Anonymous wrote:I think if you have a good job and don't have a history of unemployment, a relatively high up title or a high paying field, if you have a good education and a decent degree, I'd conclude on my own that you make the $$$ grade. (As do I).
You value his job title. Why?
Assistant = $50k
Manager, director, etc etc
VP likely $150k and up
I’m a VP and appreciate someone heading that way.
That said an HVAC guy who maintains a 9 to 5 Would be fine too.
Hard work equals my respect.
There are plenty of careers where non managerial roles still bring in 400k+, especially in tech.
Anonymous wrote:It wholly depends on the life you are trying to lead, and the life your partner is trying to lead, and synchronizing those goals.
If you want your wife to stay home for the first year, the first five years OR if you want your wife to have an interesting and well paid job and have a good nanny, I put the floor at about $250,000 in this area.
If you both want to work and you have a good daycare option maybe $150,000/each
Some adjustments for where you want to live, how much vacation you want to take, whether you want to send kids to
Private school or whether you will pay for college all factor in, but HHI for this area, $250,000+
Riiight, you both need to make $150k to swing decent daycare.
Can you imagine the society we'd live in if everyone thought like this before having kids? We'd go extinct.
Firstly I didn’t say it was what it would cost for daycare, I said it was the cost of both people wanted to WOTH, so no nanny cost or SAHP childcare savings.
Sure let’s imagine a society where people being children into the world planning to pay for their college? To not burden them with the costs of their parents in retirement? That’s really what makes you worry for the figure of society?
DP. I'm in my 50s, been married 25+ years and our HHI has never been more than $200K/year. There was a 2 year period my DH was unemployed/underemployed and our HHI dropped to about $120K. Yet, we own our home, sent our kids to daycare, have over $100K in college savings for our kids and over $1M in retirement savings. We've had to pick/choose where our money goes. When we take vacations, we usually visit family. We drive 10+ year old cars and never buy them new. We take our coffee in thermoses to work and pack lunches. We rarely eat out. I'm sure you're life looks very different and mine is not appealing to you. That's fine. But, you've got a very unrealistic view of what level of income is needed for a good life in this area.
You’re dating yourself. $100k in college savings for more than one kid? So you’re paying…one year each if they go to private school? Two if they go to state?
PP you're responding to. I don't know what you mean by 'dating myself'. I already said I'm in my 50s. For 3 kids, we have over $100K total. We don't expect to be able to pay for 4 years of college for our kids but to help them as we can. My oldest is going to NoVa and is planning to transfer to Virginia Tech or UVA through Virginia's guaranteed admissions program. So far, we've not had to tap into my oldest kid's 529 account because he's living at home and we can afford community college tuition/books/fees. DS also works part time as do our other 2 kids.
Our kids understand what it costs to go to college and what DH and I can contribute. We help them determine what path they want to take. My middle child is in 11th grade and starting to narrow down her college choices. She's already taking college classes through dual enrollment/jump start and will likely take summer classes at NoVa. Her debt load will likely be higher than my oldest but she's also working on scholarships. It's unlikely she'll graduate with large amounts of debt because she's as pragmatic as DH and I are.
When looking for a life partner, I was not looking for one that could fully fund our kids' college expenses. I prioritized some who was on the same financial page that I was - in addition to being a good partner. We opened a 529 for each kid the month they were born and paid into each account $50/month. Not much but it's added up.
I mean you’re dating yourself: your kids are in college *now* and you’re not paying for most of it. OP’s hypothetical children with a hypothetical wife would be starting school in 2042, when in-state tuition for UVA is projected to be $40k/year. It’s also a false distinction to say you prioritized “being on the same page” over “fully funding college” because plenty of people are on the same page— about fully funding college and not saddling their children with debt. That’s part of sharing values. In my case both me and my husband graduated with our Master’s degrees debt free and would be horrified to do less for our children than was done for us. We have seen our peers delay major life milestones like home ownership and work in soul-destroying jobs to get out from under their college debt and it’s not something we want for our kids.
Also the coffee in a thermos point is laughable at this point— if you had a $10/day Starbucks habit and you gave it up when your kid was born, you still wouldn’t have enough money to send your three kids to college— you wouldn’t have enough money to send *one* kid to college— so it’s inaccurate to act like a little frugality will keep your kids out of debt.
DP. That’s what you did. Good for you. Not everyone does this. My kids are elementary school age and while I want to help them with college, I’m not giving them a full ride. I want them to earn it and learn the value of hard work. Not get handed something to them. Not everyone is like you but that doesn’t mean they’re “dating themselves”, whatever that means.
Anonymous wrote:I think if you have a good job and don't have a history of unemployment, a relatively high up title or a high paying field, if you have a good education and a decent degree, I'd conclude on my own that you make the $$$ grade. (As do I).
You value his job title. Why?
Assistant = $50k
Manager, director, etc etc
VP likely $150k and up
I’m a VP and appreciate someone heading that way.
That said an HVAC guy who maintains a 9 to 5 Would be fine too.
Hard work equals my respect.
There are plenty of careers where non managerial roles still bring in 400k+, especially in tech.
Could you provide such professions?
Software dev at a large tech company.
This. Plus network engineers, cybersecurity specialists/principles can make 300-400k easily.
Anonymous wrote:It wholly depends on the life you are trying to lead, and the life your partner is trying to lead, and synchronizing those goals.
If you want your wife to stay home for the first year, the first five years OR if you want your wife to have an interesting and well paid job and have a good nanny, I put the floor at about $250,000 in this area.
If you both want to work and you have a good daycare option maybe $150,000/each
Some adjustments for where you want to live, how much vacation you want to take, whether you want to send kids to
Private school or whether you will pay for college all factor in, but HHI for this area, $250,000+
Riiight, you both need to make $150k to swing decent daycare.
Can you imagine the society we'd live in if everyone thought like this before having kids? We'd go extinct.
Firstly I didn’t say it was what it would cost for daycare, I said it was the cost of both people wanted to WOTH, so no nanny cost or SAHP childcare savings.
Sure let’s imagine a society where people being children into the world planning to pay for their college? To not burden them with the costs of their parents in retirement? That’s really what makes you worry for the figure of society?
DP. I'm in my 50s, been married 25+ years and our HHI has never been more than $200K/year. There was a 2 year period my DH was unemployed/underemployed and our HHI dropped to about $120K. Yet, we own our home, sent our kids to daycare, have over $100K in college savings for our kids and over $1M in retirement savings. We've had to pick/choose where our money goes. When we take vacations, we usually visit family. We drive 10+ year old cars and never buy them new. We take our coffee in thermoses to work and pack lunches. We rarely eat out. I'm sure you're life looks very different and mine is not appealing to you. That's fine. But, you've got a very unrealistic view of what level of income is needed for a good life in this area.
You’re dating yourself. $100k in college savings for more than one kid? So you’re paying…one year each if they go to private school? Two if they go to state?
PP you're responding to. I don't know what you mean by 'dating myself'. I already said I'm in my 50s. For 3 kids, we have over $100K total. We don't expect to be able to pay for 4 years of college for our kids but to help them as we can. My oldest is going to NoVa and is planning to transfer to Virginia Tech or UVA through Virginia's guaranteed admissions program. So far, we've not had to tap into my oldest kid's 529 account because he's living at home and we can afford community college tuition/books/fees. DS also works part time as do our other 2 kids.
Our kids understand what it costs to go to college and what DH and I can contribute. We help them determine what path they want to take. My middle child is in 11th grade and starting to narrow down her college choices. She's already taking college classes through dual enrollment/jump start and will likely take summer classes at NoVa. Her debt load will likely be higher than my oldest but she's also working on scholarships. It's unlikely she'll graduate with large amounts of debt because she's as pragmatic as DH and I are.
When looking for a life partner, I was not looking for one that could fully fund our kids' college expenses. I prioritized some who was on the same financial page that I was - in addition to being a good partner. We opened a 529 for each kid the month they were born and paid into each account $50/month. Not much but it's added up.
I mean you’re dating yourself: your kids are in college *now* and you’re not paying for most of it. OP’s hypothetical children with a hypothetical wife would be starting school in 2042, when in-state tuition for UVA is projected to be $40k/year. It’s also a false distinction to say you prioritized “being on the same page” over “fully funding college” because plenty of people are on the same page— about fully funding college and not saddling their children with debt. That’s part of sharing values. In my case both me and my husband graduated with our Master’s degrees debt free and would be horrified to do less for our children than was done for us. We have seen our peers delay major life milestones like home ownership and work in soul-destroying jobs to get out from under their college debt and it’s not something we want for our kids.
Also the coffee in a thermos point is laughable at this point— if you had a $10/day Starbucks habit and you gave it up when your kid was born, you still wouldn’t have enough money to send your three kids to college— you wouldn’t have enough money to send *one* kid to college— so it’s inaccurate to act like a little frugality will keep your kids out of debt.
DP. That’s what you did. Good for you. Not everyone does this. My kids are elementary school age and while I want to help them with college, I’m not giving them a full ride. I want them to earn it and learn the value of hard work. Not get handed something to them. Not everyone is like you but that doesn’t mean they’re “dating themselves”, whatever that means.
The point is what makes a man marriageable— if he wants to marry someone who expects to send their kids to college, it’s a higher figure.
I disagree that being saddled with college debt makes kids “learn the value of hard work” but if that’s how you see it, and you’re married to someone who agrees, then that works for you.
Anonymous wrote:I married my husband when he was making 80k and I 50k. We were deeply in love, with no family money on either side. We got married in 2014. It has now been 8 years since we married. We do not own a home. We do not have children. We almost got a divorce 2 years ago due to stress of not having enough to build a family life in NOVA.
I am stressed out and regretful about my choice most days. Yes, he was hot and nice, but that did not give us an income to build a suitable family life. I watched with envy as each of my friends married men making 200k, 400k and immediately were able to buy homes, have babies, build families and a family life.
I never cared about money. I thought it was silly and materialistic. Because after all, its true love and the insides that matter.
As a bitter, broke, childless mid thirties woman, I regret not caring about my prospective husband's salary.
If I were to do it again I would not date anyone who made less than 300k.
As a 26 year old woman... i appreciate your honesty.
Anonymous wrote:I married my husband when he was making 80k and I 50k. We were deeply in love, with no family money on either side. We got married in 2014. It has now been 8 years since we married. We do not own a home. We do not have children. We almost got a divorce 2 years ago due to stress of not having enough to build a family life in NOVA.
I am stressed out and regretful about my choice most days. Yes, he was hot and nice, but that did not give us an income to build a suitable family life. I watched with envy as each of my friends married men making 200k, 400k and immediately were able to buy homes, have babies, build families and a family life.
I never cared about money. I thought it was silly and materialistic. Because after all, its true love and the insides that matter.
As a bitter, broke, childless mid thirties woman, I regret not caring about my prospective husband's salary.
If I were to do it again I would not date anyone who made less than 300k.
But do you even make half as much? Why do you expect someone to do what you cannot?
I can't stand this comment. There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting a man that makes way more.
After all, its a man's world. Men make more money. Thats the way the world works.
Anonymous wrote:I married my husband when he was making 80k and I 50k. We were deeply in love, with no family money on either side. We got married in 2014. It has now been 8 years since we married. We do not own a home. We do not have children. We almost got a divorce 2 years ago due to stress of not having enough to build a family life in NOVA.
I am stressed out and regretful about my choice most days. Yes, he was hot and nice, but that did not give us an income to build a suitable family life. I watched with envy as each of my friends married men making 200k, 400k and immediately were able to buy homes, have babies, build families and a family life.
I never cared about money. I thought it was silly and materialistic. Because after all, its true love and the insides that matter.
As a bitter, broke, childless mid thirties woman, I regret not caring about my prospective husband's salary.
If I were to do it again I would not date anyone who made less than 300k.
But do you even make half as much? Why do you expect someone to do what you cannot?
I can't stand this comment. There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting a man that makes way more.
After all, its a man's world. Men make more money. Thats the way the world works.
It’s the 21st century. The way the world works is women have the opportunity to make their own damn money.
Anonymous wrote:I married my husband when he was making 80k and I 50k. We were deeply in love, with no family money on either side. We got married in 2014. It has now been 8 years since we married. We do not own a home. We do not have children. We almost got a divorce 2 years ago due to stress of not having enough to build a family life in NOVA.
I am stressed out and regretful about my choice most days. Yes, he was hot and nice, but that did not give us an income to build a suitable family life. I watched with envy as each of my friends married men making 200k, 400k and immediately were able to buy homes, have babies, build families and a family life.
I never cared about money. I thought it was silly and materialistic. Because after all, its true love and the insides that matter.
As a bitter, broke, childless mid thirties woman, I regret not caring about my prospective husband's salary.
If I were to do it again I would not date anyone who made less than 300k.
But do you even make half as much? Why do you expect someone to do what you cannot?
I can't stand this comment. There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting a man that makes way more.
After all, its a man's world. Men make more money. Thats the way the world works.
It’s the 21st century. The way the world works is women have the opportunity to make their own damn money.
They do. And when men start expecting to get pregnant and give birth I’ll listen to this nonsense about not “expecting your partner to do what you cannot”
Anonymous wrote:I married my husband when he was making 80k and I 50k. We were deeply in love, with no family money on either side. We got married in 2014. It has now been 8 years since we married. We do not own a home. We do not have children. We almost got a divorce 2 years ago due to stress of not having enough to build a family life in NOVA.
I am stressed out and regretful about my choice most days. Yes, he was hot and nice, but that did not give us an income to build a suitable family life. I watched with envy as each of my friends married men making 200k, 400k and immediately were able to buy homes, have babies, build families and a family life.
I never cared about money. I thought it was silly and materialistic. Because after all, its true love and the insides that matter.
As a bitter, broke, childless mid thirties woman, I regret not caring about my prospective husband's salary.
If I were to do it again I would not date anyone who made less than 300k.
As a 26 year old woman... i appreciate your honesty.
Thank you, I wish someone had told me. I was a naive hopelessly romantic who thought love was enough.
Interestingly my friends who were encouraging me to marry him, themselves only dated and married rich guys. They look at me with pity now with their SFHs and babies while I still live in an apartment and am childless.
Anonymous wrote:I married my husband when he was making 80k and I 50k. We were deeply in love, with no family money on either side. We got married in 2014. It has now been 8 years since we married. We do not own a home. We do not have children. We almost got a divorce 2 years ago due to stress of not having enough to build a family life in NOVA.
I am stressed out and regretful about my choice most days. Yes, he was hot and nice, but that did not give us an income to build a suitable family life. I watched with envy as each of my friends married men making 200k, 400k and immediately were able to buy homes, have babies, build families and a family life.
I never cared about money. I thought it was silly and materialistic. Because after all, its true love and the insides that matter.
As a bitter, broke, childless mid thirties woman, I regret not caring about my prospective husband's salary.
If I were to do it again I would not date anyone who made less than 300k.
But do you even make half as much? Why do you expect someone to do what you cannot?
+1
It’s a mans world. Due to patriarchy and biology, most women cannot expect to make as much as men. So we should he targeting the richest men we can when looking for marriage. He brings the money, I bring the babies. Equal partnership.
I can't stand this comment. There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting a man that makes way more.
After all, its a man's world. Men make more money. Thats the way the world works.
It’s the 21st century. The way the world works is women have the opportunity to make their own damn money.
They do. And when men start expecting to get pregnant and give birth I’ll listen to this nonsense about not “expecting your partner to do what you cannot”
Anonymous wrote:I married my husband when he was making 80k and I 50k. We were deeply in love, with no family money on either side. We got married in 2014. It has now been 8 years since we married. We do not own a home. We do not have children. We almost got a divorce 2 years ago due to stress of not having enough to build a family life in NOVA.
I am stressed out and regretful about my choice most days. Yes, he was hot and nice, but that did not give us an income to build a suitable family life. I watched with envy as each of my friends married men making 200k, 400k and immediately were able to buy homes, have babies, build families and a family life.
I never cared about money. I thought it was silly and materialistic. Because after all, its true love and the insides that matter.
As a bitter, broke, childless mid thirties woman, I regret not caring about my prospective husband's salary.
If I were to do it again I would not date anyone who made less than 300k.
As a 26 year old woman... i appreciate your honesty.
If you guys can move, you should.
Honestly, having kids is overrated. I love my kids! And it is so difficult, expensive, thankless, scary... I should have just had dogs. You can't really mess up a dog.
Anonymous wrote:It wholly depends on the life you are trying to lead, and the life your partner is trying to lead, and synchronizing those goals.
If you want your wife to stay home for the first year, the first five years OR if you want your wife to have an interesting and well paid job and have a good nanny, I put the floor at about $250,000 in this area.
If you both want to work and you have a good daycare option maybe $150,000/each
Some adjustments for where you want to live, how much vacation you want to take, whether you want to send kids to
Private school or whether you will pay for college all factor in, but HHI for this area, $250,000+
Riiight, you both need to make $150k to swing decent daycare.
Can you imagine the society we'd live in if everyone thought like this before having kids? We'd go extinct.
Firstly I didn’t say it was what it would cost for daycare, I said it was the cost of both people wanted to WOTH, so no nanny cost or SAHP childcare savings.
Sure let’s imagine a society where people being children into the world planning to pay for their college? To not burden them with the costs of their parents in retirement? That’s really what makes you worry for the figure of society?
DP. I'm in my 50s, been married 25+ years and our HHI has never been more than $200K/year. There was a 2 year period my DH was unemployed/underemployed and our HHI dropped to about $120K. Yet, we own our home, sent our kids to daycare, have over $100K in college savings for our kids and over $1M in retirement savings. We've had to pick/choose where our money goes. When we take vacations, we usually visit family. We drive 10+ year old cars and never buy them new. We take our coffee in thermoses to work and pack lunches. We rarely eat out. I'm sure you're life looks very different and mine is not appealing to you. That's fine. But, you've got a very unrealistic view of what level of income is needed for a good life in this area.
You’re dating yourself. $100k in college savings for more than one kid? So you’re paying…one year each if they go to private school? Two if they go to state?
PP you're responding to. I don't know what you mean by 'dating myself'. I already said I'm in my 50s. For 3 kids, we have over $100K total. We don't expect to be able to pay for 4 years of college for our kids but to help them as we can. My oldest is going to NoVa and is planning to transfer to Virginia Tech or UVA through Virginia's guaranteed admissions program. So far, we've not had to tap into my oldest kid's 529 account because he's living at home and we can afford community college tuition/books/fees. DS also works part time as do our other 2 kids.
Our kids understand what it costs to go to college and what DH and I can contribute. We help them determine what path they want to take. My middle child is in 11th grade and starting to narrow down her college choices. She's already taking college classes through dual enrollment/jump start and will likely take summer classes at NoVa. Her debt load will likely be higher than my oldest but she's also working on scholarships. It's unlikely she'll graduate with large amounts of debt because she's as pragmatic as DH and I are.
When looking for a life partner, I was not looking for one that could fully fund our kids' college expenses. I prioritized some who was on the same financial page that I was - in addition to being a good partner. We opened a 529 for each kid the month they were born and paid into each account $50/month. Not much but it's added up.
I mean you’re dating yourself: your kids are in college *now* and you’re not paying for most of it. OP’s hypothetical children with a hypothetical wife would be starting school in 2042, when in-state tuition for UVA is projected to be $40k/year. It’s also a false distinction to say you prioritized “being on the same page” over “fully funding college” because plenty of people are on the same page— about fully funding college and not saddling their children with debt. That’s part of sharing values. In my case both me and my husband graduated with our Master’s degrees debt free and would be horrified to do less for our children than was done for us. We have seen our peers delay major life milestones like home ownership and work in soul-destroying jobs to get out from under their college debt and it’s not something we want for our kids.
Also the coffee in a thermos point is laughable at this point— if you had a $10/day Starbucks habit and you gave it up when your kid was born, you still wouldn’t have enough money to send your three kids to college— you wouldn’t have enough money to send *one* kid to college— so it’s inaccurate to act like a little frugality will keep your kids out of debt.
I going to guess that you see no point in having government pay for schooling beyond k-12. And are against tuition forgiveness programs because your boot straps are the BEST and everyone should pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
If not, you seem to enjoy castigating those who may be less fortunate than you. If you are horrified by people not paying for college, you should really visit a domestic violence shelter and learn what horror can really be.
I didn’t say we pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps— that’s our parents made sure we didn’t graduate with college debt. I think it’s legitimate to be horrified to say to your children “yes we had all of this handed to us but you, you can start life $250,000+ in debt just to reach where we got for free” and then lecture people about bringing coffee in a thermos. That’s “tell me your generation without actually saying the word”.
How do you know the PP's parents helped monetarily?
There are so many many levels more horrific than not saving for kids college, you have no clue.
I hope your life continues in a manner where you can view not saving to pay for a private college as "horrific." Clearly, you do not work with a cross section of the population.
PP is in her 50s, if you look at the inflation adjustments for college tuition over time, even if she wholly paid her own way, giving her kids the same start she was given means paying for most of their education— not 1/3 each max. I also didn’t say private school— even if she’s talking about in-state tuition her numbers don’t work. Ironically this is why I *do* favor loan forgiveness or federal subsidy but our government is run by people in PPs age bracket.
What is horrific — and yes I’ll stand by that, more than one thing in life can horrify me— is starting your kids off miles behind where you were, then patting yourself on the back on the internet for saving money on coffee, as though that makes any meaningful difference.
This is getting afield from the OPs question, but comes back to the point that you need to marry someone who shares your values about money, and if you marry someone who values the higher education of their children, you need a higher HHI
I'm the PP in her 50s. You are so dramatic and, clearly, live in a bubble. I wish the government were run by people like me! My family and I all voted for Bernie! My family of origin has always valued education - which isn't always obtained in school. We are also pragmatic. You, clearly, haven't done long term financial planning with limited means. Too bad because your limited life experience leaves you blind to how 90% of the country lives. The solution for that is not to marry into money. The solution (absent government reform) is to plan on how to make it work - like economizing where you can and compound interest. My kids, like me and DH, will likely have some debt when they leave college but not a lot. It's a small price for them to pay for me prioritizing a good partner and father over a high earner. I'm proud of what DH and I have been able to save on less (sometimes really less) than $200K/year.
Since we're so far off the rails, I'm not going to engage further - other than to point out that NoVA is a great, affordable option to obtain a college degree. Two years of college for about $15K and guaranteed admission to a huge number of college/universities, including UVA and William & Mary. I have no doubt that in 20 years, even without gov't reform, there will continue to be options like that. A college degree isn't worth $240K.
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