private institutions. There are many reasons why but primarily, and certainly in Virginia and California, the applicant pool to the top public schools is self-selecting. Due to SCHEV and other statistical resources, applicants know exactly where they stand vis-a-vis the prior entering class, so can make a better call on chances of getting in than they can for privates. This is also done by the public high school counselor whose job it is to direct applicants to the most suitable public university. When we met with the Langley high school counselor there was absolutely no question that our DD was not UVA material. And if we had pushed on it, the counselor whips out the SCHEV statistics and Naviance to demonstrate why. We could readily see she had a chance of getting into GMU but never UVA or W&M. The public high school counselor will not support the application. Can a parent force it? I suppose so but I've never heard it done. And remember that public high school counselor (whose reputation is on the line with the public universities and often wants to move into admissions at one of those schools) won't be apt to work the letters of recommendation and check off the "most rigorous" box or rave about the student in the advisor's own letter of recommendation (in VA the public high school counselor writes their own letter to the public schools). Because of this system of screening and checks, the applicant pool to the top publics is very elite and primarily the top 6% of public high school students. Hence the rate of selectivity is lower than privates - and remember that privates can throw millions of dollars at marketing to inflate the applicant pool class in order to drive down the acceptance/selectivity numbers. Publics don't have those resources. This is why USNWR doesn't require institutions to submit selectivity numbers anymore . . . they are too easily manipulated by the private institutions, like Northwestern, U of Chicago and Northeastern.

The result is that the top publics have higher percentages of acceptance than top privates: U of Florida is 31.1%; the University of Michigan is 26.1%; UCLA 14.3%; Berkeley is 17.5%; the University of Texas (on a very different system) 32%; the University of North Carolina, 25% (OOS is 10.5%). All of these schools have become very difficult to get into - especially for OOS as states drive down on the number of OOS as demand by taxpayers increases.

So UVA at 22.6% (OOS 17%) is right in line with the other publics. But even amongst publics you can't compare precisely because of the system of applicants and the screening role of the public high school counselors. But all counselors will tell you that getting in OOS at UCLA, Berkeley, UNC, etc. is unlikely because of the quality of competition. In California, the OOS class is limited to only 10% as is UNC.

A better indicator of prestige and quality of student are the SCHEV statistics which show that the applicants who arrive on campus have higher stats than Georgetown. Last fall, the 75th percentile of enrolled (the students who actually showed up, not the accepted class, which is higher; some turn down UVA for Ivies or SLACs), was a 4.52 weighted GPA; a whopping 35 on the ACT and a 1510 SAT/=. The median has a 4.39, a whopping 34 ACT and a 1450. Even the bottom 25th percentile has a 4.23, a 32 ACT and a 1400. Now someone will come on and say SCHEV doesn't include all the entering students but SCHEV is a FAR BETTER tool than exists for the private schools in other states. Every Virginia parent should be using it as a reference guide for all privates (yes SCHEV covers privates too) and publics. All the stats you need to know are there. Just enter the name of the college and dig in. Then go to your high school Naviance or equivalent and compare your student's stats to those of his own class. Uou will come away with a very realistic view of your child's chances of getting into Virginia schools. Because we have this tool, applicants are better able to apply to the institutions that they have a chance of getting into. There is no equivalent in other states. https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

The “SCHEV” poster always jumps into these discussions and overinflates the role of Virginia public high school guidance counselors on “steering” students to certain VA colleges. Maybe it happens at Langley, but not in any other VA public high school that I ever heard of and certainly not at my kids’ VA public school. They let my kids and all of their friends apply to any VA school they wanted to and didn’t blink an eye. Their reputations were not “on the line” and they’re not all gunning to join college admissions committees either. That’s absurd. I have no idea where this poster has gotten these crazy ideas from, but to extrapolate from their own personal experience where they were advised that their kid wasn’t getting into UVA that all NOVA guidance counselors are steering committees is ridiculous. It’s simply not true.

UVA is without question less selective than Georgetown for in state applicant. It’s not less selective for out of state applicants, however, and the school without question enrolls many, many in state students who could have gotten into Georgetown but never even applied because it makes no sense financially.

I wonder if UVA OOS is really that much more selective than in state these days. There is a lot of competition for those good OOS students.

Google is your friend: 28 percent of in state applicants were accepted, compared to 15 percent of out of state applicants. So, yes, out of state applicants are accepted at a much lower rate.

https://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2022/03/u-va-accepts-record-low-19-percent-of-50962-applicants-for-class-of-2026

DP. True, but you also have to consider that the OOS pool can endlessly grow, which would continue to decrease the OOS admit rate. On the other hand, the number of VA HS seniors is relatively constant and the school is required by VA law to admit a class two-thirds VA students, so there are limits on how selective the school can be with VA kids. Given those constraints, UVA has one of the lowest instate admit rates of any public college, which means a lot of VA kids want to go there and some are very well qualified.

I don’t agree. According to the 2020 census, Virginia’s population was up 7.9 percent, higher than the national average of 7.4 percent. The combination of the pandemic and a decline in birth rates has caused Virginia’s public school enrollment to become more stagnant, but it’s unlikely that Virginia is being hit any worse than the country as a whole. If Virginia is stagnant, the nation is stagnant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is such a ridiculous discussion.

Georgetown is way more selective than UVA: 16% vs 22%. And that's before taking into account the fact that all Common App colleges have artificially low acceptance rates, including UVA. Georgetown does not participate in the Common App.

But financially, instate UVA is OBVIOUSLY the better choice.
Academically, there is no question GU is more reputable.

Done.

End of discussion.

I think you are new to college admissions. If you research it here or anywhere online you will learn that you cannot compare the selectivity/acceptance rates of our nation's public universities to that of private institutions. There are many reasons why but primarily, and certainly in Virginia and California, the applicant pool to the top public schools is self-selecting. Due to SCHEV and other statistical resources, applicants know exactly where they stand vis-a-vis the prior entering class, so can make a better call on chances of getting in than they can for privates. This is also done by the public high school counselor whose job it is to direct applicants to the most suitable public university. When we met with the Langley high school counselor there was absolutely no question that our DD was not UVA material. And if we had pushed on it, the counselor whips out the SCHEV statistics and Naviance to demonstrate why. We could readily see she had a chance of getting into GMU but never UVA or W&M. The public high school counselor will not support the application. Can a parent force it? I suppose so but I've never heard it done. And remember that public high school counselor (whose reputation is on the line with the public universities and often wants to move into admissions at one of those schools) won't be apt to work the letters of recommendation and check off the "most rigorous" box or rave about the student in the advisor's own letter of recommendation (in VA the public high school counselor writes their own letter to the public schools). Because of this system of screening and checks, the applicant pool to the top publics is very elite and primarily the top 6% of public high school students. Hence the rate of selectivity is lower than privates - and remember that privates can throw millions of dollars at marketing to inflate the applicant pool class in order to drive down the acceptance/selectivity numbers. Publics don't have those resources. This is why USNWR doesn't require institutions to submit selectivity numbers anymore . . . they are too easily manipulated by the private institutions, like Northwestern, U of Chicago and Northeastern.

The result is that the top publics have higher percentages of acceptance than top privates: U of Florida is 31.1%; the University of Michigan is 26.1%; UCLA 14.3%; Berkeley is 17.5%; the University of Texas (on a very different system) 32%; the University of North Carolina, 25% (OOS is 10.5%). All of these schools have become very difficult to get into - especially for OOS as states drive down on the number of OOS as demand by taxpayers increases.

So UVA at 22.6% (OOS 17%) is right in line with the other publics. But even amongst publics you can't compare precisely because of the system of applicants and the screening role of the public high school counselors. But all counselors will tell you that getting in OOS at UCLA, Berkeley, UNC, etc. is unlikely because of the quality of competition. In California, the OOS class is limited to only 10% as is UNC.

A better indicator of prestige and quality of student are the SCHEV statistics which show that the applicants who arrive on campus have higher stats than Georgetown. Last fall, the 75th percentile of enrolled (the students who actually showed up, not the accepted class, which is higher; some turn down UVA for Ivies or SLACs), was a 4.52 weighted GPA; a whopping 35 on the ACT and a 1510 SAT/=. The median has a 4.39, a whopping 34 ACT and a 1450. Even the bottom 25th percentile has a 4.23, a 32 ACT and a 1400. Now someone will come on and say SCHEV doesn't include all the entering students but SCHEV is a FAR BETTER tool than exists for the private schools in other states. Every Virginia parent should be using it as a reference guide for all privates (yes SCHEV covers privates too) and publics. All the stats you need to know are there. Just enter the name of the college and dig in. Then go to your high school Naviance or equivalent and compare your student's stats to those of his own class. Uou will come away with a very realistic view of your child's chances of getting into Virginia schools. Because we have this tool, applicants are better able to apply to the institutions that they have a chance of getting into. There is no equivalent in other states. https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

The “SCHEV” poster always jumps into these discussions and overinflates the role of Virginia public high school guidance counselors on “steering” students to certain VA colleges. Maybe it happens at Langley, but not in any other VA public high school that I ever heard of and certainly not at my kids’ VA public school. They let my kids and all of their friends apply to any VA school they wanted to and didn’t blink an eye. Their reputations were not “on the line” and they’re not all gunning to join college admissions committees either. That’s absurd. I have no idea where this poster has gotten these crazy ideas from, but to extrapolate from their own personal experience where they were advised that their kid wasn’t getting into UVA that all NOVA guidance counselors are steering committees is ridiculous. It’s simply not true.

UVA is without question less selective than Georgetown for in state applicant. It’s not less selective for out of state applicants, however, and the school without question enrolls many, many in state students who could have gotten into Georgetown but never even applied because it makes no sense financially.

I wonder if UVA OOS is really that much more selective than in state these days. There is a lot of competition for those good OOS students.

Google is your friend: 28 percent of in state applicants were accepted, compared to 15 percent of out of state applicants. So, yes, out of state applicants are accepted at a much lower rate.

https://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2022/03/u-va-accepts-record-low-19-percent-of-50962-applicants-for-class-of-2026

Stats are more indicative than acceptance rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown > UVA in general

but if full pay at Georgetown vs UVA Instate

UVA > Georgetown

This is my thinking too, though I f@kng hate UVA…with a passion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS really wants to go to Georgetown. People seem surprised that he would want to go to Georgetown over UVA since they are similarly ranked and UVA would cost 1/3 the tuition. In our circles, tons of students go to UVA but very few seem to pick Georgetown.

Is it because of cost?

Are your circles ancient? Anyone who keeps up knows that UVA runs circles around Georgetown unless possibly you’re talking about a bilingual foreign service student with summers of internships .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS really wants to go to Georgetown. People seem surprised that he would want to go to Georgetown over UVA since they are similarly ranked and UVA would cost 1/3 the tuition. In our circles, tons of students go to UVA but very few seem to pick Georgetown.

Is it because of cost?

Are your circles ancient? Anyone who keeps up knows that UVA runs circles around Georgetown unless possibly you’re talking about a bilingual foreign service student with summers of internships .

Geez

[Anonymous]

Is the SCHEV poster the same person as the “most rigorous” check box person.

Because I didn’t realize I had two boxes on my bingo card for the same person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is such a ridiculous discussion.

Georgetown is way more selective than UVA: 16% vs 22%. And that's before taking into account the fact that all Common App colleges have artificially low acceptance rates, including UVA. Georgetown does not participate in the Common App.

But financially, instate UVA is OBVIOUSLY the better choice.
Academically, there is no question GU is more reputable.

Done.

End of discussion.

I think you are new to college admissions. If you research it here or anywhere online you will learn that you cannot compare the selectivity/acceptance rates of our nation's public universities to that of private institutions. There are many reasons why but primarily, and certainly in Virginia and California, the applicant pool to the top public schools is self-selecting. Due to SCHEV and other statistical resources, applicants know exactly where they stand vis-a-vis the prior entering class, so can make a better call on chances of getting in than they can for privates. This is also done by the public high school counselor whose job it is to direct applicants to the most suitable public university. When we met with the Langley high school counselor there was absolutely no question that our DD was not UVA material. And if we had pushed on it, the counselor whips out the SCHEV statistics and Naviance to demonstrate why. We could readily see she had a chance of getting into GMU but never UVA or W&M. The public high school counselor will not support the application. Can a parent force it? I suppose so but I've never heard it done. And remember that public high school counselor (whose reputation is on the line with the public universities and often wants to move into admissions at one of those schools) won't be apt to work the letters of recommendation and check off the "most rigorous" box or rave about the student in the advisor's own letter of recommendation (in VA the public high school counselor writes their own letter to the public schools). Because of this system of screening and checks, the applicant pool to the top publics is very elite and primarily the top 6% of public high school students. Hence the rate of selectivity is lower than privates - and remember that privates can throw millions of dollars at marketing to inflate the applicant pool class in order to drive down the acceptance/selectivity numbers. Publics don't have those resources. This is why USNWR doesn't require institutions to submit selectivity numbers anymore . . . they are too easily manipulated by the private institutions, like Northwestern, U of Chicago and Northeastern.

The result is that the top publics have higher percentages of acceptance than top privates: U of Florida is 31.1%; the University of Michigan is 26.1%; UCLA 14.3%; Berkeley is 17.5%; the University of Texas (on a very different system) 32%; the University of North Carolina, 25% (OOS is 10.5%). All of these schools have become very difficult to get into - especially for OOS as states drive down on the number of OOS as demand by taxpayers increases.

So UVA at 22.6% (OOS 17%) is right in line with the other publics. But even amongst publics you can't compare precisely because of the system of applicants and the screening role of the public high school counselors. But all counselors will tell you that getting in OOS at UCLA, Berkeley, UNC, etc. is unlikely because of the quality of competition. In California, the OOS class is limited to only 10% as is UNC.

A better indicator of prestige and quality of student are the SCHEV statistics which show that the applicants who arrive on campus have higher stats than Georgetown. Last fall, the 75th percentile of enrolled (the students who actually showed up, not the accepted class, which is higher; some turn down UVA for Ivies or SLACs), was a 4.52 weighted GPA; a whopping 35 on the ACT and a 1510 SAT/=. The median has a 4.39, a whopping 34 ACT and a 1450. Even the bottom 25th percentile has a 4.23, a 32 ACT and a 1400. Now someone will come on and say SCHEV doesn't include all the entering students but SCHEV is a FAR BETTER tool than exists for the private schools in other states. Every Virginia parent should be using it as a reference guide for all privates (yes SCHEV covers privates too) and publics. All the stats you need to know are there. Just enter the name of the college and dig in. Then go to your high school Naviance or equivalent and compare your student's stats to those of his own class. Uou will come away with a very realistic view of your child's chances of getting into Virginia schools. Because we have this tool, applicants are better able to apply to the institutions that they have a chance of getting into. There is no equivalent in other states. https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

The “SCHEV” poster always jumps into these discussions and overinflates the role of Virginia public high school guidance counselors on “steering” students to certain VA colleges. Maybe it happens at Langley, but not in any other VA public high school that I ever heard of and certainly not at my kids’ VA public school. They let my kids and all of their friends apply to any VA school they wanted to and didn’t blink an eye. Their reputations were not “on the line” and they’re not all gunning to join college admissions committees either. That’s absurd. I have no idea where this poster has gotten these crazy ideas from, but to extrapolate from their own personal experience where they were advised that their kid wasn’t getting into UVA that all NOVA guidance counselors are steering committees is ridiculous. It’s simply not true.

UVA is without question less selective than Georgetown for in state applicant. It’s not less selective for out of state applicants, however, and the school without question enrolls many, many in state students who could have gotten into Georgetown but never even applied because it makes no sense financially.

I wonder if UVA OOS is really that much more selective than in state these days. There is a lot of competition for those good OOS students.

Google is your friend: 28 percent of in state applicants were accepted, compared to 15 percent of out of state applicants. So, yes, out of state applicants are accepted at a much lower rate.

https://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2022/03/u-va-accepts-record-low-19-percent-of-50962-applicants-for-class-of-2026

Stats are more indicative than acceptance rate.

Duh, obviously, and one can google that too and see that the stats for students admitted from out of state are on average higher than in state. The gap is decreasing though.

Huger stats and lower acceptance rates = more selective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the SCHEV poster the same person as the “most rigorous” check box person.

Because I didn’t realize I had two boxes on my bingo card for the same person.

Yes, they are clearly the same poster. I have no idea how they have concluded that they are such experts on admissions to VA state colleges, when clearly they are off base. My guess is that they met personally with the guidance counselor at Langley and made broad conclusions on the basis of that meeting. Most of us never meet with our public high school guidance counselors. It never occurred to us to do that with any of our four kids, and I don’t know of anybody else who did either. Then again, we are not a Langley family. They’re probably a little more intense and nuts on average.