Your daily reminder that expecting parents to teach their kids at home is super inequitable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the point was missed here. Sure, children with involved parents will always have advantages. Socially, educationally, etc. But no parent should have to teach their child basic reading, writing, and arithmetic. That is in fact the job of the school. We should ALL want EVERY child to learn those basic things at school regardless of their parents' level of engagement at home.

Most schools don’t have a problem teaching basic skills if the kid is reasonably ready and willing. But I think you are underestimating just how bad the situation is at some of these schools. There are schools where the kids barely show up for classes and never turn in homework. What is a school supposed to do with that?

Remember the story of that Baltimore senior with a 0.13GPA? GPA wise he was in the upper half of his class! That means over half of his senior class had a GPA equal or lower than 0.13! I’m sure the school could have done some things better, but at what point do parents bear some responsibility?

In ES, our school did not teach math facts. It taught strategies. Kids need to learn math facts/tables. So, its on the parents. They also don't teach spelling, grammar, and many other things. They also didn't teach typing during virtual or by MS when kids use computers more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the point was missed here. Sure, children with involved parents will always have advantages. Socially, educationally, etc. But no parent should have to teach their child basic reading, writing, and arithmetic. That is in fact the job of the school. We should ALL want EVERY child to learn those basic things at school regardless of their parents' level of engagement at home.

Most schools don’t have a problem teaching basic skills if the kid is reasonably ready and willing. But I think you are underestimating just how bad the situation is at some of these schools. There are schools where the kids barely show up for classes and never turn in homework. What is a school supposed to do with that?

Remember the story of that Baltimore senior with a 0.13GPA? GPA wise he was in the upper half of his class! That means over half of his senior class had a GPA equal or lower than 0.13! I’m sure the school could have done some things better, but at what point do parents bear some responsibility?

In ES, our school did not teach math facts. It taught strategies. Kids need to learn math facts/tables. So, its on the parents. They also don't teach spelling, grammar, and many other things. They also didn't teach typing during virtual or by MS when kids use computers more.

I can't speak to how efficacious those particular "strategies" may have or not have been, but the schools should certainly be teaching math strategies/concepts so that kids understand what the hell is going on. You teach the concepts so that the kids can derive the facts, which they will necessarily memorize over time. I mean, I could teach my 3 y/o to memorize his "math facts," but what good would that be if he has no idea how to derive the facts and extrapolate from them?!!?!? The schools really need to do a better job of community this to parents, but this isn't exactly a state secret.

https://mathgeekmama.com/how-to-teach-multiplication-facts/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the point was missed here. Sure, children with involved parents will always have advantages. Socially, educationally, etc. But no parent should have to teach their child basic reading, writing, and arithmetic. That is in fact the job of the school. We should ALL want EVERY child to learn those basic things at school regardless of their parents' level of engagement at home.

Thank you! You get it!

And other PPs - don’t cite Baltimore schools as your strawman. There are plenty of schools where kids come ready to learn but through no fault of their own have gaps in their learning because the school has gaps in its curriculum! The parents realize this after the fact and then stress out trying to homeschool them after school, or sign them up for expensive tutoring. It’s really sad to see.

It would almost be better if the school sent a note home “We are covering math strategies in class but do not have time to spend on math facts. Please review these equations at home.” At least it would save the parent the trouble of researching what to do themselves.

Well-rated schools are coasting on the ability of parents to “supplement” and essentially homeschool. And it stresses the parents out, causes them to not enjoy time at home with their child, and likely leads to anxiety and depression in the child since they have fewer positive “fun” interactions with their parents.

I went private with my second from the start to escape this. I still regularly check on the curriculum and my child’s learning but haven’t felt there is anything missing that I need to supplement. This is obviously not a possibility for many though.

[Anonymous]

Parents that supplement are selfish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents that supplement are selfish.

Selfish here. Even worse, my kid enjoys math competitions and takes a class for math competitions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents that supplement are selfish.

Selfish here. Even worse, my kid enjoys math competitions and takes a class for math competitions.

How dare you! Think of the (other) children!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is directed towards posters who retort “teach them yourselves!” when parents complain that their school doesn’t teach phonics, handwriting, spelling, grammar, multiplication tables, etc.

The *only* thing parents should be responsible for is ensuring their kids are well fed and rested, and mentally and physically ready to learn at school. If there are not enough hours in the school day to do everything, teachers should be sending explicit instructions to the parents about what to do at home (eg please have your child drill these times tables until they’ve memorized them). This is also known as “homework”.

Lmfao I’m not even reading your post. The title says it all. That’s why this country is going to shyt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the point was missed here. Sure, children with involved parents will always have advantages. Socially, educationally, etc. But no parent should have to teach their child basic reading, writing, and arithmetic. That is in fact the job of the school. We should ALL want EVERY child to learn those basic things at school regardless of their parents' level of engagement at home.

Thank you! You get it!

And other PPs - don’t cite Baltimore schools as your strawman. There are plenty of schools where kids come ready to learn but through no fault of their own have gaps in their learning because the school has gaps in its curriculum! The parents realize this after the fact and then stress out trying to homeschool them after school, or sign them up for expensive tutoring. It’s really sad to see.

It would almost be better if the school sent a note home “We are covering math strategies in class but do not have time to spend on math facts. Please review these equations at home.” At least it would save the parent the trouble of researching what to do themselves.

Well-rated schools are coasting on the ability of parents to “supplement” and essentially homeschool. And it stresses the parents out, causes them to not enjoy time at home with their child, and likely leads to anxiety and depression in the child since they have fewer positive “fun” interactions with their parents.

I went private with my second from the start to escape this. I still regularly check on the curriculum and my child’s learning but haven’t felt there is anything missing that I need to supplement. This is obviously not a possibility for many though.

This used to be called "home-work" and was very common in middle and upper elementary, but then parents in certain places (mostly white, UMC) were upset about how much homework their kids were getting. Let kids be kids! They need to play! So schools start adopting no-homework policies and that meant that some of the rote memorization of things like sight words or multiplication tables didn't make the cut, since those are things it's honestly hard to integrate into a classroom environment while keeping it interesting for the kids. Those things are much easier to send home as worksheets and then test the kids on to check in on their knowledge acquisition. But don't test kids! It's too stressful! See where this is going?

It's not just the school's fault, or the teacher's fault. It goes to these fundamental disagreements about what school is for, what childhood should be like, how we can support kids where they are at while preparing the for the future. And even what kind of future we are preparing them for. UMC white kids are often being prepared for a much gentler, more friendly future than kids from working class and poor families, especially if they are POC. So you often see more homework, testing, worksheets, and rote memorization in schools with higher number software FARMS kids because there is an understanding that (1) the parents really do not have the time or resources to do this, and (2) these kids have to prepare for a reality where they will not always be given the benefit of the doubt, there will not always be someone available to help them fill in a knowledge gap.

Truthfully I just don't worry about UMC white kids academically. The problem comes when everyone decides the schools attended by UMC white kids are the "best" schools because look at our test scores (ignoring the determinative impact of SES on test scores). What I find is that often the best schools serve a much more diverse student body, know how to support FARMS kids and other high risk kids who need more structure, more homework, but can also facilitate kids above grade level who need a challenge or a way to hold their interest and attention. It's hard. These schools are rare. They are often filled with teachers and administrators who 100% view the road of school to educate children, whatever their family background, and rise to that occasion. Often these schools are dismissed as inadequate due to test scores. Interesting, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

Tiger mom here. Don’t care and they will stay productive at home. Do what you want with your own kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents that supplement are selfish.

Troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the point was missed here. Sure, children with involved parents will always have advantages. Socially, educationally, etc. But no parent should have to teach their child basic reading, writing, and arithmetic. That is in fact the job of the school. We should ALL want EVERY child to learn those basic things at school regardless of their parents' level of engagement at home.

Thank you! You get it!

And other PPs - don’t cite Baltimore schools as your strawman. There are plenty of schools where kids come ready to learn but through no fault of their own have gaps in their learning because the school has gaps in its curriculum! The parents realize this after the fact and then stress out trying to homeschool them after school, or sign them up for expensive tutoring. It’s really sad to see.

It would almost be better if the school sent a note home “We are covering math strategies in class but do not have time to spend on math facts. Please review these equations at home.” At least it would save the parent the trouble of researching what to do themselves.

Well-rated schools are coasting on the ability of parents to “supplement” and essentially homeschool. And it stresses the parents out, causes them to not enjoy time at home with their child, and likely leads to anxiety and depression in the child since they have fewer positive “fun” interactions with their parents.

I went private with my second from the start to escape this. I still regularly check on the curriculum and my child’s learning but haven’t felt there is anything missing that I need to supplement. This is obviously not a possibility for many though.

This used to be called "home-work" and was very common in middle and upper elementary, but then parents in certain places (mostly white, UMC) were upset about how much homework their kids were getting. Let kids be kids! They need to play! So schools start adopting no-homework policies and that meant that some of the rote memorization of things like sight words or multiplication tables didn't make the cut, since those are things it's honestly hard to integrate into a classroom environment while keeping it interesting for the kids. Those things are much easier to send home as worksheets and then test the kids on to check in on their knowledge acquisition. But don't test kids! It's too stressful! See where this is going?

It's not just the school's fault, or the teacher's fault. It goes to these fundamental disagreements about what school is for, what childhood should be like, how we can support kids where they are at while preparing the for the future. And even what kind of future we are preparing them for. UMC white kids are often being prepared for a much gentler, more friendly future than kids from working class and poor families, especially if they are POC. So you often see more homework, testing, worksheets, and rote memorization in schools with higher number software FARMS kids because there is an understanding that (1) the parents really do not have the time or resources to do this, and (2) these kids have to prepare for a reality where they will not always be given the benefit of the doubt, there will not always be someone available to help them fill in a knowledge gap.

Truthfully I just don't worry about UMC white kids academically. The problem comes when everyone decides the schools attended by UMC white kids are the "best" schools because look at our test scores (ignoring the determinative impact of SES on test scores). What I find is that often the best schools serve a much more diverse student body, know how to support FARMS kids and other high risk kids who need more structure, more homework, but can also facilitate kids above grade level who need a challenge or a way to hold their interest and attention. It's hard. These schools are rare. They are often filled with teachers and administrators who 100% view the road of school to educate children, whatever their family background, and rise to that occasion. Often these schools are dismissed as inadequate due to test scores. Interesting, isn't it?

This comment makes too much damn sense for DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the point was missed here. Sure, children with involved parents will always have advantages. Socially, educationally, etc. But no parent should have to teach their child basic reading, writing, and arithmetic. That is in fact the job of the school. We should ALL want EVERY child to learn those basic things at school regardless of their parents' level of engagement at home.

Thank you! You get it!

And other PPs - don’t cite Baltimore schools as your strawman. There are plenty of schools where kids come ready to learn but through no fault of their own have gaps in their learning because the school has gaps in its curriculum! The parents realize this after the fact and then stress out trying to homeschool them after school, or sign them up for expensive tutoring. It’s really sad to see.

It would almost be better if the school sent a note home “We are covering math strategies in class but do not have time to spend on math facts. Please review these equations at home.” At least it would save the parent the trouble of researching what to do themselves.

Well-rated schools are coasting on the ability of parents to “supplement” and essentially homeschool. And it stresses the parents out, causes them to not enjoy time at home with their child, and likely leads to anxiety and depression in the child since they have fewer positive “fun” interactions with their parents.

I went private with my second from the start to escape this. I still regularly check on the curriculum and my child’s learning but haven’t felt there is anything missing that I need to supplement. This is obviously not a possibility for many though.

This used to be called "home-work" and was very common in middle and upper elementary, but then parents in certain places (mostly white, UMC) were upset about how much homework their kids were getting. Let kids be kids! They need to play! So schools start adopting no-homework policies and that meant that some of the rote memorization of things like sight words or multiplication tables didn't make the cut, since those are things it's honestly hard to integrate into a classroom environment while keeping it interesting for the kids. Those things are much easier to send home as worksheets and then test the kids on to check in on their knowledge acquisition. But don't test kids! It's too stressful! See where this is going?

It's not just the school's fault, or the teacher's fault. It goes to these fundamental disagreements about what school is for, what childhood should be like, how we can support kids where they are at while preparing the for the future. And even what kind of future we are preparing them for. UMC white kids are often being prepared for a much gentler, more friendly future than kids from working class and poor families, especially if they are POC. So you often see more homework, testing, worksheets, and rote memorization in schools with higher number software FARMS kids because there is an understanding that (1) the parents really do not have the time or resources to do this, and (2) these kids have to prepare for a reality where they will not always be given the benefit of the doubt, there will not always be someone available to help them fill in a knowledge gap.

Truthfully I just don't worry about UMC white kids academically. The problem comes when everyone decides the schools attended by UMC white kids are the "best" schools because look at our test scores (ignoring the determinative impact of SES on test scores). What I find is that often the best schools serve a much more diverse student body, know how to support FARMS kids and other high risk kids who need more structure, more homework, but can also facilitate kids above grade level who need a challenge or a way to hold their interest and attention. It's hard. These schools are rare. They are often filled with teachers and administrators who 100% view the road of school to educate children, whatever their family background, and rise to that occasion. Often these schools are dismissed as inadequate due to test scores. Interesting, isn't it?

Yes, anytime "Tyrone" makes a mistake it's, well, what do you expect given his "background." We're just happy he's "approaching" expectations.

But little Timmy messes up -- he just need to work a bit harder, we know he can do better.

[Anonymous]

But don't test kids! It's too stressful! See where this is going?

Huh? There are so many state tests. Too many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is directed towards posters who retort “teach them yourselves!” when parents complain that their school doesn’t teach phonics, handwriting, spelling, grammar, multiplication tables, etc.

The *only* thing parents should be responsible for is ensuring their kids are well fed and rested, and mentally and physically ready to learn at school. If there are not enough hours in the school day to do everything, teachers should be sending explicit instructions to the parents about what to do at home (eg please have your child drill these times tables until they’ve memorized them). This is also known as “homework”.

People want different things from education. My kids came to school reading, I don't want phonics lessons for them but I agree it's needed for those who didn't pick up reading on their own. So I give up a little there--and they do teach phonics. But if 85% of the class is reading, the kids who need more may need to supplement phonics at home. I don't think handwriting and spelling are that important in the digital age. I think the amount they get on both of those is just enough. My kids were in AAP math and we were told that they should know their times tables before starting 3rd grade so they did the on-line games that got those down over the summer. I accept that if I want accelerated math some of it will have to be covered outside of school.

I wish they spent a lot more time on science and doing extended science projects in ES, but other parents wish they spent more time on reading, math, handwriting, spelling. The SoLs represent the shared responsibility of what teachers need to teach in this state. You look at what those things are and if there are things that are not on there that you value, you supplement and/or advocate for inclusion. Just realize we all want different things outside of those basics, and may have different ideas on how much of the "basics" are enough.

Just so you know, quite a bit of research disagrees with you here...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210319080820.htm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is directed towards posters who retort “teach them yourselves!” when parents complain that their school doesn’t teach phonics, handwriting, spelling, grammar, multiplication tables, etc.

The *only* thing parents should be responsible for is ensuring their kids are well fed and rested, and mentally and physically ready to learn at school. If there are not enough hours in the school day to do everything, teachers should be sending explicit instructions to the parents about what to do at home (eg please have your child drill these times tables until they’ve memorized them). This is also known as “homework”.

People want different things from education. My kids came to school reading, I don't want phonics lessons for them but I agree it's needed for those who didn't pick up reading on their own. So I give up a little there--and they do teach phonics. But if 85% of the class is reading, the kids who need more may need to supplement phonics at home. I don't think handwriting and spelling are that important in the digital age. I think the amount they get on both of those is just enough. My kids were in AAP math and we were told that they should know their times tables before starting 3rd grade so they did the on-line games that got those down over the summer. I accept that if I want accelerated math some of it will have to be covered outside of school.

I wish they spent a lot more time on science and doing extended science projects in ES, but other parents wish they spent more time on reading, math, handwriting, spelling. The SoLs represent the shared responsibility of what teachers need to teach in this state. You look at what those things are and if there are things that are not on there that you value, you supplement and/or advocate for inclusion. Just realize we all want different things outside of those basics, and may have different ideas on how much of the "basics" are enough.

Just so you know, quite a bit of research disagrees with you here...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210319080820.htm

I'm not arguing that kids shouldn't write by hand, just that we don't need to spend endless time teaching to form. They can learn handwriting by writing in whatever form they use--that's what the research suggests.